[Emc-users] Servo replacement for stepper

2014-01-23 Thread Tomaz T .
I have rotation stage as shown on picture below, and would need some 
recommendations which servo motor to choose for replacing stepper (nema17 frame 
size). Stage has 180:1 ratio.

Picture:
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/930-large/zxr100ma-miniature-precision-rotary-stage.jpg
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread Russell Brown
Quoth Jeshua Lacock.

I figured backlash was common to just about all reasonably priced mills, and I 
was wondering what folks did with them to compensate with CNC.  

FWIW, I cnc'd my WMD30LValike reasonably priced mill using the
standard ACME screws thinking that backlash could be compensate for by
software and/or that the backlash wouldn't annoy me.

Neither was true (cutting forces push/pull the tool around the backlash
envelope creating facets on the work) and I'm now in the middle of
retro-fitting ballscrews

...which I should have done in the first place; Gawd knows there's
enough advice on that there Internet saying 'just fit ballscrews'.

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 23 January 2014 09:13:54 Russell Brown did opine:

 Quoth Jeshua Lacock.
 
 I figured backlash was common to just about all reasonably priced
 mills, and I was wondering what folks did with them to compensate with
 CNC.
 
 FWIW, I cnc'd my WMD30LValike reasonably priced mill using the
 standard ACME screws thinking that backlash could be compensate for by
 software and/or that the backlash wouldn't annoy me.
 
 Neither was true (cutting forces push/pull the tool around the backlash
 envelope creating facets on the work) and I'm now in the middle of
 retro-fitting ballscrews
 
 ...which I should have done in the first place; Gawd knows there's
 enough advice on that there Internet saying 'just fit ballscrews'.

Agreed and amen.  Unforch, the size of ball screws it takes to do that to 
my HF micromill, are made out of pure unobtainium.  The smallest I can buy 
on fleabay is 12mm and those nuts are 3x the size on the 8mm cartridge  nut 
and screw that I got one of from Steve (PMDX) a couple years ago.  There is 
not room for the 12mm screws I can get from asia in the micromill.

So, come warmer weather, I'll see if I can make a suitable container for 
the thermally molded acetal nuts per that link I reposted yesterday.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.

Microsoft is not Y2K compliant: Windows 95, 98, ... and back again to 01
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
 law-abiding citizens.

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit Gui

2014-01-23 Thread Andy Pugh


 On 23 Jan 2014, at 00:12, Mark Tucker m...@rmtucker.f2s.com wrote:
 
 I Really have a dislike for the Mouse Driven Axis Gui,

Have you looked at Touchy? 

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread Stephen Dubovsky
Tex  Steve (PMDX) have done a couple ball screw micromills.  I go to the
monthly meetings and have seen them;)  I think Tex has to machine the nut a
little to fit but they appear to work great.  Might want to drop Steve a
line again and see what they're doing if he doesn't pipe in here first.


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Thursday 23 January 2014 09:13:54 Russell Brown did opine:

  Quoth Jeshua Lacock.
 
  I figured backlash was common to just about all reasonably priced
  mills, and I was wondering what folks did with them to compensate with
  CNC.
 
  FWIW, I cnc'd my WMD30LValike reasonably priced mill using the
  standard ACME screws thinking that backlash could be compensate for by
  software and/or that the backlash wouldn't annoy me.
 
  Neither was true (cutting forces push/pull the tool around the backlash
  envelope creating facets on the work) and I'm now in the middle of
  retro-fitting ballscrews
 
  ...which I should have done in the first place; Gawd knows there's
  enough advice on that there Internet saying 'just fit ballscrews'.

 Agreed and amen.  Unforch, the size of ball screws it takes to do that to
 my HF micromill, are made out of pure unobtainium.  The smallest I can buy
 on fleabay is 12mm and those nuts are 3x the size on the 8mm cartridge  nut
 and screw that I got one of from Steve (PMDX) a couple years ago.  There is
 not room for the 12mm screws I can get from asia in the micromill.

 So, come warmer weather, I'll see if I can make a suitable container for
 the thermally molded acetal nuts per that link I reposted yesterday.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
 There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

 NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
 complete probe assembly.

 Microsoft is not Y2K compliant: Windows 95, 98, ... and back again to 01
 A pen in the hand of this president is far more
 dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
  law-abiding citizens.


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo replacement for stepper

2014-01-23 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/23/2014 04:45 AM, Tomaz T. wrote:
 I have rotation stage as shown on picture below, and would need some 
 recommendations which servo motor to choose for replacing stepper (nema17 
 frame size). Stage has 180:1 ratio.


