Re: [PSES] Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed
The particular design manual that would apply is typically specified on the CSA C of C and/or in the respective construction file. The DM is analogous to a super-duper Section Gen + FUS + FIIS of an UL file. If CSA issued the cert without that file - ask the assessment engr to send the respective DM if you are not in the category cert program. Do not think that CSA writes a DM for all safety standards. Brian -Original Message- From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 6:22 PM To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Thanks for your help, Brian. Unfortunately my two equipment standards are not very detailed, this product has no UL file yet, and my(out of date)copy of CSA 0.4 doesn't add much. Time to buy more standards! Could you explain the "CSA design manual" to me? I have never heard of a design manual before, and didn't see it on the CSA site. Is it available only for specific standards? Best Regards, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.com bceres...@delta-q.com -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:31 PM To: Brian Ceresney; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Do not know why bonding materials/construction would not be in the scoped safety standard. My typical refs for reliable bonding construction requirements/suggestions are: 1. scoped safety standard for the equipment and/or end-use installation. 2. CSA design manual for the scoped standard(s). 3. Section General and/or Inspection Procedures of the affected UL file. 4. CSA No. 0.4 5. NEC article 250 (mostly wiring, but other hardware discussed) There has to be 10E3 references for this stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian Ceresney Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:59 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Dear Regulatory Experts, I'm searching for a standard or guideline which will provide detailed information about the internal grounding and bonding of products, and I've had limited luck in finding anything suiting my purpose. Reviewing a few CSA and UL standards hasn't been helpful. Specifically, I am interested in Class I plug and cord connected products, which require the internal grounding wire to be secured to a metal, non-current carrying enclosure. I need to know what kinds of screw/nut/washer combinations are acceptable, mainly from a North American viewpoint, but not excluding Europe.(As usual, I'm working with small industrial-type battery chargers drawing less than 12A at 120V, 6A at 240V). I'm particularly interested in requirements/acceptability of thread-cutting or -forming screws, with or without locking washers. I'm wondering about their securement performance over time. The standards I've reviewed so far seem to be very non-specific about requirements, while specifying some testing. Are there any documents out there that are more detailed? Thanks in Advance, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.com bceres...@delta-q.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed
Thanks for your help, Brian. Unfortunately my two equipment standards are not very detailed, this product has no UL file yet, and my(out of date)copy of CSA 0.4 doesn't add much. Time to buy more standards! Could you explain the "CSA design manual" to me? I have never heard of a design manual before, and didn't see it on the CSA site. Is it available only for specific standards? Best Regards, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.com bceres...@delta-q.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:31 PM To: Brian Ceresney; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Do not know why bonding materials/construction would not be in the scoped safety standard. My typical refs for reliable bonding construction requirements/suggestions are: 1. scoped safety standard for the equipment and/or end-use installation. 2. CSA design manual for the scoped standard(s). 3. Section General and/or Inspection Procedures of the affected UL file. 4. CSA No. 0.4 5. NEC article 250 (mostly wiring, but other hardware discussed) There has to be 10E3 references for this stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian Ceresney Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:59 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Dear Regulatory Experts, I'm searching for a standard or guideline which will provide detailed information about the internal grounding and bonding of products, and I've had limited luck in finding anything suiting my purpose. Reviewing a few CSA and UL standards hasn't been helpful. Specifically, I am interested in Class I plug and cord connected products, which require the internal grounding wire to be secured to a metal, non-current carrying enclosure. I need to know what kinds of screw/nut/washer combinations are acceptable, mainly from a North American viewpoint, but not excluding Europe.(As usual, I'm working with small industrial-type battery chargers drawing less than 12A at 120V, 6A at 240V). I'm particularly interested in requirements/acceptability of thread-cutting or -forming screws, with or without locking washers. I'm wondering about their securement performance over time. The standards I've reviewed so far seem to be very non-specific about requirements, while specifying some testing. Are there any documents out there that are more detailed? Thanks in Advance, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.com bceres...@delta-q.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed
Do not know why bonding materials/construction would not be in the scoped safety standard. My typical refs for reliable bonding construction requirements/suggestions are: 1. scoped safety standard for the equipment and/or end-use installation. 2. CSA design manual for the scoped standard(s). 3. Section General and/or Inspection Procedures of the affected UL file. 4. CSA No. 0.4 5. NEC article 250 (mostly wiring, but other hardware discussed) There has to be 10E3 references for this stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian Ceresney Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:59 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed Dear Regulatory Experts, I'm searching for a standard or guideline which will provide detailed information about the internal grounding and bonding of products, and I've had limited luck in finding anything suiting my purpose. Reviewing a few CSA and UL standards hasn't been helpful. Specifically, I am interested in Class I plug and cord connected products, which require the internal grounding wire to be secured to a metal, non-current carrying enclosure. I need to know what kinds of screw/nut/washer combinations are acceptable, mainly from a North American viewpoint, but not excluding Europe.(As usual, I'm working with small industrial-type battery chargers drawing less than 12A at 120V, 6A at 240V). I'm particularly interested in requirements/acceptability of thread-cutting or -forming screws, with or without locking washers. I'm wondering about their securement performance over time. The standards I've reviewed so far seem to be very non-specific about requirements, while specifying some testing. Are there any documents out there that are more detailed? Thanks in Advance, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.com bceres...@delta-q.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
