RE: New Technology
I agree that solar power is limited on the earth's surface. The only way to get large amounts of energy from the sun is to go into outer space. The problem then is how to capture the energy and transport it to the surface? Solar panels can be placed in areas that are unfavorable for growing food, such as deserts. The commodities market is very fickle. The raise in corn prices will adjust in a few years as supply and demand is balanced out. I think the ethanol gold rush has come and gone anyway. Currently, corn futures in the US are high because of the wet spring has delayed planting. A bumper crop of winter wheat has driven the price of wheat futures way down. So farmers will plant more corn next year which will drive corn prices down. It all works out. I disagree with those who think ethanol is every bit as harmful to the environment as petroleum based fuels. The CO2 given off by bio-fuels came from the air to begin with and when it is burned the CO2 is simply returned to the air, so bio-fuels have no affect on the environment. However, the CO2 given off by burning fossil fuels are taken from the ground and adds to the CO2 already in the air and that is only a problem if you believe the .01% increase in CO2 in our atmosphere is going to destroy our planet. I think it is only going to make things grow better which will increase corn yields and drive prices down. How does this topic relate to our jobs other than we are engineers and scientists? I recently read a news story about a guy who claims he can burn seawater using RF and he believes this technology could be a future fuel source. The man is a ham radio operator with no science or engineering background, but after showing a video of his experiment he is getting millions of dollars in research grant money to continue work. I wish I could figure out how to get some of that money. This is a Fun topic. A nice distraction from my boring life in the EMC lab. Excuse me while I try to blow up a power supply with Surge. The Other Brian From: Tarver, Peter [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:56 PM To: Kunde, Brian; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: New Technology From: Brian Kunde Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:17 PM Keep in mind that all BIO-Fuels, corn, sugar cane, whatever, is just solar energy stored in solid form, in this case, carbohydrates which can be converted to alcohol or other hydrocarbons. Crops grow only for a few months out of the year, the rest of the time the land (solar energy hitting the land) goes to waste. The land use would be better served to install solar panels than crops where the sun's energy could be used year round. The problem with solar panels (other than their inefficiencies and expense) is how to store and transport the energy. And that they take up a significant surface area to produce significantly useful amounts of commercial energy. Some of that land would be taken out of agricultural use to support commercial solar energy production. Reports of food shortages due to crops being diverted into energy production tend to make claims of conversion of agricultural lands into solar energy production unfeasible. Nationally, WalMart has reported runs on rice, because of media driven concerns about shortages. Third world aid is also effected. All of these shortages cause food prices to rise above the rises they might otherwise see derived from crude oil speculation. Some recent reports also indicate that ethanol is every bit as harmful to the environment as petroleum based fuels. My direct report manager recently added in a relatively small, 14 kW solar panel array onto his pool house. This will pay for itself eventually, in the form of utility savings, and might last long enough to turn a small profit before its last gasp. This form of solar seems a more likely option for solar than removing land from agriculture. Ultimately, all forms of matter are energy storage mechanisms. Getting the energy out is always an inefficient process, but some cost less than others. Other than some new technology which hasn't been invested yet, I think the only solution is to go up (more solar power from the sun) or down (geothermal heat energy from the earth's core). We shouldn't place too much emphasis on any specific technology. We need a balanced portfolio. But we also need bureaucratic, regulatory and legislative barriers lifted to allow wider deployment of a broader range of technologies. Among the barriers are environmental regulations and special interest groups that protest every possible effort to resolve energy issues. Wind is an excellent source of energy, which is also a solar energy storage mechanism, if thought of in the broader sense, and doesn't require direct impingement of solar radiation to function. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use
Re: New Technology
In message 0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a60567a76...@mailserver.lecotc.com, dated Tue, 6 May 2008, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: I recently read a news story about a guy who claims he can burn seawater using RF You have a link to that? You can decompose water vapour with a strong enough electric field: it's a sort of gas-phase electrolysis. But how do you separate the hydrogen from the oxygen almost instantaneously, before they re-combine? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Murphy's Law has now been officially re-named The Certainty Principle John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: New Technology
