Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[TJoseph Powderly]

jim thanks for the videos
i'm eyebrow deep in other things but have them on the todo list
tomp


On 03/11/2016 03:10 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> On 3/10/2016 9:27 AM, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
>> Jim - thanks for progressing with these videos.
>>
>> I wonder if it might be an idea to get a mic that you clip to your clothes,
>> as in the intro there's a lot of echo.
>>
>> Keep going!  John.
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> John,
>
> My shop is covered in hard surfaces with not much to absorb echo so I
> fear that echo may be present in my future recordings. I have some soft
> surfaces in my garage where I did the probe videos so echo was not so
> prevalent there.
>
> I will see what I can do.
>
> Jim
>
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[Emc-users] Hey Gene, Have you seen this?

[John Thornton]

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/20-g-code/30552-edit-g-code-with-code-folding#71390

JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[Dave Cole]

On 3/10/2016 10:18 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 10 March 2016 13:20:55 Dave Cole wrote:
>
>> On 3/10/2016 11:44 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> On 03/10/2016 01:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 This sounds like an interesting device. Are you at liberty
 to give a range of pricing for one gear and sensor combo?
>>> The Allegro ATS667LSGTN-T is $8.34 in single quantity at
>>> Digi-Key. That's what I used on my Bridgeport pickup.  I
>>> used the existing bull gear on the head as the thing to be
>>> sensed.  I did drill a small dimple on the face of the gear
>>> to provide the index pulse.
>>>
>>> Jon
>> There is no shortage of gear teeth sensors.
>> Don't overlook the fact that just about every car engine made these
>> days has one camshaft position sensor and one crankshaft position
>> sensor. They are available at your corner autoparts store and they are
>> made to run in oil.
>>
>> Dave
> Dave, you are of course correct.  But have you compared the teeth per
> inch of those driving gears, with the teeth per inch of the toy gears in
> the smallish machines I am messing around with?  And by the time it gets
> to the special order listings an NAPA or ???, its hard to justify the
> $80+ they want when you know whats in it can be had for $8.64 at onsies
> price from digikey.  And that stuff in these here parts is sold with a
> 10/10 warranty, meaning 10 seconds after you have the receipt and walked
> the 10 feet to the front door.
>
> I don't want that much skin in the game unless the specs say I'll be able
> to use it.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I've replaced a few of these devices on cars and trucks and they are 
about $20 each and I usually buy them from Autozone.
Nothing like $80.And they are oil tight. By the time you pay 
shipping and waiting for the item, I bet you have more $ into it than 
the autopart at autozone.
There was one new sensor discussed on this list about a year ago and I 
think it was made by Honeywell.

Andy, do you know of any good Ford part numbers ??   :-)

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[andy pugh]

On 11 March 2016 at 13:34, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Andy, do you know of any good Ford part numbers ??   :-)

7M5Q-6B319-BA  (£52)  is a magnetic encoder ring that looks ideal for
a lathe spindle. It has a pressed-in bush that is 70mm OD.
DS7Q-9E731-BA  (£20)  is the matching sensor.

That combination gives position and direction and uses a missing-tooth
index all on one wire.

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Hey Gene, Have you seen this?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 07:31:29 John Thornton wrote:

> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/20-g-code/30552-edit-g-code-with-code
>-folding#71390
>
> JT

Only slightly interesting since I have used geany as my goto editor since 
I had so much trouble with gedit playing 52 pickup with my code.  geany 
hasn't trashed a file that wasn't blamed on pebkac by me. gedit did it 
at least once in 10 edit sessions. I got /damned/ tired of restarting a 
600+ LOC .hal file because gedit destroyed it.

geany has highlight and error checking settings for quite a few code 
languages, and apparently can do folding at a label while working on 
an .ini file.  I just found that out yesterday after noting that some 
code I was running, and I had the stick clamped to project left of the 
vise, and which puts the table to the right about a foot, had slipped 
the X about 3/32" halfway thru the run.  I let it finish, and fixed the 
damage with a chisel.

