Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space--
Hi John!
A couple of things - it depends how 'clan' is defined; there is plenty of
internecine warfare within clans (see the sagas!) as well as in very
coherent small towns - try being gay in one of them, or a different race.
You say "But if you compare the numbers and the perceptions that Amurikans
have -- people think that foreign aid is a *huge* number, larger than even
military budgets... when in fact it is actually a tiny number. Much better
to imagine we are doing good whilst killing... And altruism in this case,
well, many wide-scaled aid programs are more based in pragmatics ('fix
Ebola over there otherwise it will come here' or literally buying
political cooperation)..."
But this is a red herring; I can cite you any number of cases where people
in the U.S. and for that matter any number of other countries, have given
aid without any such equation. Your "we" is wrong there - who is the "we"
who is giving and who is the "we" who is killing? If I vote against
killing and give money to conservation initiatives in other countries for
example - how is this based on "pragmatics" that something will come here?
People in fact do give, and killers can be kind, and givers can be
violent, but this doesn't play out logically or psychologically.
For example, we give a fair amount of money to various groups without the
stupidity of the ebola equation, I've organized or been part of organized
drives, without any sense that "it will come here" and without any notion
I'm covering up killing for example - you either recognize altruism or
you don't, and if you don't, your small extended family in Iceland is just
as much a part of the problem as people anywhere else. (Btw I was in
Fukuoka for a while years ago, it was a fairly closed-off local city, and
as a foreignor, I was ostracized, yelled at on the street for being
non-Japanese, etc. And I'm from a small town in Pennsylvania, and could
speak of problems there as well. These weren't and maybe still aren't,
atomized societies.)
Yoicks! Who exactly thinks foreign aid is a huge number? No one I know...
Alan
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014, John Hopkins wrote:
--empyre- soft-skinned space--
There's also considerable violence in small societies, in small towns; and
of
this suggests that those social configurations are *not* 'clan' based --
which seems to be the case in our 'mixed-up' society. Internal 'clan'
violence of course happens when there are hierarchic leadership questions,
but those are probably statistically rare as they threaten the viability of a
social unit (internal violence makes the group vulnerable to outside
attack)...
I know when I moved to Iceland, and married into a typical extended family
there -- I was amazed at the family dynamic -- something I'd hardly
experienced in my rather small extended US family. In Iceland, I knew I could
make a phone call to any one of a hundred people and get immediate assistance
for whatever. How strange a concept it was! There sense of family was perhaps
a couple generations 'behind' the US's atomized/nuclear families...
course there are altruistic decisions people make at any scale - otherwise
there
wouldn't be global charities, giving to flood victims in other countries,
and so
But if you compare the numbers and the perceptions that Amurikans have --
people think that foreign aid is a *huge* number, larger than even military
budgets... when in fact it is actually a tiny number. Much better to imagine
we are doing good whilst killing... And altruism in this case, well, many
wide-scaled aid programs are more based in pragmatics ('fix Ebola over there
otherwise it will come here' or literally buying political cooperation)...
And the provision of abstracted currency support for the remote Other, that
seems like very 'thin' empathy somehow... but so many would rather do that
than help a neighbor...
forth. For me, it has to do with picturing the other in relation to the
local, a
kind of negotiated logic...
does this seem grim? maybe it's a cup half empty/half full issue. I know
people do kind things, this is clear. Are we not men? We are Devo...
ciao,
jh
--
++
Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD
grounded on a granite batholith
twitter: @neoscenes
http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
++
___
empyre forum
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http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
==
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Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space--
There's also considerable violence in small societies, in small towns; and of
this suggests that those social configurations are *not* 'clan' based -- which
seems to be the case in our 'mixed-up' society. Internal 'clan' violence of
course happens when there are hierarchic leadership questions, but those are
probably statistically rare as they threaten the viability of a social unit
(internal violence makes the group vulnerable to outside attack)...