From: John Woodgate Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:27 AM Scott B. Lacey writes: Many alternative energy solutions bring their own new problems. Using corn to make ethanol for fuel is causing food supply and price issues. So don't use corn: it's far from the best crop for the job; it just happened to be convenient for pilot studies. Brazil uses sugar cane, much better suited to the task. The price of sugar would escalate accordingly, but at least it's not a food crop that the world relies on for nutrition. Windmills are noisy, and expensive to build and maintain. Where it's windy, the noise doesn't matter. And no doubt building and maintenance costs will fall as experience is gained. In the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, some wind farms have been forced off the grid, due to 'endangered' or 'threatened' birds flying into their blades. You're right about the noise issue. Electric and hybrid vehicles have issues related to the batteries and controls. Firefighters and other emergency workers are concerned about safety in accidents. Probably largely due to aversion from anything new. There are far more hazardous things on the roads. Lithium metal plus fire plus water equals explosion hazard and requires special fire suppression chemicals. Group IA elements are fond of water. As reported in the local paper, firefighters will let a Li battery containing vehicle burn itself out, rather than try to put it out. I haven't read or heard anyone discuss the disposal issues for large Li batteries in electric vehicles. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New Technology
In message 5f5a140eb5cb094bb4d2c477c8c4ad99c83...@sjc1amfpew04.am.sanm.corp, dated Mon, 5 May 2008, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: In the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, some wind farms have been forced off the grid, due to 'endangered' or 'threatened' birds flying into their blades. You're right about the noise issue. The Danes seem to have solved the problem of birds. I don't know how, but they have LOTS of birds around where the wind farms are. Electric and hybrid vehicles have issues related to the batteries and controls. Firefighters and other emergency workers are concerned about safety in accidents. Probably largely due to aversion from anything new. There are far more hazardous things on the roads. Lithium metal plus fire plus water equals explosion hazard and requires special fire suppression chemicals. Anything dry that excludes oxygen would work, but not CO2: burning lithium decomposes it to finally produce lithium carbonate. Group IA elements are fond of water. As reported in the local paper, firefighters will let a Li battery containing vehicle burn itself out, rather than try to put it out. Probably the most sensible thing to do. If the lithium burns, there won't be anything left worth recovering. But that applies to a gas fire as well. I haven't read or heard anyone discuss the disposal issues for large Li batteries in electric vehicles. Recycle. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Murphy's Law has now been officially re-named The Certainty Principle John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: New Technology
Keep in mind that all BIO-Fuels, corn, sugar cane, whatever, is just solar energy stored in solid form, in this case, carbohydrates which can be converted to alcohol or other hydrocarbons. Crops grow only for a few months out of the year, the rest of the time the land (solar energy hitting the land) goes to waste. The land use would be better served to install solar panels than crops where the sun's energy could be used year round. The problem with solar panels (other than their inefficiencies and expense) is how to store and transport the energy. The energy you get from solar, whether bio-fuels or panels, are limited by the amount of sunlight that is present per acre, which is not a lot, comparatively speaking. So any solar energy method will only meet a small fraction of the world's energy needs. Other than some new technology which hasn't been invested yet, I think the only solution is to go up (more solar power from the sun) or down (geothermal heat energy from the earth's core). Hydrogen is not truly an energy source but an energy storage method. You cannot get any more energy out of hydrogen then what is put into making it (generally from water). So hydrogen is not an energy source but electrical energy stored in a physical form. Hydrogen stores a lot of energy by volume so it does make a good fuel transport and is lighter than batteries. Countries that have an abundant electrical energy (like Greenland) can convert it into Hydrogen and transport it to other parts of the world. The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:14 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: New Technology From: John Woodgate Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:27 AM Scott B. Lacey writes: Many alternative energy solutions bring their own new problems. Using corn to make ethanol for fuel is causing food supply and price issues. So don't use corn: it's far from the best crop for the job; it just happened to be convenient for pilot