Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
Hi Jon, I've have a Panasonic MUMS0442A1A 400 W that has an encoder on the back. Also something on the order of a Getty Brushless that I know nothing about and an SEM that IIRC is a 115E seres that I believe has hall devices on it. The last two are buried down in the shop but I can get better numbers tomorrow. Dave On Aug 13, 2007, at 9:13 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: >> On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 21:27 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: >> >>> The Pac Sci is too high voltage. >> >> >> Is the amp voltage limited by the output component ratings? >> > Yes, I have 200 V FETs in there, as well as a number of other > parts at either 200 or 250 V rating. So, all of those would > have to be raised for operation above 150-160 V DC. >> >>> The Sanyo >>> sounds a lot better, but research shows it is a >>> sinusoidal-commutation motor, so it won't run well on my >>> brushless amp! Darn! >>> >>> Jon >> >> >> I am guessing that what makes a motor a certain type (sinusoidal vs. >> trapezoidal) is the physical layout of the windings and magnets? > Yes. A sinusoidal-commutation motor has the phase windings > overlapping just like a 3-phase AC motor. A > trapezoidal-commutation motor has them not overlap, but end > abruptly. Or, at least, that is what I think the difference is. > I don't think the magnets are different. If you use the wrong > drive scheme the motor will vibrate quite a bit. With > trapezoidal-comm. the servo amp only needs the 3 commutation > signals to know which coils to drive. With sinusoidal-comm. the > drive needs absolute position info, so it has to read the > encoder signals, and know how many encoder counts equals how > many electrical degrees through the sine wave. So, there is a > programming step involved to set the amp up to correspond to the > motor/encoder combo. I really wanted to avoid that. > > Jon > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 21:27 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > >>The Pac Sci is too high voltage. > > > Is the amp voltage limited by the output component ratings? > Yes, I have 200 V FETs in there, as well as a number of other parts at either 200 or 250 V rating. So, all of those would have to be raised for operation above 150-160 V DC. > >>The Sanyo >>sounds a lot better, but research shows it is a >>sinusoidal-commutation motor, so it won't run well on my >>brushless amp! Darn! >> >>Jon > > > I am guessing that what makes a motor a certain type (sinusoidal vs. > trapezoidal) is the physical layout of the windings and magnets? Yes. A sinusoidal-commutation motor has the phase windings overlapping just like a 3-phase AC motor. A trapezoidal-commutation motor has them not overlap, but end abruptly. Or, at least, that is what I think the difference is. I don't think the magnets are different. If you use the wrong drive scheme the motor will vibrate quite a bit. With trapezoidal-comm. the servo amp only needs the 3 commutation signals to know which coils to drive. With sinusoidal-comm. the drive needs absolute position info, so it has to read the encoder signals, and know how many encoder counts equals how many electrical degrees through the sine wave. So, there is a programming step involved to set the amp up to correspond to the motor/encoder combo. I really wanted to avoid that. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 21:27 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 11:20 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: > > ... snip > > > >>that weighs about twice the P5's. I have the specs on the Pac Sci, but I > >>don't recall what they are right now. What size motor were you looking > >>to test? > > > > > > The motors I have are: > > > > Sanyo P5 1.0kW 100Vac 9.6A P50B08100VCKS7 > > Yaskawa1.5kW 200Vac 7.5A SGMP-15U314MS > > Pacific Scientific 1.6kW 240Vac 6.7A R46GENA-HS-NS-NV-00 > The Yaskawa SGMP use proprietary encoder signals, and probably > is sinusoidal, too. That reminds me, I had planned on fitting my own encoder to to the Yaskawa. > The Pac Sci is too high voltage. Is the amp voltage limited by the output component ratings? > The Sanyo > sounds a lot better, but research shows it is a > sinusoidal-commutation motor, so it won't run well on my > brushless amp! Darn! > > Jon I am guessing that what makes a motor a certain type (sinusoidal vs. trapezoidal) is the physical layout of the windings and magnets? Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 11:20 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: > ... snip > >>that weighs about twice the P5's. I have the specs on the Pac Sci, but I >>don't recall what they are right now. What size motor were you looking >>to test? > > > The motors I have are: > > Sanyo P5 1.0kW 100Vac 9.6A P50B08100VCKS7 > Yaskawa1.5kW 200Vac 7.5A SGMP-15U314MS > Pacific Scientific 1.6kW 240Vac 6.7A R46GENA-HS-NS-NV-00 The Yaskawa SGMP use proprietary encoder signals, and probably is sinusoidal, too. The Pac Sci is too high voltage. The Sanyo sounds a lot better, but research shows it is a sinusoidal-commutation motor, so it won't run well on my brushless amp! Darn! Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 11:20 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: ... snip > that weighs about twice the P5's. I have the specs on the Pac Sci, but I > don't recall what they are right now. What size motor were you looking > to test? The motors I have are: Sanyo P5 1.0kW 100Vac 9.6A P50B08100VCKS7 Yaskawa1.5kW 200Vac 7.5A SGMP-15U314MS Pacific Scientific 1.6kW 240Vac 6.7A R46GENA-HS-NS-NV-00 Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 11:15 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: ... snip > to build them. If you actually need some, I could probably whip > a few up in short order, otherwise later this month sounds good. My other lathe project (Zubal) is on hold until I get the HNC making parts. I was going to say "until it is done" but I suspect these EMC conversions are never "done". I hope to be making parts with the HNC in a few weeks. The more practical little fellow on my right shoulder is saying... "yeah right, make that a few months". > I ran the proto with a big (2 Hp Nema 42) API motor I got off > eBay, and it performed well in the sense that it drove the motor > without anything bad happening. The motor is apparently set up > for sinusoidal commutation, and my drives are designed for > trapezoidal commutation. So, the motor hummed and vibrated > quite badly at several hundred RPM, no surprise. I'd like to > try it with a large trapezoidal commutation motor, if you have > one in mind. It needs to have the commutation (Hall) sensors > either in the motor or encoder to work with my servo amps. The Zubal has Sanyo P5 1.5kw motors. I have a Pacific Sci R20 motor that weighs about twice the P5's. I have the specs on the Pac Sci, but I don't recall what they are right now. What size motor were you looking to test? > Jon Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Amp
Kirk Wallace wrote: > Jon, > > I was at the pico system website today and noticed something I thought > was not there before - a brushless DC servo amp. When will they be > available? I have Rutex amps on my other lathe, but they need Windows > for tuning. I had two of them at the CNC Workshop. One was running the X axis on the minimill I had there. I have made some improvements since then, and have had a batch of new boards fabricated. I still have to order parts and program the pick and place machine to build them. If you actually need some, I could probably whip a few up in short order, otherwise later this month sounds good. I ran the proto with a big (2 Hp Nema 42) API motor I got off eBay, and it performed well in the sense that it drove the motor without anything bad happening. The motor is apparently set up for sinusoidal commutation, and my drives are designed for trapezoidal commutation. So, the motor hummed and vibrated quite badly at several hundred RPM, no surprise. I'd like to try it with a large trapezoidal commutation motor, if you have one in mind. It needs to have the commutation (Hall) sensors either in the motor or encoder to work with my servo amps. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
