Re: [E-devel] Blend2D - a gfx framework with dynamic pipelines support

[Carsten Haitzler]

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 22:50:21 -0300 Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira
 said:

> 2017-12-03 10:19 GMT-03:00 Carsten Haitzler :
> 
> > also i dislike the idea of a jit. i would prefer something like
> > "pre-compile
> > all permutations into special case functions then runtime call the
> > right/matching one".
> >
> 
> I'm not familiar implementing gfx engines, but with my (small) background
> on compilers and the giant notes page[1], I assume there are optimizations
> that can't just be implemented otherwise.
> 
> The API is like:
> 
> ctx.draw_something1();
> ctx.draw_something2();
> ctx.draw_something3();
> ctx.end(); //< here the pipeline is compiled

generally (at least for us) there is very little to be gained optimizing the
"between something1/2/3". jits are good for this when you have realy small
operations like cpu commands (a = b + 1 for example) and having a continuation
of this where the same data stays in the same register etc. is a good idea and
going to yield good speedups.

for our graphics needs we generally do large batch operations like "do
operation X with param a=x, b=y, c=z from rectangle X to rectangle Y" and X and
Y rectangles are large regions of pixels (100's, 1000's or millions of them).
trying to optimize for tiny operations on single pixels is a long tail of work
that on average is going to yield very little in real life.

this leads to the ability to pre-compile these operations. most of the time for
params like a=0 you can special case 0, and 255 (or 1.0) and skip some muls or
turn the op into a NOP entirely depending on what you are doing, but for all
other values the generic math has to be done and you can do it with regular cpu
(sometimes with some tricks up your sleeve to do simd-like ops with a regular
cpu op as long as you don't need saturation math), or do some assembly version
to do it.

> In this API, the gfx engine can take info on cross-function information. If
> draw_something3 completely hides draw_something2, one call can be
> completely removed. It's actually boring, because you have to recompile the
> whole pipeline every value changed, but the plans to support shaders will
> change the situation[2][3].
> 
> There are drawbacks too. Evas already do interesting things and I just
> don't know if this blend2d would actually be helpful. Evas is pretty damn
> fast. And blend2d is whole CPU side, no GPU (but I still think it's
> interesting because Bézier curves).

sure. in some ways a jit is good. but pre-compiling is more generic and
portable. but in the end the lack of architecture support for major
architectures we support kind of puts it on the veto list. :( if it just
generated some c src for all permutations and then we compiled it in... we'd at
least have a portable one (without specialized assembly for mmx/sse, neon
etc.). but it doesn't do this. :(. it does do mmx/sse etc. in the jit .. but
only for intel and that is a problem.

yes - they make good points about alignment cleanups for simd asm ops due to
alignment needed and this expands library size. that is true. but it's not THAT
onerous. they also make a good point of eliminating tmp buffers. we actually
rarely use tmp buffers ourselves and have our operations already pre-coded, but
we could do better. i was mulling doing a new sw renderer with tiles so yes -
we'd have "temp buffers" but they'd all fit well inside l1 cache and that would
be a big win when blending/operating over the same region multiple times as the
destination at least will stay in cache for fast read-modify-write performance
for blends. to do all of this i was mulling making a code generator to generate
all the operations and functions from templates and so on... :) i have for a
long time been mulling the idea of "texture compression" (s3tc, etc1/2
etc.style) even for software. allow more interesting pixel formats that reduce
memory bandwidth needs significantly with constant storage cost. a sw engine
can even be super smart and switch storage format tile by tile depending on
what works best for that tile. often regions of an image are "empty" and thus
there is no need to even store any pixels for it - just a flag of "this is
transparent" or "this is a single ARGB color" and then when rendering these
regions can optimize their src fetches significantly... and save memory to boot.

> Oh, and thanks for replying to my email. It was just a different point of
> view, just as I wanted to have.
> 
> [1] https://blend2d.com/notes.html
> [2] https://blend2d.com/roadmap.html

yes. they say they want to support arm. but still there's ppc, mips, ... and
more... :) there is no way i'd want to maintain 2 rendering engine paths in the
long run and short term should be very short. i'd want a lot more architectures
already done and finished and supported before even considering...