It was a test cut in sweet gum, no great loss, as I was working on a 
routine to function as a socket cutter for a Rockler Lid Stay hinge, 
which is built to work on the edge of an S4S 1 by board, but my trim 
piece that sits on top of the edge of that board is 1.5" wide. It is 
there to hold the top ends of the cedar plank lining I'm putting in, 
with a small groove about 5/16 wide in its bottom face that the ends of 
the planks set into.

Anyway, I cleaned up the black gunk on the X ways and re-lubed them with 
Mobil Vactra 68, then decided to slow the accels and max vel on X about 
20% to put off the next occurance of that stiction.  And not knowing 
geany had folded at the [axis 0] label, I changed the Y stanza some.  
That fold was a pebkac, but a click on the [+] mark in the left margin 
fixed that.

But when I gave it up for the night out there after doing that, I came in 
here, and did a utube search for g0704, and found Hoss's ramblings about 
putting some lub facilities in a g0704.  And one thing I noted right 
away was that his machine was moving at least at 150ipm.  Mine, with 
this motor kit has never moved x or y faster than 72 ipm without x 
stalls when the table is at the end of its travel.

This kit uses 2M542 xy drivers and a 40 volt supply. I could probably 
turn the voltage up some, but what I saw Hoss's machine doing is simply 
not possible on mine.  Z, has a nema 34 motor and 80 volt controller 
running on 60 volts, and its stallable if I ask it for more than 42 ipm 
going up even with the ways loose as a goose. Lifting that 
non-counterbalanced head is hard work even for that 1600 oz motor.

Hoss's xy motors look like the same triple stack nema 23's I have, rated 
at about 470 oz/in.  So how the heck is he getting his to move that 
fast?

So I believe I now have it running dependably again, but slower rapids 
are going to add to the execution time per hinge socket carved.  Not 
counting tool changeing time, 2 of those, its 21 minutes right now. 
Probably by the time I fool around touching off x as I move the board 
strip in the vise to get to the next position to cut, close to 30 
minutes per hinge, 3 hinges.  I think I can cut that some in the Y moves 
(all this is climb cutting) by not using a fixed clearance point for the 
x retrace move, but just clear the Y face 20 thou on the x retrace move.  
#<_tool_rad> seems like enough clearance. I can do that from here, and 
will before another test run, in addition to adding the 3rd tool change 
and pecking those 3 countersink locations.

Because these hinges, at 60 oz/in friction, exert so much force on the 
wood, and only have provisions for a pair of #7 screw about 1.25" long 
thru the top, and a pair of #7 3/4" long thru the wrap-around tab, I'll 
add 3 more screws under the hinge, #8x3 fine thread drywall screws whose 
heads will be sitting flush or just below the top of the wood and hidden 
by the hinge when its placed, and 2 more of that screw to replace the 
smaller one rockler supplies. I have a sharp pointed roundover bit that 
will do a decent job of cutting that countersink, so I am tempted to add 
that to the machining just so I have a good place to aim a pilot drill 
as I'm installing all those screws while racing to get it all snugged up 
before the glues "open" time is used up, about 15 minutes, so I'll have 
to drill ALL the pilot holes first.  Fun & games I won't try when I am 
tired & hurting.

Nother not so silly Q: LCNC skips the tool change if that tool is still 
loaded from the last run.  Thats nice, but how do I add the z run up to 
the tool change height to the conditional T#M6G43, so the M6 only runs 
up the pole if it has to actually change the tool?

At 25 to 35 ipm, there's at least 30 seconds I could take back out of the 
execution time.  Thats worthwhile.

Thanks John.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Genes Web page 

[Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I posted earlier to EMC developers but it seems to have disappeared.

I have been thinking about a new protocol. Ethercat are a perfect real time 
network there data is inserted while packet is pass thru, actually it is very 
similar to cascaded shift registers although CRC is also added. I have not 
studied protocol yet but this kind of network it should be possible to put node 
sourcing/sending data at any node or vary number of nodes with exactly the same 
message circulating the network. It would however be possible to achieve 
something similar for data sent from linuxcnc if multicast is used although 
only for outputs.

I would propose to put axis position control at motor controller, advantages:
 1. Motion control would be reduced towards youtube style real time demand 
since positions could be sent beforehand and buffered.
 2. Position control could be sent to all nodes with one multicast message.
 3. If interpolation is used it would be possible to reduce number of messages.
 4. Divide outputs between several nodes would only affect real time 
performance for hopefully slow feedback.

