Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
Nope, never fly. See if superglueing some heat sinks to them might help, and in my case, I have a pair of old psu fans running on about 18 volts to they really sing to you, one in each end of a box with the xylotex board in it, the box just fitting the outside dimensions of the fans, one blowing in one one end of the box, the other sucking out the other end, so I probably have a 20 mph breeze flowing across both sides of the pcb itself. I've had one fan fail in about 5 years, so if you start with decent computer psu pulls that claim to be ball bearing models, and it lasts 10 minutes at the higher voltage, it should last 5-10 years. I used 18 volts basically because that was the only lower tap I had on the motor psu I built from an old Ampex 2 videotape machine's drum motor power supply. Its a boat anchor if it ever fails... Watch the electrolytic caps, the things in alu cans with plastic wrappers but bare tops. If you see even a hint of bulging of the top of one of those, replace them last week if not before. I haven't read any horror stories about those, yet. But I am a retired C.E.T. and have been seeing problems with those ever since switching power supplies, with their light weight and high efficiencies causing a wholesale shift to their use for nearly everything. Switching power supplies however are _not_ good power supplies for this use, they cannot absorb the energy recycling currents that flow in these chopper stabilized drives without either letting the output voltages soar out of spec, or seeing it as an error and doing a protective shutdown, usually in the middle of the most intricate cut of the job. Been there, done that, built the linear, unregulated but huge output capacitance (75,000 uf, it was handy in my junk box) rig I now use in self defense. It hasn't even gotten warm in 5 years of running 4 motors on my mill, sometimes for several days straight. In any event, I don't think I would, even with heat sinks and fans, push those at above 2.0 amps/motor. That limit will only effect, generally speaking, the amount of force available at slow speeds. Only more voltage can get you above something like 20 a minute, and that will probably need dampers on the motors to achieve that. I'm at about 27.5, so I can go a wee bit faster than the std 24 volt supply will get you to. 30 is pushing the envelope and may let the smoke out of these chips. I run at 2.5 amps, but you could say I have extreme cooling too. For motor dampers, there are several designs extant. Mine are big fender washers with sheet rubber between them in loose stacks, others have used weighted skate wheels and such effectively too. You can see mine, and I'm sure others here will also give links to their designs, on the back ends of the motors you can see in my mess at http://gene.homelinux.net:85/gene/emc, that bypasses the front page but only shows you filenames, click to see in most browsers. Or you can take off the 'emc' and see me the missus and some smaller web sized pix. Good luck. ;) -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Some one needed the powerstrip, so they pulled the switch plug. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Hi Gene: Thanks for the insight. yes I don't trust switchers. I am a ham radio opt. and so I build power supplies with xformers and the like. I took a look at some of your pictures and was woundering what size your steppers are??? I know one of my problems are small steppers. I was going to buy larger ones but haven't yet. As I said before I want to be sure that the machine goes to the position it is sent to, but I could get a great deal of money spent by starting all over using servos. I also am retired and money is tight for hobby stuff. By the way, your shop looks great... Bill -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
On Monday 01 March 2010, Cathrine Hribar wrote: Nope, never fly. See if superglueing some heat sinks to them might help, and in my case, I have a pair of old psu fans running on about 18 volts to they really sing to you, one in each end of a box with the xylotex board in it, the box just fitting the outside dimensions of the fans, one blowing in one one end of the box, the other sucking out the other end, so I probably have a 20 mph breeze flowing across both sides of the pcb itself. I've had one fan fail in about 5 years, so if you start with decent computer psu pulls that claim to be ball bearing models, and it lasts 10 minutes at the higher voltage, it should last 5-10 years. I used 18 volts basically because that was the only lower tap I had on the motor psu I built from an old Ampex 2 videotape machine's drum motor power supply. Its a boat anchor if it ever fails... Watch the electrolytic caps, the things in alu cans with plastic wrappers but bare tops. If you see even a hint of bulging of the top of one of those, replace them last week if not before. I haven't read any horror stories about those, yet. But I am a retired C.E.T. and have been seeing problems with those ever since switching power supplies, with their light weight and high efficiencies causing a wholesale shift to their use for nearly everything. Switching power supplies however are _not_ good power supplies for this use, they cannot absorb the energy recycling currents that flow in these chopper stabilized drives without either letting the output voltages soar out of spec, or seeing it as an error and doing a protective shutdown, usually in the middle of the most intricate cut of the job. Been there, done that, built the linear, unregulated but huge output capacitance (75,000 uf, it was handy in my junk box) rig I now use in self defense. It hasn't even gotten warm in 5 years of running 4 motors on my mill, sometimes for several days straight. In any event, I don't think I would, even with heat sinks and fans, push those at above 2.0 amps/motor. That limit will only effect, generally speaking, the amount of force available at slow speeds. Only more voltage can get you above something like 20 a minute, and that will probably need dampers on the motors to achieve that. I'm at about 27.5, so I can go a wee bit faster than the std 24 volt supply will get you to. 30 is pushing the envelope and may let the smoke out of these chips. I run at 2.5 amps, but you could say I have extreme cooling too. For motor dampers, there are several designs extant. Mine are big fender washers with sheet rubber between them in loose stacks, others have used weighted skate wheels and such effectively too. You can see mine, and I'm sure others here will also give links to their designs, on the back ends of the motors you can see in my mess at http://gene.homelinux.net:85/gene/emc, that bypasses the front page but only shows you filenames, click to see in most browsers. Or you can take off the 'emc' and see me the missus and some smaller web sized pix. Good luck. ;) Hi Gene: Thanks for the insight. yes I don't trust switchers. I am a ham radio opt. and so I build power supplies with xformers and the like. I took a look at some of your pictures and was woundering what size your steppers are??? The X,Y and C motors are the 225's that Jeff at xylotex sells as part of his kits, and the Z is a 425, also bought as a kit from Jeff. So ATM I have a 3 axis board not in use, might eventually put one channel on the bandsaw for a steady resaw pull, and the other two on a lathe but it will be a lathe big enough to do what I want to do, that 7x12 really is a pan of jello for a frame, which makes it quite hard on carbide chips, which shatter at the first hint of chatter of course. So ATM I have another 3 425's and a 3 axis driver in a box, waiting for both the inspiration, and a sufficient quantity of round tuit's to actually do something with them. If I can cobble up a decent pattern, I might make some of those this summer see if there is any local interest. ;) I know one of my problems are small steppers. I was going to buy larger ones but haven't yet. As I said before I want to be sure that the machine goes to the position it is sent to, but I could get a great deal of money spent by starting all over using servos. I also am retired and money is tight for hobby stuff. By the way, your shop looks great... Only to another hacker like me. ;) Bill --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
By the way, your shop looks great... Only to another hacker like me. ;) Hi Gene: Thanks for the info. I guess I'll do something like that. My Z axis is the one I can't depend on. just looked at your web site.. Boy you must be busy I printed one of your .ngc files, the one for the spindle encoder.. Do you have the rest of the stuff that that setup needs?? LIKE THE HAL and int. file and a drawing of sensor placement? Would like to put that on my cnc spindle. Bill There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) How true! The groundhog is like most other prophets; it delivers its message and then disappears. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
On Monday 01 March 2010, Cathrine Hribar wrote: By the way, your shop looks great... Only to another hacker like me. ;) Hi Gene: Thanks for the info. I guess I'll do something like that. My Z axis is the one I can't depend on. That was basically a total redesign, the OEM method has the screw behind the post, and 5 pounds of downforce will lock the sled to the post with the binding. What you see now can put 155 pounds of downforce on a bathroom scale or a drill bit before that 425 starts cogging.. just looked at your web site.. Boy you must be busy Keeps me outta the bars, most of the time. As I sit in this chair behind a monitor entirely too much, if I don't get up and do something, the missus might not see me till I start smelling up the place. I printed one of your .ngc files, the one for the spindle encoder.. Do you have the rest of the stuff that that setup needs?? LIKE THE HAL and int. file and a drawing of sensor placement? Would like to put that on my cnc spindle. Bill Unforch Bill, that is a work in progress. The disk is installed on the lathe, but the rest of it is still just a gleam in my eyes. Methinks the lathe might get replaced with a bigger, stiffer, more conventional one before I put much more effort into that bowl of jello. In which case I'll probably have to adjust that file to make it bigger. It was quite a trick to get all that inside the clearances of a 7x12's end housing and the photocells will need to be tiny ones and will have to be adjusted very carefully at that scale. Some carefull reading of the ngc code should show where it needs to be scaled up and so on. That basic code I got from the linuxcnc site, and that code makes a much larger wheel than mine does. There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) How true! The last box is being inspected weekly to make sure its in a usable state too. :-\ -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If I have to lay an egg for my country, I'll do it. -- Bob Hope -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:23:48 -0500 Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 28 February 2010, Cathrine Hribar wrote: Hi All: I have a problem with my stepper driver board. The board is made by Stepmaster. Board # SOP-1 ver. 1.2 I need steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, and dirhold. Can't get