[Emc-users] Question on Renishaw MP3 IR probe

[hubert]

Does anybody know what batteries a Renishaw MP3 IR probe with a round 
battery compartment uses.  All the current literature shows a 
compartment with 2 9-volt batteries.
Thanks

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[Emc-users] End of the day, Q's about 5i25

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;
I have found 5 of the signals on this strange bob, the only 5 in this 
simple config.  So I have faith I can find the others as I need them.

To say that this board is scrambled is a bit of an understatement.

This vfd's little booklet I have does show a potential rs232 port, but 
the socket is not to be found.  So I am stuck running it with a pwmgen 
pulsing the 5 volt analog in (pin 3) at a high enough rate it integrates 
to analog in its noise filters.  The vendor has assured me that works 
fine.

I am however, wondering if the pwmgen has more than one default mode, as 
this vfd needs 2 separate run-fwd (pin 8) and run-reverse (pin 9) input 
lines in addition to the analog 0-5 volt speed command. If it had a mode 
where it grabbed pins 15 and 17 for those two run signals, it would save 
some hal trickery.  Is there such a mode?

It does have a 5V Fout (pin 6) but does not say if its a pulse frequency 
at motor drive, or an integrated analog voltage.  In either event, I do 
not believe its 5i25 compatible, but might be able to drive a separate 
dual slope integrating voltmeter if it was range calibrateable to show 
freq or rpms.  That would give the operator, me, feedback on when it was 
time to change belts or backgears.  Sitting on the table, running free, 
I'd say mininum drive hz in any 5 minute period should not be less than 
30 hz as the vfd can throttle the current, but it throttles it at about 
what a 1.5 horse motor would draw at rated speed at full load, IOW its 
warming up the coils of a 1 horse rated motor.  With fresh bearings in 
it, I have run it up to 200Hz, (4 pole motors, so thats about 6 grand & 
I worry about the fins on the fan) but I doubt it has usable torque as 
the current draw is well under an amp/phase then. Same effect on power 
that the inductance of a stepper causes. I'll no doubt find out when I 
do load it up.

It would be nice if a firmware for it could be cobbled up as 4 axis + 1 
encoder & one pwmgen on P3, and a menu of serial ports on P2.  That 
would make a one size fits a lot more board for sure.  I'd like to be 
able to talk to it and get usable data from someplace besides the 
encoder.

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 27 September 2016 13:19:49 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 09/27/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:
> >> The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
> >> anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it
> >> feasible to make your own IMM module?
> >
> > I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a
> > large amount of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled,
> > but radio coupled just to get above the frequency of the machines
> > own noises.
>
> Yes, it seems Blum and Renishaw have moved to RF
> communication, and seem to be in the 800 MHz to GHz bands!
> I guess the problem is no matter where you put the IR
> transceiver, somebody would end up putting an obstruction in
> the way, and then you break the probe tip. I did rig the
> loss of signal watchdog to stop the machine, and it seems
> like a really good idea.
>
> Jon
>
We are in what I've been known to call violent agreement on that point 
Jon. I recall now, about 2 years back, Dee  buzzed me on the intercom 
thats part of our basket of wireless phones here, in a total panic, 
wanted fresh batteries in the remote as she was missing one of her fav 
game shows.  On my arrival with a pocketfull of batteries, the first 
thing I noticed was she had set something in front of the tv's IR 
window.  I reached over and handed it back to her & told her to try it 
again.  Of course it worked, much to her amazement, it had never been 
grokked that if she couldn't see that window, she didn't have a remote.  
OTOH, she had cataracts removed from both eyes since, and its entirely 
possible she could not see that little black square in the bottom of the 
black face frame.  She sure can now.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Ken Strauss]

Hmmm. That is exactly the same scheme used many years ago with the centrifugal 
governor to control a DC motor on an Arriflex movie camera. When the motor ran 
above the set speed the contacts shorted a coil on the rotating assembly which 
in turn reduced the power to the motor.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 2:49 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to
> interface ?
>
> On 27 September 2016 at 19:09, Ken Strauss 
> wrote:
>
> > I have no idea if this is the actual scheme used with the MP3.
>
>
> The MP3 is much simpler. There is a coil (possibly with a ferrite core) that 
> is
> completed by the probe contacts.
> That is in resonance with the detector when the probe contacts are closed, 
> and
> not when they are not.
>
> I assume there is the rest of an LC bridge circuit in the transmitter, an 
> oscillator,
> precision (op-amp) rectifier and level detector.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for
> the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[andy pugh]

On 27 September 2016 at 19:09, Ken Strauss  wrote:

> I have no idea if this is the actual scheme used with the MP3.


