Re: [Emc-users] emc2 openProfibus

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> > But the goal is to find the best industrial bus for communication
> > between devices and open source ... openpowerlink seems quite open,
> > master and slave side
> > (ethercat for example in
> 
> 
> I must have missed some of the requirements.  But from the above Ethernet
> seem like an obvious solution.   It can push 1Gbit/second.  Latency can be
> an issue if you use TCP/IP over Ethernet but one can just use UDP/IP or
> even Ethernet frames.   And you can request users to use a dedicated
> network.   UDP over a dedicated Gigabit network has just nanoseconds of
> latency..  Basically the bit rate times the length of the datagram.
> People have beaten this be packing the most time sensitive data in there
> front of the packet.
> 
> If you are taking about transferring data in a machine shop one other thing
> is important and Ethernet does this too -- Galvanic isolation.  Ethernet
> uses transformers on each end of the line and therefore has very good
> common mode rejection.   But not trying the grounds together is a big
> advantage in an industrial setting.
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California

Yes Ethernet is good, in particularly for communication in between machine 
there where are no servo real time demand. For real time communication within 
machine others might be a better choice because they ware simpler and cheaper.

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Re: [Emc-users] RPI saga continues - SPI probably solved

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 30 May 2017 08:20:38 Bertho Stultiens wrote:

> On 05/30/2017 02:32 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote:
> > After some digging I noticed that there might be a data-barrier
> > problem, where peripheral register access can become out-of-order.
> > The ARM has the __sync_synchronize() (via gcc) to insert DMB
> > (data-memory-barrier) instructions when you need to guarantee
> > ordering. Inserting DMB made things worse, such that sometimes the
> > setup is 32MHz and sometimes 50MHz. Well, actually, it exposes a
> > deeper problem.
>
> I suddenly realized that the SPI peripheral is configured and accessed
> in userspace. That will fail miserably if not extremely careful,
> especially on SMP.
>
> However, there already is a solution for this! The linux kernel has a
> SPI driver, which is quite good (used it before). It solves all the
> userspace problems and, to say the least, some very clever people have
> had a crack at this problem before.
>
> So, drop userspace access to the hardware and use the kernel
> interface.
>
> 1 - run raspi-config and enable the kernel SPI driver -> reboot
> 2 - you should now have /dev/spidev0.[01]
> 3 - replace the hm2_rpspi.c file in src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/
> with the one attached
> 4 - recompile
> 5 - run
>
> Gene, with my (4GB) SD image do (you know the cmdline):
> - run raspi-config to enable the kernel SPI driver and reboot
> - save attached file on SD card as hm2_rpspi.c.new
> $ cp hm2_rpspi.c.new
> linuxcnc-git/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_rpspi.c $ cd
> linuxcnc-git/src
> $ make
> $ sudo make setuid
> $ ../scripts/linuxcnc -v
> ../../linuxcnc/configs/sheldon-lathe/7i90-axis.ini
>
> I get the result as shown in the images. The advantage is that there
> are no inter-word delays anymore. The time for chip select to be
> active varies a bit (16.5 us in image 8 vs. 6.3 us data transfer in
> image 6). This variability is inherent to the driver how it handles
> chip select asynchronously. Still, it is an improvement, especially
> for large transfers.
>
> I did add a rtapi module parameter - spiclk - which should set the
> clock upon load. However, I've not been able to get that to work.
> Probably something trivial I did wrong. Ah well, at least it runs at a
> good speed now, also after reboots.
>
> My hm2_rpspi driver hack is fixed to /dev/spidev0.0 (CE0 pin). This
> should be a configurable parameter (features for the future).

Hi Bertho; I haven't heard any more, so I am wondering if you've found 
any more "magic beans"?

I managed to get the box with the rebuilt controller mounted on the 
outside of the motor drivers box door today, but nothing is wired up 
yet. This is with the pi with the teeny capacitor (about 14 pf) loading 
the clocking line, which seems to be about bulletproof in that so far it 
has worked every time. This is with the new hm2_rpspi.c you had me 
build.

So tomorrow, I'll start wiring this one back into the system.  It will 
take some time though as I either have to splice & extend the cables, or 
start from scratch with longer cabling.  I'll have to take inventory as 
finding really suitable cabling is a bit of a chore out here in the 
puckerbrush of West Virginia. 

