Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Jon Elson]

On 12/29/2016 10:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> Yup that too. Chances are such places were a union shop & lots of those
> places are busy protecting the crane operators job.
>
>
No, that place is NOT union, and the real crane operator 
thinks it is totally crazy, too, and will tell you so.
But, "rules are rules..."


Now, at Oak Ridge, which is union, many years ago, we almost 
cause a job action by soldering a wire.
My boss ended up packing the gear in a box and taking it to 
his hotel room to fix.  Later, we seemed to get lucky and 
the place was always on strike when we went there.  Then, we 
could do anything we wanted without interference.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 22:17:50 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/29/2016 07:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Darn it, I meant CTA, for Cover Their A$$ above.
>
> Yeah, lots of that.  At Argonne, they have all the ladders,
> and I mean ALL the ladders, down to one foot tall step
> ladders, chained to the wall!  Only the trained people can
> check out the keys to unlock the ladders.  So, people end up
> climbing on stuff not meant to be climbed on, because they
> can't get an approved person to do it.

I've seen that attitude here and there. Being a git-r-done type back when 
I could, I didn't get too many paychecks from places like that. The most 
asinine was me being a tech, with a 1st phone in his pocket, and 11 
years later a CET, then once in CA in the late 70's, I grabbed a ladder 
and changed a light bulb that I had asked be replaced for 4 or 5 days, 
and of course the shop steward walked in and had a herd of cows. I got 
fired of course. I walked by his cubicle as I headed for the parking 
lot, and thanked him because now I could go get a good job. I had to 
come east of the river, but it was a heck of a lot better.  At a tv 
station, the GM, once the Chief Operators Letter is in the public file, 
may need reminding occasionally of just how little power he has. One of 
the 3 GM's I had in the 18 years I was there, wanted to do some rigged 
payola, which the commission takes a very dim view of. I heard the first 
spot promoing it air, and it was off the shelf in 5 minutes. He got 
educated by reading a couple pages out of 47CFR, part 73.  Didn't make 
him too happy but within the year that war was over, a deputy gave him 
20 minutes to get his stuff in one box and out of the building.  Seems 
he had also been cooking the books.  I mentioned that spat to Russ, who 
owned the facility, when we had some face time in his airplane, that I 
thought he (the GM) was going to fire me over that. Russ said he 
couldn't do it without going thru me. He did call me. I don't fire 
honest people. All I could do was say thank you. And thank you for 
fixing it because it sure needed fixed.

> At MSU/NSCL (National Superconducting Cyclotron Lab) they
> have insane stuff with massively excessive training required
> to do anything.  So, to use a small chain hoist to lift
> something that is just a bit heavy for two people to lift by
> hand, you have to have crane training, and go through all
> the rigamarole required to lift a central air conditioner
> over people's heads.  There's lots more, it gets pretty crazy.

Yup that too. Chances are such places were a union shop & lots of those 
places are busy protecting the crane operators job.

> Jon
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Jon Elson]

On 12/29/2016 07:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> Darn it, I meant CTA, for Cover Their A$$ above.
>
>
Yeah, lots of that.  At Argonne, they have all the ladders, 
and I mean ALL the ladders, down to one foot tall step 
ladders, chained to the wall!  Only the trained people can 
check out the keys to unlock the ladders.  So, people end up 
climbing on stuff not meant to be climbed on, because they 
can't get an approved person to do it.