The MP3 is much simpler. There is a coil (possibly with a ferrite core)
that is completed by the probe contacts.
That is in resonance with the detector when the probe contacts are closed,
and not when they are not.

I assume there is the rest of an LC bridge circuit in the transmitter, an
oscillator, precision (op-amp) rectifier and level detector.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Ken Strauss]

What was the source for your connector? The cord halves are on eBay but what 
about the chassis piece?
> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:41 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to
> interface ?
>
> On 27 September 2016 at 18:30, Sarah Armstrong
>  > wrote:
>
> > I,m contemplating modifying mine to 2.4ghz and then implementing my
> > own protocol,
>
>
> I just converted mine to a "magsafe"  style connection. (in case I turned 
> the
> spindle on by mistake)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for
> the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Ken Strauss]

A major advantage of the inductively coupled probes is that there is no need
for a battery in the probe.  Also, there is no possible interference from
other probes in the same shop (not a problem here!). The real driver for me
is that they appear to be considerably more common on the used market than
either the direct connect or the optically coupled flavours. The bad news is
that an IMM plus MI5 interface unit costs more than a probe. I don't know
what they do in the MP3 with IMM but WO 1995007521 A1 issued to Renishaw in
1995 describes a little of one system:
Power is transmitted from the interface to the probe in the form of a 60kHz
carrier. Data from the probe back to the interface is transmitted in a data
band extending from approximately 500kHz to 5MHz. Commands are transmitted
in a command band which is narrower than the data band and is centred around
a 210kHz carrier.

I have no idea if this is the actual scheme used with the MP3.
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 11:37 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to
> interface ?
>
> On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
> > anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible
> > to make your own IMM module?
>
> I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a large
amount
> of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled, but radio coupled
just to
> get above the frequency of the machines own noises. I'd have to assume
> something that used a very high carrier frequency just to get above all
the
> harmonics of the pwm and stepper pulsing noises. Any great amount of power
> would require it be put, frequency-wise, is some band the fcc or whatever
> control agency is governing your locale, has allocated for that.  That
wants to
> point at bluetooth.  Bluetooth stuff has a range of 10 feet or so, but
thats so
> noisy it would require you to invent your own protocol just so nearby
computer
> mice and keyboards wouldn't have the right checksums of their packets to
> register.  But it is by now a well developed, cheap technology.  And I've
no clue
> what the latency would be, but quite likely much more than a direct
electrical
> contact would have.
>
> I debounce 2 servo cycles, so thats a 3 millisecond lag worst case which
means I
> double touch, the second at low feed speed.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Bengt Sjölund]

Anybody interested, I have one Renishaw MI 14 MK3  for sale/trade. 
Condition unknown, was included in a package deal years ago.
Labeled: This a MK3 MI 14 use only with a MK3 RMP

Located in Sweden

Cheers
Bengt


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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Jim Craig]

I have used xbee modules before for wireless point to point 
communication. Works well and pretty simple to use.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XB24-AWI-001/XB24-AWI-001-ND/935965?WT.mc_id=IQ_7595_G_pla935965&wt.srch=1&wt.medium=cpc&WT.srch=1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwsai_BRC30KH347fjksoBEiQAoiaqsYm-WHZ4nBp_CZFsky8FzKPdtgjM_CXUeXLqlWbNCqMaAsF68P8HAQ

On 9/27/2016 12:30 PM, Sarah Armstrong wrote:
> I,m contemplating modifying mine to 2.4ghz and then implementing my own 
> protocol, I've got some code already that has infra red to WiFi out, so that 
> might do as the catalyst starter code and make a new pcb for the probe and 
> just do away with all the infrared.
>
> Sent from BlueMail
>
>
>
> On 27 Sep 2016, 18:25, at 18:25, Jon Elson  wrote:
>> On 09/27/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:
>>>
 The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
 anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible
 to make your own IMM module?
>>> I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a
>> large
>>> amount of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled, but
>> radio
>>> coupled just to get above the frequency of the machines own noises.
>> Yes, it seems Blum and Renishaw have moved to RF
>> communication, and seem to be in the 800 MHz to GHz bands!
>> I guess the problem is no matter where you put the IR
>> transceiver, somebody would end up putting an obstruction in
>> the way, and then you break the probe tip. I did rig the
>> loss of signal watchdog to stop the machine, and it seems
>> like a really good idea.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[andy pugh]

On 27 September 2016 at 18:30, Sarah Armstrong  wrote:

> I,m contemplating modifying mine to 2.4ghz and then implementing my own
> protocol,


I just converted mine to a "magsafe"  style connection. (in case I turned
the spindle on by mistake)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Sarah Armstrong]

I,m contemplating modifying mine to 2.4ghz and then implementing my own 
protocol, I've got some code already that has infra red to WiFi out, so that 
might do as the catalyst starter code and make a new pcb for the probe and just 
do away with all the infrared.

