Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine
Hi Steve,
I think this rotary table was designed to be an A axis for a good sized
mill.
Thanks for the tips on the Monarch machines. I'll take a look.
I was looking around the web and I didn't realize that some rotary table
manufacturers make 2 axis rotary tables. Those can't be cheap.
Dave
On 5/5/2011 5:18 PM, Steve Van Der Loo wrote:
> Hi Dave:
>
> If you can find a 5 axis machine on the cheap that is great. Usually
> cheap is worn out or/and old technology and 5 axis machines are
> relatively new. 5 axis profiling machines have been around for quite a
> while but I don't think they can move all the way around a part, which
> I think is what you are looking for. I haven't scoured the used
> machine tool market and I believe that a tilting head is not common
> relative to a rotary stacked on a trunnion table. I suspect that your
> machine could be home grown. Am I to believe that your rotary table is
> for the "A" axis? The Monarch Cortland 45/75/150 A series of machines
> might be a good candidate for you. A standard machine has about 24"
> from table to spindle nose.The quill housing is mounted to a slide
> that is their W axis. That surface is ground and parallel to the Z
> axis so you could mount a low profile rotating table there ("B" axis)
> and put the quill housing on the rotating portion of the table. When
> the table rotates then so does your quill. It sounds simple but it
> will take a lot of effort to make it work well especially if you still
> want the tool changer to function. The capacity of these machines is
> 3000 lbs or more. Some of them came with pallet changers which could
> be handy if your wanted to be able to do regular 3 axis work and not
> lose the "A" axis rotator set up.
>
> These machines may have draw backs depending on the type of work you
> need done. They have an odd ball 45 taper tool holder that uses 3
> balls or claws to hold them in the spindle. Most spindles are 3500 rpm
> with a 5300 rpm option. The quill is limited to 9" of travel. The W
> axis is not suitable for continuous motion; it locks in 1" increments.
>However it could be made variable with a feed back system. They have
> complicated pneumatic systems. Most of it would be obsoleted when
> going to EMC2. They are 70's and 80's machines which are probably in
> need of repair. However they are more repairable than most as many
> slideway components can be removed.
>
> You really need to figure out what your space requirements are starting
> with your maximum part size working outwards to determine the total
> axis travel needed. As you have already realized 5 axis machines are
> bigger for a given part volume than standard 3 axis machines. You may
> need a 30x50" travel machine to completely get around a 12" part.
>
> I am sure there are other machines that can do the job. But in any
> event it is going to use a lot of money and/or time to get it to go; 5
> axis is expensive.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 14:38:28 -0400
>> From: Dave
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine
>> advice.
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Message-ID:<4dc2eea4.50...@dc9.tzo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis
>> conversion??
>>
>> I just bought a large rotary table with an integral servo drive and
>> motor. It has a 12" diameter slotted face plate and must weigh at
>> least 6-800 lbs.
>>
>> I'm looking for suggestions on what VMC might be big enough to handle a
>> sizeable rotary axis like this and also
>> be adaptable to a tilting type head?
>>
>> Basically I am trying to figure out how to put together a substantial 5
>> axis mill on the cheap.
>>
>> I've been working with a company that makes and purchases a lot of parts
>> made on 5 axis mills and the flexibility of a 5 axis setup is impressive.
>>
>> Or am I on the wrong track.Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with
>> dead controls and convert it?
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> --
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> __
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine advice.
