Re: [Emc-users] Boss 5 Conversion

[John Murphy]

I'd just add that I did this conversion, with the geckos, and the
machine moves very nicely.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 11:31 AM, N. Christopher Perry
 wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Awesome.  Thank you for the download.
>
> I'm considering using some surplus Parker OEM750 drives on mine, but will 
> take a closer look at the Gecko hardware.
>
> N.C.
>
> On Jun 29, 2012, at 9:59, Michael Panchula  wrote:
>
>> I converted my Boss 5 to PC based, 220V single phase power. I kept the
>> stock steppers.
>>
>> Here's a quick parts breakdown:
>>
>> *Power *
>> Stepper Power Suppy:
>> Antek 48V toroidal trasformer AN-10248 1000VA
>> PMDX-135-8020 20A power prep module
>>
>> Relay Power Supply:
>> El-Pac BFS-500 24V 20A
>>
>> Logic Power Supply:
>> Spare PC 150W PS
>>
>> *VFD*
>> TB Woods SE-1 2HP VFD
>>
>> *PC *
>> Gateway Pentium 4 3.0Ghz
>> *
>> *
>> *Display*
>> NEC 15" LCD Touchscreen
>> *
>> *
>> *PC interface boards*
>> C11G Break out board
>> C10 Breakout board
>> Netmos based PCI parallel port
>>
>> *Stepper Drivers*
>> Gecko 203V
>>
>> *Relays*
>> Various 24v relays controlling  VFD, Stepper PS, tied in to E-Stop
>>
>>
>> Build notes:
>> Removed the entire back cabinet.
>>
>> In the side cabinet where the tape drive lived, I put in a 3/4 MDF board
>> and use it for tool storage.
>>
>> I removed the heatsinks from the right side of the remaining control box.
>> I covered the opening with a blank. I separated the heatsinks and cut one
>> down to mount it the opening on the back wall of the control cabinet and
>> mounted the Geckos to it.  No problem keeping them cool.
>>
>> Per Marcus from Gecko -- wire the stock steppers in series, no current
>> resistor on drvie.   I also installed a capacitor across the supply leads
>> to each Gecko (don't remember the value off the top of my head).
>>
>> I reused the existing spindle enable and e-stop on the head for enabling
>> the stepper power, and on the e-stop I wired the stepper power to the NC
>> side of the switch and the Gecko disable to the NO.  In e-stop the relay
>> shuts off the power to the steppers and VFD, and the disable turns off the
>> drives while the power supply drains down.  Not to say this is the best
>> way, just how I did it.
>>
>> Getting the Netmos based PCI card configurred under Linuxcnc was a bit
>> tricky, but thanks to Jon's PCIsetup utility, I got it tamed.
>>
>> My Boss 5 has two different brands of steppers,  Sigma on the X & Y,
>> Superior on the Z.   I'm currently running 60 IMP rapids on the X & Y, and
>> can only get 45 out of the Superior on the Z.  I just bought a spare
>> Superior at the CNC Workshop, and it's consistent, 45 IPM.
>>
>> One other tip -- use wire ferrules on all the connections, they make a
>> neater and more robust connection.  McMaster-Carr has a nice assortment
>> pack for ~$30.
>>
>> The touch screen works well, there was just a new driver released by 3M
>> this spring.
>>
>> I hope this is of use.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ** **
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Boss 5 Conversion

[N. Christopher Perry]

Mike,

Awesome.  Thank you for the download.

I'm considering using some surplus Parker OEM750 drives on mine, but will take 
a closer look at the Gecko hardware.

N.C.

On Jun 29, 2012, at 9:59, Michael Panchula  wrote:

> I converted my Boss 5 to PC based, 220V single phase power. I kept the
> stock steppers.
> 
> Here's a quick parts breakdown:
> 
> *Power *
> Stepper Power Suppy:
> Antek 48V toroidal trasformer AN-10248 1000VA
> PMDX-135-8020 20A power prep module
> 
> Relay Power Supply:
> El-Pac BFS-500 24V 20A
> 
> Logic Power Supply:
> Spare PC 150W PS
> 
> *VFD*
> TB Woods SE-1 2HP VFD
> 
> *PC *
> Gateway Pentium 4 3.0Ghz
> *
> *
> *Display*
> NEC 15" LCD Touchscreen
> *
> *
> *PC interface boards*
> C11G Break out board
> C10 Breakout board
> Netmos based PCI parallel port
> 
> *Stepper Drivers*
> Gecko 203V
> 
> *Relays*
> Various 24v relays controlling  VFD, Stepper PS, tied in to E-Stop
> 
> 
> Build notes:
> Removed the entire back cabinet.
> 
> In the side cabinet where the tape drive lived, I put in a 3/4 MDF board
> and use it for tool storage.
> 
> I removed the heatsinks from the right side of the remaining control box.
> I covered the opening with a blank. I separated the heatsinks and cut one
> down to mount it the opening on the back wall of the control cabinet and
> mounted the Geckos to it.  No problem keeping them cool.
> 
> Per Marcus from Gecko -- wire the stock steppers in series, no current
> resistor on drvie.   I also installed a capacitor across the supply leads
> to each Gecko (don't remember the value off the top of my head).
> 
> I reused the existing spindle enable and e-stop on the head for enabling
> the stepper power, and on the e-stop I wired the stepper power to the NC
> side of the switch and the Gecko disable to the NO.  In e-stop the relay
> shuts off the power to the steppers and VFD, and the disable turns off the
> drives while the power supply drains down.  Not to say this is the best
> way, just how I did it.
> 
> Getting the Netmos based PCI card configurred under Linuxcnc was a bit
> tricky, but thanks to Jon's PCIsetup utility, I got it tamed.
> 
> My Boss 5 has two different brands of steppers,  Sigma on the X & Y,
> Superior on the Z.   I'm currently running 60 IMP rapids on the X & Y, and
> can only get 45 out of the Superior on the Z.  I just bought a spare
> Superior at the CNC Workshop, and it's consistent, 45 IPM.
> 
> One other tip -- use wire ferrules on all the connections, they make a
> neater and more robust connection.  McMaster-Carr has a nice assortment
> pack for ~$30.
> 
> The touch screen works well, there was just a new driver released by 3M
> this spring.
> 
> I hope this is of use.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ** **
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[Jeshua Lacock]

On Jun 29, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Ed Nisley wrote:

> On Fri, 2012-06-29 at 00:59 -0600, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
>> Ultimaker is currently the fastest 
>> (possibly highest quality too) hobby plastic extruder
> 
> The Bowden extruder notion seems to have more trouble with ooze: half a
> meter of filament beyond the drive wheel prevents fast retraction.

Yeah, I have heard that, but I think the proof is in the pudding, and from what 
I have seen Ultimaker produces superior results compared to its competitors.

Personally, I wouldn't mind cleaning up some strings to get faster/better 
quality results if I had to.

> Reducing the extruder mass certainly improves the speed, at least given
> the usual under-powered and over-loaded stepper drives... [grin]

Indeed, like I said, I would love to see what some proper servos could do.

;)


Cheers,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated

Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/29 andy pugh :
> On 29 June 2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have something to suggest?
>
> Have a full-size water table, but have lift-out slats and a
> routing/milling surface that drops in in their place.
> You would probably leave the machine configured 2/3 slats and 1/3
> milling most of the time (possibly with a board on top), only removing
> the milling surface when cutting very large pieces.

Thanks, I like the idea, I just updated a little bit:
About 1/3 or 1/2 of the table has milling surface, positioned so that
slats are placed above it so that, if water is filled up to the upper
edge of slats, then milling surface would be 10 cm or more in the
water - I hope that would be enough for the molten metal to cool down
and not to stick to the milling surface and to be easy wiped off into
the other half of the table.
Well, I suspect that mostly I would have the way You suggest - some
2/3 of surface - slats in place for plasma, 1/3 - slats removed for
milling. And then just rise/lower the water level to switch from
milling to plasma.


2012/6/29 Yishin Li :
>
> Have you consider build the machine larger? I mean you can use 80% of the
> area for plasma cutting and the other 20% for routing. In this way, you can
> share most of the electrical parts, and prevent the plasma dust from
> falling on your milling surface.

