Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
John Thornton wrote: > Just goes to show you never know what is tucked away in the hills of south > east Missouri... > If I had to guess I would have guessed a job shop to support the lumber > industry. > I'm glad it is bigger than that. There's a LOT of aerospace work in MO. The old McDonnell-Douglas plant, now owned by Boeing, in St. Louis, also Sabreliner has a big overhaul facility here. McDonnell sold off its major fabrication plant to GKN, which does work for just about every aerospace outfit. Boeing has had a major facility in Wichita for nearly forever, as well as Cessna, and there are subcontractors for several hundred miles around. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Robert, The learning curve is really not very steep. For the tool length offset all you need to do is play with the tool length commands and the tool table a little bit. Same for the homing - g54,g55 ... situation. You will quickly learn to use the tool length offsets and g54 ... and never look back. Stuart - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Just goes to show you never know what is tucked away in the hills of south east Missouri... If I had to guess I would have guessed a job shop to support the lumber industry. I'm glad it is bigger than that. John On 9 May 2008 at 23:57, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > > > > John Thornton wrote: > >> Stuart, > >> > >> Eminence is the center of the universe almost... I thought the only > >> thing you could do there was rent a canoe or a tube. > > Oh, they have a grocery store, and I think a building/lumber > > supply, or maybe that is in Salem. A friend of mine inherited a > > cabin on the Current River, so I know the area a bit. > > I'm guessing it is a small shop? What kind of > >> work do you do there? > > John, >Eminence has a grocery store, lumber yard, two gas stations, two > banks, six restaurants and TWO machine shops. It is a real town. :) >Eminence Manufacturing Inc. makes aircraft parts for: > GKN - St. Louis > Boeing - Philadelphia, Seattle, St. Louis > L3Com - Pensacola > > > Don't know about his shop in Eminence, but see his video > > of his recent Cincinnatti conversion! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M > > > > This is a kind of awesome that makes me lean back in my chair > > when the head moves out toward me! > > > > Jon > > > > -- > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference > Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save > $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com > /javaone ___ Emc-users > mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
> > John Thornton wrote: >> Stuart, >> >> Eminence is the center of the universe almost... I thought the only thing >> you could >> do there was rent a canoe or a tube. > Oh, they have a grocery store, and I think a building/lumber > supply, or maybe that is in Salem. A friend of mine inherited a > cabin on the Current River, so I know the area a bit. > I'm guessing it is a small shop? What kind of >> work do you do there? John, Eminence has a grocery store, lumber yard, two gas stations, two banks, six restaurants and TWO machine shops. It is a real town. :) Eminence Manufacturing Inc. makes aircraft parts for: GKN - St. Louis Boeing - Philadelphia, Seattle, St. Louis L3Com - Pensacola > Don't know about his shop in Eminence, but see his video > of his recent Cincinnatti conversion! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M > > This is a kind of awesome that makes me lean back in my chair > when the head moves out toward me! > > Jon > - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
John Thornton wrote: > Stuart, > > Eminence is the center of the universe almost... I thought the only thing you > could > do there was rent a canoe or a tube. Oh, they have a grocery store, and I think a building/lumber supply, or maybe that is in Salem. A friend of mine inherited a cabin on the Current River, so I know the area a bit. I'm guessing it is a small shop? What kind of > work do you do there? Don't know about his shop in Eminence, but see his video of his recent Cincinnatti conversion! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M This is a kind of awesome that makes me lean back in my chair when the head moves out toward me! Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Stuart, To answer your question, I work for TouchNet in Lenexa we make financial software for colleges. I am in change of developing PII (personally identifiable information) security software to prevent identity theft. I used to go to Wichita for work fairly frequently, however that is not the case any more. But, hopefully I will find a reason to go down one of these days. They YARD STORE rocks!!! If you are in KC email me and we can meet. WGB PS Currently, I have a 1984 Jakobsen SJ618 automatic surface grinder I am working on. For those who do not know, Jakobsen makes one of the best grinders. They build them in Denmark. They are also very expensive. Clausing used to import them but stopped because they were too expensive. It only has 1000 total hours on it (powered up) - got to love Lake CIty for buying equipment and never using it then selling it for scrap value! It looks as if it was used very little! I am tempted to throw out the old 8086 cpu and install EMC. >John, > We can forgive you for not living in God's country. Although, I >cannot gripe too much about southeast Missouri. I have a machine shop >in Eminence, Mo. > I tell people that Eminence is not the end of the world but you can >see it from there. :) > They don't have any EMC machines - YET! > When I get the retrofit down to a week or two instead of a year or >two I will put some controls on machine there. >WGB > You are welcome to stop by here whenever you would like. > What do you do in Lenexa? > I get to KC once in a while as I have a sister that lives in Shawnee. > I understand the wife thing. My