This one weighs considerably more. I can pickup 250 lbs, but I had a hard time sliding this one once I got it in my pickup truck bed. We used an engine hoist to load it as there was no way that two of us could lift it.It is programmable and has some type of air lock device in it also along with the servo motor. It is an SMW table and it has an 18" diameter, 1" thick faceplate bolted onto the roughly 12" t-slot face. The additional tooling obviously adds some weight to the table also. The control manual is dated 1990 so it is from about that time period. I first saw it about 5 years ago and it was for sale then and at that time it was being stored. The plant guy said they used it for one job a long time ago and that was about it. Dave On 5/5/2011 2:52 PM, Igor Chudov wrote: > My 12 inches CNC rotary table weighs closer to 250 lbs. > > http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/24-Troyke-Rotary-Table-U12PNC/ > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Dave wrote: > > >> In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis >> conversion?? >> >> I just bought a large rotary table with an integral servo drive and >> motor. It has a 12" diameter slotted face plate and must weigh at >> least 6-800 lbs. >> >> I'm looking for suggestions on what VMC might be big enough to handle a >> sizeable rotary axis like this and also >> be adaptable to a tilting type head? >> >> Basically I am trying to figure out how to put together a substantial 5 >> axis mill on the cheap. >> >> I've been working with a company that makes and purchases a lot of parts >> made on 5 axis mills and the flexibility of a 5 axis setup is impressive. >> >> Or am I on the wrong track.Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with >> dead controls and convert it? >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Dave >> >> On 5/3/2011 6:16 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: >> >>> As I hand code and can therefore control direction the rotaries move I >>> >> can >> >>> cut against the play/backlash inherent in the cheap rotaries I use, often >>> >> the >> >>> B axis will be locked though for greater rigidity. >>> Im mostly cutting light weight brass blanks though. >>> >>> A reason I hand code is I cannot afford CAM software to do the type of >>> work I do. >>> here the benefits of Ocode subroutines come into their own. >>> >>> So for a helical Im using XZ for the cut Y to cut deeper A for the >>> helix rotation along >>> the blank and B to set angle to get the cutter in line with the groove. >>> >>> so the gcode has a number of constants to set before use eg >>> #=160 >>> #=[.100] (cut depth adjust as needed) >>> #=.25 >>> #=81 >>> >>> then after some preamble and calculations of settings for a particular >>> >> gear eg >> >>> #=[[sin[90-#]]*#] >>> >>> then the subroutine >>> O100 sub (subroutine to cut N teeth) >>>#=0 >>>O101 while [# lt #3] >>> G1 f4 X0 Y#2 (move to cut start) >>> G91 (set relative) >>> >>> G1 F4 x[0-#4] a[0-#5] z#6 >>>(M30) (stop to test if tool hits rotary table) >>> >>> G0 y[0-#2] >>> G1 F50 x[#4] a#5 z[0-#6] (actual cut) >>> ( G91 )(set relative) >>> G0 A#1 (rotate blank) >>> G90 (set incremental) >>> #=[#+1] >>>O101 endwhile >>> O100 endsub >>> >>> then the lines >>>(B can be locked after this next line) >>> G1 f60 b[0-#] (set helix 90 deg to cutter rotation) >>> O100 call [#] [0-#] [#] >>> [0-#] [#] >>> [0-[#]] >>> >>> I leave commented lines in >>> 1) to uncomment to stop the code at certain points while setting up and >>> 2) to remember what I did >>> I also use sensible names for the variables I hope. >>> >>> The touch off to get the cutter on the centreline in my case is a pain. >>> >>> >>> Dave Caroline >>> >>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Steve wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dave: So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting >> plane, >> locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? Steve Van Der Loo Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 From: Dave Caroline For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have been cutting gears for clocks on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it happens to suit the work I do. Dave Caroline >> -- >> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list >>
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine
Hi Dave:
If you can find a 5 axis machine on the cheap that is great. Usually
cheap is worn out or/and old technology and 5 axis machines are
relatively new. 5 axis profiling machines have been around for quite a
while but I don't think they can move all the way around a part, which
I think is what you are looking for. I haven't scoured the used
machine tool market and I believe that a tilting head is not common
relative to a rotary stacked on a trunnion table. I suspect that your
machine could be home grown. Am I to believe that your rotary table is
for the "A" axis? The Monarch Cortland 45/75/150 A series of machines
might be a good candidate for you. A standard machine has about 24"
from table to spindle nose.The quill housing is mounted to a slide
that is their W axis. That surface is ground and parallel to the Z
axis so you could mount a low profile rotating table there ("B" axis)
and put the quill housing on the rotating portion of the table. When
the table rotates then so does your quill. It sounds simple but it
will take a lot of effort to make it work well especially if you still
want the tool changer to function. The capacity of these machines is
3000 lbs or more. Some of them came with pallet changers which could
be handy if your wanted to be able to do regular 3 axis work and not
lose the "A" axis rotator set up.