I already am considering 2700x1400 mm working envelope :))
I chose that size so that I can easily cut with plasma metal sheets
with size of 2500x1250 mm.
Although I suspect that vast majority of the jobs would be much
smaller. But those rare occasions of bigger jobs always have the
biggest money :))

Yes, sharing the same electronics, motors and actually whole
construction of machine is the main reason for the attempt to combine
both of these technologies (well, honestly, I have ideas for other
instruments as well). Building one machine instead of two costs only 2
times less... Plus it would take up only 2 times less floor space.
if the machine is built properly, it will be fast enough for the
things I need, so I do not expect to run out of the machining time
capacity (to need another one) any time soon...


2012/6/29 Les Newell :
>
> If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking
> into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant. You only need a trace of
> oil in the mist to act as a lubricant while the air clears the chips and
> cools the part. It works very well.

I was thinking that I could use the liquid that is already there, in
the watertable.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look into it, as I expect
that only reason for the spindle to meet steel would be drilling
holes/marking hole locations, so not afraid about much of smoke.

I guess that having some oil in the water, especially if it is
vegetable oil, is nothing I should be afraid of.

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[Jon Elson]

Jeshua Lacock wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
>
>   
>> Here it is printing at 300 mm/s:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5SoEdRzKlA
Still looks like 25 seconds/layer or thereabouts.  Certainly a big 
improvement
over earlier designs, though.

Jon

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[Emc-users] Boss 5 Conversion

[Michael Panchula]

I converted my Boss 5 to PC based, 220V single phase power. I kept the
stock steppers.

Here's a quick parts breakdown:

*Power *
Stepper Power Suppy:
Antek 48V toroidal trasformer AN-10248 1000VA
PMDX-135-8020 20A power prep module

Relay Power Supply:
El-Pac BFS-500 24V 20A

Logic Power Supply:
Spare PC 150W PS

*VFD*
TB Woods SE-1 2HP VFD

*PC *
Gateway Pentium 4 3.0Ghz
*
*
*Display*
NEC 15" LCD Touchscreen
*
*
*PC interface boards*
C11G Break out board
C10 Breakout board
Netmos based PCI parallel port

*Stepper Drivers*
Gecko 203V

*Relays*
Various 24v relays controlling  VFD, Stepper PS, tied in to E-Stop


Build notes:
Removed the entire back cabinet.

In the side cabinet where the tape drive lived, I put in a 3/4 MDF board
and use it for tool storage.

I removed the heatsinks from the right side of the remaining control box.
 I covered the opening with a blank. I separated the heatsinks and cut one
down to mount it the opening on the back wall of the control cabinet and
mounted the Geckos to it.  No problem keeping them cool.

Per Marcus from Gecko -- wire the stock steppers in series, no current
resistor on drvie.   I also installed a capacitor across the supply leads
to each Gecko (don't remember the value off the top of my head).

I reused the existing spindle enable and e-stop on the head for enabling
the stepper power, and on the e-stop I wired the stepper power to the NC
side of the switch and the Gecko disable to the NO.  In e-stop the relay
shuts off the power to the steppers and VFD, and the disable turns off the
drives while the power supply drains down.  Not to say this is the best
way, just how I did it.

Getting the Netmos based PCI card configurred under Linuxcnc was a bit
tricky, but thanks to Jon's PCIsetup utility, I got it tamed.

My Boss 5 has two different brands of steppers,  Sigma on the X & Y,
Superior on the Z.   I'm currently running 60 IMP rapids on the X & Y, and
can only get 45 out of the Superior on the Z.  I just bought a spare
Superior at the CNC Workshop, and it's consistent, 45 IPM.

One other tip -- use wire ferrules on all the connections, they make a
neater and more robust connection.  McMaster-Carr has a nice assortment
pack for ~$30.

The touch screen works well, there was just a new driver released by 3M
this spring.

I hope this is of use.

-Mike










*
*




** **
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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[Ed Nisley]

On Fri, 2012-06-29 at 00:59 -0600, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
> Ultimaker is currently the fastest 
> (possibly highest quality too) hobby plastic extruder

The Bowden extruder notion seems to have more trouble with ooze: half a
meter of filament beyond the drive wheel prevents fast retraction.

Reducing the extruder mass certainly improves the speed, at least given
the usual under-powered and over-loaded stepper drives... [grin]

-- 
Ed
http://softsolder.com



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Re: [Emc-users] How to test original Bridgeport Series I CNC Mill

[Matthew Herd]

N.C.,

Some research I've done tells me that most people just set the varispeed head 
to ~3300 RPM and use the VFD for speed control, but I'm trying to go all out 
and have total control.  They even run it to 5500 RPM, but I'm not sure I want 
to strain the spindle bearings that much.