See
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
for some decently priced servo motors.  they have both brush and
brushless.  Their size 23 brushless motors are awesome.  
Although
it seems the automationtech web site has them priced 50%
higher than the kelinginc site.  I have no idea what would 
happen if
you placed an order through the Keling site at the lower price.
My guess is they wouldn't honor that price, but I don't know.

I have PWM drives for both the brush and brushless motors.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit Gui

2014-01-23 Thread Mark Tucker
I think really what i want from a Gui is something that has no bells or 
whistles,for instance graphics while i am running the machine or 
liveplot as it is called.
Also something that is functional for a metal cutting cnc.

I have worked on Cnc machines for the best part of 35years and some of 
the screens in Linuxcnc are not really workable in that enviroment.
I wrote my own screens for mach3 but it seems near impossible in 
Linuxcnc at this point.

But i suppose i will have to get stuck in and edit or create something 
that works for me,because i sure do like machinekit.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit Gui

2014-01-23 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 1/23/2014 11:16 AM, Mark Tucker wrote:
 I think really what i want from a Gui is something that has no bells or 
 whistles,for instance graphics while i am running the machine or 
 liveplot as it is called.
 Also something that is functional for a metal cutting cnc.
 
 I have worked on Cnc machines for the best part of 35years and some of 
 the screens in Linuxcnc are not really workable in that enviroment.
 I wrote my own screens for mach3 but it seems near impossible in 
 Linuxcnc at this point.

Try the tkemc/tklinuxcnc display.  The backplot is optional:

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/tklinuxcnc.html

...and it's mostly lacking bells and whistles.  :)

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit Gui

2014-01-23 Thread Niemand Sonst


  Don't tell it is nearly impossible, as it is easier than ever bevore!
Take a look at gscreen. It has been designed specialy for that purpose!

As an example gmoccapy is based on that. If you do not want a live plot, 
it is just two steps away, as it can be deleted very easy.

Norbert

Am 23.01.2014 18:16, schrieb Mark Tucker:
 I think really what i want from a Gui is something that has no bells or
 whistles,for instance graphics while i am running the machine or
 liveplot as it is called.
 Also something that is functional for a metal cutting cnc.

 I have worked on Cnc machines for the best part of 35years and some of
 the screens in Linuxcnc are not really workable in that enviroment.
 I wrote my own screens for mach3 but it seems near impossible in
 Linuxcnc at this point.

 But i suppose i will have to get stuck in and edit or create something
 that works for me,because i sure do like machinekit.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit Gui

2014-01-23 Thread Chris Radek
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 05:16:26PM +, Mark Tucker wrote:

 I think really what i want from a Gui is something that has no bells or 
 whistles,for instance graphics while i am running the machine or 
 liveplot as it is called.
 Also something that is functional for a metal cutting cnc.

Touchy was written with these goals in mind.  It is made for use on
the panel of an industrial machine.  It does not use keyboard or
mouse, and does not use any widgets that work badly on touchscreens,
such as sliders and scrollbars.

 I have worked on Cnc machines for the best part of 35years and some of 
 the screens in Linuxcnc are not really workable in that enviroment.

We have many choices because people have different preferences.  It
is a mistake for any of us to think our preferences are universal.


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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 23 January 2014 12:43:06 Stephen Dubovsky did opine:

 Tex  Steve (PMDX) have done a couple ball screw micromills.  I go to
 the monthly meetings and have seen them;)  I think Tex has to machine
 the nut a little to fit but they appear to work great.  Might want to
 drop Steve a line again and see what they're doing if he doesn't pipe
 in here first.
 
Steve sent me an 8mmx5 that I cut down and used for the X screw in my 7x12. 
I did not modify the nut, but made a one piece cage for it I had to pry 
open a little to get it wrapped around the nut, squeezed it back shut with 
my vice, held shut by the mounting screws, and that works well.  He had 
fitted some slightly oversized balls, and said he could supply more at $XX 
per if I was interested, but a couple more attempts to get that in motion 
for at least 2 more have faded into the no reply from Steve category.  They 
are only 13 long, and with my bigger tables from LMS fitted, not long 
enough for the X even with an extension similar to what I did in the lathe.  
The Y is long enough I would move the motor to the rear to keep me from 
bruising myself as I walk by, but the X has only enough room for about a 
.700 tall nut maximum, and those flange less cartridges are .750 in 
diameter.  One might be able to polish about 30-35 thou off the sides and 
turn the recycle tubes to the side and find room that way.  My Z drive is a 
turning nut design that could be adapted to a 16mm screw fairly easily, but 
its now a 1/2 10 tpi acme with a pair of nook nuts to adjust the backlash, 
and since I added ball bearings against the post to triple the bearing 
length of the sled casting, is now working very well, backlash might be a 
thou  the stiction seems to be totally gone.  Carving a pcb just deep 
enough to cut the copper without damaging the glass under it is now 
possible.  The lack of some method to do plated holes, or a source of micro 
rivets to do the same is one of the two of my major impediments to doing 
good double sided pcb's now.  The other is lack of spindle rpms at 2500 
max, which is why I asked about those cheap chinese R8 equipt motors that 
put 12k revs in a 52mm diameter package.  But I lagged off on that when 
somebody mentioned the sloppy run-out of that R8's connection to the motor 
shaft would guarantee.