At MSU/NSCL (National Superconducting Cyclotron Lab) they 
have insane stuff with massively excessive training required 
to do anything.  So, to use a small chain hoist to lift 
something that is just a bit heavy for two people to lift by 
hand, you have to have crane training, and go through all 
the rigamarole required to lift a central air conditioner 
over people's heads.  There's lots more, it gets pretty crazy.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 19:01:33 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 29 December 2016 13:35:14 Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 12/29/2016 11:19 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > And there went the reversed hookup protection. :)
> >
> > No, the diodes are in the power SUPPLY, so the modular
> > supply is running near the designed voltage, but the load
> > gets a lower voltage.
> >
> > >> Jon
> > >
> > > How did you get that mod past the nuclear regulators? I'd had a
> > > couple mods that genuinely improved the pix coming out of a tv
> > > camera, rejected by lesser air force *crats who wouldn't know a
> > > 1n34 diode from a 4 ton transformer. Pain in the a$$ they are.
> > > They do not understand the technology at all, and do their damnest
> > > to freeze the technology at the point the maker boxed it for
> > > shipping.
> >
> > The national labs do have "electrical safety inspectors" who
> > check everything that has a power cord.  Since this unit
> > plugs into a power and cooling frame, they generally don't
> > even look at it. Mostly they ohm out the safety ground to
> > frame resistance and make sure hot and neutral are isolated,
> > and then they are happy and put an approved sticker on it.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Humm, VTA stuff.  But at least we can get something before the next
> 4th of July.
>
Darn it, I meant CTA, for Cover Their A$$ above.

> And, I am now a wee bit schmardter. When I wired that box, I brought
> the line cord in and hooked it up to the 60 volt Z motor supply, then
> continued the bus to the 42 volt supplies for the X motor, and then on
> to this supply.  Putting the filter on this supply helped, but only a
> few percentage points less noise. So I grabbed a couple wire nuts and
> bypassed the 60 volt supplies lines, including the static ground, and
> the pair of supplies I intended to drive the x motor with, spent about
> 3 hours stinking the place up about 3 weeks back, so they were removed
> and I ordered another, whose last day to arrive was today, but I not
> seen hide nor hair of it yet.
>
> So with the big supply out of the picture, it all seems to work.  The
> about 2 volts p-p at the ground terminal of the encoder cable was a
> bit over 400mv, so I was able to add some code to scale the encoder to
> the hal file. Looking at the velocity on the halscope, its about a 20%
> of average with the waveform period matching one full cycle of the
> quadrature. D I've been using a green highliter to mark up the stuff
> for my averager in a printout of the mills hal file, which should
> reduce that periodic noise to 25% of its cuttent value, while
> injecting a phase delay of 2 edges gone by if it was being fed back to
> a PID, which it isn't. So next thought is that the noise from the big
> supply damaged both of the x motors supplies.
>
> So I am going to reroute the power wiring so it hits a terminal board
> and the little supply hooked direct, first, and from that terminal,
> feed the Z PSU thru this filter, and the X thru another filter I'll
> cabbage from another computer psu since I have more dead ones. So all
> three are sourced from the same terminal strip, but each of the bigger
> supplies will have a noise board in its power leads.
>
> Thats the plan right now anyway. I went out an picked up a dead psu,
> opened it up, but the line filters were laid out as an odd shaped
> corner of its PCB, so I clamped onto the heat sink in the mills vice,
> and used an old 1/8" mill to cut it out of the main PCB, driving it
> slowly with the mills keyboard. Now I'll make a box out of dbl-sided
> raw pcb to put both of them in tomorrow and fasten it to the outside
> of the main box and run some wire to the little 5 volter, and extend
> that back to a hot feed from a switch that will turn the pi and the
> monitor off, then run another bit of SJ from the switched duplex that
> will turn off all the higher powered stuff in addition to that 4 foot
> high powered (4000 lumens) daylight led on the bracket about 34" above
> the bed.  And anything else plugged into the duplex above the spindle.
>  Then we'll see how much #@$% noise we have.
>
> Good thing I've got until I fall over to get this done.  The bad part
> is like concrete cracking, the question is not will it, but when,
> because it will. :)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 13:35:14 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/29/2016 11:19 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > And there went the reversed hookup protection. :)
>
> No, the diodes are in the power SUPPLY, so the modular
> supply is running near the designed voltage, but the load
> gets a lower voltage.
>
> >> Jon
> >
> > How did you get that mod past the nuclear regulators? I'd had a
> > couple mods that genuinely improved the pix coming out of a tv
> > camera, rejected by lesser air force *crats who wouldn't know a 1n34
> > diode from a 4 ton transformer. Pain in the a$$ they are. They do
> > not understand the technology at all, and do their damnest to freeze
> > the technology at the point the maker boxed it for shipping.
>
> The national labs do have "electrical safety inspectors" who
> check everything that has a power cord.  Since this unit
> plugs into a power and cooling frame, they generally don't
> even look at it. Mostly they ohm out the safety ground to
> frame resistance and make sure hot and neutral are isolated,
> and then they are happy and put an approved sticker on it.
>
> Jon
>
Humm, VTA stuff.  But at least we can get something before the next 4th 
of July.

