Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik -- The right half of the brain controls the left half of the body. This means that only left handed people are in their right mind. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik -- Billy Huddleston Inner Vision *William Huddleston Inner Vision Development Corp* Office: 865.560.2752 Fax: 865.560.2703 http://www.ivdc.com *Development and Consulting... Simplified.* http://www.facebook.com/pages/Inner-Vision-Development/120023721424 http://twitter.com/ivdc http://www.linkedin.com/in/ivdccorp -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
The best practice is to put a diode right at the device that can cause the voltage spike.I usually use socket-ed relays and I put the diode across the coil screw terminals. The same with motor contactors and hydraulic/pneumatic solenoid valve coils that are driven by DC circuits. You can buy relays that have a built in suppressor diodes but they are cheap and easy to add.The last batch I bought was from Digikey and I think they were $.20 each or less. Dave On 10/3/2014 11:38 AM, Billy Huddleston wrote: Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On Friday 03 October 2014 11:38:26 Billy Huddleston did opine And Gene did reply: Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Short answer is no, and so is the long answer. Speaking as the CET I am: Those diodes need to be as close to the coil as physically possible, right across the coil terminals or located on the lines on the pcb going to the terminals. for best response time considerations. Not beyind the coil, but between the coiul and its drive. Generally a 1n914 is sufficient for small coils, maybe a generic 1N4000 family for bigger coils, but if you can find something faster than a 1N4000 series, the rest of the circuit will applaud you. Schotkey would be even better as long as the normally applied coil voltage is within the schotkeys reverse ratings. Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
Hello, I've been retrofitting an old lathe with LInuxCNC. An old 9-step electromagnetic gearbox was replaced with Toshiba VFS-11, old asyncronous servo motors got replaced with a couple of newer servos in position mode. Thus I use 5i25+7i76 on D525MW. First I successfully set up the VFD for manual 3 step gearbox, then I connected Z axis servo drive and it was jogging around pretty well. The next day I powered up the PC and Z servo drive (but not VFD), the PC started booting. I remember the boot log appearing and then suddenly the screen gets black. Since then no picture from that PC, even no bios logo. I checked the display, the PSU etc with no success. It looks like the D525MW is dead. Pretty frustrating. Here's the first question: could it burn because of some electromagnetic issues? I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). The (chinese) servo drive was connected to STEP/DIR in differential mode. The servo drive is supplied directly from 220V, but it has opto-isolated enable input, I connected it to GND and one of the field outputs. Later I took another D525MW which had been used with 7i43 + 7i48. But somehow this D525MW doesn't see the 5i25 board. I get ... hm2_pci.ko: No such device error. lspci doesn't list 5i25. But the 5i25 lists on another PC and the config starts OK. The second question: what can be wrong with this D525MW? Thanks! -- Andrew -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On 2 October 2014 12:41, Andrew pkm...@gmail.com wrote: The next day I powered up the PC and Z servo drive (but not VFD), the PC started booting. I remember the boot log appearing and then suddenly the screen gets black. Since then no picture from that PC, even no bios logo. I checked the display, the PSU etc with no success. It looks like the D525MW is dead. Pretty frustrating. Does the board have an alternative graphics port? (HDMI or VGA or something?) Is there any sign of life at all? Can you ssh into it? Do the ethernet LEDs flicker when you turn it on? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
Andrew - I have 3 D525MWs, two with Mesa 5i25 cards. One's been in operation for almost 2 years, the other is a new install that I'm completing. Not being an expert in this area, but I did purchase a small switching supply for field power, (12v in my case) and I have another 5v one for analogue spindle control. When disconnected from your machine, what voltages do you see on the pc power supply bus? I wonder if the PC power supply is in trouble? Can you test the 5i25 boards with a known good PSU, without the 5i25 cards? It is a hassle, but switching boards is a fairly quick operation, especially if only for testing purposes. JohnS. On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Andrew pkm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been retrofitting an old lathe with LInuxCNC. An old 9-step electromagnetic gearbox was replaced with Toshiba VFS-11, old asyncronous servo motors got replaced with a couple of newer servos in position mode. Thus I use 5i25+7i76 on D525MW. First I successfully set up the VFD for manual 3 step gearbox, then I connected Z axis servo drive and it was jogging around pretty well. The next day I powered up the PC and Z servo drive (but not VFD), the PC started booting. I remember the boot log appearing and then suddenly the screen gets black. Since then no picture from that PC, even no bios logo. I checked the display, the PSU etc with no success. It looks like the D525MW is dead. Pretty frustrating. Here's the first question: could it burn because of some electromagnetic issues? I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). The (chinese) servo drive was connected to STEP/DIR in differential mode. The servo drive is supplied directly from 220V, but it has opto-isolated enable input, I connected it to GND and one of the field outputs. Later I took another D525MW which had been used with 7i43 + 7i48. But somehow this D525MW doesn't see the 5i25 board. I get ... hm2_pci.ko: No such device error. lspci doesn't list 5i25. But the 5i25 lists on another PC and the config starts OK. The second question: what can be wrong with this D525MW? Thanks! -- Andrew -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On 2 October 2014 13:32, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if the PC power supply is in trouble? Can you test the 5i25 ...without the 5i25 cards? I had a problem where the D510 wouldn't boot at all with certain PCI riser cards. it took me 3 attempts to find one that worked. Probably not the problem here, but it might be worth trying with all the slots empty. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
2014-10-02 15:19 GMT+03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 2 October 2014 12:41, Andrew pkm...@gmail.com wrote: The next day I powered up the PC and Z servo drive (but not VFD), the PC started booting. I remember the boot log appearing and then suddenly the screen gets black. Since then no picture from that PC, even no bios logo. I checked the display, the PSU etc with no success. It looks like the D525MW is dead. Pretty frustrating. Does the board have an alternative graphics port? (HDMI or VGA or something?) No. But I tried an old PCI VGA card, still nothing. Is there any sign of life at all? Can you ssh into it? Do the ethernet LEDs flicker when you turn it on? Ethernet LEDS are dead too. The only thing it does is starting the PSU when the power button is pushed. Then nothing happens. -- Andrew -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
2014-10-02 15:32 GMT+03:00 John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com: Andrew - I have 3 D525MWs, two with Mesa 5i25 cards. One's been in operation for almost 2 years, the other is a new install that I'm completing. Not being an expert in this area, but I did purchase a small switching supply for field power, (12v in my case) and I have another 5v one for analogue spindle control. I have 2 switching PSUs at hand: a tiny 12V 2A PSU and 24V 350W PSU. I just did not want to use them for the test period... and it probably was a mistake. When disconnected from your machine, what voltages do you see on the pc power supply bus? I wonder if the PC power supply is in trouble? Can you test the 5i25 boards with a known good PSU, without the 5i25 cards? It is a hassle, but switching boards is a fairly quick operation, especially if only for testing purposes. I connected another D525MW to this PC and it works. But I should check the PSU thoroughly. Thank you. -- Andrew -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
2014-10-02 15:36 GMT+03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 2 October 2014 13:32, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if the PC power supply is in trouble? Can you test the 5i25 ...without the 5i25 cards? I had a problem where the D510 wouldn't boot at all with certain PCI riser cards. it took me 3 attempts to find one that worked. Probably not the problem here, but it might be worth trying with all the slots empty. Thank you. But no signs of life either, unfortunately. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. I would disconnect the suspect power supply and jumper it on and check the voltages at the power supply leads. I think that jumping the green wire to ground (black) will turn on the power supply. (I forget.) Check out the article below. http://www.techrepublic.com/article/troubleshooting-pc-power-supplies/ Dave On 10/2/2014 7:41 AM, Andrew wrote: Hello, I've been retrofitting an old lathe with LInuxCNC. An old 9-step electromagnetic gearbox was replaced with Toshiba VFS-11, old asyncronous servo motors got replaced with a couple of newer servos in position mode. Thus I use 5i25+7i76 on D525MW. First I successfully set up the VFD for manual 3 step gearbox, then I connected Z axis servo drive and it was jogging around pretty well. The next day I powered up the PC and Z servo drive (but not VFD), the PC started booting. I remember the boot log appearing and then suddenly the screen gets black. Since then no picture from that PC, even no bios logo. I checked the display, the PSU etc with no success. It looks like the D525MW is dead. Pretty frustrating. Here's the first question: could it burn because of some electromagnetic issues? I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). The (chinese) servo drive was connected to STEP/DIR in differential mode. The servo drive is supplied directly from 220V, but it has opto-isolated enable input, I connected it to GND and one of the field outputs. Later I took another D525MW which had been used with 7i43 + 7i48. But somehow this D525MW doesn't see the 5i25 board. I get ... hm2_pci.ko: No such device error. lspci doesn't list 5i25. But the 5i25 lists on another PC and the config starts OK. The second question: what can be wrong with this D525MW? Thanks! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
