RE: [PSES] what is a permanent label - UL R/C program
And to expand on the C of A topic there are a few main scenarios I have seen: 1. A reasonable list. 2. Populated with everything by a lazy engineer at the agency who picked everything on the menu. 3. Populated with everything because the vendor didn't really want to test their component. Vendors of components should keep a watchful eye on the engineer at the agency to avoid #2 and keep the C of A list to the absolute minimum. Helps out the end user a lot. End users of components should avoid vendors who resort to #3. Dan From: Bryce Stammerjohan [mailto:bstammerjo...@thoratec.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] what is a permanent label - UL R/C program Brian, Short (kinda) answers: 1 - To make it easier for end product mfrs to use, say a Tamura transformer, without having to pay for a full transformer evaluation (spacings, overload, temp., etc.) each time the same unit is submitted (plus it puts a little money in their pockets). 2 - Since Recognized Components (R/C) are by their definition incomplete products (as opposed, say, to a DVD player) the C of A's in the R/C report are there for easy guidance of the UL end-product test engineer, so they have a condensed list of things they must review when testing the DVD player with the R/C Tamura transformer that could affect the safety of the DVD player. It helps the UL engineer by not making them go back through (especially in the days before electronic record keeping where it might take days to get the original test data for said Component) to review the work to see what could affect their evaluation. Since most end product test engineers there are not well versed in the vast array of R/C in the products they see. Bryce former UL'er MOO - my opinions only, not any former or current employer's. From: Brian O'Connell [oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] what is a permanent label Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of American Idle Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:16 PM To: Gartman, Richard Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
RE: [PSES] what is a permanent label - UL R/C program
I am not as stupid as I look, it is just that the thorazine makes me shuffle my feet. The 'questions' were somewhere between satire and hyperbole - but because my rated operating range is between sarcasm and hyperbole, as specified in the Conditions of Acceptability on my existence certificate, all previous statments must be subject to re-test and de-rating in the end-use life. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Bryce Stammerjohan Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] what is a permanent label - UL R/C program Brian, Short (kinda) answers: 1 - To make it easier for end product mfrs to use, say a Tamura transformer, without having to pay for a full transformer evaluation (spacings, overload, temp., etc.) each time the same unit is submitted (plus it puts a little money in their pockets). 2 - Since Recognized Components (R/C) are by their definition incomplete products (as opposed, say, to a DVD player) the C of A's in the R/C report are there for easy guidance of the UL end-product test engineer, so they have a condensed list of things they must review when testing the DVD player with the R/C Tamura transformer that could affect the safety of the DVD player. It helps the UL engineer by not making them go back through (especially in the days before electronic record keeping where it might take days to get the original test data for said Component) to review the work to see what could affect their evaluation. Since most end product test engineers there are not well versed in the vast array of R/C in the products they see. Bryce former UL'er MOO - my opinions only, not any former or current employer's. From: Brian O'Connell [oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] what is a permanent label Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [PSES] what is a permanent label - UL R/C program
Brian, Short (kinda) answers: 1 - To make it easier for end product mfrs to use, say a Tamura transformer, without having to pay for a full transformer evaluation (spacings, overload, temp., etc.) each time the same unit is submitted (plus it puts a little money in their pockets). 2 - Since Recognized Components (R/C) are by their definition incomplete products (as opposed, say, to a DVD player) the C of A's in the R/C report are there for easy guidance of the UL end-product test engineer, so they have a condensed list of things they must review when testing the DVD player with the R/C Tamura transformer that could affect the safety of the DVD player. It helps the UL engineer by not making them go back through (especially in the days before electronic record keeping where it might take days to get the original test data for said Component) to review the work to see what could affect their evaluation. Since most end product test engineers there are not well versed in the vast array of R/C in the products they see. Bryce former UL'er MOO - my opinions only, not any former or current employer's. From: Brian O'Connell [oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] what is a permanent label Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of American Idle Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:16 PM To: Gartman, Richard Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: what is a permanent label
