Re: [Emc-users] New stepper-servo --> Phase delay

[Danny Miller]

The SPI comm of course has latency within a comm period.

However, the pulse output must be super-fast.  It supports up to 14500 
rpm, so if it's 2000steps/rev the whole step cycle is 2ms, realistically 
like maybe 1/4 of that for latency?

Danny

On 10/19/2016 11:34 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> ... The lag also seemed to vary with velocity.
>>>
>>>
>> Most specifically, it was a lag in the encoder's loop to respond to
>> acceleration.
>> Velocity was fine, but when there is acceleration, the encoder's
>> velocity didn't change for a few milliseconds, then it had to produce
>> velocity greater than real for position to catch up.
>> I thought it was a really severe problem, but it seems it may not be all
>> that bad.  But, it can make servo tuning more tricky.
>>
>> Jon
> Delay is called phase in control theory and it is not good at all for fast 
> response.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Wat OT: Question about injection molding of PVC

[Kirk Wallace]

On 10/20/2016 06:15 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
... snip
> If it was wavy then they were probably having quality issues. The OD is
> the critical thing with PVC pipe that uses glued socket fittings.
... snip

I have noticed the same ID thing with PVC pipe here. The OD is very 
accurate, straight and smooth. The ID isn't quite as good and can be off 
center. Normally, it isn't obvious but is noticeable when machining.


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[Emc-users] gmoccapy

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I probably should have sent this to the emc-users list in the first 
place...

The *buntu references have disappeared when it was copied to the configs 
tree.

But nothing else has changed, so here is a paste of its startup output:

gene@coyote:~/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy$ linuxcnc -l
LINUXCNC - 2.7.7-39-gcddff75
Machine configuration directory 
is '/home/gene/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy'
Machine configuration file is 'gmoccapy_lathe_imperial.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Found file(lib): /usr/share/linuxcnc/hallib/core_sim.hal
Note: Using POSIX non-realtime
Found file(REL): ./spindle_sim.hal
Found file(lib): /usr/share/linuxcnc/hallib/simulated_home.hal
 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  
 Preference file 
path: /home/gene/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy/gmoccapy_lathe_imperial.pref
[]
/usr/bin/gmoccapy:236: GtkWarning: Invalid icon size 48

  self.widgets.window1.show()
task: main loop took 0.094805 seconds
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 gmoccapy screen 2 found 
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 Invalid embeded tab configuration 
 No tabs will be added! 
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 audio available! 
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 No virtual keyboard installed, we checked for  and 
.
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 no valid probe config in INI File 
 disabled tool measurement 
 GMOCCAPY INFO: Gcode.lang found 

(gmoccapy:28507): GtkSourceView-CRITICAL **: 
gtk_source_language_manager_set_search_path: assertion `lm->priv->ids == 
NULL' failed
 GMOCCAPY INFO : inifile 
= /home/gene/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy/gmoccapy_lathe_imperial.ini 
:
 GMOCCAPY INFO : postgui halfile = gmoccapy_postgui.hal :

So what do I need to do, after I've read the fine manual, to fix the 
reported errors/warnings? I have real keyboards for instance.

In the settings screen, all keyboard related checkboxes are greyed out. 
The Fine Manual mentions  but doesn't say what section it 
belongs in or even an example other than a bash script to set the 
keyboard profile and language.  I'm going to install the matchbox 
virtual, and see if it can find it. But synaptic wants to update enough
stuff I might as well reboot because kmail is in the list of replaced 
packages.

Thanks everybody.

I have since this original post, installed the matchbox-keyboard package.  
It finds that on startup, however a couple lines later:

No option 'show_keyboard_on_file_selection' in section: 'DEFAULT'

but I can now check the checkboxes for keyboard use, and they seem to 
work. But I can't get a file selection requester except in the  jump to  
option in the settings.

But it doesn't name the faulty file, and a grep -R for DEFAULT in the 
config directory does not find a [DEFAULT] section.