Sent from BlueMail



On 27 Sep 2016, 18:25, at 18:25, Jon Elson  wrote:
>On 09/27/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:
>>
>>> The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
>>> anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible
>>> to make your own IMM module?
>> I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a
>large
>> amount of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled, but
>radio
>> coupled just to get above the frequency of the machines own noises.
>Yes, it seems Blum and Renishaw have moved to RF 
>communication, and seem to be in the 800 MHz to GHz bands!  
>I guess the problem is no matter where you put the IR 
>transceiver, somebody would end up putting an obstruction in 
>the way, and then you break the probe tip. I did rig the 
>loss of signal watchdog to stop the machine, and it seems 
>like a really good idea.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Jon Elson]

On 09/27/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
>> The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
>> anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible
>> to make your own IMM module?
> I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a large
> amount of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled, but radio
> coupled just to get above the frequency of the machines own noises.
Yes, it seems Blum and Renishaw have moved to RF 
communication, and seem to be in the 800 MHz to GHz bands!  
I guess the problem is no matter where you put the IR 
transceiver, somebody would end up putting an obstruction in 
the way, and then you break the probe tip. I did rig the 
loss of signal watchdog to stop the machine, and it seems 
like a really good idea.

Jon



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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 27 September 2016 09:29:47 Ken Strauss wrote:

> The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has
> anyone had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible
> to make your own IMM module?

I'd have to say you could, but these machines are generators of a large 
amount of magnetic noise. So I'd say not magnetically coupled, but radio 
coupled just to get above the frequency of the machines own noises. I'd 
have to assume something that used a very high carrier frequency just to 
get above all the harmonics of the pwm and stepper pulsing noises. Any 
great amount of power would require it be put, frequency-wise, is some 
band the fcc or whatever control agency is governing your locale, has 
allocated for that.  That wants to point at bluetooth.  Bluetooth stuff 
has a range of 10 feet or so, but thats so noisy it would require you to 
invent your own protocol just so nearby computer mice and keyboards 
wouldn't have the right checksums of their packets to register.  But it 
is by now a well developed, cheap technology.  And I've no clue what the 
latency would be, but quite likely much more than a direct electrical 
contact would have.

I debounce 2 servo cycles, so thats a 3 millisecond lag worst case which 
means I double touch, the second at low feed speed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Ken Strauss]