Problem would still be the same with inputs although I think most of them have 
less demand on response time.


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

[John Thornton]

Nope it is still there...

On 3/11/2016 11:02 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> I posted earlier to EMC developers but it seems to have disappeared.
>
> I have been thinking about a new protocol. Ethercat are a perfect real time 
> network there data is inserted while packet is pass thru, actually it is very 
> similar to cascaded shift registers although CRC is also added. I have not 
> studied protocol yet but this kind of network it should be possible to put 
> node sourcing/sending data at any node or vary number of nodes with exactly 
> the same message circulating the network. It would however be possible to 
> achieve something similar for data sent from linuxcnc if multicast is used 
> although only for outputs.
>
> I would propose to put axis position control at motor controller, advantages:
>   1. Motion control would be reduced towards youtube style real time demand 
> since positions could be sent beforehand and buffered.
>   2. Position control could be sent to all nodes with one multicast message.
>   3. If interpolation is used it would be possible to reduce number of 
> messages.
>   4. Divide outputs between several nodes would only affect real time 
> performance for hopefully slow feedback.
>
> Problem would still be the same with inputs although I think most of them 
> have less demand on response time.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
> --
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> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
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[Emc-users] sim won't home problem

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

As a help to try & duplicate in the sim config, a machine that for homes 
& limits, duplicates the real machine, restricting x to +-10. and y 
to +-4. which approximates the travel I have, but when I put the 
exact same numbers into the Z, I now get messages when I try to simulate 
homing,that the shared switch for axis 2 is closed and it cannot home 
the simuated machine.  But it shows z as homed. So something is 
triggering the home switch shared simulation as it proceeds to try and 
home y, which is next in the sequence.

Do I need to do something else to the .hal files the sim uses?  The real 
machine has no problem with the exact same z data in the .ini file.

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Then I have to assume no one have any complaints about the idea.


On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:28:07 -0600
John Thornton  wrote:

> Nope it is still there...
> 
> On 3/11/2016 11:02 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I posted earlier to EMC developers but it seems to have disappeared.
> >
> > I have been thinking about a new protocol. Ethercat are a perfect real time 
> > network there data is inserted while packet is pass thru, actually it is 
> > very similar to cascaded shift registers although CRC is also added. I have 
> > not studied protocol yet but this kind of network it should be possible to 
> > put node sourcing/sending data at any node or vary number of nodes with 
> > exactly the same message circulating the network. It would however be 
> > possible to achieve something similar for data sent from linuxcnc if 
> > multicast is used although only for outputs.
> >
> > I would propose to put axis position control at motor controller, 
> > advantages:
> >   1. Motion control would be reduced towards youtube style real time demand 
> > since positions could be sent beforehand and buffered.
> >   2. Position control could be sent to all nodes with one multicast message.
> >   3. If interpolation is used it would be possible to reduce number of 
> > messages.
> >   4. Divide outputs between several nodes would only affect real time 
> > performance for hopefully slow feedback.
> >
> > Problem would still be the same with inputs although I think most of them 
> > have less demand on response time.
> >
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> > --
> > Transform Data into Opportunity.
> > Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> > Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> > Click to learn more.
> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

[Ralph Stirling]

Nobody objects to the concept of distributed motion control.
The Machinekit fork of LinuxCNC has progressed farther along
that path.  EtherCAT itself poses some of its own issues, with
expensive slave devices and intellectual property issues with
the protocol and custom hardware to implement the protocol.
LinuxCNC solves a great many real-world problems with low
cost, relatively generic hardware, so most users have not felt
a great need for distributed control like EtherCAT.  There have
been people who demonstrated LinuxCNC interoperability
with EtherCAT in the past though.  If you google "linuxcnc ethercat"
you will find references in the wiki:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EtherCatDriver

videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9rCFavFjU

and on the developer's email list:

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/10720

So it is an idea that has been around for years.

-- Ralph

From: Nicklas Karlsson [nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 10:48 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

Then I have to assume no one have any complaints about the idea.


