Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[sam sokolik]

why can't we use some simple charge pump.. (I think the 555 could be 
used as a charge pump detector..  iirc) that then maybe powers the 
interface logic when linuxcnc is started.

sam
On 12/03/2012 04:56 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 3 December 2012 22:52, N. Christopher Perry
>  wrote:
>> I considered that, but I'm not convinced they will have consistent enough 
>> behavior.
> Computers are really bad at doing random. I reckon each pin will do
> the same wierd stuff every time.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[andy pugh]

On 3 December 2012 22:52, N. Christopher Perry
 wrote:
> I considered that, but I'm not convinced they will have consistent enough 
> behavior.

Computers are really bad at doing random. I reckon each pin will do
the same wierd stuff every time.

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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[N. Christopher Perry]

The charge pump signal is a great idea!  Thank you for pointing that out.

N. Christopher Perry

On Dec 3, 2012, at 11:49, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 10:04 -0600, Jason Burton wrote:
>> On Dec 3, 2012 9:40 AM, "andy pugh"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 3 December 2012 15:15, Jason Burton  wrote:
 How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
 
 AND-gate it with your one shot pin.
>>> 
>>> That sounds a little over-complex.
>>> It is probably simpler to find a better-behaved parallel port pin.
>>> They will tend to change state on power-up. Some are hardware
>>> inverted. Choosing to use (or avoid) the hardware-inverted ones might
>>> be the solution.
> 
> I believe the charge pump signal is normally used to block parallel port
> signals until LinuxCNC is up and running.
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps 
> 
> One possible detector is this:
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9147 
> 
> Or, there are break-out-boards with pump inputs.
> 
> Another option is to use a hardware signal generator, such as from Pico
> or Mesa instead of the parallel port directly.
> -- 
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> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[N. Christopher Perry]

I considered that, but I'm not convinced they will have consistent enough 
behavior.  

I really want a more definitive solution. 

N. Christopher Perry

On Dec 3, 2012, at 10:35, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 3 December 2012 15:15, Jason Burton  wrote:
>> How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
>> 
>> AND-gate it with your one shot pin.
> 
> That sounds a little over-complex.
> It is probably simpler to find a better-behaved parallel port pin.
> They will tend to change state on power-up. Some are hardware
> inverted. Choosing to use (or avoid) the hardware-inverted ones might
> be the solution.
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[N. Christopher Perry]

I considered something like that.  The complexity is that there isn't another 
parallel port pin I can trust to indicate when the PC comes on for use as an 
interlock, and the aux power supplies and drives do not power up at the same 
time as the PC.

I've settled on having a 555 timer energize a NO relay after a ~10s delay.  
I'll have the power from an unused USB port power the 555 delay circuit, and 
the relay will provide isolation to reduce the potential for ground loops.  I 
checked the timing and that parallel port pin and the USB port come up within a 
couple of ms of each other.

N. Christopher Perry

On Dec 3, 2012, at 10:15, Jason Burton  wrote:

> How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
> 
> AND-gate it with your one shot pin.
> 
> When power is off, capacitor bleeds empty through a resistor to ground.
> 
> On power up, the delay circuit is held low until the cap is charged. It
> stays charged until power is shut off again.
> 
> Set the "output enable" threshold with a zener diode perhaps (if the AND
> gate doesn't give an on voltage you like) and the delay with capacitance
> size.
> 
> Best,
> Jason
> On Dec 2, 2012 2:31 PM, "N. Christopher Perry" 
> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you John and Andy.  I've got my machine working almost exactly the
>> way I want: When my spindle is enabled/disabled I have a oneshot triggering
>> a port pin connected to a modified wireless remote for my vacuum system.
>> 
>> Now I just need to build a workaround for the ~4 s pulse I get on that
>> port pin when the computer is turned on...  I'm guessing I need to wire in
>> a delay-on-make lockout for the vacuum remote connection that triggers on
>> some output on the computer.
>> 
>> N.C.
>> 
>> On 2012-Nov-12, at 05:01, andy pugh wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12 November 2012 02:18, John Kasunich  wrote:
>>> 
 "man oneshot" from the command line should get you the documentation.
>>> 
>>> Or the HTML docs:
>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/oneshot.9.html
>>> Note that you can set it to produce a pulse on both the rising and
>>> falling edge, so if you net-ed it to halui.machine,is-on you would get
>>> a pulse when you turned the machine on or off (F2 key in axis)
>>> You need to enable halui to get that pin:
>>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/halui.html
>>> I don't know if you get the pulse, or how long it would be, if you
>>> exit LinuxCNC without turning the machine off.
>>> 
>>> Note that oneshot has the time resolution of the thread it is in. So
>>> 1mS resolution in the typical servo thread.
>>> It can't run in the base thread.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Dave]