Let me give you the generic warning about checking the lube metering valves to 
make sure they're not plugged.  Mine has 4, and the ones for the table use the 
metered oil to spread through channels in the ways.  I didn't verify that the 
channels are clear, but the metering valves are fairly easy to pull on the left 
side of the knee and column.  Some people claim there are 31 of them, but this 
must be other versions of the machine.

This is one resource for stepper wiring:  
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bridgeport_hardinge_mills/146609-gecko_203v_bridgeport_stepper_wiring.html#post1061116

I'm told some factory steppers used 6 wire motors, but my schematics only show 
8 wire motors.  The discussion on that forum indicates it's desirable to run 
the motors in parallel.  Apparently the factory drives supply 8 amps, so the 
geckos' 7A is sufficient.  I chose to increase the voltage to (hopefully) give 
them a bit more torque, though obviously that won't help at low speeds.  Of 
course, a google search will yield debates on parallel vs. series wiring for 
these motors.  Moral of the story is that I'm not sure yet but the large number 
of testimonials for Geckos as being sufficient for the factory motors tells me 
it'll be fine.  Apparently Larken drives can handle higher current, but they're 
also substantially more expensive per drive and I really don't need absolute 
maximum performance.

Matt
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Les Newell]

Hi Viesturs,

If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking 
into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant. You only need a trace of 
oil in the mist to act as a lubricant while the air clears the chips and 
cools the part. It works very well. You can get vegetable based oils 
specifically designed for this job that are relatively safe (you don't 
want to breathe mineral oil mist). The oil is expensive but lasts a long 
time as you only use a tiny amount. The parts come off the machine with 
just a thin film of oil on them. The trick is to use a nozzle that 
produces a fine stream of droplets rather than an atomized mist. The 
biggest disadvantage of this arrangement is that it is very directional 
so if you are cutting fairly deep you may need two nozzles. You can also 
use oil mist on steel with carbide cutters but smoke can be a problem.

I made my own up but you can buy oil mist sprayers e.g 
 though they are a bit pricy.

Les

On 29/06/2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> Does anyone have something to suggest? I guess the best thing would be
> - use the water in watertable as the coolant for aluminum - water with
> rust-prevention could do.



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Yishin Li]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> 2012/6/28 Yishin Li :
> >
> > We then developed AR02 in replace of 7i34, and it solves the EMI noise
> > problem in that factory. You may refer to
> http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc for
> > the functional block of our control system.
>
> Do I understand correctly, that You are running both stepper and servo
> drives with step/dir signal and the difference for both is that servos
> do provide encoder feedback, while steppers do not?
>

Yes, we implemented closed loop PID control for servo drivers with its
pulse interface. This servo loop is for keep tracking the trajectory
commands. We choose digital A/B phase pulse interface because we believe
it's more immune to EMI noise than analog interface.

For steppers, we just bypass the PID loop and ignore encoder signals.

So I cannot really decide, how to do it best, as the plan is to
> actually build 2 machines - one for client (pure plasma with downdraft
> - that has already been agreed with customer) and the other one for my
> own use. And I want to use my machine not only for plasma also for
> routing/milling. Especially aluminum, so that I can make parts for
> similar machines in future. I have clear plan for the machine itself,
> but I am having trouble, how to design the table - for milling I need
> stiff surface (could be 8 mm steel plate with a grid of holes with
> thread to clamp material) and collection of the coolant (could be a
> pan under that plate), for plasma I will need bunch of slats with
> nothing beneath them, except for water and/or free space for
> downdraft. I do not want to have to 2 table surfaces to be removed and
> then placed on the table.
> Does anyone have something to suggest?
>

Have you consider build the machine larger? I mean you can use 80% of the
area for plasma cutting and the other 20% for routing. In this way, you can
share most of the electrical parts, and prevent the plasma dust from
falling on your milling surface.

Yishin
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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[andy pugh]

On 29 June 2012 07:59, Jeshua Lacock  wrote:

> Also, the Ultimaker has considerably higher resolution. If I were to buy a 
> standalone unit (and I am seriously tempted) I think I would go with the 
> Ultimaker (larger print volume too).

