Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I'm puzzled.  I didn't have any of those kind of problems setting up my 
Bergerda AC Servos.  Other than screwing up with position mode verses velocity 
mode.  And you're sure the drive is set for velocity mode?

All the other parameters can be set from the front panel of the Bergerda drive 
and the HiWin D2 doesn't look any different.
https://www.hiwin.us/wp-content/uploads/d2_drive_user_manual.pdf

When I had problems with one issue I contacted the factory in China and Donald 
Chen, the sales rep, had one of the engineers make a short video on his cell 
phone which he then emailed to me showing the exact locations to change and 
what to change them too. 

So not sure why you need tuning software. 

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Leonardo Marsaglia [mailto:ldmarsag...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-24-23 6:51 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC
> 
> Hi guys again and thanks for all the answers :)
> 
> Well, indeed the problem as Todd suggested is because of the driver
> limiting acceleration and velocity. I found in the manual that this can be
> changed and they recommend using a value 10 times higher than what LCNC
> commands. This is to avoid this peaking to max speed/acceleration problem
> of course.
> 
> The only drawback is that the only way to change these settings is using
> their software and a PC. At least that's what the manual shows.
> 
> 
> 
> El mar, 24 ene 2023 a las 17:19, gene heskett ()
> escribi�:
> 
> > On 1/24/23 11:07, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > > This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
> > > well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..
> >
> > My experience has been the opposite Sam. I have no PID's in the config
> > to run my Sheldon 11x54, I put a 3NM on the Z cause the carriage weighs
> > around 20 maybe more pounds. In all cases here I'm using the 3 phase
> > version, turns 1.2 degree per full step cycle.
> >
> > But I didn't have room for the length of a 3NM behind the new apron, so
> > I put a 2NM on to drive X.
> >
> > I took off a 1200 inlb nema34 as it could only do a g0 at 60ipm on a
> > good day, and took a nema 24 off the x because its max w/o a stall was
> > maybe 29 ipm on a good day. And both were noisy as can be.
> >
> > With the 2 nema-23 3 phase stepper/servo's, Z now moves at 120 ipm, and
> > x moves at 60 ipm, and at working speeds cannot be heard, only the belt
> > swish driving the spindle. Like watching Casper the ghost turning the
> > cranks now.
> >
> > I can position a chuck jaw to be hit with a missdirected tool at 10 ipm,
> > it hits the jaw sees the stop, and stops lcnc in about a millisecond.
> > The chip in the tool isn't damaged, and the jaw wasn't marked.  The
> > motors run cold because the error controls the motor current. They WILL
> > GET to where they are told to go, or they will STOP LCNC in its tracks
> > midstep  before the part is damaged.  FWIW, that sort of a stop has yet
> > to happen while its working.
> >
> > I have a 6040 gantry mill, and the Z was too puny even after I binned
> > the electronics that came with it and replaced it all with LCNC feeding
> > 2m542's running on 42 volts. It's xy went from 15 ipm to 200 ipm but z
> > could just barely lift that water cooled spindle, but a 1NM
> > stepper/servo acts like it could lift another 25 pounds at 30 ipm.
> >
> > When I needed a B axis to make the vise screw I'm going to sell if I
> > can, I made several printed harmonic drives but could not get the speed
> > to spin the screw while I carved it. I had bought a 5/1 worm on spec 4
> > or 5 years ago, so I put a 3NM on it with a printed shaft adapter, and
> > printed the chuck for the slow end of the worm driving a 2x2 hard maple
> > stick about 2 feet long. I can carve a screw at 200 rpm on the screw.
> >
> > There's more backlash in the cheap worm than motor error but I'm carving
> > a 2 start thread that fits perfectly by carving the 2nd start on its way
> > back to start a new 1st start. The hard maple stick is turning backwards
> > then. 180 degrees out of phase with the fwd motion.
> >
> > And Ali-Express is getting plumb reasonable on them right now.
> >
> > [snip Leonardo's problem, this isn't really part of that thread.]
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >   - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Windows software for tuning is pretty standard even on the more expensive 
integrated servo systems. Teknic Clearpath needs Windows software for 
configuration and tuning, as does one Chines brand that I’ve used.

> On Jan 24, 2023, at 8:50 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys again and thanks for all the answers :)
> 
> Well, indeed the problem as Todd suggested is because of the driver
> limiting acceleration and velocity. I found in the manual that this can be
> changed and they recommend using a value 10 times higher than what LCNC
> commands. This is to avoid this peaking to max speed/acceleration problem
> of course.
> 
> The only drawback is that the only way to change these settings is using
> their software and a PC. At least that's what the manual shows.
> 
> 
> 
> El mar, 24 ene 2023 a las 17:19, gene heskett ()
> escribió:
> 
>> On 1/24/23 11:07, Sam Sokolik wrote:
>>> This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
>>> well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..
>> 
>> My experience has been the opposite Sam. I have no PID's in the config
>> to run my Sheldon 11x54, I put a 3NM on the Z cause the carriage weighs
>> around 20 maybe more pounds. In all cases here I'm using the 3 phase
>> version, turns 1.2 degree per full step cycle.
>> 
>> But I didn't have room for the length of a 3NM behind the new apron, so
>> I put a 2NM on to drive X.
>> 
>> I took off a 1200 inlb nema34 as it could only do a g0 at 60ipm on a
>> good day, and took a nema 24 off the x because its max w/o a stall was
>> maybe 29 ipm on a good day. And both were noisy as can be.
>> 
>> With the 2 nema-23 3 phase stepper/servo's, Z now moves at 120 ipm, and
>> x moves at 60 ipm, and at working speeds cannot be heard, only the belt
>> swish driving the spindle. Like watching Casper the ghost turning the
>> cranks now.
>> 
>> I can position a chuck jaw to be hit with a missdirected tool at 10 ipm,
>> it hits the jaw sees the stop, and stops lcnc in about a millisecond.
>> The chip in the tool isn't damaged, and the jaw wasn't marked.  The
>> motors run cold because the error controls the motor current. They WILL
>> GET to where they are told to go, or they will STOP LCNC in its tracks
>> midstep  before the part is damaged.  FWIW, that sort of a stop has yet
>> to happen while its working.
>> 
>> I have a 6040 gantry mill, and the Z was too puny even after I binned
>> the electronics that came with it and replaced it all with LCNC feeding
>> 2m542's running on 42 volts. It's xy went from 15 ipm to 200 ipm but z
>> could just barely lift that water cooled spindle, but a 1NM
>> stepper/servo acts like it could lift another 25 pounds at 30 ipm.
>> 
>> When I needed a B axis to make the vise screw I'm going to sell if I
>> can, I made several printed harmonic drives but could not get the speed
>> to spin the screw while I carved it. I had bought a 5/1 worm on spec 4
>> or 5 years ago, so I put a 3NM on it with a printed shaft adapter, and
>> printed the chuck for the slow end of the worm driving a 2x2 hard maple
>> stick about 2 feet long. I can carve a screw at 200 rpm on the screw.
>> 
>> There's more backlash in the cheap worm than motor error but I'm carving
>> a 2 start thread that fits perfectly by carving the 2nd start on its way
>> back to start a new 1st start. The hard maple stick is turning backwards
>> then. 180 degrees out of phase with the fwd motion.
>> 
>> And Ali-Express is getting plumb reasonable on them right now.
>> 
>> [snip Leonardo's problem, this isn't really part of that thread.]
>> 
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hi guys again and thanks for all the answers :)