And, I am now a wee bit schmardter. When I wired that box, I brought the 
line cord in and hooked it up to the 60 volt Z motor supply, then 
continued the bus to the 42 volt supplies for the X motor, and then on 
to this supply.  Putting the filter on this supply helped, but only a 
few percentage points less noise. So I grabbed a couple wire nuts and 
bypassed the 60 volt supplies lines, including the static ground, and 
the pair of supplies I intended to drive the x motor with, spent about 3 
hours stinking the place up about 3 weeks back, so they were removed and 
I ordered another, whose last day to arrive was today, but I not seen 
hide nor hair of it yet.

So with the big supply out of the picture, it all seems to work.  The 
about 2 volts p-p at the ground terminal of the encoder cable was a bit 
over 400mv, so I was able to add some code to scale the encoder to the 
hal file. Looking at the velocity on the halscope, its about a 20% of 
average with the waveform period matching one full cycle of the 
quadrature. D I've been using a green highliter to mark up the stuff for 
my averager in a printout of the mills hal file, which should reduce 
that periodic noise to 25% of its cuttent value, while injecting a phase 
delay of 2 edges gone by if it was being fed back to a PID, which it 
isn't. So next thought is that the noise from the big supply damaged 
both of the x motors supplies.

So I am going to reroute the power wiring so it hits a terminal board and 
the little supply hooked direct, first, and from that terminal, feed the 
Z PSU thru this filter, and the X thru another filter I'll cabbage from 
another computer psu since I have more dead ones. So all three are 
sourced from the same terminal strip, but each of the bigger supplies 
will have a noise board in its power leads.

Thats the plan right now anyway. I went out an picked up a dead psu, 
opened it up, but the line filters were laid out as an odd shaped corner 
of its PCB, so I clamped onto the heat sink in the mills vice, and used 
an old 1/8" mill to cut it out of the main PCB, driving it slowly with 
the mills keyboard. Now I'll make a box out of dbl-sided raw pcb to put 
both of them in tomorrow and fasten it to the outside of the main box 
and run some wire to the little 5 volter, and extend that back to a hot 
feed from a switch that will turn the pi and the monitor off, then run 
another bit of SJ from the switched duplex that will turn off all the 
higher powered stuff in addition to that 4 foot high powered (4000 
lumens) daylight led on the bracket about 34" above the bed.  And 
anything else plugged into the duplex above the spindle.  Then we'll see 
how much #@$% noise we have.

Good thing I've got until I fall over to get this done.  The bad part is 
like concrete cracking, the question is not will it, but when, because 
it will. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] "I"diot USB stick not writable

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Hm, I might be an idiot but not an "I"diot. Today I could create folders but 
they did not stay until next time used. I must have done something stupid with 
the stick and have to check myself what is going on.

> What are the permissions on the USB stick.   Just do "ls -l" and see.
>  Likely the device now is owned by a group you need to be a member of
> in order to have write permission.But you can use "sudo chmod
> ..." to do a one time fix.
> 
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Nicklas Karlsson
>  wrote:
> > There have been some kind of "I"idiot transforming debian desktop for 
> > telelphones, they have thrown in all applications without sorting in a 
> > bunch at what's worse removed System->Administration->User so I can't 
> > change setting to make USB stick writable. Did anyone else had similar 
> > problem to make USB stick writable then files should be copied to linuxcnc 
> > computer?
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] "I"diot USB stick not writable

[Chris Albertson]

What are the permissions on the USB stick.   Just do "ls -l" and see.
 Likely the device now is owned by a group you need to be a member of
in order to have write permission.But you can use "sudo chmod
..." to do a one time fix.