I know when I moved to Iceland, and married into a typical extended family there
-- I was amazed at the family dynamic -- something I'd hardly experienced in my
rather small extended US family. In Iceland, I knew I could make a phone call to
any one of a hundred people and get immediate assistance for whatever. How
strange a concept it was! There sense of family was perhaps a couple generations
'behind' the US's atomized/nuclear families...
course there are altruistic decisions people make at any scale - otherwise there
wouldn't be global charities, giving to flood victims in other countries, and so
But if you compare the numbers and the perceptions that Amurikans have -- people
think that foreign aid is a *huge* number, larger than even military budgets...
when in fact it is actually a tiny number. Much better to imagine we are doing
good whilst killing... And altruism in this case, well, many wide-scaled aid
programs are more based in pragmatics ('fix Ebola over there otherwise it will
come here' or literally buying political cooperation)... And the provision of
abstracted currency support for the remote Other, that seems like very 'thin'
empathy somehow... but so many would rather do that than help a neighbor...
forth. For me, it has to do with picturing the other in relation to the local, a
kind of negotiated logic...
does this seem grim? maybe it's a cup half empty/half full issue. I know people
do kind things, this is clear. Are we not men? We are Devo...
ciao,
jh
--
++
Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD
grounded on a granite batholith
twitter: @neoscenes
http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
++
___
empyre forum
empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Coot mothers will torture their weaker young, literally torture, until the young coot dies of exhaustion, anomie, etc. The videos are disturbing. And there's bullying, which is definitely a form of torture, among other species - excuse the long quote - When bullying is considered across animals, there is ample evidence that many other animals, including other primates, engage in bullying-like behaviors. Rats and mice are commonly used as models for social stress during different life phases, including adolescence. Studies on these common laboratory rodents indicate that social stress, experienced when one individual repeatedly attacks another or takes resources from them, has immediate and lasting impacts (Kinsey et al, 2007; Vidal et al, 2011). Rats who suffered from bullying-like behaviors were less likely to drink water or consume other resources (Vidal et al, 2011). Mice that suffered repeated social defeats were more anxious and experienced changes in brain chemistry (Kinsey et al, 2007). Bullying-like behaviors extend beyond rodents, and labs, appearing in many species, including other primates. Bullying-like behaviors are found in every major group of primates, and can sometimes be severe. Among baboons, one of the best-known, non-human primates in the world, bullying-like behaviors are common. Baboons are common throughout sub-Saharan Africa and many species live in female-centered societies that are held together by matrilineal bonds that span multiple generations. Groups of related females work together to compete over resources and in doing so regularly gang up on females from other matrilines (Altmann, 1980). Female baboons have large canines (though nowhere near as large as their male counterparts) and their fights can be intense and, occasionally, dangerous. Females who regularly lose fights and are low ranking are more stressed and have lower reproductive success than their higher-ranking group-mates (Sapolsky, 1987). While female baboons are not always bully-like toward one another, they frequently use intimidation and aggression to modify the behaviors of others and to get resources from them (Seyfarth, 1976). Bullying-like behaviors are not restricted to female primates. Chimpanzees live in communities with many males and females and males live in the groups their born into their entire lives. Males also form dominance relationships with each other based on physical power and friendships, which they use in competition over mates. Male chimpanzees regularly intimidate each other with bluffs, displays, charges and aggression, which can range from making another male move from a resting spot to physical violence. One of the areas I focus on in my research is the development of behavior in male chimpanzees, paying particular attention to adolescence. Adolescence is a time of great change and uncertainty for male chimpanzees, when they leave their mothers and enter into the adult male social world. When they do that they enter a world of constant posturing and networking that threatens to erupt into violence at any moment. Much like their human cousins, adolescent male chimpanzees begin at the bottom of the male dominance hierarchy (Goodall, 1986) and have to demonstrate their value as a friend and ally, while growing and putting on muscle mass in order to move up the hierarchy. Because adolescent males are smaller, weaker, less experienced and have to challenge other males in order to become competitive, they make attractive targets for older males, and older adolescents and adults regularly attack them (Sherrow, 2008). In short, adolescent males are almost continually bullied as they attempt to join the male social world. In most cases the bullying-like behaviors experienced by male chimpanzees are temporary and relatively harmless. The most common form of intimidation involves a dominant