> [3] https://gist.github.com/vinipsmaker/08349a74566df4c4a9bf82624c13a33b
> 
> -- 
> Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira
> 

Re: [E-devel] Rust bindings

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

2017-12-05 23:54 GMT-03:00 Cedric Bail :

> Care to share the link to that repo you found ?
>

https://github.com/arlowhite/rust-efl

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Re: [E-devel] [support.osuosl.org #29680] enlightenment5.osuosl.oob fan failure

[Cedric Bail via RT]

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [support.osuosl.org #29680] enlightenment5.osuosl.oob fan failure
> Local Time: December 4, 2017 4:18 PM
> UTC Time: December 5, 2017 12:18 AM
> From: supp...@osuosl.org
> To: codyss...@osuosl.org, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net, ras...@rasterman.com
> ced...@efl.so, enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, syst...@osuosl.org, 
> rootmail-stude...@osuosl.org
>
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 04:09:09PM -0800, Jonathan Frederick via RT wrote:
>
>> On Mon Dec 04 14:57:41 2017, bertr...@jacquin.bzh wrote:
>>
>>> According to lm_sensors, all is fine:
>>> nct7904-i2c-0-2e
>>> Adapter: SMBus I801 adapter at 1180
>>> in1: +1.04 V
>>> in2: +0.43 V
>>> in3: +1.50 V
>>> in4: +0.51 V
>>> in5: +1.27 V
>>> in6: +1.26 V
>>> in7: +1.83 V
>>> in8: +1.46 V
>>> in9: +0.94 V
>>> in10: +0.82 V
>>> in11: +1.50 V
>>> in12: +2.01 V
>>> in13: +1.50 V
>>> in14: +2.01 V
>>> in15: +3.37 V
>>> in16: +3.22 V
>>> in20: +3.32 V
>>> fan1: 8035 RPM
>>> fan2: 7714 RPM
>>> fan3: 8333 RPM
>>> fan4: 0 RPM
>>> fan5: 7848 RPM
>>> fan6: 8132 RPM
>>> fan7: 0 RPM
>>> fan8: 0 RPM
>>> temp1: +36.9 C
>>> temp2: +43.5 C
>>> temp3: +51.8 C
>>> coretemp-isa-
>>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>>> Physical id 0: +35.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 0: +32.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 1: +32.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 2: +35.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 3: +30.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> coretemp-isa-0001
>>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>>> Physical id 1: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 0: +36.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 1: +34.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 2: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 3: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> I'm not really sure if I should trust lm_sensors or the buzz.
>>
>> As of right now the light and buzzer are still going off, maybe the 
>> temperature
>> is fine but one of the fans have failed, triggering the buzz.
>> It's constantly on for 10 seconds at a time, then off for a while longer
>>
>> Looking at the server health from the BMC interface, no alarm is present
>> for far or temp, but it looks like FAN4 is reported as not present,
>> which is strange. Another alarm is present for Chassis Intrusion,
>> unfortunately, there is no option to disable this.
>>
>> Cedric, can we order a set of new fan to replace the existing ? I won't
>> be surprised they have been damaged with time.

Sure. Do you have a reference or better a link to buy it of Amazon ?

Cedric

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Re: [E-devel] Rust bindings

[Cedric Bail]

>  Original Message 
> Subject: [E-devel] Rust bindings
> Local Time: December 5, 2017 5:52 PM
> UTC Time: December 6, 2017 1:52 AM
> From: vini.ipsma...@gmail.com
> To: Enlightenment - dev 
>
> What's the current state of EFL bindings for Rust? I just found a Github
> repo with scarce info.

I didn't know anyone was working on it. Would be great to have one. Care to 
share the link to that repo you found ?

Cedric
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Re: [E-devel] API naming: futures_get

[Cedric Bail]

Hi,

>  Original Message 
> Subject: [E-devel] API naming: futures_get
> Local Time: December 5, 2017 11:46 AM
> UTC Time: December 5, 2017 7:46 PM
> From: a...@andywilliams.me
> To: Enlightenment developer list 
>
> Hi,
>
> The method efl_promise_future_get has a peculiar name.
> It's function is to allocate a new Efl_Loop_Future object, add it to a list
> of all futures on the promise and propagate appropriate messages.
>
> Following our convention of _get returning an existing value and _add
> creating a new one should this method not be efl_promise_future_add?

Sorry, efl_future is deprecated and we are moving all of it to Eina_Future 
which has a better more usable API and can actually be made working.

Cedric
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Re: [E-devel] [support.osuosl.org #29680] enlightenment5.osuosl.oob fan failure

[Cedric Bail]

