Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
There are addins now that post process gcode to convert line segments to G2/G3. -Original Message- From: Andy Pugh Sent: Monday, 26 July 2021 9:08 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers > On 25 Jul 2021, at 22:56, fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote: > > (all gcode interpreters still slice an arc in to line segments) This isn t their fault, there are no curves in STL. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
> On 25 Jul 2021, at 22:56, fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote: > > (all gcode interpreters still slice an > arc in to line segments) This isn’t their fault, there are no curves in STL. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
Yes, I know I often fiddle with the output of Cura to do things like switch off the bed heater after the first few layers, there's probably a setting in Cura that does that but I haven't found it yet. The point is that slicers generally have more settings than CAM programs because they have to. I posted an OT about this before, but there are people working on a different approach where you basically draw a simple part (you wouldn't bother to open your CAD package for) and g code is produced. It's the equivalent of "conversational" CNC for simple jobs, fascinating project if nothing else: https://hackaday.com/2021/07/19/3d-print-in-the-air-with-a-little-software-support/ More info: https://github.com/analysis230/analysis230.github.io I think it runs in a web browser like this: https://analysis230.github.io/index.html Martin From: Rob C the 3d printer gcode is understandable, and you could handball simple shapes (I've done a couple for various test and setup things). but you would really struggle to do the infill as well as a slicer to still provide strength and minimise infill https://3dprinterly.com/what-is-the-best-infill-pattern-for-3d-printing/ being an additive process you couldn't run it through a mill. as it sort of works in reverse (and you'd end up with a pocket if you flipped the z direction) but we sort of digress. from just running something like marlin to running lcnc comparison as gcode is essentially just motion with a bit of additional icing on top. (if there was a board for Mesa hardware to take my tmc2209 drives (or I had the time to interface one to a 7i92 I'm happy to convert my machine to linuxcnc and run some cura gcode through it) On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 21:32 Martin Dobbins, wrote: > It is like the relationship of using CAD to design a part then using CAM > to produce the g code to machine that part. Some people know enough about g > code that they often don't use CAM, or are able to "massage" the output of > CAM to produce different results. Others may not care. > > CAD can also produce files for slicers (CAM) which produce g code for 3d > printers which is apparently so complicated that no human being can > understand it sufficiently to write their own code. Yet it is the same g > code fed to the components of a printer rather than (say) a milling machine. > > Martin > > > From: Rob C > > > is this not just reinventing the wheel for the sake of it? > > what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? > > I am not trying to downplay the idea / application or lcnc or its > capability. (dispite it may appear so) > > 1, 18:55 Chris Albertson, > wrote: > > > 99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer > > controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid > > way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that > > the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do > > very tiny movements > > > > I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: > > > > > > > > What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for > > > > controlling FFF/FDM printers? > > > > > > I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so > > > the motion is not as smooth as one might like. > > > > > > There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used > > > E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. > > > > > > (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) > > > > > > -- > > > atp > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > > lunatics." > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Albertson > > Redondo Beach, California > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing l
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
I used a beagle bone with machine kit to drive my mini-kossel. I had to write a few macros implement the M codes (100,104,106,107,109,140,190). But that was about it. The axis UI is pretty sluggish on the beagle bone. I did this at a time when only 8-bit boards were available. LCNC has better homing, and it does arcs correctly (all gcode interpreters still slice an arc in to line segments) Frank -Original Message- From: Bari Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2021 6:11 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for controlling FFF/FDM printers? ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
the 3d printer gcode is understandable, and you could handball simple shapes (I've done a couple for various test and setup things). but you would really struggle to do the infill as well as a slicer to still provide strength and minimise infill https://3dprinterly.com/what-is-the-best-infill-pattern-for-3d-printing/ being an additive process you couldn't run it through a mill. as it sort of works in reverse (and you'd end up with a pocket if you flipped the z direction) but we sort of digress. from just running something like marlin to running lcnc comparison as gcode is essentially just motion with a bit of additional icing on top. (if there was a board for Mesa hardware to take my tmc2209 drives (or I had the time to interface one to a 7i92 I'm happy to convert my machine to linuxcnc and run some cura gcode through it) On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 21:32 Martin Dobbins, wrote: > It is like the relationship of using CAD to design a part then using CAM > to produce the g code to machine that part. Some people know enough about g > code that they often don't use CAM, or are able to "massage" the output of > CAM to produce different results. Others may not care. > > CAD can also produce files for slicers (CAM) which produce g code for 3d > printers which is apparently so complicated that no human being can > understand it sufficiently to write their own code. Yet it is the same g > code fed to the components of a printer rather than (say) a milling machine. > > Martin > > > From: Rob C > > > is this not just reinventing the wheel for the sake of it? > > what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? > > I am not trying to downplay the idea / application or lcnc or its > capability. (dispite it may appear so) > > 1, 18:55 Chris Albertson, > wrote: > > > 99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer > > controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid > > way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that > > the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do > > very tiny movements > > > > I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: > > > > > > > > What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for > > > > controlling FFF/FDM printers? > > > > > > I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so > > > the motion is not as smooth as one might like. > > > > > > There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used > > > E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. > > > > > > (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) > > > > > > -- > > > atp > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > > lunatics." > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Albertson > > Redondo Beach, California > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