male puffing himself up, with all of his hair standing on end, and walking toward or by another male. This is usually enough to compel the subordinate, or lower ranking, male to pant grunt (a short uhh, uhh, uhh vocalization which is repeated several times and serves to recognize the dominance of another chimpanzee), don a fear grimace and put their hand out in a palm up begging gesture. However, if two males are close in rank or a male fails to adhere to social norms within the community, bullying-like behaviors can become more intense and, on occasion, dangerous. One of the reasons bullying-like behaviors can become so dangerous among male chimpanzees is that they regularly gang up on each other during aggressive interactions in what are called coalitions. On three different occasions, researchers at three different field sites, observed coalitions of adult male chimpanzees attack and kill a male from their group, apparently because they did not adhere to the social norms
Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- There's also considerable violence in small societies, in small towns; and of course there are altruistic decisions people make at any scale - otherwise there wouldn't be global charities, giving to flood victims in other countries, and so forth. For me, it has to do with picturing the other in relation to the local, a kind of negotiated logic... Thanks!, Alan On Fri, 14 Nov 2014, John Hopkins wrote: The balance between the violence and empathy probably have a break point at the number 150 -- the 'average' maximum number of relations that the human brain is evolved to be mindful of -- the clan-based society... Empathy can extend no further than that (perhaps), except in extraordinary circumstances (Jesus, Buddha, etc)... The rest of those outside the 150 are simply challengers of my use of resources that I employ to optimize the reproducibility of my clan (unless there is an attractive gene-pool-mixing opportunity 'out there'). Those may have to be taken by force. What genetic evidence is there of altruism that extends beyond clan? I know there has been some research in that regard, but my phenomenological observations suggest that humans are, on average and in aggregate, unable to make altruistic decisions on a wide scale (global warming seems to be one example)... Decisions can be made on a smaller scale when conditions pressure such, but otherwise, resource consumption and nest-soiling tendencies are not immediately impinging on quality of life, so, who cares? and so on... jh -- ++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD grounded on a granite batholith twitter: @neoscenes http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu == email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ current text http://www.alansondheim.org/sw.txt == ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Dear Alan, it’s always problematic to argue that there is a difference between human beings and other species. The longer one looks at it the smaller the difference become. But I think the use of violence is in fact quite different. It is true that violence between animals often has a kind of theatrical or performative element. What decides a fight is not always being strong: to intimidate the rival is crucial. But I doubt that torture can be found between animals: the object of torture is torture, George Orwell wrote this in his Nineteen Eight-Four. The object of torture is not to intimidate the other but to traumatize the victim, to traumatize the victim’s psyche. And the problem seems to be that this is taking place on the basis of a kind of split: a torturer often develops quite an intense relation to the victim and a quite complex knowledge of his psyche. Is this empathy? Probably yes. Empathy is no guaranty against cruelty. It never was. Shakespeare made it already very clear. From Titus Andronicus till Othello: who is more conscious about the singular psyche of the other thanShakespeare’s cruel heroes? Reinhold > Am 14.11.2014 um 20:54 schrieb Alan Sondheim : > > --empyre- soft-skinned space-- > > > I read with great interest, Reinhold's post; he states "All living being is > open, in constant exchange with the world, with persons, other species and > things around, with what is his Umwelt or his living-world. A newborn is in > an extremely intense exchange with his environment. Just read what Daniel > Stern 1985 wrote in his ?The Interpersonal World of the Infant? about the > vitality affects: Long before there is any experience of an ?I?, there is an > intense communication of forms of feeling, of affects taking place. Or to say > it in a more philosophical way: The ?I? always comes late, the encounter with > the other always already has taken place before the ?I? notices it." > > I then read the news: > > US led strikes hit Islamic State, al-Qaida-linked group in Syria Jerusalem > Post - 57 minutes ago WASHINGTON - US-led air strikes hit 10 units of Islamic > State fighters in Syria in recent days, as well as militants with the > al-Qaida-linked Khorasan Group, US Central Command said in a statement on > Friday. Islamic State sets sights on Saudi Arabia BBC News - 20 minutes ago > In a 17-minute audio message, purportedly from its elusive leader Abu Bakr > al-Baghdadi, the group sets its sights firmly on Saudi Arabia, birthplace of > Islam and the world's largest oil producer and exporter. Militants seize > hometown of kidnapped schoolgirls Businessweek - 1 hour ago MAIDUGURI, > Nigeria (AP) - Islamic extremists in Nigeria have seized Chibok, forcing > thousands of