Re: [Emc-users] Atomic pi

[Robert Murphy]

Quick update..

After seeing JT's thread on the forum I installed Lubuntu Bionic-Beaver.
Followed the instructions for building the kernel (used make deb-pkg),
more or less used the Mint 19 recipe to build Linuxcnc (did this on my
T530 Thinkpad). Installed said kernel & packages on the Atomic Pi.

Running latency-histogram --nobase saw some very promising figures. I
had to add isolcpus=0,1,3 (no that's not a typo).

I have another kernel to try with 1000Hz timer, instead of 250Hz and
we'll see if that has any better results.

I have been trawling the interwebs for some tweaks for RT kernel but
many are old.



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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

DOn't put s SATA based SSD in a computer unless you are forced into it.
 The SATA interface is a bottleneck.Those SSDs that are made to look
like a disk are for retrofit into computers at had disks.   It made the
retrofit easy but the SATA interface "chokes" the performance. You can
buy a PCIe/M2 cards for the same price as SATA.

SATA maxes out at  600MB/Sec (0.6GB/sec while PCIe runs at 4GB/Sec and for
about the same price.  The FLASH chips are the same but they removed the
SATA interface anfd the plastic disk-shape housing

Here is an example of storage for a Linux/EMC setup that is twice as fast
as SATA and costs $25.
www.newegg.com/hp-ex900-120gb...



It is no longer worth putting spinning disks or SATA interfaces inside
computers. That technology is still good for NAS and backup and for
bulk storage of many TB of data. but not for the main storage in a
computer.   Not with prices at $25.

Also, with WiFi now pushing 1Gb/Sec you can place all your storage on a NAS
box. I keep my login directory on a server so the files and desktops of all
the computers are the save.  No need ever ever to move data.

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 9:53 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>  SATA port multiplier, or if there's an open PCIe x1 slot get a SATA card
> for it. Either can be found cheap on eBay.
>
> On Sunday, May 26, 2019, 10:17:36 AM MDT, Gene Heskett <
> ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> I'd got an older 60GB Kingston SSD in the dell running the G0704.  Linux
> only, useing around 15GB of it, full wheezy/linuxcnc install, feels 10x
> faster than spinning rust. biggest disadvantage to the dell is it has
> only one sata-II port.  Or I'd put a spinning rust on it for swap.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks everyone.  I booted from the LinuxCNC live DVD I created.   Once I 
realized that the single partition I'd reserved for Linux needed to be turned 
into two partitions, one for the swap file and one for the data disk things 
went smoothly.

Now I can boot from GRUB.  Select a number of different options including 
WIN-XP.

WIN-XP still runs and accesses both the parallel port at 0x378 and the second 
PCI plug in card Parallel port that lists i/o at 2000 got 8 bytes and 2008 for 
8 bytes with IRQ 14 available if needed.

Way back when I was doing this with a BeagleBone and Xylotex cape everything 
went smoothly because the hardware was known.  But now...

Under Linux from DMESG:
[   15.162377] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven).
[   15.446380] ppdev: user-space parallel port driver

The command 
john@g3616:~$ lspci -v

has a the end the following which suggests the PCI card has been found.  

11:0a.0 Parallel controller: Device 1c00:2170 (rev 0f) (prog-if 01 [BiDir])
Subsystem: Device 1c00:2170
Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 10
I/O ports at 2008 [size=8]
I/O ports at 2000 [size=8]

I found this site.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/18917-faq-pci-parallel-port-cards

Would I set 
loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out 0xd000 out 0xd008 in"

When I run Linux with a customized hal and config file it will crash with the 
window with the errors.  But after that I can't even run the stock single 
parallel port version without it crashing.  It's like the 0x378 port has now 
vanished.

Suggestions?
Thanks
John








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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

 SATA port multiplier, or if there's an open PCIe x1 slot get a SATA card for 
it. Either can be found cheap on eBay.

On Sunday, May 26, 2019, 10:17:36 AM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
I'd got an older 60GB Kingston SSD in the dell running the G0704.  Linux 
only, useing around 15GB of it, full wheezy/linuxcnc install, feels 10x 
faster than spinning rust. biggest disadvantage to the dell is it has 
only one sata-II port.  Or I'd put a spinning rust on it for swap.

Cheers, Gene Heskett  
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Re: [Emc-users] How come....

[Erik Christiansen]

On 26.05.19 12:48, Dave Cole wrote:
> 
> We still use BTU's for small Furnace and Air Conditioner sizing...
> For larger units its BTUs for furnaces and Tons of cooling for Air
> Conditioners.