The discussion has been regarding the optically coupled probe. Has anyone
had success with the inductively coupled ones? Is it feasible to make your
own IMM module?
> -Original Message-
> From: hubert [mailto:h...@hbahr.org]
> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to
> interface ?
>
> I've also ordered some of the QSE159s plus some of the recommended LED's
to
> go with them.  My probe is due in tomorrow but the testing will have to
wait
> since it appears my new SkyFire LinuxCNC machine has turned into a kit
instead
> of ready to run.  I miss measured my Door opening to my shop.  This Mill
will
> not go in fully assembled, so it has to be taken apart and reassembled
once the
> pieces have been moved into my shop.  Not quite as much labor as
retrofitting
> a manual mill, but it will definitely get me close and personal to all the
> components.
>
>
> On 9/25/16 7:48 AM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > I believe that Jon Elson suggested the QSE159. Digikey has it in stock
> > for about $1.50. It includes a Schmidt trigger for noise immunity and
> > the datasheet doesn't mention anything about bandpass filtering.
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Sarah Armstrong [mailto:sarahj.armstron...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:24 AM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know
> >> how to interface ?
> >>
> >> anyone suggest a better infra red detector than the AX-1838HS
> >>
> >> as i see it's band pass is just about centered on 38Khz , and if i am
> > correct these
> >> probes are around 100 - 150Khz so i'll need something better , iv'e
> >> not
> > done
> >> much with Infra-red , so if you parden the pun , i'm in the dark ! lol
"
> >>
> >> iv'e found a remote in the house that actually activates the probe ,
> >> and
> > starts it
> >> . so thats something close . but i'm wondering if just about any
> >> sender
> > would
> >> do it , as it's working on a carrier rather than code
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 23 September 2016 at 13:07, Ken Strauss 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Looking at the drawing that Sarah was kind enough to supply, the
> >>> Renishaw
> >>> MP10
> >>> is about 5 inches plus the probe. That wouldn't be too bad to fit on
> >>> my Tormach 770 which is a mid-sized hobby machine.
> >>>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
>  Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:49 PM
>  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know
>  how
> >>> to
>  interface ?
> 
>  On 22 September 2016 at 16:02, Ken Strauss
>  
>  wrote:
> 
> > I've never handled a MP3 so...
> > Most of the MP3 probes listed on eBay include a CAT40 or CAT50
> > taper.
> > Is this easily removable? If removable what is the native shank
> > for a MP3?
> >
>  Yes. The probe mounts to the shank with 4 screws and then a ball in
>  the probe fits in a hole in the shank. The screws don't pull up
>  tight, you adjust
> >>> them
>  like a
>  4-jaw chuck to centre the probe tip.
> 
>  I used a BT30 boring-bar adaptor (they are cheaper than metal from
>  eBay)
> >>> and
>  fitted a adaptor to increase the diameter enough for the screws:
>  https://goo.gl/photos/sRDrZbNsnT3z1tuN9
> 
>  The MP3 is not a particularly small probe. If you have a tiny
>  machine
> >>> then
>  you
>  might want something littler.
> 
> 
>  --
>  atp
>  "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>  designed
> >>> for
>  the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
>  - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>  
> >>> --
>  ___
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>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> --
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> The information contained in this message is confidential and is
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> > for
> >> the addressee only. If you have received this message in error or
> >> there
> > are any
> >> problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised
> >> use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly
forbidden.
> > This mail
> >> and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving
> >> the RcTechnix network. RcTechnix will not be l

Re: [Emc-users] Possible pncconf error?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 27 September 2016 00:38:04 Dewey Garrett wrote:

> > check_config: ERROR
> >  (Using identity kinematics: trivkins)
> >  [JOINT_1]MIN_LIMIT > [AXIS_Z]MIN_LIMIT (-200.0 > -1e99)
> >  [JOINT_1]MAX_LIMIT < [AXIS_Z]MAX_LIMIT (800.0 < 1e99)
>
> I believe this is due to a bug in pncconf dating from its
> conversion for joints_axes.  For XZ lathe configs, an [AXIS_Y]
> section was created instead of the required [AXIS_Z].  With no
> valid [AXIS_Z] section, system default values for MIN_LIMIT,
> MAX_LIMIT are used leading to an error when the config is
> checked by check_config() in the linuxcnc script that looks
> for inconsistencies in joints/axes limits for machines using
> known identity kinematics (trivkins)..
>
> I pushed a fix to the master branch (lightly tested):
>
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=a055cb10e
>8d12595c9a004e299fe8a36fdad0b17

So I'll get that as soon as the buildbot makes it? Good. In the meantime 
I fixed mine by editing the init and putting a Z where the Y was.  Then 
it yelled about my maxvels and step timings.  But its running enough to 
exercise this BoB's pins.  Which was/is the point at this stage. :)

I put the saddle back on yesterday, fitting a full length brass bar for a 
front gib. If the unworn and somewhat rougher finish behind the front 
V-way can be believed, the bed is worn about 5 thou nearest the chuck.  
Assuming I did not get all the paint off the bottom of the front lip, I 
can feel an extra pound or so's drag down toward the tailstock, so I 
think its as good as its going to get in my remaining lifetime. And 
installed the x screw temporarily. I need to get it out of the way again 
after I mark it to cut to length, and install a bit of plastic to fill 
the 1/8" gap at the rear of the opening below the screw in the saddle 
where my swag on length of thin alu needed there to block swarf access 
from the bottom should an air hose blow some that direction. I already 
have the top of the crossfeed covered with a much more substantial 1/8" 
plate.

And while it is out again, put a couple flats on the shaft where the 
pulleys setscrews can mark it up without the marks wrecking the pulley 
bore when its taken apart again.  And drill and tap to install those 
setscrews in the hub I made.  Then all I'll need is the correct legth 
belt, and the mechanical part of the x ball screw drive is done. I can 
finally actually see some progress.  Hooray & all that. :)

Thanks Dewey.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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