Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-14 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 14 December 2020 01:14:32 Rafael Skodlar wrote:

> On 12/12/20 1:41 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> >>
> >> To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual
> >> page "man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction
> >> first time.
> >
> > Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is
> > that when the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?
> >
> > 
> >
> > John
>
> Example for file name linking would be easier to understand this way
>   ln -s original.file myFileName
>
> Note that -s means symbolic link that works across the partitions.
>
> Better yet just use manual pages for linking command
> man ln
>
> NAME
> ln - make links between files
>
> SYNOPSIS
> ln [OPTION]... [-T] TARGET LINK_NAME   (1st form)
> ln [OPTION]... TARGET  (2nd form)
> ln [OPTION]... TARGET... DIRECTORY (3rd form)
> ln [OPTION]... -t DIRECTORY TARGET...  (4th form)
>
> There is an excellent file management utility mc (Midnight Commander)
> as Gene has pointed out. It allows you to execute, copy, or look into
> any kind of file in text or hex mode which your windog crap can't do
> with default utilities! A GUI version of mc is krusader (in KDE) with
> the same layout.

And the last time I looked at it, it was still missing 75% of mc's 
capabilities. So bad that tde, forked from kde at about the 3.5 point, 
and which I've been using on 2 machines here for years, does not include 
it by default. I saw a file I wanted to delete, but couldn't find a 
delete button. So I'll still use mc out of habit. It does look improved, 
but not enough.

> Command line rules! Anybody can cut/paste a set of commands to tell
> others what to do for a certain effect. Impossible with GUI. What's
> also very important is the history of previously executed commands.
> You can repeat them or find out where you made a mistake.
>
> Command line has one other advantage, it tells you names of commands
> as soon as you start typing first few letters if you tap Tabs key,
> example: l Tab  <--- would respond with
> Display all 167 possibilities? (y or n)
> if you enter "y" then all commands will show up.
>
> All that Desktop crap is for people with IQ bellow 100 which is what
> the internet has come to. The latest trend is to create same
> sub-directories in users home directory as in Windows and call the
> folders. What's folded???
>
> That's total nuts. When the first letter of a directory or a file name
> is capitalized you need two fingers to handle it. How is that helpful
> to people with one hand or people with poor vision?
>
> LinuxCNC should work without GUI in the first place. A decent text
> based menu should be enough to run most jobs. Original or old CNC
> machines have no GUI in the first place! ncurses were invented way
> back to create nice menus on text terminals. Clicking on pixel icons
> does not add value!
>
> Enough of Computer literacy 001.
> 


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-13 Thread Rafael Skodlar 

On 12/12/20 1:41 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]

To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
"man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.


Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is that when 
the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?



John


Example for file name linking would be easier to understand this way
 ln -s original.file myFileName

Note that -s means symbolic link that works across the partitions.

Better yet just use manual pages for linking command
man ln

NAME
   ln - make links between files

SYNOPSIS
   ln [OPTION]... [-T] TARGET LINK_NAME   (1st form)
   ln [OPTION]... TARGET  (2nd form)
   ln [OPTION]... TARGET... DIRECTORY (3rd form)
   ln [OPTION]... -t DIRECTORY TARGET...  (4th form)

There is an excellent file management utility mc (Midnight Commander) as 
Gene has pointed out. It allows you to execute, copy, or look into any 
kind of file in text or hex mode which your windog crap can't do with 
default utilities! A GUI version of mc is krusader (in KDE) with the 
same layout.


Command line rules! Anybody can cut/paste a set of commands to tell 
others what to do for a certain effect. Impossible with GUI. What's also 
very important is the history of previously executed commands. You can 
repeat them or find out where you made a mistake.


Command line has one other advantage, it tells you names of commands as 
soon as you start typing first few letters if you tap Tabs key, example:

l Tab  <--- would respond with
Display all 167 possibilities? (y or n)
if you enter "y" then all commands will show up.

