RE: FCC for PCs

2001-02-03 Thread Gary McInturff 

I think you might still be able to make a cost argument, but it gets
much more difficult now for the reason you state, but still most folks are
buying much cheaper systems for home usage. The other item to look at when
making the case for class A is the applications that you are selling with
this thing. If you gut the O/S and have some application that doesn't lend
its self to home users you could be okay. I seem to remember an automatic
meter reading system that was allowed class A, even though used on a mobile
basis in residential neighbor hoods, and I used to work for some folks that
built automating banking equipment that was, for all practical purposes IBM
compatible (the old standard for whether or not it was a computer - glad to
see that has changed). It could have been used for a personal computer as it
ran under MSDOS (okay so I'm old) However, we marketed only in industry
rags, and unless you were a bank or savings company then the loaded
applications were of no interest, and back then the cost was fairly
prohibitive. I even bothered to get a confirmation from the feds before we
started and they had no problems with the classification.
Other than price, I'm not sure that anything has really changed.
But if the PC started out as class B, and you add a card to it, I
don't think your task or cost is all that great in maintaining the class B
performance, and you avoid the hassle of arguing the point. Unless you own
your own lab, then the testing process, cost and time frame are all going to
be the same between class A and B anyway.
The only disadvantage is that most of us have discovered that
because a computer was once class B doesn't mean it stays that way, most
often simply because shipping has loosened up stuff. However, even those
computers that I have seen that did fail class B still met Class A.
Just an opinion
Gary


-Original Message-
From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 5:37 AM
To: p...@tennyson.com.au
Cc: wo...@sensormatic.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: FCC for PCs



I recall from my days of managing EMC that the FCC does not allow a
manufacturer to "declare" if an ITE product is Class A or B.  They look
at the price, and where the product is advertised and sold as well. If
the product is within the price range consumers are willing to pay,
advertised in consumer publications, and sold through routine consumer
outlets, then it is Class B.

Note that consumers are far more familiar with PCs now, and many are
willing to pay up to $3K or more for a home PC.

George




prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 02/01/2001 07:04:50 PM

Please respond to prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com

To:   woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com,
  emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com
cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark)
Subject:  RE: FCC for PCs




You are right, they should be Class B unless they excusively specify that
the PC is not for home use.
You will need them to be Class B to start with and when you load them with
custom option cards there is a high chance that the EMI characteristics will
worsen and you'll at least meet Class A.
Praveen


-Original Message-
From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2001 2:08 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: FCC for PCs



We are purchasing a PC loaded with custom option cards from a supplier that
obtains the PC from a third party. The end unit as sold to us and resold by
us is not intended for home use. However, the base PC initially sold by the
third party is sized and priced such that it could potentially be used in
the home. The computer does not display the FCC mark, but is marked
according to Class A requirements.

I am concerned that the computer may not be in compliance with FCC marking
requirements. What are the current rules that would apply in this case?

Richard Woods

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Re: FCC for PCs

2001-02-02 Thread Andrew Carson 


To throw my past experience into the water and hopefully not make it too muddy.
We have tried the cost, intended market place, intended function etc. , argument
many times with our local test house. And the general reply comes back the same.

Any PC, portable or desktop, should meet Class B. Cost does not seam to wash
that much with the FCC, nor intended function.

Stick a bunch of specialist test and measurement cards into a desktop PC.
Example a network analyzer, not many people have a home WAN, then you can
justify it for Light Industrial / Office Environment and the whole system, Cards
+ PC, need only meet class A.

Now put the same specialist cards into a portable PC and when the cards are
running and all their associated test leads are connected, Class A. But with the
test leads disconnected and the cards idle, Class B. For example, the field
engineer is back home running over the days data and the unit is now running in
a residential environment.

Who here has not taken their woke home on occasion.

geor...@lexmark.com wrote:

> I recall from my days of managing EMC that the FCC does not allow a
> manufacturer to "declare" if an ITE product is Class A or B.  They look
> at the price, and where the product is advertised and sold as well. If
> the product is within the price range consumers are willing to pay,
> advertised in consumer publications, and sold through routine consumer
> outlets, then it is Class B.
>
> Note that consumers are far more familiar with PCs now, and many are
> willing to pay up to $3K or more for a home PC.
>
> George
>
> prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 02/01/2001 07:04:50 PM
>
> Please respond to prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com
>
> To:   woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com,
>   emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com
> cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark)
> Subject:  RE: FCC for PCs
>
> You are right, they should be Class B unless they excusively specify that
> the PC is not for home use.
> You will need them to be Class B to start with and when you load them with
> custom option cards there is a high chance that the EMI characteristics will
> worsen and you'll at least meet Class A.
> Praveen
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
> Sent: Friday, 2 February 2001 2:08 AM
> To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: FCC for PCs
>
> We are purchasing a PC loaded with custom option cards from a supplier that
> obtains the PC from a third party. The end unit as sold to us and resold by
> us is not intended for home use. However, the base PC initially sold by the
> third party is sized and priced such that it could potentially be used in
> the home. The computer does not display the FCC mark, but is marked
> according to Class A requirements.
>
> I am concerned that the computer may not be in compliance with FCC marking
> requirements. What are the current rules that would apply in this case?
>
> Richard Woods
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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--

Andrew Carson - Product Safety Engineer
Xyratex Engineering Laboratory
Tele 023 92496855 Fax

RE: FCC for PCs

2001-02-02 Thread WOODS 

Check page 8 for the FCC's A/B criteria in 1996. This may or may not be
their current thinking.