people to flee the town where insurgents kidnapped nearly 300 > schoolgirls in April, a local official said Friday. Student Found Unconscious > at WVU Fraternity Dies ABC News - 19 minutes ago A West Virginia University > student found unconscious and not breathing at a fraternity house died > Friday, a day after the school ordered a halt to all activities at > fraternities and sororities, officials said. Capital Wired Male Infanticide > -- Male Mammals Kill Rival Babies To Endure Own Offspring Capital Wired - 18 > minutes ago When it comes to the animal kingdom, it's the survival of the > fittest and his offspring. To endure their own offspring, some mammals kills > the babies of the rivals. Bullying Increases Mating Prospects For Male > Chimpanzees [STUDY] ValueWalk - 45 minutes ago A 17-year study of chimpanzees > in Tanzania reports that bullying may be of benefit to males of the group. > More specifically, males that exhibited long-term aggressive behavior towards > females, up to and including physical assaults, significantly increased. > > - And I wonder, why isn't sociobiology on the table here? It seems to me that > violence is ingrained in being-human; although there are exceptions, most of > human history seems bathed in blood. For me, part of the question does > involve empathy - how can we so identify with the other, that the torture > stops? And almost everything I've read, from Amery through Scarry through the > Nuremberg War trial transcripts, presents against this possibility, that in > fact torture has its own perverse logic, its own closure. I realize that > sociobiology is considered problematic; on the other hand, I don't know how > other-species evidence can be overlooked (even sea anenomes have (for us, > slow-motion) wars). Comments appreciated here. > > Thanks greatly, Alan > ___ > empyre forum > empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au > http://empyre.library.cornell.edu ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
Re: [-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hi Alan -- - And I wonder, why isn't sociobiology on the table here? It seems to me that violence is ingrained in being-human; although there are exceptions, most of human history seems bathed in blood. For me, part of the question does involve empathy - how can we so identify with the other, that the torture stops? And The balance between the violence and empathy probably have a break point at the number 150 -- the 'average' maximum number of relations that the human brain is evolved to be mindful of -- the clan-based society... Empathy can extend no further than that (perhaps), except in extraordinary circumstances (Jesus, Buddha, etc)... The rest of those outside the 150 are simply challengers of my use of resources that I employ to optimize the reproducibility of my clan (unless there is an attractive gene-pool-mixing opportunity 'out there'). Those may have to be taken by force. What genetic evidence is there of altruism that extends beyond clan? I know there has been some research in that regard, but my phenomenological observations suggest that humans are, on average and in aggregate, unable to make altruistic decisions on a wide scale (global warming seems to be one example)... Decisions can be made on a smaller scale when conditions pressure such, but otherwise, resource consumption and nest-soiling tendencies are not immediately impinging on quality of life, so, who cares? and so on... jh -- ++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD grounded on a granite batholith twitter: @neoscenes http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
[-empyre-] ethology?
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- I read with great interest, Reinhold's post; he states "All living being is open, in constant exchange with the world, with persons, other species and things around, with what is his Umwelt or his living-world. A newborn is in an extremely intense exchange with his environment. Just read what Daniel Stern 1985 wrote in his ?The Interpersonal World of the Infant? about the vitality affects: Long before there is any experience of an ?I?, there is an intense communication of forms of feeling, of affects taking place. Or to say it in a more philosophical way: The ?I? always comes late, the encounter with the other always already has taken place before the ?I? notices it." I then read the news: US led strikes hit Islamic State, al-Qaida-linked group in Syria Jerusalem Post - 57 minutes ago WASHINGTON - US-led air strikes hit 10 units of Islamic State fighters in Syria in recent days, as well as militants with the al-Qaida-linked Khorasan Group, US Central Command said in a statement on Friday. Islamic State sets sights on Saudi Arabia BBC News - 20 minutes ago In a 17-minute audio message, purportedly from its elusive leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the group sets its sights firmly on Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam and the world's largest oil producer and exporter. Militants seize hometown of kidnapped schoolgirls Businessweek - 1 hour ago MAIDUGURI, Nigeria (AP) - Islamic extremists in Nigeria have seized Chibok, forcing thousands of people to flee the town where insurgents kidnapped nearly 300 schoolgirls in April, a local official said Friday. Student Found Unconscious at WVU Fraternity Dies ABC News - 19 minutes ago A West Virginia University student found unconscious and not breathing at a fraternity house died Friday, a day after the school ordered a halt to all activities at fraternities and sororities, officials