The BTU is almost metric (within 6%):

$ units
You have: 1 btu
You want: kJ
* 1.0550559

Polish a bit off, and it'd be fully compatible. ;-)

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] How come....

[Andy Pugh]

> On 26 May 2019, at 17:48, Dave Cole  wrote:
> 
> MJs of gas would make way too much sense.

Moles of carbon would make even more sense. 


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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Sam Sokolik]

I am off by a factor of 1000 a lot

I haven't done a dual boot in a while - but remembering that it is the best
to have the windows installed first and working.  Then install linux -
there was an option to use the remaining space for linuxcnc.  IIRC - it
just works...  Grub installs and sees the windows partition and adds it as
a boot option.

sam

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 1:50 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 26 May 2019 12:29:05 pm John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Meant to say 1TB, split for 500GB for each.
> >
> All I can say is :)
>
> > > In a 1GB drive John?  I have doubts it will fit. Its got to be
> > > bigger just for a bare xp install.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 26 May 2019 12:29:05 pm John Dammeyer wrote:

> Sorry, Meant to say 1TB, split for 500GB for each.
>
All I can say is :)

> > In a 1GB drive John?  I have doubts it will fit. Its got to be
> > bigger just for a bare xp install.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 8:43 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I've started with a fresh 1GB hard drive and set up two partitions.



I suspect a typo.   1GB is rather small, did you mean 1TB?

The boot option happens before Linux starts and might not even involve
Linux at all.   For example if you have a few different Windows versions
you wanted to boot.

THere are a few ways to do this.   If the BIOS allows you to choose that
use that.  But more common is you need to install a custom boot loader
onthe drive's boot block.   SO this is not a "Linux issue"

SOme links that look good and explain it
https://truthseekers.io/everything-you-need-to-know-to-dual-boot-uefi-gpt-bios-mbr-partitions-swap-space-and-more/

https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/Windows



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Increasingly OT: [Was: Re: How come.... --> battery safety due to high current, DC relay

[Dave Cole]

There are some good reasons to use a 24 or 48 volt DC bus power system 
for smaller systems.
The chance of electrocution is pretty low for a 48 volt DC system in a 
dry environment.

Once you get above 50 volts or so things change.

24 volts is quite a practical voltage level for smaller systems.

Do a search for 24 volt inverters and you will find many.   48 volt, not 
as many.


I'm thinking hunting cabin, small cottage, larger boat, remote shed, etc.

Now if you want to do your entire house and have typical house loads it 
seems like a 120V+ DC bus system would make more sense.


Dave







On 5/21/2019 4:52 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:

On 21.05.19 00:31, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 7:55 PM Erik Christiansen 
wrote:


Switching normal loads is back to less than 100 A for less than 5 kW, but
still hard on contacts. (The contacts on the starter solenoid for an old
Caterpillar D6 are blocks of copper with a mm of silver on the surface,
to take the several hundred amps at 24v. IIUC, silver oxide conducts.)


This is why no one builds 24 or 48 volt DC power system for solar or backup
batteries.

Excuse me, but before making wildly inaccurate pronouncements, it might
be useful to make a study of what is on the market. Very many inverter
manufacturers offer 48v inverters, and most manufacturers of household
batteries sell 48v units - some sell nothing else. Take a detailed look,
please.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/comparison-table/
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/hybrid-inverter-comparison/

...

You were talking abou the cost of a high amp switch.  That si NOTHING
compared to the cost of the inverter you would need.You would need
racks of MOSFETs.  No one does that.

How very true - and the cost of a house is much greater than the cost of
a roofing tile.

Parallelling several MOSFETs to handle high current is common practice.
As I mentioned upthread, they self-share the current, and with e.g. 7
milliohms of resistance in each, there is modest dissipation in one, and
one ninth of that if you parallel three.


You all know the formula for power loss right?  i^2R.  That's "i squared R"
because the current is squeared you REALLY want to make it small.
not more than about 40  amps for a residence.

Indeed, that's why it's not necessary to parallel very many 7 milliohm
MOSFETs to handle 100 A. One on a heatsink dissipates 70 W, and four in
parallel dissipate 4.4W each, for 0.35% power loss.