This box is ground isolated as I mounted it on insulation strips, except 
for its power cord, so the first thing will be to extend the single 
point ground to include this box, and cut the static ground in the power 
cord off the back of the socket.  Details, details.  Boring.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] emc2 openProfibus

[Chris Albertson]

> But the goal is to find the best industrial bus for communication
> between devices and open source ... openpowerlink seems quite open,
> master and slave side
> (ethercat for example in


I must have missed some of the requirements.  But from the above Ethernet
seem like an obvious solution.   It can push 1Gbit/second.  Latency can be
an issue if you use TCP/IP over Ethernet but one can just use UDP/IP or
even Ethernet frames.   And you can request users to use a dedicated
network.   UDP over a dedicated Gigabit network has just nanoseconds of
latency..  Basically the bit rate times the length of the datagram.
People have beaten this be packing the most time sensitive data in there
front of the packet.

If you are taking about transferring data in a machine shop one other thing
is important and Ethernet does this too -- Galvanic isolation.  Ethernet
uses transformers on each end of the line and therefore has very good
common mode rejection.   But not trying the grounds together is a big
advantage in an industrial setting.
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Semi OT: Chinese servo motors Yifeng branded

[Chris Albertson]

The very first step in making a decision should be to download the user
manual for the Yifeng product and see if it really is what you need.   That
table does not have enough information.   Then if you find there is no user
manual, is the product cheap enough that you can buy samples and test them?

I'm going through the same issue with smaller stepper motors about 1/3rd
the size of the Delta you linked to.  The best lowest price product might
even be good, might even be made in the same factory as the brand name but
no usable documentation so there is no way to know other than buying samples


On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia <
leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello to all.
>
> Looking for a good but cheap servo motor I came across an Ebay user from
> China that sells two brands mainly. One is Delta, wich I really trust and
> I've used their products. The other one is Yifeng wich is a lot cheaper
> than delta but I don't know anything about them.
>
> I attached a PDF with the prices of the Yifeng combos (servo+´drive) but I
> don't have the list with the prices of the Delta brand. Anyway just to have
> an idea here is a link to a Delta servo from this user on Ebay:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-Delta-B2-AC-Servo-Motor-
> Driver-220V-Set-Kit-ECMA-E21315RS-ASD-B2-1521-B-/191559765539?hash=
> item2c99da0e23:g:pwYAAOSwzaJX7bhj
>
> And a similar servo motor and drive of the Yifeng brand is more or less
> USD352 (You can take a look at the PDF attached)
>
> So what do you think? The user seems of trust judging by the feedbacks he
> has.
>
> My doubt is if this Yifeng brand are worth a try. I can firmly say the
> Delta ones are a very good product.
>
> Thanks as always!
>
> --
> *Leonardo Marsaglia*.
>
> 
> --
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>


-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Semi OT: Chinese servo motors Yifeng branded

[Nicklas Karlsson]

If you must have a very good product Delta is of course the first choice but 
Otherwise I would have tried the cheap one. Especially if you may need more 
later.


On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:46:17 -0300
Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:

> Hello to all.
> 
> Looking for a good but cheap servo motor I came across an Ebay user from
> China that sells two brands mainly. One is Delta, wich I really trust and
> I've used their products. The other one is Yifeng wich is a lot cheaper
> than delta but I don't know anything about them.
> 
> I attached a PDF with the prices of the Yifeng combos (servo+´drive) but I
> don't have the list with the prices of the Delta brand. Anyway just to have
> an idea here is a link to a Delta servo from this user on Ebay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-Delta-B2-AC-Servo-Motor-Driver-220V-Set-Kit-ECMA-E21315RS-ASD-B2-1521-B-/191559765539?hash=item2c99da0e23:g:pwYAAOSwzaJX7bhj
> 
> And a similar servo motor and drive of the Yifeng brand is more or less
> USD352 (You can take a look at the PDF attached)
> 
> So what do you think? The user seems of trust judging by the feedbacks he
> has.
> 
> My doubt is if this Yifeng brand are worth a try. I can firmly say the
> Delta ones are a very good product.
> 
> Thanks as always!
> 
> -- 
> *Leonardo Marsaglia*.

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[Emc-users] Semi OT: Chinese servo motors Yifeng branded

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hello to all.

Looking for a good but cheap servo motor I came across an Ebay user from
China that sells two brands mainly. One is Delta, wich I really trust and
I've used their products. The other one is Yifeng wich is a lot cheaper
than delta but I don't know anything about them.