On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:28:07 -0600
John Thornton  wrote:

> Nope it is still there...
>
> On 3/11/2016 11:02 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I posted earlier to EMC developers but it seems to have disappeared.
> >
> > I have been thinking about a new protocol. Ethercat are a perfect real time 
> > network there data is inserted while packet is pass thru, actually it is 
> > very similar to cascaded shift registers although CRC is also added. I have 
> > not studied protocol yet but this kind of network it should be possible to 
> > put node sourcing/sending data at any node or vary number of nodes with 
> > exactly the same message circulating the network. It would however be 
> > possible to achieve something similar for data sent from linuxcnc if 
> > multicast is used although only for outputs.
> >
> > I would propose to put axis position control at motor controller, 
> > advantages:
> >   1. Motion control would be reduced towards youtube style real time demand 
> > since positions could be sent beforehand and buffered.
> >   2. Position control could be sent to all nodes with one multicast message.
> >   3. If interpolation is used it would be possible to reduce number of 
> > messages.
> >   4. Divide outputs between several nodes would only affect real time 
> > performance for hopefully slow feedback.
> >
> > Problem would still be the same with inputs although I think most of them 
> > have less demand on response time.
> >
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> > --
> > Transform Data into Opportunity.
> > Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> > Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> > Click to learn more.
> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[Dave Cole]

On 3/11/2016 8:58 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 11 March 2016 at 13:34, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> Andy, do you know of any good Ford part numbers ??   :-)
> 7M5Q-6B319-BA  (£52)  is a magnetic encoder ring that looks ideal for
> a lathe spindle. It has a pressed-in bush that is 70mm OD.
> DS7Q-9E731-BA  (£20)  is the matching sensor.
>
> That combination gives position and direction and uses a missing-tooth
> index all on one wire.

Is that a wheel ABS sensor?   When searching for the sensor I get lots 
of hits with the 9E731 part of the number as a wheel sensor, but no 
direct matches.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] New protocol --> reduced real time demand

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> ... EtherCAT itself poses some of its own issues, with
> expensive slave devices and intellectual property issues with
> the protocol and custom hardware to implement the protocol.

Expensive slave device is a problem with Ethercat. In quantity it is possible 
to get a good micro controller from around one dollar and upwards.

> LinuxCNC solves a great many real-world problems with low
> cost, relatively generic hardware, so most users have not felt
> a great need for distributed control ...

There are at least some more or less distributed protocols. What make 
distributed control interesting are these cheap micro controllers with special 
purpose peripherals for closed loop servo control. These micro controllers 
however usually only have support for one or two servo motors so distributed 
control is needed.

For outputs it is possible to get similar perfomance as in ethercat by 
multicasting messages to all nodes at once on a dedicated communication path. 
For inputs however there are collisions or a need for more communication 
channels but if need for high speed feedback is removed lower perfomance in 
this direction could be accepted.


For short distance SPI for output with only SCK/MOSI signals with a rate of 
around 15Mbit/s and for inputs UART connected in ring could do the trick very 
cheap. If message is echoed around the ring there would be no collisions for 
the price of some delay for many nodes.


> > > I have been thinking about a new protocol. Ethercat are a perfect real 
> > > time network there data is inserted while packet is pass thru, actually 
> > > it is very similar to cascaded shift registers although CRC is also 
> > > added. I have not studied protocol yet but this kind of network it should 
> > > be possible to put node sourcing/sending data at any node or vary number 
> > > of nodes with exactly the same message circulating the network. It would 
> > > however be possible to achieve something similar for data sent from 
> > > linuxcnc if multicast is used although only for outputs.
> > >
> > > I would propose to put axis position control at motor controller, 
> > > advantages:
> > >   1. Motion control would be reduced towards youtube style real time 
> > > demand since positions could be sent beforehand and buffered.
> > >   2. Position control could be sent to all nodes with one multicast 
> > > message.
> > >   3. If interpolation is used it would be possible to reduce number of 
> > > messages.
> > >   4. Divide outputs between several nodes would only affect real time 
> > > performance for hopefully slow feedback.
> > >
> > > Problem would still be the same with inputs although I think most of them 
> > > have less demand on response time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicklas Karlsson

Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[andy pugh]

On 11 March 2016 at 19:52, Dave Cole  wrote:

> Is that a wheel ABS sensor?