Well, indeed the problem as Todd suggested is because of the driver
limiting acceleration and velocity. I found in the manual that this can be
changed and they recommend using a value 10 times higher than what LCNC
commands. This is to avoid this peaking to max speed/acceleration problem
of course.

The only drawback is that the only way to change these settings is using
their software and a PC. At least that's what the manual shows.



El mar, 24 ene 2023 a las 17:19, gene heskett ()
escribió:

> On 1/24/23 11:07, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
> > well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..
>
> My experience has been the opposite Sam. I have no PID's in the config
> to run my Sheldon 11x54, I put a 3NM on the Z cause the carriage weighs
> around 20 maybe more pounds. In all cases here I'm using the 3 phase
> version, turns 1.2 degree per full step cycle.
>
> But I didn't have room for the length of a 3NM behind the new apron, so
> I put a 2NM on to drive X.
>
> I took off a 1200 inlb nema34 as it could only do a g0 at 60ipm on a
> good day, and took a nema 24 off the x because its max w/o a stall was
> maybe 29 ipm on a good day. And both were noisy as can be.
>
> With the 2 nema-23 3 phase stepper/servo's, Z now moves at 120 ipm, and
> x moves at 60 ipm, and at working speeds cannot be heard, only the belt
> swish driving the spindle. Like watching Casper the ghost turning the
> cranks now.
>
> I can position a chuck jaw to be hit with a missdirected tool at 10 ipm,
> it hits the jaw sees the stop, and stops lcnc in about a millisecond.
> The chip in the tool isn't damaged, and the jaw wasn't marked.  The
> motors run cold because the error controls the motor current. They WILL
> GET to where they are told to go, or they will STOP LCNC in its tracks
> midstep  before the part is damaged.  FWIW, that sort of a stop has yet
> to happen while its working.
>
> I have a 6040 gantry mill, and the Z was too puny even after I binned
> the electronics that came with it and replaced it all with LCNC feeding
> 2m542's running on 42 volts. It's xy went from 15 ipm to 200 ipm but z
> could just barely lift that water cooled spindle, but a 1NM
> stepper/servo acts like it could lift another 25 pounds at 30 ipm.
>
> When I needed a B axis to make the vise screw I'm going to sell if I
> can, I made several printed harmonic drives but could not get the speed
> to spin the screw while I carved it. I had bought a 5/1 worm on spec 4
> or 5 years ago, so I put a 3NM on it with a printed shaft adapter, and
> printed the chuck for the slow end of the worm driving a 2x2 hard maple
> stick about 2 feet long. I can carve a screw at 200 rpm on the screw.
>
> There's more backlash in the cheap worm than motor error but I'm carving
> a 2 start thread that fits perfectly by carving the 2nd start on its way
> back to start a new 1st start. The hard maple stick is turning backwards
> then. 180 degrees out of phase with the fwd motion.
>
> And Ali-Express is getting plumb reasonable on them right now.
>
> [snip Leonardo's problem, this isn't really part of that thread.]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[andrew beck]

Interesting discussion here and totally see what people are saying.

Just thought I would put a link to my machine shop website up.

BeckCNC.co.nz

All CNC machines run linuxcnc.

And we have 4th axis units running etc.  Rigid tapping.  Random position
toolchanger.

Just setting up through spindle coolant now.

What I don't have and would like to implement is conversational cycles in
the control.  And auto probing cycles.  (I do have z axis digitising
probing sussed now

But cam is so fast that I'm not to concerned.  I can get from opening cam
laptop to running parts in under 10 minutes now most of the time.

I know linuxcnc has them but haven't bothered to set them up yet.


Anyway you guys might be interested in this.

And all the awesome developers might be interested to see what we can do
with all their hard work.

Beck CNC.co.nz

Regards

Andrew

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023, 10:30 Moray Cuthill via Emc-users, <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> > The point is I've had absolutely no luck in convincing anyone to move
> from MACH3 or any other CNC 'package' to LinuxCNC.  Why?
>
> I spent a good few days trying LCNC, as I was intrigued and wanted to try
> out EtherCAT, as I like the idea of a simpler setup (no step/dir
> wiring/issues, less wiring, and the drives give IO reducing the need for
> additional IO boards), however as it stands, I'm probably going to pay the
> money for a Vital systems EtherCAT board to go with Mach 4.
>
> In terms of LCNC issues I faced.
> RPi4 eventually worked, but if you updated the available image, it bricked
> the installation. Also for some unknown reason, you couldn't open Chrome on
> the LCNC install.
> I bought an Odroid H3+, but due to being new hardware required Bookworm to
> fully work (earlier kernels didn't support the graphics).
> I couldn't get the EtherCAT libraries to compile on the H3, and there were
> issues with any LCNC screen that used Python (appeared to be a
> dependency issue change with Bookworm)
>
> I eventually removed the mini-ITX board from my little CNC mill (runs a
> Dynomotion KFlop setup), which let me install the stable LCNC release, and
> get EtherCAT working. However, there is an issue in the EtherCAT stack,
> which prevented the drives from enabling correctly, unless I started LCNC
> then plugged the CAT cable in.
> Not a major issue for initial testing, but nobody could really answer why
> it was doing that. But if I also coded in a Berkhoff module, without the
> CAT cable connected, LCNC wouldn't start due to error generated by the
> Berkhoff module not being connected.
>
> I spent a good amount of time trying various options, but the big issue I
> kept coming back to is LCNC is *very* fragmented.
> Documentation is spread across various places (official website, wiki,
> stickied forum posts)
> Although there appears to be a 'core' development team, there appears to be
> quite a lot of people doing their own thing.
>
> For me, for LCNC to become a valid option, it needs the entire project
> rationalised.
> Develop it so it works well on one set base OS.
> Reduce the number of screens, and make the screens that are kept far more
> functional and polished.
> Make configuration easier (editing basic configurations, shouldn't involve
> manually editing files. There should be a GUI setting editor that covers
> 90% of common machine setups - I'm happy with manual files, but the
> majority are not)
>
> To use Mach as a comparison on a basic machine.
> You take a Windows computer. You install Mach. You open Mach. You open some
> settings windows to set up the controller and assign pins. You open another
> window and configure machine parameters. You should now have a functioning
> machine. If you don't, you re-open the settings windows and change what you
> need to.
> If you want to change screen, you can change screen. If you want to edit
> the screen, you can edit the screen with a screen editor.
>
> Now think about all the steps involved in setting up a similar basic
> machine in LCNC, and then what you need to do if you want to swap screens
> or even edit a screen?
> Download a quite large ISO. Install the ISO and hope it works with your
> chosen PC hardware. Load LCNC. Select one of the plethora of screen
> options. Realise you need to run a totally separate configurator (assuming
> you're going PP, or MESA). Hope you enter the settings correctly. Re-open
> LCNC. If you want to change any settings, you need to close and re-open
> LCNC. If the configurator hasn't done/can't do what you need, you then need
> to learn to manually edit the settings file. Eventually you get a machine
> running.
> Then you want to edit or try a different screen?
> You can see where I'm going with this. LCNC is not currently beginner
> friendly.
>
> As it stands, LCNC feels like there are lots of people doing their own
> thing, with no thought to a more overall plan to make LCNC a more mature
> product.
> The comment that springs to mind is "Jack of all trades, m