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
> There have been some kind of "I"idiot transforming debian desktop for 
> telelphones, they have thrown in all applications without sorting in a bunch 
> at what's worse removed System->Administration->User so I can't change 
> setting to make USB stick writable. Did anyone else had similar problem to 
> make USB stick writable then files should be copied to linuxcnc computer?
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Sarah Armstrong]

good progress , i cant come up with any omissions , at least at this stage



On 29 December 2016 at 19:01, TJoseph Powderly  wrote:

> planning 3 tabs
> 'tech' you select edm parameters from a flatfile database OR rool your own
> on/off/current/polarity/ignition voltage
> 'cut' you control live cut   generator on/off, offtime, target voltage,
> gain for edm servo, peck cutting parms, fill(flood) & flushing parms
>and you monitor AvgVoltage AvgCurrent Stability Arcing ... ooops it
> 2am, cutting it short
> 'strategy'  orbiting
>
> tomp tjtr33
>
>
> 
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Jon Elson]

On 12/29/2016 11:19 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> And there went the reversed hookup protection. :)
>
No, the diodes are in the power SUPPLY, so the modular 
supply is running near the designed voltage, but the load 
gets a lower voltage.
>> Jon
> How did you get that mod past the nuclear regulators? I'd had a couple
> mods that genuinely improved the pix coming out of a tv camera, rejected
> by lesser air force *crats who wouldn't know a 1n34 diode from a 4 ton
> transformer. Pain in the a$$ they are. They do not understand the
> technology at all, and do their damnest to freeze the technology at the
> point the maker boxed it for shipping.
>
The national labs do have "electrical safety inspectors" who 
check everything that has a power cord.  Since this unit 
plugs into a power and cooling frame, they generally don't 
even look at it. Mostly they ohm out the safety ground to 
frame resistance and make sure hot and neutral are isolated, 
and then they are happy and put an approved sticker on it.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 11:39:38 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/29/2016 12:07 AM, TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> > I'll second the meanwell p/s
> > but the name is just so ...   apologetic :-)
> > mine have sticker 'finely made in taiwan'
>
> There are no rules.

None they pay any attention to.

> I have been making a power supply for 
> some nuclear instrumentation electronics for some years.  I
> used a Cincon power supply (9 V 6.6 A) and hacked it for
> remote sense.  it was quiet, stable (even with my hack) and
> worked fine, but we needed more power.  I got a 10 A supply
> from the same manufacturer, it was built for remote sense.
> It was not stable with a slightly capacitive load above 5 A,
> and was a HUGE EMI source.
> I worked on it for a while, and was not able to fix the
> stability or noise problems.  So, two supplies from the same
> maker, one did what it was supposed to, the other one was
> barely capable of running an incandescent light bulb, and
> certainly no electronics.  I then got another power supply
> from a different maker (sorry, don't remember the brand at
> the moment) 7 V at 8.6 A, hacked it for remote sense, and it
> was quieter that the original, and no stability issues.
>
> This thing is to power a unit 10 to 30 feet away, and
> deliver 6 V DC at the remote load.  The 9 V supplies were
> dropped down with a bridge rectifier (2 diodes in series).
> When I got the 7 V supply, I took out the rectifier drop.

And there went the reversed hookup protection. :)

> Jon

How did you get that mod past the nuclear regulators? I'd had a couple 
mods that genuinely improved the pix coming out of a tv camera, rejected 
by lesser air force *crats who wouldn't know a 1n34 diode from a 4 ton 
transformer. Pain in the a$$ they are. They do not understand the 
technology at all, and do their damnest to freeze the technology at the 
point the maker boxed it for shipping.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 09:29:58 John Thornton wrote:

> Gene, you have a package on the way... a little lagniappe from me.
>
> JT

Thank you John. Have a happy new year.