All that Desktop crap is for people with IQ bellow 100 which is what the 
internet has come to. The latest trend is to create same sub-directories 
in users home directory as in Windows and call the folders. What's folded???


That's total nuts. When the first letter of a directory or a file name 
is capitalized you need two fingers to handle it. How is that helpful to 
people with one hand or people with poor vision?


LinuxCNC should work without GUI in the first place. A decent text based 
menu should be enough to run most jobs. Original or old CNC machines 
have no GUI in the first place! ncurses were invented way back to create 
nice menus on text terminals. Clicking on pixel icons does not add value!


Enough of Computer literacy 001.


--
Rafael


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-13 Thread Nicklas SB Karlsson 

Den 2020-12-12 kl. 22:41, skrev John Dammeyer:

From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]

To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
"man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.


Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is that when 
the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?
Drop down menu in at least my file manager to do not have menu item to 
create a link. These soft link are a reference to another file, 
sometimes very useful, those desktop shortcuts used by some window 
managers are something totally different as they are ordinary files.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 12 December 2020 22:04:12 Chris Albertson wrote:

> This is NOT a "Raspberry Pi" thing, not even a "Linux thing" asking to
> run an executable is specific to Debian Buster.   I think Debian must
> be a distant 6th place among operating system running on Pi.  
> Raspberian is #1 by far, then a couple of versions of Ubuntu and then
> Debian.That said, all these other in 1st to 5th place are modified
> versions of Debian. Circular logic, I guess.  Butt goes to show most
> users prefer some modifications to Debian.

It (raspian) also is forced on pi users by debian's refusal to modify the 
boot partition layout to match that of the pi, which is different from 
most other arm offerings. In self defense because I need the realtime 
kernel, I developed an install method that does work on pi's. 

> BTW Apple's macOS makes a compromise.  It asks you only the first time
> you run the app.  It says "You are about to run this thing downloaded
> from the Internet, Are you sure?"  If you click "yes" it remembers and
> does not ask the next time.This is the best, I think.   It
> prevents people from getting tricked into running random software but
> is not so anoying.
>
> The problem with with Windows is you can't tell what will happen if
> you click an icon.  You click this thing that claims to be a nude
> photo of some celebrity and it really is a program that logs
> keystrokes and sends them to some Russian mafia guy who wants your
> password to your bank account.
>
> The neat thing about Debian is that it is open source and you can
> modify it any way you like
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 1:22 PM John Dammeyer 
>
> wrote:
> > The only conclusion I can come to, that the checked box for
> > executables isn't the default, is that indeed 99.9% of Raspberry Pi
> > users are not that bright where 100% of Windows users are.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread John Dammeyer 
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> 
> This is NOT a "Raspberry Pi" thing, not even a "Linux thing" asking to run
> an executable is specific to Debian Buster.   I think Debian must be a
> distant 6th place among operating system running on Pi.   Raspberian is #1
> by far, then a couple of versions of Ubuntu and then Debian.That said,
> all these other in 1st to 5th place are modified versions of Debian.
>  Circular logic, I guess.  Butt goes to show most users prefer some
> modifications to Debian.
> 
It would be interesting to collect screenshots of peoples Raspberry Pi 
desktops.  Obviously this excludes many of the PiZeroW and any of the headless 
Pi or BBB.  
 
My desktops on my workstations are quite busy but organized the same regardless 
of the PC.
 
So the development tools are all in the same row.  On all my systems so I know 
where to find things.
John
 
 
 
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Chris Albertson 
This is NOT a "Raspberry Pi" thing, not even a "Linux thing" asking to run
an executable is specific to Debian Buster.   I think Debian must be a
distant 6th place among operating system running on Pi.   Raspberian is #1
by far, then a couple of versions of Ubuntu and then Debian.That said,
all these other in 1st to 5th place are modified versions of Debian.
 Circular logic, I guess.  Butt goes to show most users prefer some
modifications to Debian.