It is as good as the Intel Atom 330 boards if setup properly.

But you have to do what Gene mentioned.

The same board works well with Mach3.

Dave

On 12/3/2012 3:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 03 December 2012 15:28:25 Sven Wesley did opine:
>
>
>> 2012/12/3 Dave
>>
>>  
>>> D525MW
>>>
>> I assume that you guys using the D525MW board also is using a Mesa
>> board. I have two D525MW's and if you ask me their performance is
>> really poor. I don't have to push it at all to reach latency values way
>> above 50 000 ns. With a Mesa board yes, without no.
>>
>> /S
>>  
> Sven, 2 things you MUST do.
>
> 1. Turn off the hyper-threading in the bios.
> 2. Add isolcpus=1 to the end of the grub kernel line.
>
> With those 2 things, I flat cannot get a jitter of over 7.5 microseconds,
> and I can run a 23 microsecond BASE_THREAD for hours before getting that
> little advisor that said the latency was exceeded.  And I have yet to have
> a motor stall that I didn't first tell it to turn 800 or more rpms.  At a
> 25 microsecond BASE_THREAD, I have never seen a latency notice.
>
> Slow?  Only if you are microstepping at divisors above /8.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>


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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Lester Caine]

Dave wrote:
>> Just had another batch in and shipping them Dual
>> >boot LinuxCNC and XP although I may well be using USBCNC rather than Mach3
>> >
>> >Slight aside ... anybody looked at USBCNC as a controller with LinuxCNC?
>> >
> What... no Mach3!
>
> Why aren't you using the latest Mach4 release?;-)

Still using an older stable Mach3 on most customer production sites ... if it 
works don't break it and since there are no network connections - no need to 
worry about updates getting in the way :)

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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 03 December 2012 15:28:25 Sven Wesley did opine:

> 2012/12/3 Dave 
> 
> > D525MW
> 
> I assume that you guys using the D525MW board also is using a Mesa
> board. I have two D525MW's and if you ask me their performance is
> really poor. I don't have to push it at all to reach latency values way
> above 50 000 ns. With a Mesa board yes, without no.
> 
> /S

Sven, 2 things you MUST do.

1. Turn off the hyper-threading in the bios.
2. Add isolcpus=1 to the end of the grub kernel line.

With those 2 things, I flat cannot get a jitter of over 7.5 microseconds, 
and I can run a 23 microsecond BASE_THREAD for hours before getting that 
little advisor that said the latency was exceeded.  And I have yet to have 
a motor stall that I didn't first tell it to turn 800 or more rpms.  At a 
25 microsecond BASE_THREAD, I have never seen a latency notice.

Slow?  Only if you are microstepping at divisors above /8.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] 4kw China Spindle

[Sven Wesley]

Not the same seller, but the spindles all look the same. Mine has been
cutting in hard molding Alu with no problem.
(Never mind the sound, it's terrible to record with a phone...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzwBxPGMfeI&list=UUmagqGHrQbdCrd9FsgVCn_A&index=23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OX3Go9LgYg&list=UUmagqGHrQbdCrd9FsgVCn_A&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4T7hNxR2RM&list=UUmagqGHrQbdCrd9FsgVCn_A&index=17





2012/11/27 Jeshua Lacock 

>
> Greetings,
>
> I was wondering if anyone here on the list has used one of these and if
> they would recommend it or not:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-4KW-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-4-/251098918142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a76a96cfe
>
> Otherwise I am open to suggestions!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeshua Lacock
> Founder/Engineer
> 3DTOPO Incorporated
> 
> Phone: 208.462.4171
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Sven Wesley]

2012/12/3 Dave 

> D525MW


I assume that you guys using the D525MW board also is using a Mesa board. I
have two D525MW's and if you ask me their performance is really poor. I
don't have to push it at all to reach latency values way above 50 000 ns.
With a Mesa board yes, without no.