> On 12/28/2016 7:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 28 December 2016 17:42:29 John Thornton wrote:
> >> Hi Gene,
> >>
> >> Want to test one of my 5v 3a regulated power supplies?
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > A linear I'd assume.  Details @url?
> >
> > This one?
> >
> > http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&product_id
> >=73
> >
> > Thats not a linear.
> >
> > At that $$, I can afford to "test" it, but your web page doesn't
> > like my FF, so I am stuck at the checkout steps display but its all
> > DIW from here. I'll call tomorrow and pass the card nums.
> >
> >> On 12/28/2016 4:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings everybody;
> >>>
> >>> Now I am asking a question that I should know the answer to.
> >>>
> >>> It looks like, from the evidence so far, that this 5v 4a little
> >>> switchmode psu should be sent to the fcc and let them ban it from
> >>> ever coming off the boat or airplane on US soil.
> >>>
> >>> Its "static" ground terminal is common to the case, and I have now
> >>> grounded it by way of a couple flat braided ground straps about
> >>> 5/16" inch wide, back to the ground bolt in the bottom of the box.
> >>> Ditto the static ground on the z motors 60 volt psu. House static
> >>> coming in is now also bolted at that stud.  The scope probes
> >>> ground lead is on that stud, the clipon probe is clipped to one of
> >>> the ioconnectors ground pins.
> >>>
> >>> That point is bouncing around 2.5v p-p with the switching activity
> >>> in that psu.  That bolt s/b common to the lathes bed casting thru
> >>> the bolts that mount it on a post bolted to the chip pan, which is
> >>> braced by an angle iron bolted to this post, with the end of the
> >>> angle, about 8" away, bolted solidly to the bed casting at the
> >>> other end.
> >>>
> >>> I purposely did not connect anything in the at667 encoder wireup,
> >>> to the frame anyplace.  If I could find a good, real dirt ground
> >>> for the scope probe, I take bets that the whole latch is bouncing
> >>> at least 25  volts p-p to that real ground.
> >>>
> >>> The only way I can see ATM, is to install some "longitudinal"
> >>> filters, therefore chokeing that noise back into the psu instead
> >>> of giving it something to work against in the form of a solid
> >>> connection to the powerline.  I can source such a filter from Dave
> >>> at the tv station as I know he has a pile of failed monitor pcb's,
> >>> all of which will have good filters we can excavate.
> >>>
> >>> Or should I take the chance that the next one I buy on fleabay,
> >>> would be quiet?  Your call.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> ---
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> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Chris Albertson]

No, SOME switched mode supplies are noisy and need external filters.
Many of the are very good.   The problem is you never know what you
will get if you buy stuff on eBay.  Even if it says "Genuine Acme
Brand" it may not be.  There are MANY fake products sold.

What I do is buy and test out one and if it works out buy more

Remember the woman in China who was electrocuted by the fake Apple
iPhone charger?It looked real but inside the manufacture did not
have even basic safety design. No isolation from 220 volt mains.   The
name brand part is very good, no noise and safe even after a fault but
cost 10X the price of the fake.

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
> Switched power electronics are horrible noise sources. Common mode chokes
> in the form ferrite cores usually dampen the noise.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[John Thornton]

Nope

JT


On 12/29/2016 10:34 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 29 December 2016 11:11:56 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> Gene, your package is on the way.
>>
>> JT
> Thanks JT but aren't you missing some numbers?
>> On 12/29/2016 10:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Thursday 29 December 2016 06:25:34 andy pugh wrote:
 On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller 
>>> wrote:
> They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
 Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
 enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
 making fakes.
 (The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if
 you are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off
 device)

 The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
 hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-s
 mps /1065822/

 Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an
 experiment?
>>> I don't have a bench supply.  But I did find an expired computer psu
>>> last night, and extracted the small pcb with most of its input
>>> filtering, and when I get my cramping legs to take me out there,
>>> plus input a couple cups of caffeine, I'll put it incircuit for
>>> effects.  But first call JT, he has a 3 amp for little enough.
>>>
>>> Someone mentioned that the real meanwell's covers have hex holes.
>>> This one has round holes.  Sigh.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
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>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Jon Elson]

On 12/29/2016 12:07 AM, TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> I'll second the meanwell p/s
> but the name is just so ...   apologetic :-)
> mine have sticker 'finely made in taiwan'
>
There are no rules.  I have been making a power supply for 
some nuclear instrumentation electronics for some years.  I 
used a Cincon power supply (9 V 6.6 A) and hacked it for 
remote sense.  it was quiet, stable (even with my hack) and 
worked fine, but we needed more power.  I got a 10 A supply 
from the same manufacturer, it was built for remote sense.  
It was not stable with a slightly capacitive load above 5 A, 
and was a HUGE EMI source.
I worked on it for a while, and was not able to fix the 
stability or noise problems.  So, two supplies from the same 
maker, one did what it was supposed to, the other one was 
barely capable of running an incandescent light bulb, and 
certainly no electronics.  I then got another power supply 
from a different maker (sorry, don't remember the brand at 
the moment) 7 V at 8.6 A, hacked it for remote sense, and it 
was quieter that the original, and no stability issues.