These machines may have draw backs depending on the type of work you
need done. They have an odd ball 45 taper tool holder that uses 3
balls or claws to hold them in the spindle. Most spindles are 3500 rpm
with a 5300 rpm option. The quill is limited to 9" of travel. The W
axis is not suitable for continuous motion; it locks in 1" increments.
However it could be made variable with a feed back system. They have
complicated pneumatic systems. Most of it would be obsoleted when
going to EMC2. They are 70's and 80's machines which are probably in
need of repair. However they are more repairable than most as many
slideway components can be removed.
You really need to figure out what your space requirements are starting
with your maximum part size working outwards to determine the total
axis travel needed. As you have already realized 5 axis machines are
bigger for a given part volume than standard 3 axis machines. You may
need a 30x50" travel machine to completely get around a 12" part.
I am sure there are other machines that can do the job. But in any
event it is going to use a lot of money and/or time to get it to go; 5
axis is expensive.
Steve
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 14:38:28 -0400
> From: Dave
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine
> advice.
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID: <4dc2eea4.50...@dc9.tzo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis
> conversion??
>
> I just bought a large rotary table with an integral servo drive and
> motor. It has a 12" diameter slotted face plate and must weigh at
> least 6-800 lbs.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on what VMC might be big enough to handle a
> sizeable rotary axis like this and also
> be adaptable to a tilting type head?
>
> Basically I am trying to figure out how to put together a substantial 5
> axis mill on the cheap.
>
> I've been working with a company that makes and purchases a lot of parts
> made on 5 axis mills and the flexibility of a 5 axis setup is impressive.
>
> Or am I on the wrong track.Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with
> dead controls and convert it?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Dave
--
WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine advice.
My 12 inches CNC rotary table weighs closer to 250 lbs. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/24-Troyke-Rotary-Table-U12PNC/ On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Dave wrote: > In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis > conversion?? > > I just bought a large rotary table with an integral servo drive and > motor. It has a 12" diameter slotted face plate and must weigh at > least 6-800 lbs. > > I'm looking for suggestions on what VMC might be big enough to handle a > sizeable rotary axis like this and also > be adaptable to a tilting type head? > > Basically I am trying to figure out how to put together a substantial 5 > axis mill on the cheap. > > I've been working with a company that makes and purchases a lot of parts > made on 5 axis mills and the flexibility of a 5 axis setup is impressive. > > Or am I on the wrong track.Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with > dead controls and convert it? > > Any suggestions? > > Dave > > On 5/3/2011 6:16 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: > > As I hand code and can therefore control direction the rotaries move I > can > > cut against the play/backlash inherent in the cheap rotaries I use, often > the > > B axis will be locked though for greater rigidity. > > Im mostly cutting light weight brass blanks though. > > > > A reason I hand code is I cannot afford CAM software to do the type of > > work I do. > > here the benefits of Ocode subroutines come into their own. > > > > So for a helical Im using XZ for the cut Y to cut deeper A for the > > helix rotation along > > the blank and B to set angle to get the cutter in line with the groove. > > > > so the gcode has a number of constants to set before use eg > > #=160 > > #=[.100] (cut depth adjust as needed) > > #=.25 > > #=81 > > > > then after some preamble and calculations of settings for a particular > gear eg > > > > #=[[sin[90-#]]*#] > > > > then the subroutine > > O100 sub (subroutine to cut N teeth) > > #=0 > > O101 while [# lt #3] > >G1 f4 X0 Y#2 (move to cut start) > >G91 (set relative) > > > >G1 F4 x[0-#4] a[0-#5] z#6 > > (M30) (stop to test if tool hits rotary table) > > > >G0 y[0-#2] > >G1 F50 x[#4] a#5 z[0-#6] (actual cut) > > ( G91 )(set relative) > >G0 A#1 (rotate blank) > >G90 (set incremental) > >#=[#+1] > > O101 endwhile > > O100 endsub > > > > then the lines > > (B can be locked after this next line) > > G1 f60 b[0-#] (set helix 90 deg to cutter rotation) > > O100 call [#] [0-#] [#] > > [0-#] [#] > > [0-[#]] > > > > I leave commented lines in > > 1) to uncomment to stop the code at certain points while setting up and > > 2) to remember what I did > > I also use sensible names for the variables I hope. > > > > The touch off to get the cutter on the centreline in my case is a pain. > > > > > > Dave Caroline > > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Steve wrote: > > > >> Hi Dave: > >> > >> So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you > >> rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting > plane, > >> locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? > >> > >> Steve Van Der Loo > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 > >> From: Dave Caroline > >> > >> For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have > >> been cutting gears for clocks > >> on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it > >> happens to suit the work I do. > >> > >> Dave Caroline > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > >> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > >> management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > >> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > >> ___ > >> Emc-users mailing list > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >> > >> > > > -- > > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine advice.