/S
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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012, andy pugh wrote:

> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 17:15:44 +
> From: andy pugh 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?
> 
> On 2 December 2012 16:46, Lester Caine  wrote:
>
>> Slight aside ... anybody looked at USBCNC as a controller with LinuxCNC?
>
> I can't see a clean break line for handoff between LinuxCNC and the USBCNC 
> CPU.
> (Though as the USBCNC device runs RS274/NGC I suspect that large
> chunks of LinuxCNC are running on the external CPU, so it might be
> possible)
>

I suspect that a better path is to separate the real time portion of LinuxCNC
(HAL, motion) from the front end (interpreter, GUI) with a clean network 
compatible, host agnostic, message passing interface. I _think_ this is what 
Michael Haberler is suggesting for LinuxCNC 3


> -- 
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> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[andy pugh]

On 2 December 2012 16:46, Lester Caine  wrote:

> Slight aside ... anybody looked at USBCNC as a controller with LinuxCNC?

I can't see a clean break line for handoff between LinuxCNC and the USBCNC CPU.
(Though as the USBCNC device runs RS274/NGC I suspect that large
chunks of LinuxCNC are running on the external CPU, so it might be
possible)

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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Dave]

On 12/2/2012 11:46 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Just had another batch in and shipping them Dual
> boot LinuxCNC and XP although I may well be using USBCNC rather than Mach3
>
> Slight aside ... anybody looked at USBCNC as a controller with LinuxCNC?
>

What... no Mach3!

Why aren't you using the latest Mach4 release?  ;-)

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[Kirk Wallace]

On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 10:04 -0600, Jason Burton wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2012 9:40 AM, "andy pugh"  wrote:
> >
> > On 3 December 2012 15:15, Jason Burton  wrote:
> > > How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
> > >
> > > AND-gate it with your one shot pin.
> >
> > That sounds a little over-complex.
> > It is probably simpler to find a better-behaved parallel port pin.
> > They will tend to change state on power-up. Some are hardware
> > inverted. Choosing to use (or avoid) the hardware-inverted ones might
> > be the solution.

I believe the charge pump signal is normally used to block parallel port
signals until LinuxCNC is up and running.
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps 

One possible detector is this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9147 

Or, there are break-out-boards with pump inputs.

Another option is to use a hardware signal generator, such as from Pico
or Mesa instead of the parallel port directly.
-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] What current ITX board?

[Dave]

The D525MW has been obsoleted by Intel.  And that was a few months ago.  
I am surprised that Newegg can still get those boards as usually they 
run out quicker than this.

I wonder if Intel isn't keeping the line running for a while longer 
seeing the problems that the Cedarville line has with Linux.

There is a Cedarville graphics solution for Arch Linux and perhaps Mint 
I believe.  But I have not tried those.

The D525MW is a very nice board.  I have purchased many of them with 
zero problems.