This thing is to power a unit 10 to 30 feet away, and 
deliver 6 V DC at the remote load.  The 9 V supplies were 
dropped down with a bridge rectifier (2 diodes in series).  
When I got the 7 V supply, I took out the rectifier drop.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 11:11:56 John Thornton wrote:

> Gene, your package is on the way.
>
> JT

Thanks JT but aren't you missing some numbers?
>
> On 12/29/2016 10:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 29 December 2016 06:25:34 andy pugh wrote:
> >> On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller 
> >
> > wrote:
> >>> They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
> >>
> >> Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
> >> enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
> >> making fakes.
> >> (The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if
> >> you are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off
> >> device)
> >>
> >> The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
> >> hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
> >> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-s
> >>mps /1065822/
> >>
> >> Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an
> >> experiment?
> >
> > I don't have a bench supply.  But I did find an expired computer psu
> > last night, and extracted the small pcb with most of its input
> > filtering, and when I get my cramping legs to take me out there,
> > plus input a couple cups of caffeine, I'll put it incircuit for
> > effects.  But first call JT, he has a 3 amp for little enough.
> >
> > Someone mentioned that the real meanwell's covers have hex holes.
> > This one has round holes.  Sigh.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 07:04:28 John Thornton wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> Did you have trouble before with the web store?
>
> JT

Yes John. Just fixing to call you and do it over the phone. But you 
aren't answering the phone ATM. Did you reset it? my cart is empty just 
now. So I added it again, but when I go to the checkout page, none of 
the 6 steps to do the checkout can be activated. You are not in 
firefoxes stashed files, so I;d assume I haven't registered, but when I 
fill out the form it says I am. Puzzled that is. So its sending me a new 
pw.
>
> On 12/28/2016 7:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 28 December 2016 17:42:29 John Thornton wrote:
> >> Hi Gene,
> >>
> >> Want to test one of my 5v 3a regulated power supplies?
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > A linear I'd assume.  Details @url?
> >
> > This one?
> >
> > http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&product_id
> >=73
> >
> > Thats not a linear.
> >
> > At that $$, I can afford to "test" it, but your web page doesn't
> > like my FF, so I am stuck at the checkout steps display but its all
> > DIW from here. I'll call tomorrow and pass the card nums.
>
> --
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[John Thornton]

Gene, your package is on the way.

JT


On 12/29/2016 10:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 29 December 2016 06:25:34 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller 
> wrote:
>>> They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
>> Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
>> enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
>> making fakes.
>> (The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if you
>> are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off device)
>>
>> The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
>> hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
>> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-smps
>> /1065822/
>>
>> Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an
>> experiment?
> I don't have a bench supply.  But I did find an expired computer psu last
> night, and extracted the small pcb with most of its input filtering, and
> when I get my cramping legs to take me out there, plus input a couple
> cups of caffeine, I'll put it incircuit for effects.  But first call JT,
> he has a 3 amp for little enough.
>
> Someone mentioned that the real meanwell's covers have hex holes. This
> one has round holes.  Sigh.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[dannym]

What's this for again?

I have found it preferable to use one of the DC/DC converters off the 24v power 
supply for steppers (or 48v, but that's a different story, that requires an HV 
converter and the ones they sell are all- ALL- fakes, you have to mod it with 
real components).