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Dave wrote: > In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis > conversion?? > snip > > Or am I on the wrong track. Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with > dead controls and convert it? > > Any suggestions? > > Dave Seems to me that getting the hardware right is always the hard part, so better let someone else do it. But finding a dead 5 axis machine that isn't worn out is going to be a trick. I can't imagine very many machines that would easily take an 800 pound rotary table other than, say, a giant gantry mill. Eric -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - 5 axis machine advice.
In the same vain... what type of mill would make a good 5 axis conversion?? I just bought a large rotary table with an integral servo drive and motor. It has a 12" diameter slotted face plate and must weigh at least 6-800 lbs. I'm looking for suggestions on what VMC might be big enough to handle a sizeable rotary axis like this and also be adaptable to a tilting type head? Basically I am trying to figure out how to put together a substantial 5 axis mill on the cheap. I've been working with a company that makes and purchases a lot of parts made on 5 axis mills and the flexibility of a 5 axis setup is impressive. Or am I on the wrong track.Should I just look for a 5 axis mill with dead controls and convert it? Any suggestions? Dave On 5/3/2011 6:16 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: > As I hand code and can therefore control direction the rotaries move I can > cut against the play/backlash inherent in the cheap rotaries I use, often the > B axis will be locked though for greater rigidity. > Im mostly cutting light weight brass blanks though. > > A reason I hand code is I cannot afford CAM software to do the type of > work I do. > here the benefits of Ocode subroutines come into their own. > > So for a helical Im using XZ for the cut Y to cut deeper A for the > helix rotation along > the blank and B to set angle to get the cutter in line with the groove. > > so the gcode has a number of constants to set before use eg > #=160 > #=[.100] (cut depth adjust as needed) > #=.25 > #=81 > > then after some preamble and calculations of settings for a particular gear eg > > #=[[sin[90-#]]*#] > > then the subroutine > O100 sub (subroutine to cut N teeth) > #=0 > O101 while [# lt #3] >G1 f4 X0 Y#2 (move to cut start) >G91 (set relative) > >G1 F4 x[0-#4] a[0-#5] z#6 > (M30) (stop to test if tool hits rotary table) > >G0 y[0-#2] >G1 F50 x[#4] a#5 z[0-#6] (actual cut) > ( G91 )(set relative) >G0 A#1 (rotate blank) >G90 (set incremental) >#=[#+1] > O101 endwhile > O100 endsub > > then the lines > (B can be locked after this next line) > G1 f60 b[0-#] (set helix 90 deg to cutter rotation) > O100 call [#] [0-#] [#] > [0-#] [#] > [0-[#]] > > I leave commented lines in > 1) to uncomment to stop the code at certain points while setting up and > 2) to remember what I did > I also use sensible names for the variables I hope. > > The touch off to get the cutter on the centreline in my case is a pain. > > > Dave Caroline > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Steve wrote: > >> Hi Dave: >> >> So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you >> rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting plane, >> locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? >> >> Steve Van Der Loo >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 >> From: Dave Caroline >> >> For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have >> been cutting gears for clocks >> on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it >> happens to suit the work I do. >> >> Dave Caroline >> >> >> >> >> -- >> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software >> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network >> management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial >> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
As I hand code and can therefore control direction the rotaries move I can cut against the play/backlash inherent in the cheap rotaries I use, often the B axis will be locked though for greater rigidity. Im mostly cutting light weight brass blanks though. A reason I hand code is I cannot afford CAM software to do the type of work I do. here the benefits of Ocode subroutines come into their own. So for a helical Im using XZ for the cut Y to cut deeper A for the helix rotation along the blank and B to set angle to get the cutter in line with the groove. so the gcode has a number of constants to set before use eg #=160 #=[.100] (cut depth adjust as needed) #=.25 #=81 then after some preamble and calculations of settings for a particular gear eg #=[[sin[90-#]]*#] then the subroutine O100 sub (subroutine to cut N teeth) #=0 O101 while [# lt #3] G1 f4 X0 Y#2 (move to cut start) G91 (set relative) G1 F4 x[0-#4] a[0-#5] z#6 (M30) (stop to test if tool hits rotary table) G0 y[0-#2] G1 F50 x[#4] a#5 z[0-#6] (actual cut) ( G91 )(set relative) G0 A#1 (rotate blank) G90 (set incremental) #=[#+1] O101 endwhile O100 endsub then the lines (B can be locked after this next line) G1 f60 b[0-#] (set helix 