Dave



On 12/2/2012 8:00 AM, Pete Matos wrote:
> Anders,
>  While I cannot comment on how it works I just recently bought  a brand
> new Intel Atom motherboard from Newegg.com on the recommendation of two
> other users who have functioning machines that work well with them. I have
> yet to install and test it out as I JUST received my ram order yesterday.
> However my two friends and several other folks apparently have been using
> this board with good results. It apparently tests well in the latency area
> and is pretty good for a LinuxCNC conversion. It does have only one PCI
> slot but it has a parallel, and serial as well as several USB ports on it.
> Here is a linkpeace
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
>
> Hope this helps and good luck man. Peace
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Anders Wallin
> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> I'm looking for an ITX-sized motherboard that will work well with linuxcnc.
>>
>> I now have an Atom DN2800MT which has a lot of positives:
>> - powered from a single DC-jack
>> - passive cooling (just a slow case-fan is enough I assume)
>> - HDMI output
>>
>> However there seems to be one *big* minus which is the CedarView integrated
>> graphics chip. First they are only available on recent Ubuntu distributions
>> and second only on the 32-bit versions (not 64-bit). Thirdly I have now
>> tried a fresh install of 12.04LTS (which works, but the graphics are slow
>> and the resolution wrong with the generic driver) on this board and the
>> cedarview graphics driver install always fails rendering the machine
>> unusable (garbled screen at bootup).
>>
>> The board has a single PCIE slot which I don't want to use for a graphics
>> card since I want to use it for a Mesa FPGA-card.
>>
>> Any ideas or suggestions?
>>
>> AW
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[Jason Burton]

On Dec 3, 2012 9:40 AM, "andy pugh"  wrote:
>
> On 3 December 2012 15:15, Jason Burton  wrote:
> > How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
> >
> > AND-gate it with your one shot pin.
>
> That sounds a little over-complex.
> It is probably simpler to find a better-behaved parallel port pin.
> They will tend to change state on power-up. Some are hardware
> inverted. Choosing to use (or avoid) the hardware-inverted ones might
> be the solution.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
> 

Good to know! I learn something new every day...thanks Andy.

Best,
Jason
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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[andy pugh]

On 3 December 2012 15:15, Jason Burton  wrote:
> How about a capacitor based delay circuit?
>
> AND-gate it with your one shot pin.

That sounds a little over-complex.
It is probably simpler to find a better-behaved parallel port pin.
They will tend to change state on power-up. Some are hardware
inverted. Choosing to use (or avoid) the hardware-inverted ones might
be the solution.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Single Pulse Output?

[Jason Burton]

How about a capacitor based delay circuit?

AND-gate it with your one shot pin.

When power is off, capacitor bleeds empty through a resistor to ground.

On power up, the delay circuit is held low until the cap is charged. It
stays charged until power is shut off again.

Set the "output enable" threshold with a zener diode perhaps (if the AND
gate doesn't give an on voltage you like) and the delay with capacitance
size.

Best,
Jason
 On Dec 2, 2012 2:31 PM, "N. Christopher Perry" 
wrote:

> Thank you John and Andy.  I've got my machine working almost exactly the
> way I want: When my spindle is enabled/disabled I have a oneshot triggering
> a port pin connected to a modified wireless remote for my vacuum system.
>
> Now I just need to build a workaround for the ~4 s pulse I get on that
> port pin when the computer is turned on...  I'm guessing I need to wire in
> a delay-on-make lockout for the vacuum remote connection that triggers on
> some output on the computer.
>
> N.C.
>
> On 2012-Nov-12, at 05:01, andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On 12 November 2012 02:18, John Kasunich  wrote:
> >
> >> "man oneshot" from the command line should get you the documentation.
> >
> > Or the HTML docs:
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/oneshot.9.html
> > Note that you can set it to produce a pulse on both the rising and
> > falling edge, so if you net-ed it to halui.machine,is-on you would get
> > a pulse when you turned the machine on or off (F2 key in axis)
> > You need to enable halui to get that pin:
> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/halui.html
> > I don't know if you get the pulse, or how long it would be, if you
> > exit LinuxCNC without turning the machine off.
> >
> > Note that oneshot has the time resolution of the thread it is in. So
> > 1mS resolution in the typical servo thread.
> > It can't run in the base thread.
> >
>
>
>
> --
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> http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
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[Emc-users] Firmware for 5i23 with 2x 7i39s and THCAD

[Viesturs Lācis]

Hello!

I would like to find out, if there already exists a firmware for 5i23,
which would have additional encoder module (preferably connected to
any of the "sense" lines, I need it for THCAD card), compared to
standard firmware for 7i39.

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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