No, a crank position sensor.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 08:58:13 andy pugh wrote:

> On 11 March 2016 at 13:34, Dave Cole  wrote:
> > Andy, do you know of any good Ford part numbers ??   :-)
>
> 7M5Q-6B319-BA  (£52)  is a magnetic encoder ring that looks ideal for
> a lathe spindle. It has a pressed-in bush that is 70mm OD.

How large is the ring itself?

> DS7Q-9E731-BA  (£20)  is the matching sensor.
>
> That combination gives position and direction and uses a missing-tooth
> index all on one wire.

One wire?  How hard is that to handle in a .hal file?
 
Thanks Andy.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[andy pugh]

On 11 March 2016 at 22:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>> 7M5Q-6B319-BA  (£52)  is a magnetic encoder ring that looks ideal for
>> a lathe spindle. It has a pressed-in bush that is 70mm OD.
>
> How large is the ring itself?

Probably 100mm.

> One wire?  How hard is that to handle in a .hal file?

Very. It would need significant changes to the software encoder
counter, but missing-tooth index isn't a terrible idea for some
applications.
In practice when the idea was first used it wasn't actually a missing
tooth on the starter ring-gear it was a slightly shorter tooth, and
that is something you could probably afford to do to a lathe bull-gear
(maybe not full width)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Random quesion in regards to a gear sensor (maybe JonE)

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 March 2016 17:23:14 andy pugh wrote:

> On 11 March 2016 at 22:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> 7M5Q-6B319-BA  (£52)  is a magnetic encoder ring that looks ideal
> >> for a lathe spindle. It has a pressed-in bush that is 70mm OD.
> >
> > How large is the ring itself?
>
> Probably 100mm.
>
4", too big to hide in anything I have.

> > One wire?  How hard is that to handle in a .hal file?
>
> Very. It would need significant changes to the software encoder
> counter, but missing-tooth index isn't a terrible idea for some
> applications.

I would think there might be some count loss in a reversal in the middle 
of a turn.  But in an iC engine, the chances of it turning backwards 
while running boggles my mind.

> In practice when the idea was first used it wasn't actually a missing
> tooth on the starter ring-gear it was a slightly shorter tooth, and
> that is something you could probably afford to do to a lathe bull-gear
> (maybe not full width)

True. but that bull gear is still less than 2" OD in the lathe.

I've not rx'd a reply from AllegroMicro yet, probably won't if it hasn't 
appeared by now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] That TTS to er20 adapter package we all jumped on.

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Since that guy has shut down the link, out of them I assume, I am 
wondering if anyone else has a link to that Yusingtool (TTS style) C3/4 
to ER20 package?  I'd like to buy another 10 pack of them.  They were 
plenty good enough for the girls I go with. :)

Also looking for 5 packs of 1/8 and 1/4" er20 collets, everything else 
thats common I have a surplus of.  Everyone wants to sell you a 13 pack, 
11 of which will never be used on this side of the pond, for at least 
$24 & change USD with the high priced spread versions running north of 
$150 USD. :(

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] That TTS to er20 adapter package we all jumped on.

[Bruce Layne]

Your eBay-foo is weak, old man.  :-)

The ER20 collet holders seem to be going for $160 per ten pack, 
delivered from Asia.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281924305409

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252015116411



1/8" ER20 collets for $1.96 each with free shipping, from Asia:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301728449321

1/8" ER20 collets for $1.96 each with free shipping, from Asia:

www.ebay.com/itm/141850497084



If you're in a hurry on the collets, and/or want better quality, the 
precision versions are $7 or $8 each from US sellers:

www.ebay.com/itm/281560917846

www.ebay.com/itm/272164567801



On 03/11/2016 10:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> Since that guy has shut down the link, out of them I assume, I am
> wondering if anyone else has a link to that Yusingtool (TTS style) C3/4
> to ER20 package?  I'd like to buy another 10 pack of them.  They were
> plenty good enough for the girls I go with. :)
>
> Also looking for 5 packs of 1/8 and 1/4" er20 collets, everything else
> thats common I have a surplus of.  Everyone wants to sell you a 13 pack,
> 11 of which will never be used on this side of the pond, for at least
> $24 & change USD with the high priced spread versions running north of
> $150 USD. :(
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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