Ted provides another well-thought reply. w00t points for MS. But I cannot always dwell in the house of engineering logic. I am dogmatic about specifying a SYSTEM under 'PGJI2'. TUVR, CSA, etc think that this is wonderful and note that this contributes to blue birds singing in the background. UL does not have a consistent policy on birdsong creation - they have for some, but not all submittals, repeated the defacement and adhesion tests - because the 'other' agency's report did not... R/S, Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:16 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: what is a permanent label It is hard to tell what is just a UL program to bring in more money and what programs actually have some reasonable intent hiding behind the rules. First, let's separate out the two sets of label programs. There are Authorized Label Suppliers and there is the program for Marking and Labeling Systems. Authorized Label Suppliers comply with UL's requirements for printing the registered certification marks. Companies in this program adhere to the requirements in the publication Printing UL Marks. However, there is no specific UL standard used for the program. This program only means that the supplier has agreed to follow the guidelines on the appearance and use of the marks. These are covered under category code PGAA. This program covers nothing in regards to the material used or durability. Buying labels from an Authorized Label Supplier will not exempt you from any durability testing. UL also has its Marking and Labeling Systems programs. These programs do include the requirements of UL 969 and should exempt you from additional durability testing. PGDQ2 covers labels manufactured completely by a label converter. These are sold as finished printed labels, although in some cases, the product manufacturer can add information, such as serial numbers, with approved printer and ink combinations. The UL file for PGDQ2 labels will specify the substrate to which the labels may be applied, temperature range and whether the label is acceptable for outdoor use. Labels printed at the product manufacturer are covered under PGGU2 and PGJI2. The first program covers the substrate material and the second covers the combinations of substrate, printer and ink. If you use the right materials and methods under these programs, you shouldn't have to go through the durability testing. You will almost certainly need this information in your critical components list, but it should give you more flexibility than if you create labels outside of any UL program. In the latter case, you will need to prove durability and you won't be able to change anything without new testing. For UL's view, go to the following link. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/manufacturer/aut horizedlabelsuppliers/ Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of American Idle Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:16 PM To: Gartman, Richard Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: what is a permanent label
It is hard to tell what is just a UL program to bring in more money and what programs actually have some reasonable intent hiding behind the rules. First, let’s separate out the two sets of label programs. There are Authorized Label Suppliers and there is the program for Marking and Labeling Systems. Authorized Label Suppliers comply with UL’s requirements for printing the registered certification marks. Companies in this program adhere to the requirements in the publication “Printing UL Marks” http://www.ul.com/global/eng/documents offerings/perspectives/manufacturers/au horizedlabelsuppliers/printingulmarks.pdf . However, there is no specific UL standard used for the program. This program only means that the supplier has agreed to follow the guidelines on the appearance and use of the marks. These are covered under category code PGAA h tp://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/templa e/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=PGA .GuideInfoccnshorttitle=Authorized+Lab l+Suppliers+Programobjid=1076248234cf id=1073741824version=versionlessparent_id=1076248233sequence=1 . This program covers nothing in regards to the material used or durability. Buying labels from an Authorized Label Supplier will not exempt you from any durability testing. UL also has its Marking and Labeling Systems programs. These programs do include the requirements of UL 969 and should exempt you from additional durability testing. PGDQ2 http://data ase.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/ FRAME/showpage.html?name=PGDQ2.GuideIn occnshorttitle=Marking+and+Labeling+Sy tems+-+Componentobjid=1073778498cfgid 1073741824version=versionlessparent_id=1073778497sequence=1 covers labels manufactured completely by a label converter. These are sold as finished printed labels, although in some cases, the product manufacturer can add information, such as serial numbers, with approved printer and ink combinations. The UL file for PGDQ2 labels will specify the substrate to which the labels may be applied, temperature range and whether the label is acceptable for outdoor use. Labels printed at the product manufacturer are covered under PGGU2 http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/tem late/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=P GU2.MH11410ccnshorttitle=Marking+and+L beling+System+Materials+-+Componentobj d=1073782975cfgid=1073741824version=v rsionlessparent_id=1073782853sequence=1 and PGJI2 http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/tem late/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name= GJI2.GuideInfoccnshorttitle=Printing+M terials+-+Componentobjid=1073783168cf id=1073741824version=versionlessparent_id=1073783167sequence=1 . The first program covers the substrate material and the second covers the combinations of substrate, printer and ink. If you use the right materials and methods under these programs, you shouldn’t have to go through the durability testing. You will almost certainly need this information in your critical components list, but it should give you more flexibility than if you create labels outside of any UL program. In the latter case, you will need to prove durability and you won’t be able to change anything without new testing. For UL’s view, go to the following link. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offe ings/perspectives/manufacturer/authorizedlabelsuppliers/ Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of American Idle Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:16 PM To: Gartman, Richard Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee
RE: what is a permanent label
Since I am the chair of the Stupid Questions Committee, I must ask what is, in fact, the purpose of the UL Recognized Component program; and what is the purpose of any conditions of acceptability in the UL component reports ? Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of American Idle Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:16 PM To: Gartman, Richard Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: what is a permanent label Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: what is a permanent label