Danny
 
 Gene Heskett  wrote: 
> On Thursday 29 December 2016 06:25:34 andy pugh wrote:
> 
> > On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller  
> wrote:
> > > They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
> >
> > Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
> > enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
> > making fakes.
> > (The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if you
> > are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off device)
> >
> > The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
> > hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
> > http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-smps
> >/1065822/
> >
> > Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an
> > experiment?
> 
> I don't have a bench supply.  But I did find an expired computer psu last 
> night, and extracted the small pcb with most of its input filtering, and 
> when I get my cramping legs to take me out there, plus input a couple 
> cups of caffeine, I'll put it incircuit for effects.  But first call JT, 
> he has a 3 amp for little enough.
> 
> Someone mentioned that the real meanwell's covers have hex holes. This 
> one has round holes.  Sigh.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 December 2016 06:25:34 andy pugh wrote:

> On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller  
wrote:
> > They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
>
> Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
> enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
> making fakes.
> (The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if you
> are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off device)
>
> The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
> hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-smps
>/1065822/
>
> Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an
> experiment?

I don't have a bench supply.  But I did find an expired computer psu last 
night, and extracted the small pcb with most of its input filtering, and 
when I get my cramping legs to take me out there, plus input a couple 
cups of caffeine, I'll put it incircuit for effects.  But first call JT, 
he has a 3 amp for little enough.

Someone mentioned that the real meanwell's covers have hex holes. This 
one has round holes.  Sigh.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[John Thornton]

Gene, you have a package on the way... a little lagniappe from me.

JT


On 12/28/2016 7:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 December 2016 17:42:29 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> Want to test one of my 5v 3a regulated power supplies?
>>
>> JT
> A linear I'd assume.  Details @url?
>
> This one?
>
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&product_id=73
>
> Thats not a linear.
>
> At that $$, I can afford to "test" it, but your web page doesn't like my
> FF, so I am stuck at the checkout steps display but its all DIW from
> here. I'll call tomorrow and pass the card nums.
>> On 12/28/2016 4:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings everybody;
>>>
>>> Now I am asking a question that I should know the answer to.
>>>
>>> It looks like, from the evidence so far, that this 5v 4a little
>>> switchmode psu should be sent to the fcc and let them ban it from
>>> ever coming off the boat or airplane on US soil.
>>>
>>> Its "static" ground terminal is common to the case, and I have now
>>> grounded it by way of a couple flat braided ground straps about
>>> 5/16" inch wide, back to the ground bolt in the bottom of the box.
>>> Ditto the static ground on the z motors 60 volt psu. House static
>>> coming in is now also bolted at that stud.  The scope probes ground
>>> lead is on that stud, the clipon probe is clipped to one of the
>>> ioconnectors ground pins.
>>>
>>> That point is bouncing around 2.5v p-p with the switching activity
>>> in that psu.  That bolt s/b common to the lathes bed casting thru
>>> the bolts that mount it on a post bolted to the chip pan, which is
>>> braced by an angle iron bolted to this post, with the end of the
>>> angle, about 8" away, bolted solidly to the bed casting at the other
>>> end.
>>>
>>> I purposely did not connect anything in the at667 encoder wireup, to
>>> the frame anyplace.  If I could find a good, real dirt ground for
>>> the scope probe, I take bets that the whole latch is bouncing at
>>> least 25  volts p-p to that real ground.
>>>
>>> The only way I can see ATM, is to install some "longitudinal"
>>> filters, therefore chokeing that noise back into the psu instead of
>>> giving it something to work against in the form of a solid
>>> connection to the powerline.  I can source such a filter from Dave
>>> at the tv station as I know he has a pile of failed monitor pcb's,
>>> all of which will have good filters we can excavate.
>>>
>>> Or should I take the chance that the next one I buy on fleabay,
>>> would be quiet?  Your call.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
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>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[MC Cason]

Gene,

   Does your Mean Well have "Made in China" wrote on it?

   My 24V - 20A Taiwan labeled Mean Well's were pulled from industrial 
equipment, and work quite well.  The 12V - 20 A Chinese labeled one, 
that I bought last year off of Ebay, lost it's magic smoke after a week 
of intermittent use at 8A.

   Due to their popularity, I'm assuming that there are quite a few fake 
Mean Well PSU's on Ebay.