said. Capital Wired Male Infanticide -- Male Mammals Kill Rival Babies To Endure Own Offspring Capital Wired - 18 minutes ago When it comes to the animal kingdom, it's the survival of the fittest and his offspring. To endure their own offspring, some mammals kills the babies of the rivals. Bullying Increases Mating Prospects For Male Chimpanzees [STUDY] ValueWalk - 45 minutes ago A 17-year study of chimpanzees in Tanzania reports that bullying may be of benefit to males of the group. More specifically, males that exhibited long-term aggressive behavior towards females, up to and including physical assaults, significantly increased. - And I wonder, why isn't sociobiology on the table here? It seems to me that violence is ingrained in being-human; although there are exceptions, most of human history seems bathed in blood. For me, part of the question does involve empathy - how can we so identify with the other, that the torture stops? And almost everything I've read, from Amery through Scarry through the Nuremberg War trial transcripts, presents against this possibility, that in fact torture has its own perverse logic, its own closure. I realize that sociobiology is considered problematic; on the other hand, I don't know how other-species evidence can be overlooked (even sea anenomes have (for us, slow-motion) wars). Comments appreciated here. Thanks greatly, Alan ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
[-empyre-] Empathy, film, re-enactment
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hallo, sorry for being very occupied during the week and responding therefore with delay: Empathy: I often have the impression that discussions about empathy are running in the wrong direction. All living being is open, in constant exchange with the world, with persons, other species and things around, with what is his Umwelt or his living-world. A newborn is in an extremely intense exchange with his environment. Just read what Daniel Stern 1985 wrote in his „The Interpersonal World of the Infant“ about the vitality affects: Long before there is any experience of an „I“, there is an intense communication of forms of feeling, of affects taking place. Or to say it in a more philosophical way: The „I“ always comes late, the encounter with the other always already has taken place before the „I“ notices it. This feeling of being addressed by the other, of being affected therefore is never free of a certain uncanniness. These points of encounter with the other are always already present, inside of me, passive synthesizes. The „I“ that comes late - in the history of the individual development as well as in every daily encounter - reacts to this, tolerating it, loving it, rejecting it. Violence, I assume, has always to do with this rejection. It tries to denial the presence of the other. There are probably two dynamics that can be been interwoven but can determine the process in a different manner: there can be a kind of violence that is to be understand as a way to deny the vague presence of the other. This is a violence that cannot be „explained“, it tries to answer to a diffuse feeling of an uncanny presence of something unknown. And there is the violence that can be understood with the psychoanalytic concept of identification and projection. This violence has a kind of inner representation of something that one tries to deny. In racisms the second form often is dominant. In the chapter on anti-semitism in their „Dialectics of Enlightenment“ Horkheimer/Adorno make clear that often hatred is accompanied by a mimetic play to imitate the other. (Taussig quotes this in his „Mimesis and Alterity“). Empathy then is giving room for the other inside me, yes, but for the other who already has touched me. Loss of empathy on the other hand is a dissociative process. I still believe that art has the power to weaken dissociative processes - not by confronting me with what I already have seen and want to denial. If there is such a power it comes from shifting the modes of perception, shifting it’s automatism. What we consciously know about our constant exchange with our environment is just a small part of what is this multifold relationship. It is constructed by automatisms and dissociations, changing in time and always determined by media: the little toy the infant plays with and is played by it (Freud’s grandson playing fort-da), the theatre, the film, this space we are in talking right now. Film turns the men’s alienation to its environment productive, that’s the key thought of Walter Benjamin’s „The Work of Art“. Pier Marton already mentioned Joshua Oppenheimer’s film „The Act of Killing“. Two months ago a published a book (in German) about „Scenes of violence. Film and Torture from Rossellini to Bigelow“. Roberto Rossellini’s „Roma città aperta“ is the first film, Oppenheimer „The Act of Killing“ is the last film I’m talking about. Perhaps both films mark a period of filmmaking. Rossellini’s film was key to the emergence of Italian Neorealism and to its grounding question: Is film able to help to reconstruct social and empathetic relationships. And the key scene to put this question was the 16 minutes long torture scene near the end of the film. Rossellini is completely conscious about torture being an act that always takes place before a third part. He offers these images of violence to the spectator, the torturers, the bystanders, the ignorant: in the room or in the threshold that is the threshold to the torture chamber as well as the threshold of the cinema. There is a lot of hope in this film but Rossellini also shows how easy it is to denial what one has seen. And Oppenheimer’s piece confronts us with exactly the fact that film can be a means that helps to denial what one does and that even offers methods to kill. Rossellini wrote in the 70ties about his fear that cinema „est transformé en université du vol et de l’assassinat“. For Anwar Kongo, Herman Koto and others that formed a death squad during the massacres in Indonesia in 1965/66 - when between 500 000 Thousand and 2 Million people were killed after the General Suharto’s putsch (which was supported by the USA and other Western States): film was their university. And 40 years later they try to make a family film out of it. Oppenheimer worked for (I think) eight years with them, a long time; but this documentary shows that step by step
[-empyre-] Brotherhoods research
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- http://news.sciencemag.org/social-sciences/2014/11/war-really-does-foster-band-brothers?utm_campaign=email-news-latest&utm_source=eloqua Apologies in advance for posting the URL, but, right or wrong, it seems relevant to the discussion. - Alan ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
[-empyre-] performance, street
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- (Thanks, thinking about what Yoko wrote) I want to bring up a current issue here, in the U.S., our President, and the racism that seems to follow him and ingrain itself deeper in this country on a daily basis. I remember Boehner saying that if Obama tried to push immigration reform, he'd "get burned" - and no one would use an expression like that if Obama were white. This kind of cant-talk, hidden talk, this performance of racism, this _racism,_ occurs daily here; you can hear it on talk radio, on the shortwave, in the streets. When we were in Halifax, a friend of ours told us about a tour bus driver, a friend of his, who drove cruise ship passengers around Halifax. They were almost all white and from the U.S. He was asked what the passengers talked about, and he said it was about "the n- in the White House." I hear stuff like this and you know it goes on across the U.S., Ferguson being a great example of performance-America so to speak. I cannot personally imagine what it's like growing up Black here, what's it's like being Latino, being "illegal" (the real illegals were the whites who came here and seized Native Amerian lands, as Roger Williams was fond of pointing out), being anything other than a white Christian male - and these last dominate the culture, no matter how many tokens are found everywhere. Performance? Look at the performance of erecting racial barriers, from the US/Mexican wall to the redrawing of voting districts, to increasing requirements for voting in order to exclude anyone who's not white. These are performances, and the hatred is palpable. The U.S. is now statistically the 2nd most religious country in the world, after Saudi Arabia (of course this depends on what parameters are used), has the greatest prison population in the world (2.3 million as of last count, 25% of the world's prison population in general), etc. etc. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm old enough to have participated in demonstrations in the 60s, and feeling, finally, that the country was turning around to a more just and open society; now, while there are some important victories (extending marriage rights for example), we seem to be sliding backwards. Our prisons are privatized for example, and there was an article a couple of years ago in Mother Jones about the better treatment in Iranian prisons than here. We perform. We perform _white_ as a country. We have the greatest disparity between rich and poor in the world. We perform Occupy, and I think that, basically, all that leftists have left is that - the ability to perform on the other side, to make very little difference at all. Obama (whom I love) is now going for that immigration reform, and he will be, he will be burned - "RANGOON, Burma - President Obama on Friday refused to change his plans to overhaul the immigration system through executive action even if the move sets up a showdown with newly empowered congressional Republicans who have vowed to fight him." yes yes yes, and the next things to tackle are climate change (there isn't any, it's not our fault), evolution (created as a conspiracy to DOUBT THE WORD OF GOD), etc. etc. Apologies for this rant, which may have no place here, I'm frightened of this country; our greatest performance is the transformation of social change into non-performance, is adopting coded language, is adapting that language to gather strength, to gather white male Christian strength (which is increasingly a minority position in the U.S. but with corporations now defined as persons, who cares?), to purify on a slow burner what ISIS is doing on a hot. (Obviously the differences are enormous, but here we are now, making fun of the left and Democrats, taking apart everything some of us once stood for, that everything which made a difference.) - Alan ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
Re: [-empyre-] From a distance