That crossed-slides approach is very interesting.
It seems to me that the "fixed" slides round the edge are only
required for Z-height control, so could be cost-reduced.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[andy pugh]

On 29 June 2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:

> Does anyone have something to suggest?

Have a full-size water table, but have lift-out slats and a
routing/milling surface that drops in in their place.
You would probably leave the machine configured 2/3 slats and 1/3
milling most of the time (possibly with a board on top), only removing
the milling surface when cutting very large pieces.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: linux serial driver question

[Michael Haberler]

this gives a good recipe for glueing in an udev rule:

http://buzzdavidson.com/?p=45

-m
Am 12.06.2012 um 18:05 schrieb Eric Keller:

> My apologies for this off topic post.  I am currently stuck with a little
> bit older version of  Fedora on a Beagleboard.  We use a lot of usb to
> serial converters.  One variety of these converters using the CP2103
> doesn't get added to the /dev filesystem.  I recall years ago editing a
> file so that this happens, but I don't remember which one.  I tried adding
> a rule to the udev system, but that doesn't fix it.My google skills
> appear to be weak on this question.  Any pointers?
> Eric
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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[Jeshua Lacock]

On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:

> Here it is printing at 300 mm/s:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5SoEdRzKlA

Actually that video isn't as nearly as impressive as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtL922rb0_E


Cheers,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated

Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Mark Cason]

On 06/28/2012 09:02 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
>> I don't have a downdraft table but I assume you will have to move huge
>> amounts of air to capture the dust from the plasma. Quite a bit of the
>> dust flies up from the cut point so to be efficient the table will need
>> to be completely enclosed to capture the dust. The amount of dust
>> depends on the material condition as well. It seems to me that the more
>> rust, crap, and dirt on the plate the more dust I see.
>>
>> I recall reading someones build blog where they immersrsed the metal
> roughly 50 mm or so below the water.  The plasma would hold the water back
> during operation and the intimate water contact kept the dust to a complete
> minimum.  I cannot recall who did that though
>
> Brian

   I used to know someone that worked in a shipyard, in Newport News, 
Va.  I asked him once, why the cut metal underwater, and he told me that 
it was done that way, to minimize warpage.  These are chunks of steel 1" 
to 4" thick,  not the 1/8" to 1/2" (or metric equivalent) thickness' a 
HSM/Light Industrial user would be using, but the idea is the same.


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Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] Status of Linux-emc and 3d printing?

[Jeshua Lacock]

On Jun 28, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Ed Nisley wrote:

> On Thu, 2012-06-28 at 10:50 -0400, John Stewart wrote:
>> I don't remember being that impressed with their x/y speeds
> 
> They tend to produce better results below 30 mm/s, mostly because the
> stock firmware doesn't use any acceleration limiting at all, and I've
> seen some down around 10 mm/s near my Sherline's limit.
> 
> Using firmware that applies acceleration limiting helps with the
> non-printing moves, but the plywood-and-acrylic frame isn't rigid enough
> to print accurately much above 40 mm/s. The dreadfully heavy custom
> build platform in my TOM requires a rather low acceleration, but even
> the stock platform isn't a real featherweight…

I understand that the Ultimaker is currently the fastest (possibly highest 
quality too) hobby plastic extruder readily available.

I think I recall reading that printing up to 400mm/s has been achieved, but 
200-300mm/s is more realistic. Here is the "Sprinter" firmware:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBuUfd4cwY

Here it is printing at 300 mm/s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5SoEdRzKlA

>From the Sprinter firmware page:

• The slow corresponds to the current default setting of sprinter, with 
an acceleration of 7000mm/sec^2, corresponding to an acceleration time of 14ms 
and a distance of 0.7mm to 100mm/sec. So, 0.25mm moves will never reach full 
speed.
• The fast acceleration was 70 mm/sec^2=acc. time of 0.14ms and a 
distance of 0.007mm. So basically, there is hardly any acceleration.

I understand that it can print much faster than the Makerbots because the print 
head weighs much less (the Makerbot shleps 2 stepper motors around, the 
Ultimaker 0 stepper motors).

I wonder how much faster one could be with servos instead of stepper motors.

Also, the Ultimaker has considerably higher resolution. If I were to buy a 
standalone unit (and I am seriously tempted) I think I would go with the 
Ultimaker (larger print volume too).


Best,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated

Phone: 208.462.4171


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