So where/which file do I add this [DEFAULT] section?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Wat OT: Question about injection molding of PVC

[Dave Cole]

All of the PVC Pipe I have seen has been extruded.PEX pipe is also 
extruded.  I'm sure that black poly pipe/tubing used for sprinkler 
systems is also extruded. Plastic extrusions are very common because it 
is a very cheap way to make a profile plastic product, once the machine 
is setup.  But its a continuous process

Google "PVC Pipe Extrusion" and you will see some machines and videos.
Here is a big one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcBv_JvFDBI

If it was wavy then they were probably having quality issues. The OD is 
the critical thing with PVC pipe that uses glued socket fittings.
Schedule 80 is only a little heavier than schedule 40 in smaller diameters.

I've done work on extruders and plastics equipment controls.

Molding by spinning is frequently called rotomolding or rotary molding. 
   Many plastic Kayaks are rotomolded as are a lot of larger plastic tanks.

Dave

On 10/20/2016 8:00 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Is schedule 40 (or 80) extruded?  I don't think most of what I've used is.  
> While the outside is smooth the inner surface is usually a little wavy and 
> irregular, like it may have been spun in a mold???
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dave Cole" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:49:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wat OT: Question about injection molding of PVC
>
> Ive never seen it poured.However think of all of the things that are
> extruded out of PVC in high volume.
> PVC pipe, gutter, fence posts, window frames, vinyl siding and trim.
> The trick will probably be finding a place that extrudes PVC in small
> quantities.   Most of the plastic pipe plants around here have silos
> outside of the plant full of PVC resin pellets ready to be fed into an
> extruder.Some of these silos are 30-50 feet tall.   The high volume
> plants usually have a pneumatic conveying system to deliver the PVC
> pellets to the extruders. Once they start up an extruder it typically
> runs 24x7 until they are done with that run.
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/19/2016 4:46 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>> 2016-10-17 9:50 GMT-03:00 craig :
>>
>>> I don;t know  what resources you have there.
>>>
>>> Minimum equipment approach
>>>
>>> 1 Heat the plastic and pour the rectangular shape oversize, Possibly
>>> flattening down  and spread it out as
>>> you do.   (How much it spreads naturally will be dependent on both
>>> material and surface temperature.
>>>If you have a big enough machine you want to use it to control the
>>> pour path.
>>> 2 cut off the edges and recycle the material  with mill or saw.
>>> 3. mill the top if the flattening does not leave the right height.
>>> 4 possibly heat polish (slightly melt the surface) the form if glossy
>>> surface it more important than sharp rectangular edges.
>>>
>>> You may want to reverse steps 2 and 3 and heat  polish the top for a
>>> glossy surface before cutting the edges.
>>>
>> Is it possible to pour PVC as you would do with molten metal? I mean
>> because of the viscosity of the plastic at that temperature I always
>> thought the only solution is to apply pressure wheter extruding it or
>> injecting it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? (ordinary <--> real time)

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> On 20 October 2016 at 16:44, Nicklas Karlsson
>  wrote:
> >
> > You said no but write as yes. To put the motion planner on separate 
> > computer is what I am looking at. The there would be no real time demand on 
> > ordinary computer. I suspect these cheap development boards could do the 
> > trick.
> 
> 
> I thought your plan was to run LinuxCNC on the x86 part of the Udoo
> and hard-realtime on the Arduino part.
> If that isn't the plan, why use the Udoo rather than, for example, a CHIP?

The real time part on a small simple computer and the GUI on ordinary computer 
is my plan.

I am still working with drivers, for some reason there is almost one motor of 
every kind: stepper, DC, BLDC, PMSM and different angle sensors. To make it 
even worse I had to make sparc generator for EDM.

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? (ordinary <--> real time)

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2016 at 16:44, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
>
> You said no but write as yes. To put the motion planner on separate computer 
> is what I am looking at. The there would be no real time demand on ordinary 
> computer. I suspect these cheap development boards could do the trick.


I thought your plan was to run LinuxCNC on the x86 part of the Udoo
and hard-realtime on the Arduino part.
If that isn't the plan, why use the Udoo rather than, for example, a CHIP?