wife just walked in and told me it >was time to get busy. I told her I AM busy. She just doesn't >understand. > O well, BBL :) >thanks >Stuart - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Stuart, Eminence is the center of the universe almost... I thought the only thing you could do there was rent a canoe or a tube. I'm guessing it is a small shop? What kind of work do you do there? Next time your down inspecting the troops you need to swing by... John On 8 May 2008 at 19:19, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 17:26:40 -0600 > > From: "John Thornton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look > > for?? To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > I'm not in Kansas but I'm in south east Missouri, Poplar Bluff to be > > exact. > > > > John > > > John, >We can forgive you for not living in God's country. Although, I > cannot gripe too much about southeast Missouri. I have a machine shop > in Eminence, Mo. >I tell people that Eminence is not the end of the world but you can > see it from there. :) >They don't have any EMC machines - YET! >When I get the retrofit down to a week or two instead of a year or > two I will put some controls on machine there. > > WGB >You are welcome to stop by here whenever you would like. >What do you do in Lenexa? >I get to KC once in a while as I have a sister that lives in >Shawnee. > >I understand the wife thing. My wife just walked in and told me it > was time to get busy. I told her I AM busy. She just doesn't > understand. >O well, BBL :) > > thanks > Stuart > > -- > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference > Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save > $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com > /javaone ___ Emc-users > mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
> > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 17:26:40 -0600 > From: "John Thornton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for?? > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > I'm not in Kansas but I'm in south east Missouri, Poplar Bluff to be exact. > > John > John, We can forgive you for not living in God's country. Although, I cannot gripe too much about southeast Missouri. I have a machine shop in Eminence, Mo. I tell people that Eminence is not the end of the world but you can see it from there. :) They don't have any EMC machines - YET! When I get the retrofit down to a week or two instead of a year or two I will put some controls on machine there. WGB You are welcome to stop by here whenever you would like. What do you do in Lenexa? I get to KC once in a while as I have a sister that lives in Shawnee. I understand the wife thing. My wife just walked in and told me it was time to get busy. I told her I AM busy. She just doesn't understand. O well, BBL :) thanks Stuart - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
I'm not in Kansas but I'm in south east Missouri, Poplar Bluff to be exact. John On 8 May 2008 at 8:29, Witek GB wrote: > > Dave, > > I live in Lenexa Kansas a suburb of Kansas City. I hopped to go to the > EMC CNC workshop in IL however around that time I have a prior > engagement with my wife. If I would go she would kill me and the > machining hobby would be out the window. I might go next year. Is > there anyone else in KC using EMC? > > WGB - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Witek GB wrote: > Dave, > > I live in Lenexa Kansas a suburb of Kansas City. I hopped to go to the > EMC CNC workshop in IL however around that time I have a prior > engagement with my wife. If I would go she would kill me and the > machining hobby would be out the window. I might go next year. Is > there anyone else in KC using EMC? Stuart Stevenson has it runing on several large machines in Wichita, which is not too far. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Dave Engvall wrote: > I didn't (don't) know any better so I consider the Mazak ATC as > pretty standard in complexity. > Some of those on the horizontals must be simpler since they change > tools in 2 sec or so. > The Mazak Micro 5 has a part that swings the holder 90 degrees from the plane of the tool wheel to the plane of the spindle, then the changer arm swaps them, then that part swings the tool back up to the wheel. Many smaller changers have the tool carousel in the same plane as the spindle so there is just the one arm that does a down-spin-up motion. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Dave, I live in Lenexa Kansas a suburb of Kansas City. I hopped to go to the EMC CNC workshop in IL however around that time I have a prior engagement with my wife. If I would go she would kill me and the machining hobby would be out the window. I might go next year. Is there anyone else in KC using EMC? WGB - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
On May 7, 2008, at 7:24 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Witek GB wrote: >> I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an >> ATC. >> I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have >> manual >> machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual >> machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look >> for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what >> to look >> for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball >> screws are >> good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and >> maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated > Servo motors are pretty tough. Really old encoders had light > bulbs in them. They can be retrofitted with infrared LEDs. > Many older machines had resolvers instead of encoders. (I'm > working on a lower-cost retrofit for those, but it may still be > cheaper to install US Digital encoders where they will fit.) I happen to like the Koyo's from Automation Direct but a lot of people use the USD's. > > Ball screws are fairly hard to evaluate in the field. You can > put a dial indicator on the table and see how far you can turn > the screw by hand to check backlash. The real problem comes when the ball screws are inaccessible. > > The general condition of the machine can be a useful guide. If > every nook and cranny is stuffed with chips, and layers of brown > sludge coats everything, you know the machine was run hard in > heavy production. That will take its toll. Gee, that describes my Mazak. Aluminum chips everywhere. If I had been thinking I would have had it steam cleaned before I got it into the shop. > > As for the ATC, the simpler it is, the easier it will be to get > EMC to control it. If it is a massively complicated hydraulic > monster with several changer arms, lots of position sensors, > etc. then it will be more complicated. Ray Henry did manage to > get the Mazak working at Roland's shop. That is a pretty > complex ATC. Remember that the tooling is a major expense on > these machines, a rack of NMTB 40 holders and collets is worth a > LOT more than most older machines. I didn't (don't) know any better so I consider the Mazak ATC as pretty standard in complexity. Some of those on the horizontals must be simpler since they change tools in 2 sec or so. Indeed there is a major investment in 40 of 50 taper toolholders; which is a reason to acquire machines with one type of holder. Most of the machines will have CAT40 toolholders but of course you will see some CAT50's and a few NMTB's. BTW -- Witek GB where are you? > > Jon > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference > Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save > $100. > Use priority code J8TL2D2. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http:// > java.sun.com/javaone > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Witek GB wrote: > I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. > I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual > machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual > machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look > for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look > for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are > good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and > maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated Servo motors are pretty tough. Really old encoders had light bulbs in them. They can be retrofitted with infrared LEDs. Many older machines had resolvers instead of encoders. (I'm working on a lower-cost retrofit for those, but it may still be cheaper to install US Digital encoders where they will fit.) Ball screws are fairly hard to evaluate in the field. You can put a dial indicator on the table and see how far you can turn the screw by hand to check backlash. The general condition of the machine can be a useful guide. If every nook and cranny is stuffed with chips, and layers of brown sludge coats everything, you know the machine was run hard in heavy production. That will take its toll. As for the ATC, the simpler it is, the easier it will be to get EMC to control it. If it is a massively complicated hydraulic monster with several changer arms, lots of position sensors, etc. then it will be more complicated. Ray Henry did manage to get the Mazak working at Roland's shop. That is a pretty complex ATC. Remember that the tooling is a major expense on these machines, a rack of NMTB 40 holders and collets is worth a LOT more than most older machines. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Ah! Brave soul but on the right track. Having converted a Mazak V5 I have a certain viewpoint. Looking at the emc wiki pages on the conversion of the Mazak at Cardinal Engineering will give a slightly different view. My Mazak was well used and had apparently cut Al all of its life. Backlash on X and Y is in the range of 3 thou. Z is a bit tighter. I think the Galesburg Mazak is somewhat tighter. Mine had a dead 7M control. I think the control on the one at Galesburg still worked but it went away anyway as the intent was to demonstrate conversion of a machine to emc including toolchange. My experience with the Mazak leads me to believe that 1980 servo drives should be replaced with something more modern. On the other hand you probably want to retain the servo motors as they will be well matched to the machine. Encoders/resolvers are another thing to watch although I hear rumors that Jon Elson is doing a resolver to digital conversion board. I removed the resolvers from the servo motors and replaced the Z axis with an encoder and installed encoders on the X and Y ballscrews. If you have the room you might want to consider a horizontal machine rather that a vertical but they tend to be larger. Plan ahead of time for a source of 3 phase; either real or a good converter. Pick Ray Henry's brains and the other people involved in the conversion at Galesburg. If you can make it to fest ( http://www.cnc-workshop.com/ ) this year you can pick the brains of the conversion crew for the Mazak in person. Dave On May 7, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Witek GB wrote: > I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an > ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I > have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I > see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What > should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that > show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I > determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will > use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production > runs. Any help is appreciated > > WGB > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference > Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save > $100. > Use priority code J8TL2D2. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http:// > java.sun.com/javaone___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated WGB - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