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Moray Cuthill via Emc-users]

> The point is I've had absolutely no luck in convincing anyone to move
from MACH3 or any other CNC 'package' to LinuxCNC.  Why?

I spent a good few days trying LCNC, as I was intrigued and wanted to try
out EtherCAT, as I like the idea of a simpler setup (no step/dir
wiring/issues, less wiring, and the drives give IO reducing the need for
additional IO boards), however as it stands, I'm probably going to pay the
money for a Vital systems EtherCAT board to go with Mach 4.

In terms of LCNC issues I faced.
RPi4 eventually worked, but if you updated the available image, it bricked
the installation. Also for some unknown reason, you couldn't open Chrome on
the LCNC install.
I bought an Odroid H3+, but due to being new hardware required Bookworm to
fully work (earlier kernels didn't support the graphics).
I couldn't get the EtherCAT libraries to compile on the H3, and there were
issues with any LCNC screen that used Python (appeared to be a
dependency issue change with Bookworm)

I eventually removed the mini-ITX board from my little CNC mill (runs a
Dynomotion KFlop setup), which let me install the stable LCNC release, and
get EtherCAT working. However, there is an issue in the EtherCAT stack,
which prevented the drives from enabling correctly, unless I started LCNC
then plugged the CAT cable in.
Not a major issue for initial testing, but nobody could really answer why
it was doing that. But if I also coded in a Berkhoff module, without the
CAT cable connected, LCNC wouldn't start due to error generated by the
Berkhoff module not being connected.

I spent a good amount of time trying various options, but the big issue I
kept coming back to is LCNC is *very* fragmented.
Documentation is spread across various places (official website, wiki,
stickied forum posts)
Although there appears to be a 'core' development team, there appears to be
quite a lot of people doing their own thing.

For me, for LCNC to become a valid option, it needs the entire project
rationalised.
Develop it so it works well on one set base OS.
Reduce the number of screens, and make the screens that are kept far more
functional and polished.
Make configuration easier (editing basic configurations, shouldn't involve
manually editing files. There should be a GUI setting editor that covers
90% of common machine setups - I'm happy with manual files, but the
majority are not)

To use Mach as a comparison on a basic machine.
You take a Windows computer. You install Mach. You open Mach. You open some
settings windows to set up the controller and assign pins. You open another
window and configure machine parameters. You should now have a functioning
machine. If you don't, you re-open the settings windows and change what you
need to.
If you want to change screen, you can change screen. If you want to edit
the screen, you can edit the screen with a screen editor.

Now think about all the steps involved in setting up a similar basic
machine in LCNC, and then what you need to do if you want to swap screens
or even edit a screen?
Download a quite large ISO. Install the ISO and hope it works with your
chosen PC hardware. Load LCNC. Select one of the plethora of screen
options. Realise you need to run a totally separate configurator (assuming
you're going PP, or MESA). Hope you enter the settings correctly. Re-open
LCNC. If you want to change any settings, you need to close and re-open
LCNC. If the configurator hasn't done/can't do what you need, you then need
to learn to manually edit the settings file. Eventually you get a machine
running.
Then you want to edit or try a different screen?
You can see where I'm going with this. LCNC is not currently beginner
friendly.

As it stands, LCNC feels like there are lots of people doing their own
thing, with no thought to a more overall plan to make LCNC a more mature
product.
The comment that springs to mind is "Jack of all trades, master of none".

Moray


On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 20:12, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Hi Rob,
> No.  I use AlibreCAD and the now old and discontinued AlibreCAM which is
> the integrated Mecsoft VisualCAM.
>
> As for I/O I think you might be missing the point.  I've certainly had
> enough people stress to me the ease of setting up their Centroid system.
> They are happy with 3 axis and possibly 4.
>
> The almost vitriol resistance to LinuxCNC is really quite amazing
> considering how powerful it is.  But it's not easy to set up.  As the
> tutorial on Tormach's install shows, get the wrong MESA version and it
> resets and updates and you lose everything.  Handy if you have a Tormach
> and don't want to think about the underlying OS.  Difficult when you get
> into asking users to start editing files on non-Tormach machines.
>
> So here's a suggestion since you were originally asking about Tormach.
> Why not create a tutorial with diagrams for a simple 4 axis system using
> the Raspberry Pi4,  7i92 from MESA (7 in stock today) and two of the
> Chinese BoBs.  (I reverse engineered them so I have t

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Todd Zuercher]

I'd like see the retrofit CNC package on the market (other than Linuxcnc) that 
can run an 8 head/spindle gang router, with individual Z axis and VFD control 
for each spindle.  I'm sorry but freedom of customization comes at the cost of 
complexity.  If you want the freedom to be able to use/run almost anything, 
you're going to have to know something about both the hardware and software.  
You want simple buy some simple 4 axis all in one stepper box and plug it in.

Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  The companies willing to support and hold the 
hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning anything, charge 
accordingly.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 1:39 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale 
> > adoption of LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
>
> There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are _all_ 
> terrible?
>

I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_ terrible.

Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out the door 
and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he just 
bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.

At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free Fusion 360 
con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.

OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.

So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available including even 
AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.

Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube videos 
become his other source of information and education.  The most interesting 
ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of subscribers that in fact are 
really long mostly to have multiple advertisers.  But at the time he's not 
aware that the videos are short on information, long on con for supporting lots 
of advertising.

IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the poster 
is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How interesting to 
watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth making chips.  Oh, and 
now another advertisement.

So someone on a forum recommends MESA.
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3Froute%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26path%3D83_84%26product_id%3D215&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QsuaNDdgukaAklsVBzraskOqkJrgDYP%2B7e9BcWa62nI%3D&reserved=0
Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no diagram like the ACORN 
one.  So no idea where to start...

Oh but then someone suggests
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3Froute%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26product_id%3D381%26search%3D7i92&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lNSWiCwuqqIMsYjHAEfR9JqJAjsWNK9DeF9GsKztVJg%3D&reserved=0

Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and cheap too.
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F33015669728.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LclFcxiqe05h7ZMNmrFS3%2Fri1wQ7cRfBl1KFG0z51OQ%3D&reserved=0

Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these new 
step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct coupled or with 
belts and pulleys?

So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.  He 
used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per the 
youtube video.  Making chips.

And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so LCNC user 
interfaces to use.

The above is I think the typical thought processes.

I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to figure out 
whether I should spend $400 for a touch screen HDMI 21" screen or some other 
user interface.  Really miss the MACROs from MACH3 though.  I think that's 
what's called the conversational int

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[gene heskett]

On 1/24/23 15:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Rob,
No.  I use AlibreCAD and the now old and discontinued AlibreCAM which is the 
integrated Mecsoft VisualCAM.

As for I/O I think you might be missing the point.  I've certainly had enough 
people stress to me the ease of setting up their Centroid system.  They are 
happy with 3 axis and possibly 4.

The almost vitriol resistance to LinuxCNC is really quite amazing considering 
how powerful it is.  But it's not easy to set up.  As the tutorial on Tormach's 
install shows, get the wrong MESA version and it resets and updates and you 
lose everything.  Handy if you have a Tormach and don't want to think about the 
underlying OS.  Difficult when you get into asking users to start editing files 
on non-Tormach machines.

So here's a suggestion since you were originally asking about Tormach.  Why not 
create a tutorial with diagrams for a simple 4 axis system using the Raspberry 
Pi4,  7i92 from MESA (7 in stock today) and two of the Chinese BoBs.  (I 
reverse engineered them so I have the schematic).

Of course this should also specify exactly how to set up one of the common 
smaller mills.   Maybe something like this:
https://www.busybeetools.com/products/milling-machine-with-digital-readout-cx601.html
Drawings for the brackets.  Motor selection.  Power supply.  The works.

Or even just AXIS instead of Tormach.

The point is I've had absolutely no luck in convincing anyone to move from 
MACH3 or any other CNC 'package' to LinuxCNC.  Why?  That's the question we 
need to answer.

John

[...]
Be carefull what you ask for John. I'm all in favor of the growth, but 
really, if this list is suddenly flooded with winders escapees, there 
aren't enough of us to take care of $dayjob, and support the 
re-education of 10x the windoze educated. IMO the growth should be paced 
at the level where there are enough of us that can answer the questions 
that will arise.


Those that do have winders have a leg up on me. I refuse to contaminate 
my mind with winblows stuff, I have only bought one machine, an hp lappy 
I bought to go on the road when I was doing some broadcast consulting 
after I retired, It only took about 3 days for me to stick a linux 
install cd in the drive. That die was cast when the broadcom radio in 
the lappy could not be used by the xp that it came with.  Today I build 
my own or buy used w/o an hd or the windows sticker.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[gene heskett]

On 1/24/23 11:07, Sam Sokolik wrote:

This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..


My experience has been the opposite Sam. I have no PID's in the config 
to run my Sheldon 11x54, I put a 3NM on the Z cause the carriage weighs 
around 20 maybe more pounds. In all cases here I'm using the 3 phase 
version, turns 1.2 degree per full step cycle.


But I didn't have room for the length of a 3NM behind the new apron, so 
I put a 2NM on to drive X.


I took off a 1200 inlb nema34 as it could only do a g0 at 60ipm on a 
good day, and took a nema 24 off the x because its max w/o a stall was 
maybe 29 ipm on a good day. And both were noisy as can be.


With the 2 nema-23 3 phase stepper/servo's, Z now moves at 120 ipm, and 
x moves at 60 ipm, and at working speeds cannot be heard, only the belt 
swish driving the spindle. Like watching Casper the ghost turning the 
cranks now.


I can position a chuck jaw to be hit with a missdirected tool at 10 ipm, 
it hits the jaw sees the stop, and stops lcnc in about a millisecond. 
The chip in the tool isn't damaged, and the jaw wasn't marked.  The 
motors run cold because the error controls the motor current. They WILL 
GET to where they are told to go, or they will STOP LCNC in its tracks 
midstep  before the part is damaged.  FWIW, that sort of a stop has yet 
to happen while its working.


I have a 6040 gantry mill, and the Z was too puny even after I binned 
the electronics that came with it and replaced it all with LCNC feeding 
2m542's running on 42 volts. It's xy went from 15 ipm to 200 ipm but z 
could just barely lift that water cooled spindle, but a 1NM 
stepper/servo acts like it could lift another 25 pounds at 30 ipm.


When I needed a B axis to make the vise screw I'm going to sell if I 
can, I made several printed harmonic drives but could not get the speed 
to spin the screw while I carved it. I had bought a 5/1 worm on spec 4 
or 5 years ago, so I put a 3NM on it with a printed shaft adapter, and 
printed the chuck for the slow end of the worm driving a 2x2 hard maple 
stick about 2 feet long. I can carve a screw at 200 rpm on the screw.


There's more backlash in the cheap worm than motor error but I'm carving 
a 2 start thread that fits perfectly by carving the 2nd start on its way 
back to start a new 1st start. The hard maple stick is turning backwards 
then. 180 degrees out of phase with the fwd motion.


And Ali-Express is getting plumb reasonable on them right now.

[snip Leonardo's problem, this isn't really part of that thread.]

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Rob,
No.  I use AlibreCAD and the now old and discontinued AlibreCAM which is the 
integrated Mecsoft VisualCAM.

As for I/O I think you might be missing the point.  I've certainly had enough 
people stress to me the ease of setting up their Centroid system.  They are 
happy with 3 axis and possibly 4.  

The almost vitriol resistance to LinuxCNC is really quite amazing considering 
how powerful it is.  But it's not easy to set up.  As the tutorial on Tormach's 
install shows, get the wrong MESA version and it resets and updates and you 
lose everything.  Handy if you have a Tormach and don't want to think about the 
underlying OS.  Difficult when you get into asking users to start editing files 
on non-Tormach machines.