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? (ordinary <--> real time)

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> >> I think I lost interest when I found something I didn't like about the
> >> interface between the PC and the Arduino from a real-time
> >> point-of-view.
> >
> > Pretty much every discussion of a split system has recognised that the
> > whole intent is to contain real-time processes entirely on one machine
> > (whether single or multiple core), so AIUI, only semi-real-time commands
> > would need to be sent across.
> 
> I was looking to have a LinuxCNC-like system with the Arduino doing
> Mesa/Pico-like work and LinuxCNC running as normal.
> I was not looking to offload the whole motion planner to the Arduino.
> So, in that architecture, you do need a realtime link between LinuxCNC
> and the hard-realtime system.

You said no but write as yes. To put the motion planner on separate computer is 
what I am looking at. The there would be no real time demand on ordinary 
computer. I suspect these cheap development boards could do the trick.

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2016 at 13:36, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
>
>> I think I lost interest when I found something I didn't like about the
>> interface between the PC and the Arduino from a real-time
>> point-of-view.
>
> Pretty much every discussion of a split system has recognised that the
> whole intent is to contain real-time processes entirely on one machine
> (whether single or multiple core), so AIUI, only semi-real-time commands
> would need to be sent across.

I was looking to have a LinuxCNC-like system with the Arduino doing
Mesa/Pico-like work and LinuxCNC running as normal.
I was not looking to offload the whole motion planner to the Arduino.
So, in that architecture, you do need a realtime link between LinuxCNC
and the hard-realtime system.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 20.10.16 12:41, andy pugh wrote:
> On 20 October 2016 at 10:55, Erik Christiansen  
> wrote:
> > Mix in a Udoo X86 board as the interface host? (It all stays small and
> > low-power.)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSYsShm69o
> 
> I bought a Udoo as part of the Kickstarter, and have had it for quite
> a long time now.
> I did try to get an RT-PREEMPT kernel running on it, but I can't
> remember if I ever got it working.

Was the graphics as responsive as promoted, just as a desktop host?
Then it'd be an option for the UI half of the sandwich, with BBB as the
other, I figure. (Neither is the whole meal.)

> I think I lost interest when I found something I didn't like about the
> interface between the PC and the Arduino from a real-time
> point-of-view.

Pretty much every discussion of a split system has recognised that the
whole intent is to contain real-time processes entirely on one machine
(whether single or multiple core), so AIUI, only semi-real-time commands
would need to be sent across.

> (That and I have too many projects and didn't need the Udoo for anything)

A surfeit of projects isn't the luxury it's cracked up to be. It's a
bugger getting any of them finished.

Erik
(Better send this now. I think we lost a phase. The lights are dim, and
the ADSL modem had to reboot. These storms seem to be sweeping in
weekly now, but each tree can fall only once.)

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Re: [Emc-users] Keystick and xemc

[Erik Friesen]

I had considered using one for a springboard for a haas/pro gui, but
not sure what I'll do at this point.  If any of you have ever used a
haas control, I think you won't be completely happy with most of the
gui's available, although gmoccapy is alright.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:
> On 10/18/2016 03:13 PM, Erik Friesen wrote:
>> Is nml close enough to integrate without breaking compile on master?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:40 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
>>> On 18 October 2016 at 20:30, Erik Friesen  wrote:
 Does anyone know where the source is for Keystick and xemc?  I don't
 see it under linuxcnc-master/src/emc/usr_intf or anywhere else.
>>>
>>> They were removed from Master, but can still be found in older branches:
>>> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=src/emc/usr_intf;h=4a4ba42f4673e94f168b6288024d97d3649baeed;hb=refs/heads/2.6
>
> I'm not sure what this question is asking.
>
> xemc and keystick were removed in master because they needed
> maintenance, and a a call-for-maintainers did not result in anyone
> stepping forward.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-developers/thread/20151221024211.GF92296%40unpythonic.net/#msg34710198
>
> If you'd like to help maintain either or both of these GUIs, i'd be
> happy to help point you in the right direction.
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Wat OT: Question about injection molding of PVC

[Todd Zuercher]

Is schedule 40 (or 80) extruded?  I don't think most of what I've used is.  
While the outside is smooth the inner surface is usually a little wavy and 
irregular, like it may have been spun in a mold???