studies. Brazil uses sugar cane, much better suited to the task. The price of sugar would escalate accordingly, but at least it's not a food crop that the world relies on for nutrition. Windmills are noisy, and expensive to build and maintain. Where it's windy, the noise doesn't matter. And no doubt building and maintenance costs will fall as experience is gained. In the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, some wind farms have been forced off the grid, due to 'endangered' or 'threatened' birds flying into their blades. You're right about the noise issue. Electric and hybrid vehicles have issues related to the batteries and controls. Firefighters and other emergency workers are concerned about safety in accidents. Probably largely due to aversion from anything new. There are far more hazardous things on the roads. Lithium metal plus fire plus water equals explosion hazard and requires special fire suppression chemicals. Group IA elements are fond of water. As reported in the local paper, firefighters will let a Li battery containing vehicle burn itself out, rather than try to put it out. I haven't read or heard anyone discuss the disposal issues for large Li batteries in electric vehicles. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim
RE: New Technology
From: Brian Kunde Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:17 PM Keep in mind that all BIO-Fuels, corn, sugar cane, whatever, is just solar energy stored in solid form, in this case, carbohydrates which can be converted to alcohol or other hydrocarbons. Crops grow only for a few months out of the year, the rest of the time the land (solar energy hitting the land) goes to waste. The land use would be better served to install solar panels than crops where the sun's energy could be used year round. The problem with solar panels (other than their inefficiencies and expense) is how to store and transport the energy. And that they take up a significant surface area to produce significantly useful amounts of commercial energy. Some of that land would be taken out of agricultural use to support commercial solar energy production. Reports of food shortages due to crops being diverted into energy production tend to make claims of conversion of agricultural lands into solar energy production unfeasible. Nationally, WalMart has reported runs on rice, because of media driven concerns about shortages. Third world aid is also effected. All of these shortages cause food prices to rise above the rises they might otherwise see derived from crude oil speculation. Some recent reports also indicate that ethanol is every bit as harmful to the environment as petroleum based fuels. My direct report manager recently added in a relatively small, 14 kW solar panel array onto his pool house. This will pay for itself eventually, in the form of utility savings, and might last long enough to turn a small profit before its last gasp. This form of solar seems a more likely option for solar than removing land from agriculture. Ultimately, all forms of matter are energy storage mechanisms. Getting the energy out is always an inefficient process, but some cost less than others. Other than some new technology which hasn't been invested yet, I think the only solution is to go up (more solar power from the sun) or down (geothermal heat energy from the earth's core). We shouldn't place too much emphasis on any specific technology. We need a balanced portfolio. But we also need bureaucratic, regulatory and legislative barriers lifted to allow wider deployment of a broader range of technologies. Among the barriers are environmental regulations and special interest groups that protest every possible effort to resolve energy issues. Wind is an excellent source of energy, which is also a solar energy storage mechanism, if thought of in the broader sense, and doesn't require direct impingement of solar radiation to function. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New Technology
An interesting discussion. I'd like to inject a few points: Prior to the discovery of petroleum oil the main source of oil for lamps was the rendered blubber of sperm whales. Pollution from coal-fired locomotives destroyed streams next to railroads. This was the public transportation of the day. Pollution from horses was a huge problem and health hazard in cities. Each generation has it's challenges. Every time I hear someone say they would like to eliminate the use of oil I want to remind them that gasoline is just one of many products derived from a cracking tower. Most people would be shocked to know how many vital items are produced from oil. Many alternative energy solutions bring their own new problems. Using corn to make ethanol for fuel is causing food supply and price issues. Windmills are noisy, and expensive to build and maintain. Electric and hybrid vehicles have issues related to the batteries and controls. Firefighters and other emergency workers are concerned about safety in accidents. The average mechanic is forbidden to work on them and the ones who have been specially qualified are in great demand. Ken Javor has stated the real problem correctly. The Overlords want more control of the kind they had at the dawn of the industrial age and will try to get it through engineered crisis'. Many years ago I wrote an opinion piece (never published) on this subject titled Gunpowder and Gasoline, Portable Power to the People. My opinion has not changed. Besides, as a motorcycle owner in the Northeast, Global Warming = more riding days. Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New Technology