Anyway, if Steve is copying the mail here, I'd like 2 more of those.

At the moment, I am up to my formerly x-rated things in trying to restore 
an HP4815A RF Vector Voltmeter, its probe is very fragile electrically, and 
not HP repairable since back in the '87 time frame. I just bought one, 
cosmetically brand new but without the probe, I have the docs, and believe 
myself able to repair one, or make another, but that seems nigh impossible 
without way better pix than there are in a pdf, where a grad student at 
Walla Walla University tried to make one with usable but not spectacular 
results.  He didn't take near enough pictures, and the pcb's he did make I 
would have been tempted to throw away as scrap.  Apparently he had no 
access to a real probe to disect it for ideas.  I have no clue what coax 
was used in the probe cabling either, a real puzzle since the cabling they 
used was about .3 in diameter, and contained 9 coax cables in that .3, 
all matched to about 1/16 in length since the whole thing is a sampler 
with nominally 1.2ns sampling pulses.

Making it work right, from scratch, probably needs a P.R. witch doctor 
waving a specific breed of dead chicken over it.  But I'd give it a shot if 
a had one to disect that I couldn't repair.  And I think I could repair one 
if I could buy a bum one.  The problem?  A 15 volt static charge will 
destroy it.

See offer of 100 USD for one I can disect in the sig.  TBT, ebay needs a 
WTB section.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.

I selected E5 ... but I didn't hear Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs!
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
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[Emc-users] CoreXY Kins and the BeagleBoneBlack with MachineKit

2014-01-23 Thread Joe Spanier


Hey Guys, 
Im working on building a 3D printer using a CoreXY kinematic setup and was 
wanting to use the BeagleBoneBlack and the PBX-BB Cape to control it and using 
the latest version of MachineKit that was released at the end of Dec. In my 
Google searching I've found support is slim, and most of the posts point me 
back to this 
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/26302-cnc-avec-systeme-h-bot-ou-corexy
 discussion on the community forum. 

When I try to follow Andy's instructions inputting the instructions to activate 
it I get the following:
sudo comp --install core_xy_kins.c - sudo comp command not found
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev - linuxcnc-dev not found

(I also found that google translate ruins code haha)

So where I'm at now, is I cant seem to install linuxcnc-dev, and there is 
nothing in my sources for linuxcnc. I dont want to add anything and break 
MachineKit either. I haven't dove in super deep into how its built so Im not 
sure what all I can mess with.-- 
Thanks,
Joe Spanier



           No Trees were harmed in the sending of this email, but a great 
number or electrons were terribly inconvenienced 
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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread andy pugh
On 23 January 2014 15:24, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 Agreed and amen.  Unforch, the size of ball screws it takes to do that to
 my HF micromill, are made out of pure unobtainium.  The smallest I can buy
 on fleabay is 12mm

http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/miniature-ballscrews-6-12mm-diameter/38-r0801-ballscrew.html

Or maybe look at the vendors on Aliexpress?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/ball-screw/609097_211302591.html
as an example.

I used an 8mm on my lathe/mill and despite my concerns it has been
entirely adequate.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini_lathe/63621-mini_lathe_cross_slide_ballscrew_solutions-2.html#post509784



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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-23 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 23 January 2014 14:30:41 andy pugh did opine:

 On 23 January 2014 15:24, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  Agreed and amen.  Unforch, the size of ball screws it takes to do that
  to my HF micromill, are made out of pure unobtainium.  The smallest I
  can buy on fleabay is 12mm
 
 http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/miniature-ballscrews-6-12mm-diameter/
 38-r0801-ballscrew.html
 
 Or maybe look at the vendors on Aliexpress?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/ball-screw/609097_211302591.html
 as an example.
 
 I used an 8mm on my lathe/mill and despite my concerns it has been
 entirely adequate.
 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini_lathe/63621-mini_lathe_cross_slide_ba
 llscrew_solutions-2.html#post509784

Figuratively speaking Andy, you had a lot more real estate to play with 
than I did in my 7x12.