90 deg to cutter rotation) O100 call [#] [0-#] [#] [0-#] [#] [0-[#]] I leave commented lines in 1) to uncomment to stop the code at certain points while setting up and 2) to remember what I did I also use sensible names for the variables I hope. The touch off to get the cutter on the centreline in my case is a pain. Dave Caroline On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Steve wrote: > Hi Dave: > > So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you > rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting plane, > locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? > > Steve Van Der Loo > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 > From: Dave Caroline > > For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have > been cutting gears for clocks > on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it > happens to suit the work I do. > > Dave Caroline > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
one example if you have a XYZAB machine like my cinci (AB tilts the tool) a kinematics in the machine allow me to program a drill cycle, use W instead of Z, and drill along the axis of the tool no matter what angle the tool is tilting. On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > you may not need any 'special' kinematics in your machine control if your > post processor has the kinematic calculations in it > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve wrote: > >> Hi Dave: >> >> So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you >> rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting plane, >> locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? >> >> Steve Van Der Loo >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 >> From: Dave Caroline >> >> For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have >> been cutting gears for clocks >> on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it >> happens to suit the work I do. >> >> Dave Caroline >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software >> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network >> management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial >> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > > > > -- > dos centavos > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
you may not need any 'special' kinematics in your machine control if your post processor has the kinematic calculations in it On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve wrote: > Hi Dave: > > So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you > rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting plane, > locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? > > Steve Van Der Loo > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 > From: Dave Caroline > > For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have > been cutting gears for clocks > on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it > happens to suit the work I do. > > Dave Caroline > > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - post processor
A cam system will still need a 5 axis post processor to be able to output 5 axis gcode. It will need to be matched to the machines kinematic capability. The simplification of programming a (in the control) kinematic module allows is plain operator/programmer readable code. If you have a program generated by the kinematics in the post processor the programmed point will be the pivot point of any axis(axes)that tilts the tool. A tilting rotary table is more directly readable but still takes practice (ie experience). A robot is another matter altogether. Six rotary axes is very difficult to read and understand. A (in the control) kinematics module is absolutely necessary to enable the operator/programmer to follow the end effector positioning. A post processor with a kinematics calculation can output the six rotary positions to move the tool as required. On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2011/5/3 Steve : > > Stuart Stevenson replied "agreed - the "kinematics" is in the g code > program > > - just having the machine control the axes is enough to be able to cut 5 > > axis parts" > > > > I was under the impression that the kinematics had to be written in EMC2 > for > > the coordinated movement between all the axes to function properly? > However > > what you say seems to make more sense. When the tool path is generated > by > > the CAM software, off the surfaces of the 3D model, the software uses the > > user selected post processor to output the G code for the desired tool > path. > > So it is the writer of the post processor that will have to know the > > orientation of the axis of the machine being used (hence the kinematic > > calculations) so that the G code is correct to produce the desired tool > > path. > > I think that You are on the right track. Sophisticated postprocessor > and kinematics module in EMC2 basically does the same thing - takes > the initial code and treats the kinematics specifics (adds different > compensating moves), and I think that it can be considered as a code > for a joint mode. > My personal opinion is that treating the unique machine-specific > kinematic calculations in a kinematics module is more desirable than > in a postprocessor because of 2 reasons: > 1) cost perspective - AFAIK producers of CAM applications enjoy > charging their clients for development of postprocessors for > particular machines (I have been asking these questions to authors of > CAM applications for 5axis waterjet cutting), EMC already provides > kinematic modules for most popular types of machines and it is easy > (and almost always does not cost anything) to tweak them to suit > particular machine. With an exception - I have not been able to get > genserkins work with linear joints and unfortunately have not received > any support from mailing list members on this matter, although I tried > to ask for it; > 2) ease of use - user can overview, adjust and/or correct the code, if > it is necessary, when it does not contain information about > kinematics. But I do not see it possible to review and understand code > for a puma arm, where axis commands actually are joint positions. User > of those postprocessors is bound to them, it is very difficult to do > anything with their machine without it. > > Viesturs > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - post processor
2011/5/3 Steve : > Stuart Stevenson replied "agreed - the "kinematics" is in the g code program > - just having the machine control the axes is enough to be able to cut 5 > axis parts" > > I was under the impression that the kinematics had to be written in EMC2 for > the coordinated movement between all the axes to function properly? However > what you say seems to make more sense. When the tool path is generated by > the CAM software, off the surfaces of the 3D model, the software uses the > user selected post processor to output the G code for the desired tool path. > So it is the writer of the post processor that will have to know the > orientation of the axis of the machine being used (hence the kinematic > calculations) so that the G code is correct to produce the desired tool > path. I think that You are on the right track. Sophisticated postprocessor and kinematics module in EMC2 basically does the same thing - takes the initial code and treats the kinematics specifics (adds different compensating moves), and I think that it can be considered as a code for a joint mode. My personal opinion is that treating the unique machine-specific kinematic calculations in a kinematics module is more desirable than in a postprocessor because of 2 reasons: 1) cost perspective - AFAIK producers of CAM applications enjoy charging their clients for development of postprocessors for particular machines (I have been asking these questions to authors of CAM applications for 5axis waterjet cutting), EMC already provides kinematic modules for most popular types of machines and it is easy (and almost always does not cost anything) to tweak them to suit particular machine. With an exception - I have not been able to get genserkins work with linear joints and unfortunately have not received any support from mailing list members on this matter, although I tried to ask for it; 2) ease of use - user can overview, adjust and/or correct the code, if it is necessary, when it does not contain information about kinematics. But I do not see it possible to review and understand code for a puma arm, where axis commands actually are joint positions. User of those postprocessors is bound to them, it is very difficult to do anything with their machine without it. Viesturs -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
Hi Dave: So when are "special kinematics" needed? When are they not? Are you rotating your gear blank about A&B to establish the desired cutting plane, locking it in that position, and then cutting with XYZ? Steve Van Der Loo Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:36:04 +0100 From: Dave Caroline For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have been cutting gears for clocks on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it happens to suit the work I do. Dave Caroline -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - post processor
that is exactly correct for conventional 4/5 axis control if you want to simplify the programming you can develop kinematics for the machine this will allow simple programs to do complicated motion - it is not necessary for 5 axis motion - sometimes it is not desirable to get where you need to go right now having the post processor do the kinematic calculations is probably best you will always be able to start the machine with separate ini files to use posted kinematics or 'in the control' kinematics On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Steve wrote: > Stuart Stevenson replied "agreed - the "kinematics" is in the g code > program > - just having the machine control the axes is enough to be able to cut 5 > axis parts" > > I was under the impression that the kinematics had to be written in EMC2 > for > the coordinated movement between all the axes to function properly? > However > what you say seems to make more sense. When the tool path is generated by > the CAM software, off the surfaces of the 3D model, the software uses the > user selected post processor to output the G code for the desired tool > path. > So it is the writer of the post processor that will have to know the > orientation of the axis of the machine being used (hence the kinematic > calculations) so that the G code is correct to produce the desired tool > path. Am I understanding this correctly? Then is it a matter of setting > up > the correct axis in the ini and other files of EMC2 to achieve motion of > the > XYZAB axes? > > Thank you for your help - Steve Van Der Loo > > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center - post processor