In message 481c44d8.13619.3d1...@sblacey.verizon.net, dated Sat, 3 May 2008, Scott B. Lacey sbla...@verizon.net writes: Many alternative energy solutions bring their own new problems. Using corn to make ethanol for fuel is causing food supply and price issues. So don't use corn: it's far from the best crop for the job; it just happened to be convenient for pilot studies. This is really OT, but it isn't the solutions that BRING the problems, At most, they give human stupidity (closely allied to cupidity!) and lack of foresight the scope to CREATE problems. Windmills are noisy, and expensive to build and maintain. Where it's windy, the noise doesn't matter. And no doubt building and maintenance costs will fall as experience is gained. Electric and hybrid vehicles have issues related to the batteries and controls. Firefighters and other emergency workers are concerned about safety in accidents. Probably largely due to aversion from anything new. There are far more hazardous things on the roads. The average mechanic is forbidden to work on them and the ones who have been specially qualified are in great demand. ... which could have been foreseen and proper training programmes set up. Ken Javor has stated the real problem correctly. The Overlords want more control of the kind they had at the dawn of the industrial age and will try to get it through engineered crisis'. I don't see that we need to postulate any Overlords with evil intent. Humankind screws itself up quite well without. For example, to bring us back to our muttons, the people involved with the new safety standard IEC 62368 are being bombarded with opposing views, all economical with the truth, about the desirability (or not) of making TV cabinets flame-retardant. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Murphy's Law has now been officially re-named The Certainty Principle John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New Technology
Although it is a minor correction, let me state that soot from inefficient gas lighting and coal burning was a major source of pollution in the early 20th century. In St. Louis, the Missouri Botanical Gardens bought a large piece of property far from the city with the intention of moving their collection. The particulate pollution in the city was so bad that most of the plants at the garden were in poor shape or dead. Electric power replaced gas and coal before the garden staff could move their collections. The air quickly became clearer and the Missouri Botanical Gardens has remained in its original location. The introduction of new technology in itself does pose environmental questions, but the problems often stem from political issues, not technical issues. What would it take to build clean nuclear power plants? There are good designs available, but there are political problems getting them built and tested. Hydroelectric power looks good, but dam placement has political implications in addition to the environmental implications. As engineers, we can continue to work to make existing technology more efficient and environmentally friendlier without raising the cost. It needs to be done with an economy of incentives. The improvements must be economically and politically acceptable to the masses. Ted Eckert oover...@lexmark.com wrote: A more basic question. Would Edison? slight bulb have ever illuminated the night if an environmental impact statement had predicted the electrical power infrastructure necessary to support it, and the resultant ?man-made global warming?? When measured against the emissions of the candles, oil lanterns, torches, fire places, camp fires, signal fires etc. Probably. The major pollution factor in the large cities in the early 1900s was horse exhaust. With which exhaust would you rather deal horse exhaust or petrol fumes? It is not the technology that is the problem, it is the abuse of it. We could turn off at least 60 of the lights we use at night to little effect If we had effective mass transit the automobile exhaust could be greatly reduced. If we all lived closer to our jobs the same would be true. If we didn't insist on an automobile that weighed as much as the Queen Mary and went from 0 - Mach 1.5 in 13 nanoseconds, there would be a lot less also. If we lived in houses that were sized properly . . .. Until we make some hard choices about our comfort and preferences, things will continue to deteriorate. New technologies will only transfer the pain to another venue and/or time. Oscar Overton Product Safety Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachment(s), is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender, by email, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http //mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:
Re: New Technology