BTW Apple's macOS makes a compromise.  It asks you only the first time you
run the app.  It says "You are about to run this thing downloaded from the
Internet, Are you sure?"  If you click "yes" it remembers and does not ask
the next time.This is the best, I think.   It prevents people from
getting tricked into running random software but is not so anoying.

The problem with with Windows is you can't tell what will happen if you
click an icon.  You click this thing that claims to be a nude photo of some
celebrity and it really is a program that logs keystrokes and sends them to
some Russian mafia guy who wants your password to your bank account.

The neat thing about Debian is that it is open source and you can modify it
any way you like

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 1:22 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> The only conclusion I can come to, that the checked box for executables
> isn't the default, is that indeed 99.9% of Raspberry Pi users are not that
> bright where 100% of Windows users are.
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 12 December 2020 20:53:57 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/12/2020 06:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Simple, works 100% of the time if you can type. I've never
> > ever found a file manager that actually gets it right
> > OOTB. I think theres an unwritten rule that it won't. Why
> > muck around with a file manager? Except for the swiss army
> > knife called mc, most don't do what they need then to do
> > anyway.  Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> For LinuxCNC, I create a toolbar launcher that has linuxcnc
> /blah/blah/configs//blah.ini

Exactly.

> so it launches LinuxCNC without having to select the configs
> file with the menu.  The procedure to create a toolbar
> launcher varies from Linux distro to distro, so I did not
> put that here.
>
> Jon
>
in a terminal, konsole preferred:
linuxcnc -l ENTER
has worked for arund 15 years on every distro we've supported.
Simple, skips the chooser stuff. As long as it is in your path, it just 
works. ISTR it even worked with my first BDI install. There were a lot 
of things broken with the bdi install at the time, but I don't recall 
that being one of them.

Thanks Jon.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Jon Elson 

On 12/12/2020 06:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
Simple, works 100% of the time if you can type. I've never 
ever found a file manager that actually gets it right 
OOTB. I think theres an unwritten rule that it won't. Why 
muck around with a file manager? Except for the swiss army 
knife called mc, most don't do what they need then to do 
anyway.  Cheers, Gene Heskett 
For LinuxCNC, I create a toolbar launcher that has linuxcnc 
/blah/blah/configs//blah.ini


so it launches LinuxCNC without having to select the configs 
file with the menu.  The procedure to create a toolbar 
launcher varies from Linux distro to distro, so I did not 
put that here.


Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread John Dammeyer 
> 
> On 12/12/2020 03:41 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> >>
> >> To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
> >> "man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.
> >>
> > Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is that 
> > when the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do
> it for you?
> >
> >
> Can you do symbolic links with the menus?
> 
> Jon
>
I guess the question is would you want to?  And if so why?  I haven't needed 
one yet.

I'd like to emphasize here we're dealing with LinuxCNC and a graphical user 
interface.  That means you have a mouse and a keyboard and possibly even a 
touch screen and perhaps even a pendant. 

The MDI line is obviously command line oriented because the language (G-Code) 
is strings of characters.   The File Menu drop down gives the ability to choose 
what file to load.  

Move over to OctoPrint which on a Beagle and Replicape has been driving me 
batty this week.   No command line there really.  In fact, the easy way is to 
drag the gcode file over to the left side of the user interface and drop it.  
Then double click on it to load it ready for 3D printing.

The days of going outside the card to manually crank the engine on the front 
and then carefully adjust the spark advance lever as you drive are over.  For 
many things the command line is the lazy way to a solution.  Especially when 
there are tools that make dialog and menu oriented programs easy to write.

John






___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Jon Elson 

On 12/12/2020 03:41 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]

To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
"man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.


Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is that when 
the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?



Can you do symbolic links with the menus?

Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Jon Elson 

On 12/12/2020 02:40 PM, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read 
manual page "man ln", I always create the link in the 
wrong direction first time.