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- dear all it's good to see this viviv conversation evolve, and thanks to all guests and participants so far this week; in a way, I had imagined a small shift towards performance, when we invited Yoko and Mine, but also the film and design experiences and practices of some of our guests (Pier, Jon, Reinhold), continuing from week 1, interested us, and we also anticipated the interventions from Andreas and his work on spatial justice. I want to reflect more on what Mine suggested about empathy and action, and what this means in regard to proximity/distance, as Yoko elaborated. Apologies for being in rehearsal for two days; we arrived in Dresden and are working on the ghost & holostage, and i am in a very dark room today, observing movement on my left, which disappears on my right, as particles that dematerialize a whole being. I could send photos from rehearsal this minute, but (Jon!) the graphe is not liked by the listserver, and when i send image, the text disappears. regards Johannes Birringer ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
[-empyre-] From a distance
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello, I am sorry about my little confusion. I try to write what I wanted to say again. I agree that an absolute annihilation (a natural extinction as well) is possible biologically. However, the histories of (especially artificial) annihilations will be left and archived so that the records of the victims (as much as the victimisers’s) should be always left, archived and revealed. Regarding this society full of tele-presence and mediated selves, it may be difficult to eliminate those records of people's existence unless the on-going system of media get totally collapsed or taken over by a dictator or one exclusive group of people. What I consider here is if ISIS claims the Islamic State based on a religion, they may want to eliminate any other thoughts, arts, histories and accompanying archives as well as the corporeal bodies. I wonder WHERE they want to establish their 'state', on TANGIBLES (a physical land, the corpses, slaves, weapons and the other tangible properties?) or INTANGIBLES (terror, media, religion, political thought, etc.?). What will the modern book burning be like? As for power, powerless and power balance, thanks to Mine, EMPATHY can be an interesting function of humans to look closely in order to think about the relationships of audience, performers/objects and their distance in between. It can be also applied to the relationships of victims, victimisers, observers of the violence and their physical/mental distances in between. Best, Yoko ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
[-empyre-] Greetings
--empyre- soft-skinned space--Hello All. I just wanted to say I’m really glad I joinedthis listserv. Every time I read the posts I come away with ideas that newly addresscurrent societal ills—things that have to be dealt with simply to improve ourhistorical record. This is my first de-lurk, so I should probably say that myown record bases itself or tries to on literary criticism and theory. I have apersonal poetry blog which usually comes up in web searches on my name. Recentviews here on silence and performance, on terrorism in so many differentguises, on warfare, have brought to mind Engels & Marx’s thoughts onpermanent revolution. You can take revolution to mean process, since any changeis eventually going to get re-changed so to speak. That in a nutshell is muchof what I like about the recent discussions I’ve read. One thing I didn’t agreewith, though I agree with what Murat was saying about it, is terrorism as a1970s coinage. I mean, I agree that the word can be considered a recent meme ifmeme is the word here. But the word itself goes back to 1795 in English.Obviously the action itself comes into many languages much earlier….. Thisseemed worth bringing up. But mostly, I wanted to say thanks to all for thegreat ideas. Looking forward to more! Salud, William ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
Re: [-empyre-] From a distance
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Yes, Yoko, I agree with you. We have a very basic understanding of otherness that allows us to create boundaries outside our skin. The very idea of a self in my view may be defective and creating wars. If we are “everything/everybody” then we may care about that immensity, that complexity. I will try to address some of that in an upcoming post on catharsis. Indeed too Yoko, I agree that there is power within the body too. I am trying to address the powerlessness of our commentaries, even our “anti-war” work. Even if it is not just spectatorship, we consume the news and are primarily recipients of it. Recognizing our powerlessness, while a threatening concept, may need to be acknowledged. Something useful may happen. Action, agit-prop, outrage have their place, and I will try to speak of them in my upcoming post on catharsis. Thank you, Pier > On Nov 13, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Yoko Ishiguro > wrote: > > Additionally, I believe that even if you try to 'annihilate' THE OTHERS, it > should not be possible in a genuine sense since THE OTHERS you want to > annihilate have tons of ANOTHER OTHERS that THE OTHERS have left the traces, > memories, effects, DNAs and viruses on. > > What are THE OTHERS to WHOM then? Is not it mere a systematic strategy of a > bunch of people who make up an aesthetic in order to encourage the people > 'inside'? Why do humans have to have the notion of THE OTHERS -is it actually > our innate behaviour to try to eliminate THE OTHERS? Should our societies and > our recognitions be necessarily consisted of the dualities/polarities of > Figures and Ground (Gestalt) = Inside and Outside = Us and The Others...? If > babies should develop/learn by acknowledging how to define themselves and THE > OTHERS a prior as their nature, what kind of methodology is affective to > create a different point of view to the