In message ofe513f2ab.b06c3d9e-on8525743d.0060578f-8525743d.00613...@lexmark.com, dated Fri, 2 May 2008, oover...@lexmark.com writes: If we all lived closer to our jobs the same would be true. Come to Britain. If you lived more than about 80 miles away, you'd fall into the sea. If we didn't insist on an automobile that weighed as much as the Queen Mary and went from 0 - Mach 1.5 in 13 nanoseconds, there would be a lot less also. Come to Britain. Our cars only weigh as much as a 747 and at Mach 1.5 you'd fall into the sea after less than 13 ns. If we lived in houses that were sized properly . . .. Come to Britain. Our houses are specially designed to prevent rotation of feline pets. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Murphy's Law has now been officially re-named The Certainty Principle John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New Technology
Precisely my point. The Ubermensch morphs into Overlord. Electricity is rationed, we are told where to live and in what size domicile, what we can drive if we are allowed private autos, and the list would not doubt go on forever. Many of these types of controls were indeed in place during WWII, when both sides were in a struggle for their very continued existence. It is not coincidence that the excuse for imposing these controls during nominal peace time is a crisis advertised to once again doom civilization - global warming. The would-be Overlords, who are in reality Untermensch, fully recognize that a crisis of global proportions is necessary to impose the controls they wish to exert. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: oover...@lexmark.com Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:52 -0400 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: New Technology A more basic question. Would Edison? slight bulb have ever illuminated the night if an environmental impact statement had predicted the electrical power infrastructure necessary to support it, and the resultant ?man-made global warming?? When measured against the emissions of the candles, oil lanterns, torches, fire places, camp fires, signal fires etc. Probably. The major pollution factor in the large cities in the early 1900s was horse exhaust. With which exhaust would you rather deal horse exhaust or petrol fumes? It is not the technology that is the problem, it is the abuse of it. We could turn off at least 60 of the lights we use at night to little effect If we had effective mass transit the automobile exhaust could be greatly reduced. If we all lived closer to our jobs the same would be true. If we didn't insist on an automobile that weighed as much as the Queen Mary and went from 0 - Mach 1.5 in 13 nanoseconds, there would be a lot less also. If we lived in houses that were sized properly . . .. Until we make some hard choices about our comfort and preferences, things will continue to deteriorate. New technologies will only transfer the pain to another venue and/or time. Oscar Overton Product Safety Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachment(s), is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender, by email, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: New Technology
And the same crowd that is screaming man made global warming was screaming man made ice age 35 years ago. Disaster de jour for exactly the purpose you point out, Ken. Sorry, I'm not drinking that cool aid. Ghery Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:39 AM To: Untitled Subject: Re: New Technology Precisely my point. The Ubermensch morphs into Overlord. Electricity is rationed, we are told where to live and in what size domicile, what we can drive if we are allowed private autos, and the list would not doubt go on forever. Many of these types of controls were indeed in place during WWII, when both sides were in a struggle for their very continued existence. It is not coincidence that the excuse for imposing these controls during nominal peace time is a crisis advertised to once again doom civilization - global warming. The would-be Overlords, who are in reality Untermensch, fully recognize that a crisis of global proportions is necessary to impose the controls they wish to exert. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: oover...@lexmark.com Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:52 -0400 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: New Technology A more basic question. Would Edison? slight bulb have ever illuminated the night if an environmental impact statement had predicted the electrical power infrastructure necessary to support it, and the resultant ?man-made global warming?? When measured against the emissions of the candles, oil lanterns, torches, fire places, camp fires, signal fires etc. Probably. The major pollution factor in the large cities in the early 1900s was horse exhaust. With which exhaust would you rather deal horse exhaust or petrol fumes? It is not the technology that is the problem, it is the abuse of it. We could turn off at least 60 of the lights we use at night to little effect If we had effective mass transit the automobile exhaust could be greatly reduced. If we all lived closer to our jobs the same would be true. If we didn't insist on an automobile that weighed as much as the Queen Mary and went from 0 - Mach 1.5 in 13 nanoseconds, there would be a lot less also. If we lived in houses that were sized properly . . .. Until we make some hard choices about our comfort and preferences, things will continue to deteriorate. New technologies will only transfer the pain to another venue and/or time. Oscar Overton Product Safety Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachment(s), is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender, by email, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc
