Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 April 2014 00:15:07 Martin Dobbins did opine:

> Now, there's a coincidence,
> 
> I dumped Yahoo years ago due to bounced messages and started using 
> Hotmail for receipt of messages from this list.  I haven't had any
> problems until earlier today when I got a "bounced messages" note and
> had to resubscribe.
> 
> Martin

Martin, does your ISP not provide a mail server?

If they do (its rare they don't, its considered to be part of being an 
Internet Service Provider), use it.

I "pop3" all my mail here using a combination of fetchmail, procmail, 
ClawsAV, and Spamassassin, from 3 different mail servers, two of which 
alias to gmail addresses, so I use the tv stations server, where I have a 
lifetime account.

Setting up how I do it is quite a project as it takes about 20 minutes to 
bring it up on the next linux install, but once its setup, I get new mail 
at 3 minute intervals delivered directly to my machine.

Using kmail (no windows software here, ever), I am subbed to about 50 
lists.  I walk in, sit down, tap the space bar or move the mouse to wake up 
the monitor, make sure I am on the kmail window (I have 10 different 
screens setup in kde), hit the keyboards + key next to the numeric keypad 
to read the next unread message.  If I need to reply, I chose the reply 
style with one mouse click, type my answer and click send.  Hit the + key 
again, repeat as needed till I am out of unread mail.

Other than restarting kmail about every other day because its gets laggy 
trying to keep track of an email corpus thats about 15Gb, I don't have to 
do anything else.  No logging into some webmail server loaded with flashing 
color advertisements with a browser with a volatile password and then 
trolling thru the list presented in their choice of formats, all the while 
closing all the popups that want to install keyloggers and viri on your 
machine.  For me, this Just Works(TM).  Anything else is way more work, and 
a PIMA to me.

> > From: ATP
> > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:46:09 +0100
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension
> > of  list subscriptions
> > 
> > On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
> > > On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 06:19:09PM -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
> > > 
> > > Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
> > > today
> > 
> > Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?
> 
> 
> -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 April 2014 23:58:06 Chris Radek did opine:

> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 03:46:09AM +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
> > > Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
> > > today
> > 
> > Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?
> 
> Yes it would be possible to do that.
> 
> It looks like I could also ban yahoo users from (re)subscribing.

I hate to see us losing the users Chris, but convincing them to move their 
email portal back to their own ISP does seems to be the best advice to pass 
on via the unsub message sent.  And make it plain that moving to AOL, who 
has now started the same miss-conceived spam control stuff just in the last 
2 weeks, will not bypass the ban.  If enough people crawl up Yahoo's and 
AOL's nose about it, they will eventually hear the message.

Personally, incoming UCE here has in the last 2 weeks, been virtually 
reconfigured to be bayes poison.  So I am deleting 20 to 40 a day so they 
do not contaminate my bayes database.  I am also slowly building a list of 
ipv4 addresses, which if found in the headers, get it deleted from the 
server without ever being downloaded.  And I am not fussy, that list even 
has some class B addresses in it, and one class A.  Lots of class C, but 
zip Class D, no use blocking a class D unless you have a 10,000 terabyte 
drive to store them on.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Martin Dobbins]

Now, there's a coincidence,

I dumped Yahoo years ago due to bounced messages and started using  Hotmail for 
receipt of messages from this list.  I haven't had any problems until earlier 
today when I got a "bounced messages" note and had to resubscribe.

Martin

> From: ATP
> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:46:09 +0100
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of  
> list subscriptions
> 
> On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 06:19:09PM -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
> 
> > Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
> > today
> 
> Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?
> 
> 
> -- 
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
> --
> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
  
--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Chris Radek]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 10:12:53PM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
> 
> If you can, it's probably better to just ban the Yahoo users from
> posting (or put them all on moderation).

Yeah I think the only thing I could do is moderate all of them.

But I am not too anxious to do some yahoo-nuke and call it solved,
because I doubt yahoo is the last one to set p=reject.

I have no idea what to do except wait and hope the Mailman folks
come up with something (and sourceforge uses it).

I'm not the first one to notice that yahoo offers an alternative to
mailing lists:

http://lists.dmarc.org/pipermail/dmarc-discuss/2014-April/002459.html

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 4/26/2014 10:00 PM, Chris Radek wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 03:46:09AM +0100, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
>>
>>> Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
>>> today
>>
>> Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?
> 
> Yes it would be possible to do that.
> 
> It looks like I could also ban yahoo users from (re)subscribing.

If you can, it's probably better to just ban the Yahoo users from
posting (or put them all on moderation).

That will avoid any bounces caused by the new Yahoo DMARC reject policy,
but still allow Yahoo users to lurk (receiving messages from the list).
 If any other domains set their DMARC policy to reject, they'll have to
be moderated as well, but the receiving domains that are bouncing
messages (and there's quite a list) are simply obeying the policy
published by Yahoo that says to reject any mail with a yahoo.com domain
that didn't directly originate from Yahoo's defined server IPs, so if
you prevent yahoo.com emails from posting to the list, the bounces will
go away.

I've been through this with a mailing list I run for my neighborhood,
and there's basically no good solution.  I can't ban or moderate folks
with Yahoo accounts (it's about 20% of the users), so I have to break
RFCs and mangle the From: header.  I really wish the DMARC folks would
actually _try_ to work with the IETF to find a sensible solution rather
than just unilaterally nuke every mailing list in existence and make you
pick which standards you want to break.  

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Chris Radek]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 03:46:09AM +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
> 
> > Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
> > today
> 
> Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?

Yes it would be possible to do that.

It looks like I could also ban yahoo users from (re)subscribing.

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[andy pugh]

On 27 April 2014 03:00, Chris Radek  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 06:19:09PM -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:

> Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
> today

Is it possible to unsubscribe them all and send an email saying why?


-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Yahoo causes bounced messages and suspension of list subscriptions

[Chris Radek]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 06:19:09PM -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
>Hi.
>I just received notice that my membership was suspended due to excessive
>"bounces".
>I was able to successfully reinstate my membership but in the interest of
>retaining it I would like to know exactly what a "bounce" is and how I can
>avoid it in the future. The only thing I can think of is that I included a
>link in my message. Could that be what triggered it?
>Thanks,
>Greg

Greg, pardon me for replying in public to your private message;
this affects LOTS of people.

This is nothing you've done wrong.  Unfortunately this is caused by
some yahoo madness.  It's a very big problem, and it's not clear
what the fix is (except for yahoo to undo their change.)

Worse, the change that yahoo made causes people at OTHER providers
to be unsubscribed, too.  At least comcast, yahoo, hotmail, live,
sympatico, bellsouth, msn, and outlook users are being unsubscribed
because of this.

So in short, yahoo have singlehandedly broken all the existing
mailing lists in the world.  

The sourceforge bug:
http://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/7413/

Someone who figured out the problem earlier:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html

Unsubscribing/forbidding all yahoo users is the only possible fix
today (which would save people who use other providers from damage)
but that really stinks because yahoo is so popular.

Yahoo knows they broke mailing lists; see the bottom of their
announcement:

http://yahoomail.tumblr.com/post/82426900353/yahoo-dmarc-policy-change-what-should-senders-do

I have turned off bounce processing temporarily; I hope sourceforge
(and the mailman people) can come up with something soon, or yahoo
undoes the madness.

Meanwhile, if you've been looking for a reason to stop using yahoo
mail, here's a very good one.

If you are using yahoo mail, please don't respond to this message.
Instead, please let yahoo know that you are affected, or move to
another email provider.

Chris

--
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users