Yes, me too!  It is just totally Unix-like that the 
parameters are reversed depending on if it is an ln command 
or ln -s.  There never was a style sheet for the command syntax.


Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 12 December 2020 16:41:29 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> >
> > To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
> > "man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first
> > time.
>
> Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is
> that when the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?
>
> 

I'm glad you put a GRIN on that, somebody might even think you are 
serious.

> John
>
Good grief Charley Brown.  How about learning to use that command line?

Open a Konsole, add a few tabs, and in one of them any of them type 
linuxcnc -lENTER

The -l tells linuxcnc to use the same gui it used the last time you ran 
it.

Simple, works 100% of the time if you can type. I've never ever found a 
file manager that actually gets it right OOTB. I think theres an 
unwritten rule that it won't. Why muck around with a file manager?  
Except for the swiss army knife called mc, most don't do what they need 
then to do anyway.



Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread John Dammeyer 
> From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> 
> To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page
> "man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.
> 
Oh gawd, that would mean using the command line.  How antiquated is that when 
the File manager drop down menu and dialogs do it for you?



John



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread Nicklas SB Karlsson 
To make a link to a file "ln -s filename filename", read manual page 
"man ln", I always create the link in the wrong direction first time.


Den 2020-12-12 kl. 19:48, skrev John Dammeyer:

Hi all,
This seems so elementary but has me perplexed.
  
For the last 30 years or so Microsoft Windows has had the ability to create desktop shortcuts that are small files that link to the physical executable.  My BeagleBone with MachineKit can do that and so can the Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 as well as a Pi3 I have with a standard desktop.
  
But the difference between the LinuxCNC Pi and all the others is that shortcut put on the desktop always throws up a dialog telling me what I already know.  That this program is trying to run and would I like that or do I want to run it in the Terminal.  The answer is always I want to run it.
  
All the other systems can either be configured or automatically just run the application.   The configuration in the various desktops is usually a checkbox.  So although LinuxCNC 2.8 on the Pi has created a small shortcut file it does not have the ability to not disable the dialog.  Other Linux systems do.  I could grab and provide screen shots showing the differences but that's probably not needed.
  
Is there a way in this version of the LinuxCNC to bring it 30 years into the future or even just do like MachineKit on the Beagle and not ask that stupid question each time?
  
Thanks.

John
  
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com
  


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread John Dammeyer 
Thank you.  I asked several other 'Linux' experts and their comments were all 
pretty well like this.
=
"Windows will just let you click nilly willy on anything to run it . 
yeah, that sounds real cool  what could possibly go wrong 

Makes me wonder when Windows will get around to doing it properly when 
Linux has been warning people forever when they are about to run an 
executable instead of bring up a document in a word processor or a 
picture in photo editing software or what-have-you."
=

The only conclusion I can come to, that the checked box for executables isn't 
the default, is that indeed 99.9% of Raspberry Pi users are not that bright 
where 100% of Windows users are.

Thanks again for finding that link.  I tried and failed.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December-12-20 11:49 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.
> 
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 18:50, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Is there a way in this version of the LinuxCNC to bring it 30 years into 
> > the future or even just do like MachineKit on the Beagle and
> not ask that stupid question each time?
> 
> I googled for "seems to be an executable script" and the first hit had
> the answer:
> 
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248380
> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread andy pugh 
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 18:50, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Is there a way in this version of the LinuxCNC to bring it 30 years into the 
> future or even just do like MachineKit on the Beagle and not ask that stupid 
> question each time?

I googled for "seems to be an executable script" and the first hit had
the answer:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248380


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi LinuxCNC 2.8 question.

2020-12-12 Thread andy pugh 
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 18:50, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Is there a way in this version of the LinuxCNC to bring it 30 years into the 
> future or even just do like MachineKit on the Beagle and not ask that stupid 
> question each time?

The desktop shortcut is just a little text file. Maybe comparing the
contents with a working shortcut would help?

But this _soulds_ like an excessively strict security policy.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users