So here's a suggestion since you were originally asking about Tormach.  Why not 
create a tutorial with diagrams for a simple 4 axis system using the Raspberry 
Pi4,  7i92 from MESA (7 in stock today) and two of the Chinese BoBs.  (I 
reverse engineered them so I have the schematic). 

Of course this should also specify exactly how to set up one of the common 
smaller mills.   Maybe something like this:
https://www.busybeetools.com/products/milling-machine-with-digital-readout-cx601.html
Drawings for the brackets.  Motor selection.  Power supply.  The works.

Or even just AXIS instead of Tormach.

The point is I've had absolutely no luck in convincing anyone to move from 
MACH3 or any other CNC 'package' to LinuxCNC.  Why?  That's the question we 
need to answer.

John




> -Original Message-
> From: Rob C [mailto:rclandro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-24-23 11:04 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
> 
> have you tried nativecam?
> 
> easy to add to axis (when you've done it before).
> 
> centroid acorn is nice, but very expensive and has very few iOS (compared
> to Mesa hardware and linuxcnc) and only 4x step and direction ports..
> your choice.
> 
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:42 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
> 
> > > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> > > >
> > > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale
> > adoption of
> > > > LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> > >
> > > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are _all_
> > terrible?
> > >
> >
> > I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_
> > terrible.
> >
> > Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out the
> > door and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he
> > just bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.
> >
> > At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free Fusion
> > 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.
> >
> > OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.
> >
> > So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available including
> > even AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.
> >
> > Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube videos
> > become his other source of information and education.  The most interesting
> > ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of subscribers that in fact
> > are really long mostly to have multiple advertisers.  But at the time he's
> > not aware that the videos are short on information, long on con for
> > supporting lots of advertising.
> >
> > IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the
> > poster is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How
> > interesting to watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth
> > making chips.  Oh, and now another advertisement.
> >
> > So someone on a forum recommends MESA.
> >
> > http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=215
> > Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no diagram like the
> > ACORN one.  So no idea where to start...
> >
> > Oh but then someone suggests
> >
> > http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=381&search=7i92
> >
> > Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and
> > cheap too.
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015669728.html
> >
> > Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these new
> > step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct coupled or
> > with belts and pulleys?
> >
> > So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.
> > He used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per
> > the youtube video.  Making chips.
> >
> > And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so LCNC
> > user interfaces to use.
> >
> > The above is I think the typical thought processes.
> >
> > I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to
> > figure out whether I should spend $400 for a t

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Andy Pugh]

> On 24 Jan 2023, at 18:03, Eric Keller  wrote:
> 
> Doesn't Pathpilot have better motion planning for more than 3 axes?

Yes, it has full 9-axis blending. 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

No, I haven't tried nativecam. What does it give me that I don't have as
part of Pathpilot? Prettier UI? Cheaper than free? Trochoidal milling of
simple shapes? CAM directly  from STEP files? Better online tutorials? Do I
get what I already have including: zero effort installation (part of the
base install), documentation, thread milling, DXF import, speed/feed
suggestions, etc, etc?.

-Original Message-
From: Rob C  
Sent: January 24, 2023 2:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

have you tried nativecam?

easy to add to axis (when you've done it before).

centroid acorn is nice, but very expensive and has very few iOS (compared to
Mesa hardware and linuxcnc) and only 4x step and direction ports..
your choice.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:42 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> > >
> > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale
> adoption of
> > > LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> >
> > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are 
> > _all_
> terrible?
> >
>
> I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_
> terrible.
>
> Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out 
> the door and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a 
> DRO and he just bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.
>
> At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free 
> Fusion
> 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.
>
> OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.
>
> So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available 
> including even AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.
>
> Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube 
> videos become his other source of information and education.  The most 
> interesting ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of 
> subscribers that in fact are really long mostly to have multiple 
> advertisers.  But at the time he's not aware that the videos are short 
> on information, long on con for supporting lots of advertising.
>
> IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the
> poster is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How
> interesting to watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth 
> making chips.  Oh, and now another advertisement.
>
> So someone on a forum recommends MESA.
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&pr
> oduct_id=215 Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no 
> diagram like the ACORN one.  So no idea where to start...
>
> Oh but then someone suggests
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=38
> 1&search=7i92
>
> Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and 
> cheap too.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015669728.html
>
> Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these 
> new step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct 
> coupled or with belts and pulleys?
>
> So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.
> He used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per
> the youtube video.  Making chips.
>
> And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so 
> LCNC user interfaces to use.
>
> The above is I think the typical thought processes.
>
> I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to 
> figure out whether I should spend $400 for a touch screen HDMI 21" 
> screen or some other user interface.  Really miss the MACROs from 
> MACH3 though.  I think that's what's called the conversational interface
on Tormach?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Rob C]

have you tried nativecam?

easy to add to axis (when you've done it before).

centroid acorn is nice, but very expensive and has very few iOS (compared
to Mesa hardware and linuxcnc) and only 4x step and direction ports..
your choice.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:42 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> > >
> > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale
> adoption of
> > > LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> >
> > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are _all_
> terrible?
> >
>
> I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_
> terrible.
>
> Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out the
> door and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he
> just bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.
>
> At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free Fusion
> 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.
>
> OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.
>
> So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available including
> even AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.
>
> Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube videos
> become his other source of information and education.  The most interesting
> ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of subscribers that in fact
> are really long mostly to have multiple advertisers.  But at the time he's
> not aware that the videos are short on information, long on con for
> supporting lots of advertising.
>
> IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the
> poster is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How
> interesting to watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth
> making chips.  Oh, and now another advertisement.
>
> So someone on a forum recommends MESA.
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=215
> Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no diagram like the
> ACORN one.  So no idea where to start...
>
> Oh but then someone suggests
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=381&search=7i92
>
> Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and
> cheap too.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015669728.html
>
> Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these new
> step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct coupled or
> with belts and pulleys?
>
> So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.
> He used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per
> the youtube video.  Making chips.
>
> And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so LCNC
> user interfaces to use.
>
> The above is I think the typical thought processes.
>
> I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to
> figure out whether I should spend $400 for a touch screen HDMI 21" screen
> or some other user interface.  Really miss the MACROs from MACH3 though.  I
> think that's what's called the conversational interface on Tormach?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
> > LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> 
> There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are _all_ 
> terrible?
> 

I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_ terrible.

Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out the door 
and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he just 
bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.  

At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free Fusion 360 
con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.  

OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.

So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available including even 
AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.

Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube videos 
become his other source of information and education.  The most interesting 
ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of subscribers that in fact are 
really long mostly to have multiple advertisers.  But at the time he's not 
aware that the videos are short on information, long on con for supporting lots 
of advertising.

IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the poster 
is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How interesting to 
watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth making chips.  Oh, and 
now another advertisement.

So someone on a forum recommends MESA.  
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=215
Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no diagram like the ACORN 
one.  So no idea where to start...

Oh but then someone suggests
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=381&search=7i92

Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and cheap too.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015669728.html

Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these new 
step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct coupled or with 
belts and pulleys?

So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.  He 
used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per the 
youtube video.  Making chips.

And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so LCNC user 
interfaces to use.

The above is I think the typical thought processes.

I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to figure out 
whether I should spend $400 for a touch screen HDMI 21" screen or some other 
user interface.  Really miss the MACROs from MACH3 though.  I think that's 
what's called the conversational interface on Tormach?

John




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Andy Pugh]

> On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> 
> But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
> LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.

There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are _all_ 
terrible?



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I ran into a similar problem with my Bergerda drive the first time I used it on 
the X axis.  The servos must be configured in velocity mode (Hiwin Control 2).  
Not position mode (Hiwin Control 1). (Page 16 of the Hiwin D2 manual).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx-kAqdwceU

Here's it working properly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43liAVILgHY

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Leonardo Marsaglia [mailto:ldmarsag...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-24-23 7:40 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC
> 
> Hi guys, hope you are all doing well.
> 
> My brother is changing some stepper motors to servos from a machine with
> LCNC 2.4.3 and a mesa 5i20. The servos are D2 model from Hiwin.
> 
> The problem he's having is that, in rapid movements, after LCNC completes
> its motion the servo motor keeps running until it reaches the desired
> position. Apparently scale is ok and position is reached ok too, but only
> works well in coordinate motion (G01) between two axes.
> 
> Could it be that the stepgen timing is too fast for what the servo is
> waiting for? And because of that it buffers all the pulses and executes the
> motion anyway? The manual says max frequency in LOW FREQ input is about 500
> khz so this shouldn't be a problem but maybe the timing is not quite right
> for what the servo expects.
> 
> By the way, I can't find any info in the manuals about the timing of the
> step signal other than the max frequency and wiring diagrams for the
> different setups.
> 
> I don't have direct access to this machine so there's not much that I can
> do right now but it might be a simple problem so I had to ask.
> 
> Thanks as always for your help!
> 
> Leonardo
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[John Dammeyer]

> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> 
> Several have opined that Pathpilot is just a pretty face and that is largely
> correct. It does provide some nice features -- conversational machining
> including drilling, thread milling, facing; probing; import of .DXF, editing
> of Gcode, interface to DropBox, etc. I realize that most if not all are
> available in other implementations.
> 
> But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
> LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> 
> From: Rob C 
> 
> am I missing something, this is all documented on the forum, with a number
> of users using tormach with non tormach machines.
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
> 
> Mesa 7i92 will work just fine (I have had it running before)
> 
> now I have seen the light, and just run linuxcnc with axis for mill, router
> and lathe, and qtplasmac for plasma.  it just works.  no it's not eye candy
> but life is about the taste of the coffee and not the shape or look of the
> mug / cup.
> 

Hi Ken,
One metal group I belong to, with over 1000 members, those who use CNC are 
mostly using dedicated CNC boxes or MACH.  A very small percentage are using 
LCNC.

The supporters of the ACORN system are big on ease of use and not having to 
learn Linux.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acornsix_cnc_controller.html

The supporters of MACH are big on not having to learn Linux.

As for the Tormach, here's what was said by one Tormach user who bought his 
used for his home shop.  At work he uses HAAS.

"-Pathpilot is a pretty user friendly control with some great options that I 
actually like better than Haas. It has some parts I don't like thoughThe 
conversational is something I've really come to love. Our Haas' at work don't 
have quick code, and I really wish they did after running mine."

The tutorial pages on the link provided by Rob C. are good but still require 
that large amount of Linux and LCNC knowledge.  Most people just don't want to 
go there.

If we wanted more people using LCNC (even if just with the Tormach install) 
then pages like the ACORN are mandatory.  Ie. you buy this, this and that.  You 
install and wire up this, this and that like this.  

For example Peter Homann in Australia, who used to manufacture a lot of add on 
boards for MACH switched to LCNC.
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/429214-pathpilot-mesa-7i92h-geckodrive-g540.html

But as always, the LCNC or Tormach conversion information is all over the place 
and a newbie has no idea which web thread refers to what is up to date etc.  So 
they go with systems like the ACORN.
Even if this simple version looks like it's running a BeagleBone and therefore 
probably LCNC
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html

John




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[Eric Keller]

Doesn't Pathpilot have better motion planning for more than 3 axes?
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylania

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:38 AM  wrote:
>
> Several have opined that Pathpilot is just a pretty face and that is largely
> correct. It does provide some nice features -- conversational machining
> including drilling, thread milling, facing; probing; import of .DXF, editing
> of Gcode, interface to DropBox, etc. I realize that most if not all are
> available in other implementations.
>
> But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
> LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob C 
> Sent: January 24, 2023 1:55 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
>
> am I missing something, this is all documented on the forum, with a number
> of users using tormach with non tormach machines.
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
>
> Mesa 7i92 will work just fine (I have had it running before)
>
> now I have seen the light, and just run linuxcnc with axis for mill, router
> and lathe, and qtplasmac for plasma.  it just works.  no it's not eye candy
> but life is about the taste of the coffee and not the shape or look of the
> mug / cup.
>
> I do use nativecam and also ngcgui again they just work.
>
> what benefit are you after using path pilot other than the gui appearance?
>
> a similar appearance can be done with using qtpyvcp and probe basic
>
> https://www.qtpyvcp.com/showcase/mill_vcps.html
>
> what do you think tormach is going to do better than linuxcnc? . other
> than the display interface?  (I am genuinely curious what the benefit is)
>
> rob
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 06:04 andrew beck,  wrote:
>
> > Just a quick note.
> >
> > I think they run a standard mesa card.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:22 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Ron Ginger [mailto:rongin...@roadrunner.com]
> > > >
> > > > I would like to try to run PathPilot on my own mill. I now run
> > > > Mach4, but I would like to see how well PathPilot works.
> > > >
> > > > I see I can simply download a copy from the Tormach site.  what
> > > > interface board do I need?
> > > >
> > > > What is Tormachs position on this? I know they have to release the
> > > > code because it is based on open source, but do they oppose its use?
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > >
> > > > ron ginger
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ron,
> > > Long time.
> > > Have you asked Tormach what kind of interface board they use?  I
> > > doubt it's a parallel port.
> > >
> > > My guess is if you use open source LCNC for your system.  Spend the
> > > time/money to create a custom user interface for it but don't want
> > everyone
> > > using it you'd likely use a customized piece of hardware as the
> > > break out board.
> > >
> > > However, unlike MACH, the two important files in LCNC are the .INI
> > > and .HAL files.  In the Tormach image those two will describe how
> > > they talk
> > to
> > > the machine hardware.
> > >
> > > For example I use a MESA 7i92H and for a while had dual boot for
> > > WIN-XP and LCNC to a PMDX-126 break out board.  It's Ethernet to the
> > > MESA which emulates two parallel ports onto the PMDX.
> > >
> > > Here's how I documented (for my own needs) the first parallel port
> > > with the DB-25 pins cross referenced to the MESA pins.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to what you find out.
> > > John Dammeyer
> > >
> > > # external I/O signals
> > > # IO Connections for P2 MESA 7i92_PMDX126Ax2D.pin  (modified from
> > > pin
> > file)
> > > # DBn.m_PMDX_Jn.m  I/O   Pri.func  Sec. func   Chan  Pin func
> > >   Pin DirSystem usage
> > >
> > > # P1.1_J6.2 0   IOPort None
> > >   (Out)  machine-is-enabled (output)
> > > # P1.14_J6.31   IOPort PWM  0PWM
> > >(Out)  spindle-vel-cmd-rps PWM (output)
> > > # P1.2_J4.2 2   IOPort StepGen  0Step/Table1
> > >(Out)  x axis step pulse (output)
> > > # P1.15_J12.9   3   IOPort None
> > >   (In)   max-x-y-min-z (input)
> > > # P1.3_J4.3 4   IOPort StepGen  0Dir/Table2
> > >   (Out)  x axis dir signal (output)
> > > # P1.16_J6.45   IOPort None
> > >   (Out)  spindle-ccw output (output)
> > > # P1.4_J3.2 6   IOPort StepGen  1Step/Table1
> > >(Out)  y axis step pulse (output)
> > > # P1.17_J6.57   IOPort StepGen  4Step/Table1
> > >(Out)  Charge Pump frequency (output)
> > > # P1.5_J3.3 8   IOPort StepGen  1Dir/Table2
> > >   (Out)  y axis dir signal (output)
> > > # P1.6_J2.2 9   IOPort StepGen  2Step/Table1
> > >(Out)  z axis step pulse (output)
> > > # P1.7_J2.3 10  IOPort StepGen  2Dir/Table2
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Todd Zuercher]

Your problem sounds almost certainly like the maximum velocity and or 
acceleration is set to something less than the maximum settings you have in 
Linuxcnc.  In setups like this where you have multiple control loops nested 
within each other, the capability limits of each must be completely contained 
within the limits of the outer loop(s).  So in your case your outer loop is the 
servo motor/drive control.  So all of the limits of Linuxcnc must fall within 
those set in the drive.  That would be max acceleration, max velocity, and max 
and min position or travel.  If the limits of Linuxcnc fall outside any of 
those settings in the drive, weird things like you describe can happen.  And 
the limitations of the drive could be explicit settings in the drive, or 
physical limitations, such as it simply can't go fast enough because of 
insufficient power or inadequate tuning.   So your solution is to either 
increase the limit in the drive to be equal to (or better yet slightly more 
than) the max settings in Linuxcnc, or reduce the max settings in Linuxcnc to 
be slightly less than the capabilities set by the drive.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Leonardo Marsaglia  
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 10:40 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Hi guys, hope you are all doing well.

My brother is changing some stepper motors to servos from a machine with LCNC 
2.4.3 and a mesa 5i20. The servos are D2 model from Hiwin.

The problem he's having is that, in rapid movements, after LCNC completes its 
motion the servo motor keeps running until it reaches the desired position. 
Apparently scale is ok and position is reached ok too, but only works well in 
coordinate motion (G01) between two axes.

Could it be that the stepgen timing is too fast for what the servo is waiting 
for? And because of that it buffers all the pulses and executes the motion 
anyway? The manual says max frequency in LOW FREQ input is about 500 khz so 
this shouldn't be a problem but maybe the timing is not quite right for what 
the servo expects.

By the way, I can't find any info in the manuals about the timing of the step 
signal other than the max frequency and wiring diagrams for the different 
setups.

I don't have direct access to this machine so there's not much that I can do 
right now but it might be a simple problem so I had to ask.

Thanks as always for your help!

Leonardo

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ccdb546a90acd4703a76708dafe216447%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101716630663370%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fnv01dp7r1zrCd48ecABZyIW7T%2BqS%2BycJ3MpTLRnsgk%3D&reserved=0


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hi Sam,

Yeap, seems like the servo motor limits its acceleration within itself. The
problem is the manual doesn't help and the only thing I could find is a
smooth factor so I'll tell him to play with that value and see what
happens. It seems the drive has more settings available when you tune it
via the PC software. That really sucks.

The people that own the machine purchased the drive without even consulting
the manual before. Big mistake I believe.




El mar, 24 ene 2023 a las 13:08, Sam Sokolik ()
escribió:

> This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
> well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..
>
> With steppers - at least they stall..  The fact that the servo drive isn't
> tripping a following error makes me think they are not setup correctly.
> It should notice the difference between the step train and the actual
> position of the servo and know that it isn't keeping up.
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:43 AM Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi guys, hope you are all doing well.
> >
> > My brother is changing some stepper motors to servos from a machine with
> > LCNC 2.4.3 and a mesa 5i20. The servos are D2 model from Hiwin.
> >
> > The problem he's having is that, in rapid movements, after LCNC completes
> > its motion the servo motor keeps running until it reaches the desired
> > position. Apparently scale is ok and position is reached ok too, but only
> > works well in coordinate motion (G01) between two axes.
> >
> > Could it be that the stepgen timing is too fast for what the servo is
> > waiting for? And because of that it buffers all the pulses and executes
> the
> > motion anyway? The manual says max frequency in LOW FREQ input is about
> 500
> > khz so this shouldn't be a problem but maybe the timing is not quite
> right
> > for what the servo expects.
> >
> > By the way, I can't find any info in the manuals about the timing of the
> > step signal other than the max frequency and wiring diagrams for the
> > different setups.
> >
> > I don't have direct access to this machine so there's not much that I can
> > do right now but it might be a simple problem so I had to ask.
> >
> > Thanks as always for your help!
> >
> > Leonardo
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Sam Sokolik]

This is why I don't like smart servo drives..   lol..  You don't know how
well the drive is following the path linuxcnc is commanding..