Stuart Stevenson replied "agreed - the "kinematics" is in the g code program - just having the machine control the axes is enough to be able to cut 5 axis parts" I was under the impression that the kinematics had to be written in EMC2 for the coordinated movement between all the axes to function properly? However what you say seems to make more sense. When the tool path is generated by the CAM software, off the surfaces of the 3D model, the software uses the user selected post processor to output the G code for the desired tool path. So it is the writer of the post processor that will have to know the orientation of the axis of the machine being used (hence the kinematic calculations) so that the G code is correct to produce the desired tool path. Am I understanding this correctly? Then is it a matter of setting up the correct axis in the ini and other files of EMC2 to achieve motion of the XYZAB axes? Thank you for your help - Steve Van Der Loo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
agreed - the "kinematics" is in the g code program - just having the machine control the axes is enough to be able to cut 5 axis parts On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dave Caroline wrote: > For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have > been cutting gears for clocks > on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it > happens to suit the work I do. > > Dave Caroline > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Steve wrote: > > I am interested in adding a trunnion and rotary table to my existing > > machining center. The frame is excellent but the control is dead so I > was > > thinking about using EMC2. Is there someone out there that has a > successful > > running machine that I could talk to and get me going? Also is creating > the > > kinematics for this type of 5 axis machine something that could be > covered > > at the EMCfest? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Steve Van Der Loo > > > > Tube Gauge Inspection Fixtures Inc > > > > 420 Neptune Cres > > > > London, ON N6M 1A1 > > > > > > > > www.tgifinc.com > > > > > > > > 519-659-3418 > > > > fax 519-489-1413 > > > > > > > > > -- > > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
For certain classes of work you dont need special kinematics, I have been cutting gears for clocks on a mill with stacked A on B, I hand craft the gcode though, as it happens to suit the work I do. Dave Caroline On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Steve wrote: > I am interested in adding a trunnion and rotary table to my existing > machining center. The frame is excellent but the control is dead so I was > thinking about using EMC2. Is there someone out there that has a successful > running machine that I could talk to and get me going? Also is creating the > kinematics for this type of 5 axis machine something that could be covered > at the EMCfest? > > > > Thank you > > > > Steve Van Der Loo > > Tube Gauge Inspection Fixtures Inc > > 420 Neptune Cres > > London, ON N6M 1A1 > > > > www.tgifinc.com > > > > 519-659-3418 > > fax 519-489-1413 > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EYaM4FkASA&feature=related it would be a simple thing to modify the kinematics to do a tilting rotary table On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Steve wrote: > I am interested in adding a trunnion and rotary table to my existing > machining center. The frame is excellent but the control is dead so I was > thinking about using EMC2. Is there someone out there that has a > successful > running machine that I could talk to and get me going? Also is creating > the > kinematics for this type of 5 axis machine something that could be covered > at the EMCfest? > > > > Thank you > > > > Steve Van Der Loo > > Tube Gauge Inspection Fixtures Inc > > 420 Neptune Cres > > London, ON N6M 1A1 > > > > www.tgifinc.com > > > > 519-659-3418 > > fax 519-489-1413 > > > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 3+2 axis machining center
I am interested in adding a trunnion and rotary table to my existing machining center. The frame is excellent but the control is dead so I was thinking about using EMC2. Is there someone out there that has a successful running machine that I could talk to and get me going? Also is creating the kinematics for this type of 5 axis machine something that could be covered at the EMCfest? Thank you Steve Van Der Loo Tube Gauge Inspection Fixtures Inc 420 Neptune Cres London, ON N6M 1A1 www.tgifinc.com 519-659-3418 fax 519-489-1413 -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