On 12/28/2016 11:54 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 December 2016 23:49:00 Danny Miller wrote:
>
>> I can tell you this with confidence- the reliable, quality brand is
>> "Meanwell".
>>
>> They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-MW-5V-3A-15W-AC-DC-Switching-Power-S
>> upply-NES-15-5-/351760561983?hash=item51e690373f:g:NbMAAOSwepJXYhR4
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-MEAN-WELL-POWER-SUPPLY-ADAPTER-ES18A05
>> -050-5V-3A-15W-max-100240v-/112229820233?hash=item1a216b2749:g:nssAAOSw
>> A3dYGUnC
>>
>> Meanwell isn't even notably more expensive.
>>
>> Danny
>>
> This noise maker is in fact a Meanwell I bought from MPJA. But if I still
> had a good am radio, I could set up a df loop, I'd bet I could find it
> every 17 kilohertz to at least 75 megahertz! This has ringing components
> that exceed the vertical bandwidth of my Hitachi V-1065, rated at 100
> mhz, but I have actually used it to look at the driver stage output of a
> 50 kw tv transmitter on channel 8, which is nominally 180 megahertz.
>
> Scrounging around in my junk box, I found a computer psu that I
> had "borrowed" a power hexfet out of several years ago, and its line
> input filter was actually on a separate PCB, so it was quite easily
> clipped out of the circuit.  Looks like a 5 pole push pull Chebychev
> design. I'd have to make a box for it if I use it, but I can put it in
> circuit for S&G's in about 15 minutes tomorrow as a test. Noise coming
> back in on the supposedly grounded and shielded cable to the encoder in
> the lathe, about 8 feed of cable, is 1.95 v p-p on the 7i90 input
> connectors ground pin.
>
> With all that running on 5.09 volts, and feeding a 3.3v circuit on the
> pi, there simply is no way in hell thats not going to putz with the data
> integrity. And its doing a great job of that.
>
> So we'll see what this filter does to it tomorrow.  In the meantime, I'll
> have JT send me one of his for "testing". USPS can probably have it in
> my mailbox by Monday from his place.
>

-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[John Thornton]

Hi Gene,

Did you have trouble before with the web store?

JT

On 12/28/2016 7:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 December 2016 17:42:29 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> Want to test one of my 5v 3a regulated power supplies?
>>
>> JT
> A linear I'd assume.  Details @url?
>
> This one?
>
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&product_id=73
>
> Thats not a linear.
>
> At that $$, I can afford to "test" it, but your web page doesn't like my
> FF, so I am stuck at the checkout steps display but its all DIW from
> here. I'll call tomorrow and pass the card nums.
>>


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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[andy pugh]

On 29 December 2016 at 04:49, Danny Miller  wrote:
> They all look pretty much the same, they're not.

Meanwell is an interesting example of a Chinese brand that has made
enough of a reputation for being not-awful that others have started
making fakes.
(The same has happened with Fotek SSRs, you can no longer tell if you
are getting a real rip-off of a Crydom or a fake of a rip-off device)

The real Mean Well chassis supplies on the RS web site have
hexagonal-punched covers. That might be a way to tell:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-smps/1065822/

Why not try running from a bench PSU or even batteries as an experiment?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Noise problem found, but not fixed.

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Switched power electronics are horrible noise sources. Common mode chokes
in the form ferrite cores usually dampen the noise.

2016-12-29 7:07 GMT+01:00 TJoseph Powderly :

> I'll second the meanwell p/s
> but the name is just so ...   apologetic :-)
> mine have sticker 'finely made in taiwan'
> tomp
> On 12/29/16 11:49, Danny Miller wrote:
> > I can tell you this with confidence- the reliable, quality brand is
> > "Meanwell".
> >
> > They all look pretty much the same, they're not.
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-MW-5V-3A-15W-AC-DC-
> Switching-Power-Supply-NES-15-5-/351760561983?hash=item51e690373f:g:
> NbMAAOSwepJXYhR4
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-MEAN-WELL-POWER-
> SUPPLY-ADAPTER-ES18A05-050-5V-3A-15W-max-100240v-/112229820233?hash=
> item1a216b2749:g:nssAAOSwA3dYGUnC
> >
> > Meanwell isn't even notably more expensive.
> >
> > Danny
> >
>
>
> 
> --
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