adults? This must be the point that > many art practitioners can speak something loudly. > On Nov 13, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Yoko Ishiguro > wrote: > >> Johannes and Pier, > > Powerless? Is it the write word really...? > > Doesn't power exist anywhere (in our body, cells, societies, arts and > galaxies)? > 'War against war' does not make any good since the war against war is still a > war. So what is the 'ethically CORRECT' attitude for art practitioners? Maybe > there is no such a thing. As well as the examples you mentioned so far on > this mailing list, the Salt March of Gandhi, for example, could be a good > example of a slow/soft/'powerless' performance against an authority/power but > what else approaches can we think of -that was the starting point of my > moving/performance/installation 'Fuji-copo 102, Higashi-ogu, Arakawa-ku, > Tokyo' in 2011? > > > We might want to talk about POWER itself a bit, from the different points of > views other than theologies and politics, not necessarily artistically but, > for example, socially, physically, kinetically, psychologically, > linguistically, or as Alan suggested, logically and mathematically. > > How would our bodies be if we became 'powerless' while we are 'against' any > kinds of forces such as gravity? How can we think about the power balances of > our right hand and left hand? How can we live without any power supplies for > our rest of our lives? My e-mail signature this month of November (during my direct involvement with -empyre) will have a growing list of works that I found to be powerful - but I do question what “power” means. "Chechen Lullaby" - Directed by Nino Kirtadze —> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEmqHZAn8lQ (also on my website) “Is Anyone Taking Any Notice?” by Don McCullin —> http://piermarton.info/don-mccullin/ "War Against War/Krieg dem Kriege/Guerre à la Guerre! War against War! Oorlog aan den Oorlog" by Ernst Friedrich (recent intro by Doug Kellner) - Various editions. Last one published in Sept. 2014 (available online). "At the Mind’s Limit" by Jean Améry “Shoah” - Directed by Claude Lanzmann And this quote: “. . . only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul’s habitation be safely built.” - Bertrand Russell, 1923 === PM_uoʇɹɐɯ_ɹǝıd —> http://piermarton.info School Of No Media —> http://schoolofnomedia.com/ About —> http://about.me/piermarton BrainBleed—> http://brainbleed.wordpress.com/ _ One of the signs of passing youth is the birth of a sense of fellowship with other human beings as we take our place among them. Virginia Woolf The essence of normalcy is the refusal of reality. Ernst Becker When something seems "the most obvious thing in the world," it means that any attempt to understand the world has been given up. Bertolt Brecht An idea becomes false the moment one becomes satisfied by it. Alain There are no dangerous thoughts; thinking itself is dangerous. Hannah Arendt When around you, you hear the word "Jew" pro
Re: [-empyre-] From a distance
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- (Miscommunications) _ "War Against War" is a book written around 1924 which has nothing to do with the concept of War on Terror. He could have used the words “Let’s Counter War” - he created the Anti-Krieg museum (Anti-War museum) which unlike War Museums did not celebrate war. That museum was closed by the nazis but has reopened today in Berlin. We could pick at that title “anti-something” and wonder whether anti does not reinforce what it opposes - a valid point in an abstract discussion, but all it is in my view is a valiant effort to show both the indoctrination of going to war and the actual face of war (literally the many faces of the survivors wounded by shrapnel). Similarly, I made a mistake in assuming that Johannes was speaking of a particular recent German film called Waffenstillstand. I now believe he was bringing up the word ceasefire in German to counter War (against War). Am I correct with this other misunderstanding? Thank you. Pier > On Nov 13, 2014, at 5:00 AM, Yoko Ishiguro > wrote: > > 'War against war' does not make any good since the war against war is still a > war. > On Nov 13, 2014, at 3:16 AM, Johannes Birringer > wrote: > > Hallo Pier > thank you for your response, and I can imagine the quiet place you are > speaking of. But I was not writing of film in that sentence, i was suggesting > that I reject the idea of war against war, war against terror, > and prefer truce, negotiation. and I only use the german word because of the > "stillstand" as i was still thinking of Yoko's performance. > On Nov 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, PierMartonGmail wrote: > > Johannes, I only just got to watch a German trailer of Waffenstillstand and I > assume when you say “prefer” that film, I assume you are not comparing them. > I don’t see how they can be compared. I come from a place where Robert Bresson is one of the best filmmakers, so it is a very quiet place - hence that Gueules Cassées old film - without its new overpowering track - fills me up through its vacuum. > > >> On Nov 12, 2014, at 3:24 PM, Johannes Birringer >> wrote: >> >> But can we also address performance, and film, and alternate image practices >> (Pier, I watched and listended to "Gueules cassées - Men with broken faces >> (1918)", several times)? What a calm, quiet indictment >> of war, and homage to the theatre of prosthetics. There is of course no >> solution to war against war. I would prefer Wafffenstillstand. ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
