RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation
John Dave, Thank you for your replies. I was hoping someone else had independently found these issues with the document. My only other choices were, I am somehow going senile or worse, insane. I am concerned becuase this lack of attention to detail on the part of the committee, brings the rest of the document into question. I have a fair background in high voltage technology and in addition have carefully checked into IEC 60664 for help. Suffice it to say, there are other things in the IEC 61010-1 that bother me when it comes to safety spacings requirements. Is there anyone in this discussion group who was part of the committee and can answer some of these concerns? Regards, -doug Douglas E. Powell Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80525 USA From: John Allen [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:46 AM To: 'drcuthb...@micron.com'; POWELL, DOUG Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Doug, Dave This is not the first time the formulae and examples in 6.7 have been called into question. One of my customers raised a query about a year ago, and I forwarded the query to the Chairman of the IEC TC for 61010, as well as the (BSI) Secretary thereof, as attached - I received an acknowlegement from Mr Chapman but I never received an answer! There might well be misprints in this case as I found quite a few elsewhere on an earlier occasion, as per a previous message to Mr Chapman, also attached! Therefore I think you need to view the text of this edition of 61010-1 with the proverbial pinch of salt :- if it doesnt look right then it probably isn't!! Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: 04 November 2003 16:46 To: doug.pow...@aei.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Doug, I find it confusing. Good thing there are examples. example b) gives the correct answer. example a) does not look correct. Reasoning: 1) F is solved incorrectly. It should be 0.297 2) The remainder looks correct. I get 20.5 mm (without interpolation) With interpolation I get 18.4 mm. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of POWELL, DOUG Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Has anyone tried to work through the two examples given in this section? In trying to understand how to use the CLEARANCE = D1 + F(D2-D1) equation, I was hoping to check my work with the examples that were given. Either I'm missing something or these examples have some really fundamental errors. In my application, I am attempting to calculate the basic clearance for a working voltage of 1500 VDC with transients that peak to 1800V and ride on the VDC. The final peak voltage is 300 Volts higher than the steady-state 1500VDC, which apparently meets the 6.7.3.1 b) 2) criteria. Please help! -doug end Douglas E. Powell Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80525 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com * Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2003. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved. The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated in confidence. No liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss or damage suffered as a result of accessing this message or any attachments. _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com
RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Doug, Dave This is not the first time the formulae and examples in 6.7 have been called into question. One of my customers raised a query about a year ago, and I forwarded the query to the Chairman of the IEC TC for 61010, as well as the (BSI) Secretary thereof, as attached - I received an acknowlegement from Mr Chapman but I never received an answer! There might well be misprints in this case as I found quite a few elsewhere on an earlier occasion, as per a previous message to Mr Chapman, also attached! Therefore I think you need to view the text of this edition of 61010-1 with the proverbial pinch of salt :- if it doesnt look right then it probably isn't!! Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: 04 November 2003 16:46 To: doug.pow...@aei.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Doug, I find it confusing. Good thing there are examples. example b) gives the correct answer. example a) does not look correct. Reasoning: 1) F is solved incorrectly. It should be 0.297 2) The remainder looks correct. I get 20.5 mm (without interpolation) With interpolation I get 18.4 mm. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of POWELL, DOUG Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Has anyone tried to work through the two examples given in this section? In trying to understand how to use the CLEARANCE = D1 + F(D2-D1) equation, I was hoping to check my work with the examples that were given. Either I'm missing something or these examples have some really fundamental errors. In my application, I am attempting to calculate the basic clearance for a working voltage of 1500 VDC with transients that peak to 1800V and ride on the VDC. The final peak voltage is 300 Volts higher than the steady-state 1500VDC, which apparently meets the 6.7.3.1 b) 2) criteria. Please help! -doug end Douglas E. Powell Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80525 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com * Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2003. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved. The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated in confidence. No liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss or damage suffered as a result of accessing this message or any attachments. _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com ---BeginMessage--- This attachment, originally named Message Text, was removed because it is zero length. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- For the attention of the following Officers of IEC TC66 Chairman: Mr. Cecil CHAPMAN Grant Instruments (Cambridge) Ltd. Mill Barn Bassingbourn, SG8 5PP, UK Secretary: Mr. N.A.R. BRADFIELD British Electrotechnical Committee Electrical Department - Floor 11-6 British Standards Institution 389 Chiswick High Road London W4 4AL, UK Dear Sirs It has been suggested that we draw to your attention the following technical and/or printing errors which appear in copies of BS EN 61010-1:2001 - and thus presumably in EN 61010-1:2001 and IEC 61010-1:2001 1) Clause 6.8.4 Voltage tests Table 9 Test voltages for BASIC INSULATION (Page 52). We are reasonably sure that there is a misprint in Column 1 Clearance of Table 9 , as follows: The line entry between 1.0 and 2.0 is 1.4 but it should be 1.5 (mm). We believe that this is obvious from Table 8 Clearance for measurement categories II, III and IV where 1.5 (mm) is mentioned in numerous places but 1.4 is not mentioned at all. Apart from anything else, 1.5mm is the category II minimum value for nominal line voltages of 150V=300V - which
RE: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation
Doug, I find it confusing. Good thing there are examples. example b) gives the correct answer. example a) does not look correct. Reasoning: 1) F is solved incorrectly. It should be 0.297 2) The remainder looks correct. I get 20.5 mm (without interpolation) With interpolation I get 18.4 mm. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of POWELL, DOUG Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: IEC 61010-1:2001 section 6.7.3.2 Clearance Calculation Has anyone tried to work through the two examples given in this section? In trying to understand how to use the CLEARANCE = D1 + F(D2-D1) equation, I was hoping to check my work with the examples that were given. Either I'm missing something or these examples have some really fundamental errors. In my application, I am attempting to calculate the basic clearance for a working voltage of 1500 VDC with transients that peak to 1800V and ride on the VDC. The final peak voltage is 300 Volts higher than the steady-state 1500VDC, which apparently meets the 6.7.3.1 b) 2) criteria. Please help! -doug end Douglas E. Powell Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80525 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