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/
oet62rev.pdf
 

Richard Woods


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Re: FCC for PCs

2001-02-02 Thread Dan Kwok 

Points well made. With the half-life of PCs the way they are, there is also
increased likelihood they would get sold and re-sold and subsequently end up
in a home. Companies often sell off their old PCs at auctions. I just
received an offer to purchase Pentium 2 PCs from a local high tech firm for
$400 each.

Dan Kwok




- Original Message -
From: 
To: 
Cc: ; 
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 5:37 AM
Subject: RE: FCC for PCs


>
> I recall from my days of managing EMC that the FCC does not allow a
> manufacturer to "declare" if an ITE product is Class A or B.  They look
> at the price, and where the product is advertised and sold as well. If
> the product is within the price range consumers are willing to pay,
> advertised in consumer publications, and sold through routine consumer
> outlets, then it is Class B.
>
> Note that consumers are far more familiar with PCs now, and many are
> willing to pay up to $3K or more for a home PC.
>
> George
>



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RE: FCC for PCs

2001-02-02 Thread georgea 

I recall from my days of managing EMC that the FCC does not allow a
manufacturer to "declare" if an ITE product is Class A or B.  They look
at the price, and where the product is advertised and sold as well. If
the product is within the price range consumers are willing to pay,
advertised in consumer publications, and sold through routine consumer
outlets, then it is Class B.

Note that consumers are far more familiar with PCs now, and many are
willing to pay up to $3K or more for a home PC.

George




prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 02/01/2001 07:04:50 PM

Please respond to prao%tennyson.com...@interlock.lexmark.com

To:   woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com,
  emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com
cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark)
Subject:  RE: FCC for PCs




You are right, they should be Class B unless they excusively specify that
the PC is not for home use.
You will need them to be Class B to start with and when you load them with
custom option cards there is a high chance that the EMI characteristics will
worsen and you'll at least meet Class A.
Praveen


-Original Message-
From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2001 2:08 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: FCC for PCs



We are purchasing a PC loaded with custom option cards from a supplier that
obtains the PC from a third party. The end unit as sold to us and resold by
us is not intended for home use. However, the base PC initially sold by the
third party is sized and priced such that it could potentially be used in
the home. The computer does not display the FCC mark, but is marked
according to Class A requirements.

I am concerned that the computer may not be in compliance with FCC marking
requirements. What are the current rules that would apply in this case?

Richard Woods

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 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org


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RE: FCC for PCs

2001-02-02 Thread Praveen Rao 

You are right, they should be Class B unless they excusively specify that
the PC is not for home use. 
You will need them to be Class B to start with and when you load them with
custom option cards there is a high chance that the EMI characteristics will
worsen and you'll at least meet Class A.
Praveen


-Original Message-
From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2001 2:08 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: FCC for PCs



We are purchasing a PC loaded with custom option cards from a supplier that
obtains the PC from a third party. The end unit as sold to us and resold by
us is not intended for home use. However, the base PC initially sold by the
third party is sized and priced such that it could potentially be used in
the home. The computer does not display the FCC mark, but is marked
according to Class A requirements.

I am concerned that the computer may not be in compliance with FCC marking
requirements. What are the current rules that would apply in this case?

Richard Woods

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 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org


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Re: FCC for PCs

2001-02-01 Thread Dan Kwok 

Richard,

Your concern is quite legitimate. A PC is a device that can be easily
brought into a residential home environment by anyone. Based on that, I
would think it should have been tested to Class B limits. 

Dan Kwok


wo...@sensormatic.com wrote:
> 
> We are purchasing a PC loaded with custom option cards from a supplier that
> obtains the PC from a third party. The end unit as sold to us and resold by
> us is not intended for home use. However, the base PC initially sold by the
> third party is sized and priced such that it could potentially be used in
> the home. The computer does not display the FCC mark, but is marked
> according to Class A requirements.
> 
> I am concerned that the computer may not be in compliance with FCC marking
> requirements. What are the current rules that would apply in this case?
> 
> Richard Woods
> 

-- 

Daniel Kwok, P.Eng.
Principal EMC Engineer 
Intetron Consulting, Inc.  
Vancouver, Canada
Phone (604) 432-9874
Email dk...@intetron.com
Web http://www.intetron.com";

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