thanks Andy, but Marlin does do Delta robots / configurations too (never used / set one up myself) https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M665.html On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 21:04 Andy Pugh, wrote: > > > > On 25 Jul 2021, at 19:48, Rob C wrote: > > > > what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? > > One thing is kinematics. If you have a non-trivial kins then LinuxCNC can > handle it. > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
It is like the relationship of using CAD to design a part then using CAM to produce the g code to machine that part. Some people know enough about g code that they often don't use CAM, or are able to "massage" the output of CAM to produce different results. Others may not care. CAD can also produce files for slicers (CAM) which produce g code for 3d printers which is apparently so complicated that no human being can understand it sufficiently to write their own code. Yet it is the same g code fed to the components of a printer rather than (say) a milling machine. Martin From: Rob C is this not just reinventing the wheel for the sake of it? what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? I am not trying to downplay the idea / application or lcnc or its capability. (dispite it may appear so) 1, 18:55 Chris Albertson, wrote: > 99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer > controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid > way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that > the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do > very tiny movements > > I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: > > > On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: > > > > > > What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for > > > controlling FFF/FDM printers? > > > > I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so > > the motion is not as smooth as one might like. > > > > There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used > > E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. > > > > (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
> On 25 Jul 2021, at 19:48, Rob C wrote: > > what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? One thing is kinematics. If you have a non-trivial kins then LinuxCNC can handle it. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
I've been happy with LinuxCNC 2.8 as-is for running my FFF printer. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky On 7/24/21 2:10 PM, Bari wrote: What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for controlling FFF/FDM printers? ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
LCNC can easily handle things like a FDM/FFF that over-molds parts or is built like a lathe and deposits thermoplastics or uses a syringe or peristaltic pump. The slicers really come up short. They do make up for the lack of a trajectory planner in some FFF/FDM firmware. On 7/25/21 1:46 PM, Rob C wrote: is this not just reinventing the wheel for the sake of it? what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? I am not trying to downplay the idea / application or lcnc or its capability. (dispite it may appear so) I ask because I run marlin (free) with octoprint (octopi) (again free) on a Bigtreetech-SKR 1.4 Turbo , with 5x TMC2209 stepper motor drives running as uart input. (about £70)... it runs 2x extruders and an XYZ 300x300x500 frame with a 230v heated bed. it's not like I can replace marlin with lcnc on that setup / board? so I'd need different hardware (at more cost and time to configure) and it will probably generate the same output using the same slicer. the acceleration is taken care of in the tmc2209 drives and is nothing to do with the slicer (I use cura (again free plus seems to meet my needs)) to speed up my prints I use a larger nozzle, given most of the stuff I have done has been biggish. not adverse to using lcnc, just not seeing an advantage in cost, time to build, assemble, programme or finished product. what am I missing? On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 18:55 Chris Albertson, wrote: 99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do very tiny movements I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for controlling FFF/FDM printers? I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so the motion is not as smooth as one might like. There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
is this not just reinventing the wheel for the sake of it? what is the benefit of using lcnc for fff/fdm printer? I am not trying to downplay the idea / application or lcnc or its capability. (dispite it may appear so) I ask because I run marlin (free) with octoprint (octopi) (again free) on a Bigtreetech-SKR 1.4 Turbo , with 5x TMC2209 stepper motor drives running as uart input. (about £70)... it runs 2x extruders and an XYZ 300x300x500 frame with a 230v heated bed. it's not like I can replace marlin with lcnc on that setup / board? so I'd need different hardware (at more cost and time to configure) and it will probably generate the same output using the same slicer. the acceleration is taken care of in the tmc2209 drives and is nothing to do with the slicer (I use cura (again free plus seems to meet my needs)) to speed up my prints I use a larger nozzle, given most of the stuff I have done has been biggish. not adverse to using lcnc, just not seeing an advantage in cost, time to build, assemble, programme or finished product. what am I missing? On Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 18:55 Chris Albertson, wrote: > 99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer > controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid > way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that > the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do > very tiny movements > > I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: > > > On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: > > > > > > What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for > > > controlling FFF/FDM printers? > > > > I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so > > the motion is not as smooth as one might like. > > > > There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used > > E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. > > > > (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Missing Features in LCNC for FFF/FDM Printers
99% of the "magic" in 3D printing happens in the slicer. All the printer controller needs to do is move the steppers in a very stupid way.Acceleration limits and such are all done in the slicer. Notice that the g-code files for some parts are MILLIONS of lines of g-code that do very tiny movements I still argue that the only thing LCNC lacks is "works out of the box". On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:43 PM andy pugh wrote: > On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Bari wrote: > > > > What are the missing desired or required features in LCNC for > > controlling FFF/FDM printers? > > I have heard (but not tested) that extruder moves are not blended, so > the motion is not as smooth as one might like. > > There might be something to be said for a G-code interpreter that used > E as the extruder, and supported the other 3DP-specific codes. > > (LInuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters, this is doable) > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users