With steppers - at least they stall..  The fact that the servo drive isn't
tripping a following error makes me think they are not setup correctly.
It should notice the difference between the step train and the actual
position of the servo and know that it isn't keeping up.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:43 AM Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> Hi guys, hope you are all doing well.
>
> My brother is changing some stepper motors to servos from a machine with
> LCNC 2.4.3 and a mesa 5i20. The servos are D2 model from Hiwin.
>
> The problem he's having is that, in rapid movements, after LCNC completes
> its motion the servo motor keeps running until it reaches the desired
> position. Apparently scale is ok and position is reached ok too, but only
> works well in coordinate motion (G01) between two axes.
>
> Could it be that the stepgen timing is too fast for what the servo is
> waiting for? And because of that it buffers all the pulses and executes the
> motion anyway? The manual says max frequency in LOW FREQ input is about 500
> khz so this shouldn't be a problem but maybe the timing is not quite right
> for what the servo expects.
>
> By the way, I can't find any info in the manuals about the timing of the
> step signal other than the max frequency and wiring diagrams for the
> different setups.
>
> I don't have direct access to this machine so there's not much that I can
> do right now but it might be a simple problem so I had to ask.
>
> Thanks as always for your help!
>
> Leonardo
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Servo motor in step mode reaches position after LCNC

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hi guys, hope you are all doing well.

My brother is changing some stepper motors to servos from a machine with
LCNC 2.4.3 and a mesa 5i20. The servos are D2 model from Hiwin.

The problem he's having is that, in rapid movements, after LCNC completes
its motion the servo motor keeps running until it reaches the desired
position. Apparently scale is ok and position is reached ok too, but only
works well in coordinate motion (G01) between two axes.

Could it be that the stepgen timing is too fast for what the servo is
waiting for? And because of that it buffers all the pulses and executes the
motion anyway? The manual says max frequency in LOW FREQ input is about 500
khz so this shouldn't be a problem but maybe the timing is not quite right
for what the servo expects.

By the way, I can't find any info in the manuals about the timing of the
step signal other than the max frequency and wiring diagrams for the
different setups.

I don't have direct access to this machine so there's not much that I can
do right now but it might be a simple problem so I had to ask.

Thanks as always for your help!

Leonardo

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

Several have opined that Pathpilot is just a pretty face and that is largely
correct. It does provide some nice features -- conversational machining
including drilling, thread milling, facing; probing; import of .DXF, editing
of Gcode, interface to DropBox, etc. I realize that most if not all are
available in other implementations. 

But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI. 

-Original Message-
From: Rob C  
Sent: January 24, 2023 1:55 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

am I missing something, this is all documented on the forum, with a number
of users using tormach with non tormach machines.

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot

Mesa 7i92 will work just fine (I have had it running before)

now I have seen the light, and just run linuxcnc with axis for mill, router
and lathe, and qtplasmac for plasma.  it just works.  no it's not eye candy
but life is about the taste of the coffee and not the shape or look of the
mug / cup.

I do use nativecam and also ngcgui again they just work.

what benefit are you after using path pilot other than the gui appearance?

a similar appearance can be done with using qtpyvcp and probe basic

https://www.qtpyvcp.com/showcase/mill_vcps.html

what do you think tormach is going to do better than linuxcnc? . other
than the display interface?  (I am genuinely curious what the benefit is)

rob


On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 06:04 andrew beck,  wrote:

> Just a quick note.
>
> I think they run a standard mesa card.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:22 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ron Ginger [mailto:rongin...@roadrunner.com]
> > >
> > > I would like to try to run PathPilot on my own mill. I now run 
> > > Mach4, but I would like to see how well PathPilot works.
> > >
> > > I see I can simply download a copy from the Tormach site.  what 
> > > interface board do I need?
> > >
> > > What is Tormachs position on this? I know they have to release the 
> > > code because it is based on open source, but do they oppose its use?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > ron ginger
> > >
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> > Long time.
> > Have you asked Tormach what kind of interface board they use?  I 
> > doubt it's a parallel port.
> >
> > My guess is if you use open source LCNC for your system.  Spend the 
> > time/money to create a custom user interface for it but don't want
> everyone
> > using it you'd likely use a customized piece of hardware as the 
> > break out board.
> >
> > However, unlike MACH, the two important files in LCNC are the .INI 
> > and .HAL files.  In the Tormach image those two will describe how 
> > they talk
> to
> > the machine hardware.
> >
> > For example I use a MESA 7i92H and for a while had dual boot for 
> > WIN-XP and LCNC to a PMDX-126 break out board.  It's Ethernet to the 
> > MESA which emulates two parallel ports onto the PMDX.
> >
> > Here's how I documented (for my own needs) the first parallel port 
> > with the DB-25 pins cross referenced to the MESA pins.
> >
> > Looking forward to what you find out.
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> > # external I/O signals
> > # IO Connections for P2 MESA 7i92_PMDX126Ax2D.pin  (modified from 
> > pin
> file)
> > # DBn.m_PMDX_Jn.m  I/O   Pri.func  Sec. func   Chan  Pin func
> >   Pin DirSystem usage
> >
> > # P1.1_J6.2 0   IOPort None
> >   (Out)  machine-is-enabled (output)
> > # P1.14_J6.31   IOPort PWM  0PWM
> >(Out)  spindle-vel-cmd-rps PWM (output)
> > # P1.2_J4.2 2   IOPort StepGen  0Step/Table1
> >(Out)  x axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.15_J12.9   3   IOPort None
> >   (In)   max-x-y-min-z (input)
> > # P1.3_J4.3 4   IOPort StepGen  0Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  x axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.16_J6.45   IOPort None
> >   (Out)  spindle-ccw output (output)
> > # P1.4_J3.2 6   IOPort StepGen  1Step/Table1
> >(Out)  y axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.17_J6.57   IOPort StepGen  4Step/Table1
> >(Out)  Charge Pump frequency (output)
> > # P1.5_J3.3 8   IOPort StepGen  1Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  y axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.6_J2.2 9   IOPort StepGen  2Step/Table1
> >(Out)  z axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.7_J2.3 10  IOPort StepGen  2Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  z axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.8_J1.2 11  IOPort StepGen  3Step/Table1
> >(Out)  a axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.9_J1.2 12  IOPort StepGen  3Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  a axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.10_J13.4   13  IOPort None
> >   (In)   estop-external-in (

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

I have a Tormach and have been running Pathpilot for years. It "talks" to
several Mesa cards -- 7i92, 5i25 and 7i25(?). If no supported interface card
is found it stops with an error message. 

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: January 23, 2023 11:10 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:23 PM Ron Ginger  wrote:

>
> I see I can simply download a copy from the Tormach site.  what 
> interface board do I need?
>

I doubt Pathpilot talks directly to any interface board.  It is a user
interface and likely generates g-code.

Why not try it and tell us what happens?

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users