That a high current at 48v is run only between the battery and inverter,
in hundreds of thousands of households around the world, has already
been explained. Yes, a PV system may run 600v DC or more to the PV
inverter. A battery inverter is a different animal, generally taking 48v
DC, and often putting out only 3 to 4 kW, as that's all some battery
banks will deliver. Many systems have both inverters, but now hybrid
inverters are coming onto the market, merging the two functions.


Also no one is every going to dichage a batter at the 100 amp rate.
you design the system so it cycles only one per day.

In the real world, that is being done daily all over the planet. Well,
the half of it in darkness at any moment, if we are to be precise.
No, not all night, but for brief multiple loads like microwaves and
electric kettles, the battery bank and inverter are designed to produce
5 kW, while pulling over 100 A from the battery. The Redflow ZnBr
battery is warranted to do that for 30 min, before dropping back to 3 kW
allowed, i.e. over 60 A.

Inverter cabling and switching is designed to handle that, you'll find.


Even with lead acid
batteries you can place a 10  amp fuse oneach one of them.   Then you
KNOW the maximum current on the switch is 10 amps.

If you wire 20 lead acid batteries in series you can have 1KW of power at
only 4 amps.
if the switch is rated at 10A you are good.

Please feel free to build your installation to your own design¹. I'm just
updating you on what is on the market, and how electrical engineers,
including this one, tend to build 'em currently.

The only circumstance in which I'd use lead-acid batteries, is as a
consumable to fill the gap until an adequate battery technology became
available or more cost effective. Even the more expensive "deep cycle"
LA batteries have quite limited lives at 50% DoD, and as outlined
upthread, they're expensive if discharged much less.

Erik

¹ I know of one battery inverter which will take 120 Vdc input, but none
   at 240 Vdc.


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Re: [Emc-users] How come....

[Dave Cole]

We still use BTU's for small Furnace and Air Conditioner sizing...
For larger units its BTUs for furnaces and Tons of cooling for Air 
Conditioners.
Everyone knows that 12,000 btus is required to melt 1 ton of ice.  Hence 
12,000 btus is equal to "one ton" of cooling.
Who would have known that we could figure out some method to represent a 
measure of energy by a measure of weight!
So its  a value that we can relate to. And its not at all confusing! 
:-/


BTUs.. *defined* as the amount of heat required to raise the 
temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit


So now you know why we can't get in gear with the metric system.  
Nothing would work.   We would have to discard all of our old notions of 
hot and cold.
We would be buying the wrong size air conditioners and furnaces!   Our 
houses would be way too hot when we set the thermostat to 70 degrees C...


Gas BTU's  ha ha ha... no, we have invented a different unit of 
measure called the Therm.

A Therm is 100,000 BTUS of gas.
Currently a Therm of natural gas costs about $0.75 for me right now.
On my gas bill, I get a meter reading from the meter on the side of my 
house.   That meter reading is based on 1/2 psi gas delivery, 
unfortunately I have 2 psi gas delivery, so they apply a correction 
factor to get cubic feet that is then translated into therms based upon 
some testing that occurred on their gas some time ago for heat content.


I think my gas bill is more of an estimation of my gas use rather than 
an actual measurement!


MJs of gas would make way too much sense.

Dave




Wikipedia suggests that you still use BTUs for gas?



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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Sorry, Meant to say 1TB, split for 500GB for each.

> >
> In a 1GB drive John?  I have doubts it will fit. Its got to be bigger
> just for a bare xp install.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 26 May 2019 11:40:59 am John Dammeyer wrote:

> I've started with a fresh 1GB hard drive and set up two partitions. 
> One now has WIN-XP and MACH3.  The other is still unformatted and
> ready for LinuxCNC.
>
> How do I install LinuxCNC so the system is dual boot?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
In a 1GB drive John?  I have doubts it will fit. Its got to be bigger 
just for a bare xp install.

120 GB Adata SSD's with sata-III interfaces are $30 at newegg. They will 
even work on a usb2 adapter, but the 240GB for another tenner won't, 
they need a usb3 port, the ones with the blue insert where the usb2's 
are white.

I'd got an older 60GB Kingston SSD in the dell running the G0704.  Linux 
only, useing around 15GB of it, full wheezy/linuxcnc install, feels 10x 
faster than spinning rust. biggest disadvantage to the dell is it has 
only one sata-II port.  Or I'd put a spinning rust on it for swap.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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[Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I've started with a fresh 1GB hard drive and set up two partitions.  One now 
has WIN-XP and MACH3.  The other is still unformatted and ready for LinuxCNC.  

How do I install LinuxCNC so the system is dual boot?

Thanks
John




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