- Original Message -
From: "Dave Cole" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:49:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wat OT: Question about injection molding of PVC

Ive never seen it poured.However think of all of the things that are 
extruded out of PVC in high volume.
PVC pipe, gutter, fence posts, window frames, vinyl siding and trim.
The trick will probably be finding a place that extrudes PVC in small 
quantities.   Most of the plastic pipe plants around here have silos 
outside of the plant full of PVC resin pellets ready to be fed into an 
extruder.Some of these silos are 30-50 feet tall.   The high volume 
plants usually have a pneumatic conveying system to deliver the PVC 
pellets to the extruders. Once they start up an extruder it typically 
runs 24x7 until they are done with that run.

Dave

On 10/19/2016 4:46 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> 2016-10-17 9:50 GMT-03:00 craig :
>
>> I don;t know  what resources you have there.
>>
>> Minimum equipment approach
>>
>> 1 Heat the plastic and pour the rectangular shape oversize, Possibly
>> flattening down  and spread it out as
>>you do.   (How much it spreads naturally will be dependent on both
>> material and surface temperature.
>>   If you have a big enough machine you want to use it to control the
>> pour path.
>> 2 cut off the edges and recycle the material  with mill or saw.
>> 3. mill the top if the flattening does not leave the right height.
>> 4 possibly heat polish (slightly melt the surface) the form if glossy
>> surface it more important than sharp rectangular edges.
>>
>> You may want to reverse steps 2 and 3 and heat  polish the top for a
>> glossy surface before cutting the edges.
>>
> Is it possible to pour PVC as you would do with molten metal? I mean
> because of the viscosity of the plastic at that temperature I always
> thought the only solution is to apply pressure wheter extruding it or
> injecting it.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2016 at 04:27, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> The PC is simply to big and uses more power then needed for something so
> simple as a user display.

I think that the mini-ITX boards I use, with a DOM SSD in the SATA
port and no fan use 7W of power
I can afford that in the context of a CNC machine using kW.

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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2016 at 10:55, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
> Mix in a Udoo X86 board as the interface host? (It all stays small and
> low-power.)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSYsShm69o

I bought a Udoo as part of the Kickstarter, and have had it for quite
a long time now.
I did try to get an RT-PREEMPT kernel running on it, but I can't
remember if I ever got it working.

I think I lost interest when I found something I didn't like about the
interface between the PC and the Arduino from a real-time
point-of-view.
(That and I have too many projects and didn't need the Udoo for anything)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[W. Martinjak]

On 2016-10-20 11:55, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> Mix in a Udoo X86 board as the interface host? (It all stays small and
> low-power.)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSYsShm69o

Ok, but which interface do you select for driving your gears?


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nur ihre Gegner sterben nach und nach"

Max Planck


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 19.10.16 15:50, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
> While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
> way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to the
> BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
> PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
> performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
> display is essentially unusable).

> If you're willing to work with the limitations of a low-end ARM
> platform like the BeagleBone, they have their place, but for larger
> machines, I'd recommend x86.

Mix in a Udoo X86 board as the interface host? (It all stays small and
low-power.)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSYsShm69o

The kickstarter campaign is complete, but I've ordered one on their
website since. With the backlog, it'll be December before my late order
ships, unfortunately, but it looks like it will be a more than adequate
graphics machine. (I don't need to run 3 desktops concurrently.)

It's no threat to the BBB at the embedded end, but the BBB is not a
competitor in its niche either, I figure. They ought to make a nice
sandwich.

I've put Ubuntu 16.04.1 onto a flash stick, ready for when it arrives.
(Could have put it on an SD card, instead.) They also have a variety of
clip-on M.2 SSDs, so I ordered one of them too. The second ARM chip, for
Arduino stuff, might lie idle in my case, but it could be amusing to
plug an interface "shield" into that at some stage.

Erik

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