But my real question is where the heck did you buy those screws?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.

My mind can never know my body, although it has become quite friendly
with my legs.
-- Woody Allen, on Epistemology
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dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
 law-abiding citizens.

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo replacement for stepper

2014-01-23 Thread Tomaz T .
Thank you for the info, on their old page can also be found BL motors as small 
as nema17 frame size. I hope they are still available!
 

 See
 http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
 for some decently priced servo motors. they have both brush and
 brushless. Their size 23 brushless motors are awesome.
 Although
 it seems the automationtech web site has them priced 50%
 higher than the kelinginc site. I have no idea what would
 happen if
 you placed an order through the Keling site at the lower price.
 My guess is they wouldn't honor that price, but I don't know.

 I have PWM drives for both the brush and brushless motors.

 Jon 
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Re: [Emc-users] CoreXY Kins and the BeagleBoneBlack with MachineKit

2014-01-23 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 1/23/2014 12:59 PM, Joe Spanier wrote:
 
 
 Hey Guys, Im working on building a 3D printer using a CoreXY
 kinematic setup and was wanting to use the BeagleBoneBlack and the
 PBX-BB Cape to control it and using the latest version of MachineKit
 that was released at the end of Dec. In my Google searching I've
 found support is slim, and most of the posts point me back to this
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/26302-cnc-avec-systeme-h-bot-ou-corexy
 discussion on the community forum.
 
 When I try to follow Andy's instructions inputting the instructions
 to activate it I get the following: sudo comp --install
 core_xy_kins.c - sudo comp command not found sudo apt-get install
 linuxcnc-dev - linuxcnc-dev not found
 
 (I also found that google translate ruins code haha)
 
 So where I'm at now, is I cant seem to install linuxcnc-dev, and
 there is nothing in my sources for linuxcnc. I dont want to add
 anything and break MachineKit either. I haven't dove in super deep
 into how its built so Im not sure what all I can mess with.--

There's no need to install linuxcnc-dev.  The version of linuxcnc
already on the MachineKit image is a full development version setup to
run in place (RIP).  You should be be able to simply download the new
kinematics C file and build it.  I don't think you need to use sudo,
since the Xenomai build of LinuxCNC uses user-mode real-time threads.

Just drop to a command line and run the comp command.

If that doesn't get you un-stuck, post again and I'll see if I can't
reproduce your error(s) and come up with a fix.

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net



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Re: [Emc-users] CoreXY Kins and the BeagleBoneBlack with MachineKit

2014-01-23 Thread Joe Spanier
Ok Got that figured out. Turns out my first issue was the core_xy_kins.c file 
was empty, so that wasnt helping anything. But I had to drop sudo as well. 

I was able to get it compiled and I can start my config with core_xy_kins in my 
HAL. But it doesnt seem to change anything.  Moving in the x only moves the X 
motor, same for y. 

Is there something I will have to hook together in my net pins? Im guessing it 
would be similar to slaving two axes together like in gantrykins?

Again thank you for the help. 

Joe



On Thursday, January 23, 2014 5:56 PM, Charles Steinkuehler 
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:
 
On 1/23/2014 12:59 PM, Joe Spanier wrote:

 
 
 Hey Guys, Im working on building a 3D printer using a CoreXY
 kinematic setup and was wanting to use the BeagleBoneBlack and the
 PBX-BB Cape to control it and using the latest version of MachineKit
 that was released at the end of Dec. In my Google searching I've
 found support is slim, and most of the posts point me back to this
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/26302-cnc-avec-systeme-h-bot-ou-corexy
 discussion on the community forum.
 
 When I try to follow Andy's instructions inputting the instructions
 to activate it I get the following: sudo comp --install
 core_xy_kins.c - sudo comp command not found sudo apt-get install
 linuxcnc-dev - linuxcnc-dev not found
 
 (I also found that google translate ruins code haha)
 
 So where I'm at now, is I cant seem to install linuxcnc-dev, and
 there is nothing in my sources for linuxcnc. I dont want to add
 anything and break MachineKit either. I haven't dove in super deep
 into how its built so Im not sure what all I can mess with.--

There's no need to install linuxcnc-dev.  The version of linuxcnc
already on the MachineKit image is a full development version setup to
run in place (RIP).  You should be be able to simply download the new
kinematics C file and build it.  I don't think you need to use sudo,
since the Xenomai build of LinuxCNC uses user-mode real-time threads.

Just drop to a command line and run the comp command.

If that doesn't get you un-stuck, post again and I'll see if I can't
reproduce your error(s) and come up with a fix.

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
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Critical Workloads, Development Environments  Everything In Between.
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