I attached a PDF with the prices of the Yifeng combos (servo+´drive) but I
don't have the list with the prices of the Delta brand. Anyway just to have
an idea here is a link to a Delta servo from this user on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-Delta-B2-AC-Servo-Motor-Driver-220V-Set-Kit-ECMA-E21315RS-ASD-B2-1521-B-/191559765539?hash=item2c99da0e23:g:pwYAAOSwzaJX7bhj

And a similar servo motor and drive of the Yifeng brand is more or less
USD352 (You can take a look at the PDF attached)

So what do you think? The user seems of trust judging by the feedbacks he
has.

My doubt is if this Yifeng brand are worth a try. I can firmly say the
Delta ones are a very good product.

Thanks as always!

-- 
*Leonardo Marsaglia*.


Yifeng Servo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Emc-users] emc2 openProfibus

[theman whosoldtheworld]

So I cheked ... is it broke ...SO SORRY AT ALL FOR MY FIRST POST
SUBJECT. IS WRONG. OPENPOWERLINK INSTEAD OPENPROFIBUS

...any how thanks a lot for link about "justinbiber.hal"
 ...(note: i prefer Nirvana, Sonic Youth, Pearl Jam, Stone temple
Pilots ..etc etc ;) ) a good project. Perfect for build 18 point
calibration on rotary delta
and good for intercom on "mesa-card-robot-line". For shure I got to test it.


But the goal is to find the best industrial bus for communication
between devices and open source ... openpowerlink seems quite open,
master and slave side
(ethercat for example in royalty free + open on master side, but not
royalty free on slave side :( ).



Openpowerlink seems work quite well on user-space ... so I test it on
real-time-space (I hope i can realize a quite good latency with
isolcpu trick + openpowerlink)

bkt




2017-05-31 11:10 GMT+02:00 theman whosoldtheworld :

> @ andy ... I'm new to use gmail ... if change subject on post ... the list
> is breack?
>
> bkt
>
> 2017-05-31 1:58 GMT+02:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 30 May 2017 at 16:59, theman whosoldtheworld 
>> wrote:
>> > I discover that CC-Link is tipycal "open project" but for people who pay
>> > ... so i search for other industrial bus
>>
>> Well
>>
>> At least one other project (STMBL) is using the Mesa Smart-Serial
>> protocol. (in addition to the Mesa cards, of course).
>> It's not any sort of industrial standard, but it does seem to be fairly
>> Open.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> 
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] emc2 openProfibus

[theman whosoldtheworld]

@ andy ... I'm new to use gmail ... if change subject on post ... the list
is breack?

bkt

2017-05-31 1:58 GMT+02:00 andy pugh :

> On 30 May 2017 at 16:59, theman whosoldtheworld 
> wrote:
> > I discover that CC-Link is tipycal "open project" but for people who pay
> > ... so i search for other industrial bus
>
> Well
>
> At least one other project (STMBL) is using the Mesa Smart-Serial
> protocol. (in addition to the Mesa cards, of course).
> It's not any sort of industrial standard, but it does seem to be fairly
> Open.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] emc2 openPowerlink

[theman whosoldtheworld]

REALLY NICE ... good jog "justinbiber" (but I prefer nirvana, stone temple
pilot, soundgarden, sonic Youth etc etc ... ;))
and these is an good solution for 18 point calibration for delta robot
. and ideal for "multiple mesa-card-robot-line" ... very thanks for
these link.

In any case with the purpose of communicating with external inductive
devices in real-time-space, my research continues openPowerlink seems
to work wuite good in user-space. It provide an open master and open slave
 (different from ethercat that provide open master and with roialty
slave)

SORRY AT ALL FOR MY 1th POST SUBJECT: WAS OPENPOWERLINK not openprofibus..

bkt

2017-05-31 1:58 GMT+02:00 andy pugh :

> On 30 May 2017 at 16:59, theman whosoldtheworld 
> wrote:
> > I discover that CC-Link is tipycal "open project" but for people who pay
> > ... so i search for other industrial bus
>
> Well
>
> At least one other project (STMBL) is using the Mesa Smart-Serial
> protocol. (in addition to the Mesa cards, of course).
> It's not any sort of industrial standard, but it does seem to be fairly
> Open.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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