steppers to be reliable faster than Max. Vol. .3 The first link I found on Google doesn't bode well for making use of the device, it will not stand up to the music seems to be the general consensus of the postings I read on linuxcnc. The Xylotex boards have far better support and are much more convenient to use as they have their own B.O.B. I have 2 myself, abide by the rules and my machine can move 25 ipm with a 27.5 volt supply. They are I believe the same allegro chip used on the xylotex boards, but xylotex puts heat sinks on them and recommends plenty of air flow for full output. And they Just Work(TM). Anyone help? Thanks: Bill --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene Hi Gene: Thanks for the reply yes I guess I should have used the Xylotex board, but now I have to work with what I have within reason. If I do upgrade I will change to servos as I want to be sure that what I ask my cnc to do it will do it!!! I made a index plate for a guy last summer and some of the holes were as much as .020 off! Can't buy that. Bill There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) You're out of memory -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper controller setup
On Sunday 28 February 2010, Cathrine Hribar wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:23:48 -0500 Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 28 February 2010, Cathrine Hribar wrote: Hi All: I have a problem with my stepper driver board. The board is made by Stepmaster. Board # SOP-1 ver. 1.2 I need steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, and dirhold. Can't get steppers to be reliable faster than Max. Vol. .3 The first link I found on Google doesn't bode well for making use of the device, it will not stand up to the music seems to be the general consensus of the postings I read on linuxcnc. The Xylotex boards have far better support and are much more convenient to use as they have their own B.O.B. I have 2 myself, abide by the rules and my machine can move 25 ipm with a 27.5 volt supply. They are I believe the same allegro chip used on the xylotex boards, but xylotex puts heat sinks on them and recommends plenty of air flow for full output. And they Just Work(TM). Anyone help? Thanks: Bill - -- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Hi Gene: Thanks for the reply yes I guess I should have used the Xylotex board, but now I have to work with what I have within reason. If I do upgrade I will change to servos as I want to be sure that what I ask my cnc to do it will do it!!! I made a index plate for a guy last summer and some of the holes were as much as .020 off! Can't buy that. Bill Nope, never fly. See if superglueing some heat sinks to them might help, and in my case, I have a pair of old psu fans running on about 18 volts to they really sing to you, one in each end of a box with the xylotex board in it, the box just fitting the outside dimensions of the fans, one blowing in one one end of the box, the other sucking out the other end, so I probably have a 20 mph breeze flowing across both sides of the pcb itself. I've had one fan fail in about 5 years, so if you start with decent computer psu pulls that claim to be ball bearing models, and it lasts 10 minutes at the higher voltage, it should last 5-10 years. I used 18 volts basically because that was the only lower tap I had on the motor psu I built from an old Ampex 2 videotape machine's drum motor power supply. Its a boat anchor if it ever fails... Watch the electrolytic caps, the things in alu cans with plastic wrappers but bare tops. If you see even a hint of bulging of the top of one of those, replace them last week if not before. I haven't read any horror stories about those, yet. But I am a retired C.E.T. and have been seeing problems with those ever since switching power supplies, with their light weight and high efficiencies causing a wholesale shift to their use for nearly everything. Switching power supplies however are _not_ good power supplies for this use, they cannot absorb the energy recycling currents that flow in these chopper stabilized drives without either letting the output voltages soar out of spec, or seeing it as an error and doing a protective shutdown, usually in the middle of the most intricate cut of the job. Been there, done that, built the linear, unregulated but huge output capacitance (75,000 uf, it was handy in my junk box) rig I now use in self defense. It hasn't even gotten warm in 5 years of running 4 motors on my mill, sometimes for several days straight. In any event, I don't think I would, even with heat sinks and fans, push those at above 2.0 amps/motor. That limit will only effect, generally speaking, the amount of force available at slow speeds. Only more voltage can get you above something like 20 a minute, and that will probably need dampers on the motors to achieve that. I'm at about 27.5, so I can go a wee bit faster than the std 24 volt supply will get you to. 30 is pushing the envelope and may let the smoke out of these chips. I run at 2.5 amps, but you could say I have extreme cooling too. For motor dampers, there are several designs extant. Mine are big fender washers with sheet rubber between them in loose stacks, others have used weighted skate wheels and such effectively too. You can see mine, and I'm sure others here will also give links to their designs, on the back ends of the motors you can see in my mess at http://gene.homelinux.net:85/gene/emc, that bypasses the front page but only shows you filenames, click to see in most browsers. Or you can take off the 'emc' and see me the missus and some smaller web sized pix. Good luck. ;) -- Cheers, Gene There are