Depends on the standard. Some standards specify a particular standard for pemannecu of amrkings; for example UL969. Other standards have particular permenancy of markings tests built into the end product standard such as UL/IEC 60950-1 Best Regards --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Gartman, Richard rgart...@ti.com wrote: From: Gartman, Richard rgart...@ti.com Subject: what is a permanent label To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 6:52 AM All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a “permanent” label? Regards W. Richard Gartman , MS , CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas , Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com http://us.mc347.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com http://www.education.ti.com/ www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: what is a permanent label
Some Standards will tell you outright (example; 60950-1). If you use UL 969 approved labelling systems and pass your permanence of marking test, you should be OK. Keep in mind any special environmental conditions (extreme cold, UV exposure, etc) and that the label stock may need to be specifically approved for the material you are expecting it to adhere to. For some reason, UL is now requiring you to pass the permanence of marking test, rather than just accepting the UL 969 labels. -Ken A. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Gartman, Richard rgart...@ti.com wrote: All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a “permanent” label? Regards W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com mailto:rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com http://www.education.ti.com/ www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@socal.rr.comGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@socal.rr.comGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: what is a permanent label
In general, most product safety standards have a clause titled something like Durability of markings. My standards database search engine (written in Python of course, woot) says that label material requirements are addressed by: UL 969 ANSI Z535 IPC-A-610 sections 7 of 60601-1, 60335-1 section 1.2 of 60950-1 section 5 of 60065 Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gartman, Richard Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: what is a permanent label All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a permanent label? Regards W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [PSES] what is a permanent label
Richard, “Permanent” label is not a term used in Product Safety standards. When refer to markings on use “permanent affixed”. This characteristics is evaluated by the Durability of Markings test. Many standard specify in which way and which are the chemicals used to rub the markings for a defined time. When evaluating durability, the effect of normal use (environment, etc.) on markings is also to be taken into account. Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Q.A Certification Manager I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 1 Bat Sheva St., POB 87 Lod 71100, Israel V: +972-(0)8-9153100 Ext.203 F: +972-(0)8-9153101 M: +972-(0)54-7245794 st...@itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il From: Gartman, Richard [mailto:rgart...@ti.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] what is a permanent label All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a “permanent” label? Regards W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com mailto:rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com http://www.education.ti.com/ www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: what is a permanent label
In message f12eba124c6e064b9cf1b45e67ddb7e77fd0f...@dlee02.ent.ti.com, dated Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Gartman, Richard rgart...@ti.com writes: When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a ?permanent? label? Tests are specified in some IEC/EN safety standards, such as 60065 and 60950-1. Make sure you get the latest version, because the 'petroleum spirit' (with a specified kauri-butanol value) called up in earlier versions is not at all easy to obtain. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: what is a permanent label
Richard, Permanent is often referred to as suitably durable for the environment or suitably durable for the conditions of use. Since you understand the intended use environment for your product, and the expected lifetime of the product, these define the kind of normal conditions of exposure that you can anticipate. Will the markings be subject to solvents? Mechanical wear (like the markings on controls)? Heat? UV? What about specific locations? Some mylar labels use a metallic coating that is conductive and can wreak havoc if detached and dropped into live parts. Once you have scoped out the use conditions, you can then begin to specify the requirements for the label. Some standards will also exclude or include specific means of attachment, such as exclusion of self-adhesive labels, or inclusion of engraved tags fixed with mechanical hardware. If you are considering self-adhesive labels, there are test standards for the suitability of the label adhesive and materials under both UL and CSA banners. Plastics may also need to meet flammability requirements. -- Doug Nix Office: (519) 650-4753 Mobile (519) 729-5704 d...@complianceinsight.ca On 19-Aug-09, at 9:52 AM, Gartman, Richard wrote: All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a “permanent” label? Regards W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com mailto:rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com http://www.education.ti.com/ www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
what is a permanent label
All, I am in need of some guidance. When placing a label on a product that contains manufactures and regulatory information, what standards or test need to be followed to ensure it is a “permanent” label? Regards W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com mailto:rgart...@ti.com Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com http://www.education.ti.com/ www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