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [support.osuosl.org #29680] enlightenment5.osuosl.oob fan failure
> Local Time: December 4, 2017 4:18 PM
> UTC Time: December 5, 2017 12:18 AM
> From: supp...@osuosl.org
> To: codyss...@osuosl.org, jaquil...@eagleeyet.net, ras...@rasterman.com
> ced...@efl.so, enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, syst...@osuosl.org, 
> rootmail-stude...@osuosl.org
>
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 04:09:09PM -0800, Jonathan Frederick via RT wrote:
>
>> On Mon Dec 04 14:57:41 2017, bertr...@jacquin.bzh wrote:
>>
>>> According to lm_sensors, all is fine:
>>> nct7904-i2c-0-2e
>>> Adapter: SMBus I801 adapter at 1180
>>> in1: +1.04 V
>>> in2: +0.43 V
>>> in3: +1.50 V
>>> in4: +0.51 V
>>> in5: +1.27 V
>>> in6: +1.26 V
>>> in7: +1.83 V
>>> in8: +1.46 V
>>> in9: +0.94 V
>>> in10: +0.82 V
>>> in11: +1.50 V
>>> in12: +2.01 V
>>> in13: +1.50 V
>>> in14: +2.01 V
>>> in15: +3.37 V
>>> in16: +3.22 V
>>> in20: +3.32 V
>>> fan1: 8035 RPM
>>> fan2: 7714 RPM
>>> fan3: 8333 RPM
>>> fan4: 0 RPM
>>> fan5: 7848 RPM
>>> fan6: 8132 RPM
>>> fan7: 0 RPM
>>> fan8: 0 RPM
>>> temp1: +36.9 C
>>> temp2: +43.5 C
>>> temp3: +51.8 C
>>> coretemp-isa-
>>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>>> Physical id 0: +35.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 0: +32.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 1: +32.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 2: +35.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 3: +30.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> coretemp-isa-0001
>>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>>> Physical id 1: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 0: +36.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 1: +34.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 2: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> Core 3: +38.0 C (high = +84.0 C, crit = +94.0 C)
>>> I'm not really sure if I should trust lm_sensors or the buzz.
>>
>> As of right now the light and buzzer are still going off, maybe the 
>> temperature
>> is fine but one of the fans have failed, triggering the buzz.
>> It's constantly on for 10 seconds at a time, then off for a while longer
>>
>> Looking at the server health from the BMC interface, no alarm is present
>> for far or temp, but it looks like FAN4 is reported as not present,
>> which is strange. Another alarm is present for Chassis Intrusion,
>> unfortunately, there is no option to disable this.
>>
>> Cedric, can we order a set of new fan to replace the existing ? I won't
>> be surprised they have been damaged with time.

Sure. Do you have a reference or better a link to buy it of Amazon ?

Cedric
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[E-devel] Rust bindings

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

What's the current state of EFL bindings for Rust? I just found a Github
repo with scarce info.

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Re: [E-devel] Blend2D - a gfx framework with dynamic pipelines support

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

2017-12-03 10:19 GMT-03:00 Carsten Haitzler :

> also i dislike the idea of a jit. i would prefer something like
> "pre-compile
> all permutations into special case functions then runtime call the
> right/matching one".
>

I'm not familiar implementing gfx engines, but with my (small) background
on compilers and the giant notes page[1], I assume there are optimizations
that can't just be implemented otherwise.

The API is like:

ctx.draw_something1();
ctx.draw_something2();
ctx.draw_something3();
ctx.end(); //< here the pipeline is compiled

In this API, the gfx engine can take info on cross-function information. If
draw_something3 completely hides draw_something2, one call can be
completely removed. It's actually boring, because you have to recompile the
whole pipeline every value changed, but the plans to support shaders will
change the situation[2][3].

There are drawbacks too. Evas already do interesting things and I just
don't know if this blend2d would actually be helpful. Evas is pretty damn
fast. And blend2d is whole CPU side, no GPU (but I still think it's
interesting because Bézier curves).

Oh, and thanks for replying to my email. It was just a different point of
view, just as I wanted to have.

[1] https://blend2d.com/notes.html
[2] https://blend2d.com/roadmap.html
[3] https://gist.github.com/vinipsmaker/08349a74566df4c4a9bf82624c13a33b

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Re: [E-devel] Enlightenment Developer Days 2018 location proposals

[jaquilina]

Wish I could join you guys this summer but for me its going to be rather 
tough.


On 2017-12-05 07:59, Stefan Schmidt wrote:

Hello.


On 12/04/2017 10:39 PM, Andrew Williams wrote:

Hi,

It's perhaps worth noting that ELCE will be in Edinburgh this year -
http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference-europe 
.
The venue is really close to where I had proposed for the E Dev Day, I 
know

it's later in the year but perhaps we could schedule to co-inside?



Good point. Forgot to mention this.

The benefit would be mostly around travel schedules and budget. The
amount of extra people we got when co-hosting with LF events have been
really low (we have been doing so in Barcelona, Edinburgh and kind of
in Duesseldorf). I might be mistaken but my guts tell me we got 1-3
extra people due the co-hosting only.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: eo: Update header for readability

[Andrew Williams]

Absolutely, good catch thanks.

Andy

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 at 20:46  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 09:04:12AM -0800, Andy Williams wrote:
> > ajwillia-ms pushed a commit to branch master.
> >
> >
> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=b6b0fac978750eaf814c8ab9ea35abfbcecc0b5c
> >
> > commit b6b0fac978750eaf814c8ab9ea35abfbcecc0b5c
> > Author: Andy Williams 
> > Date:   Tue Dec 5 17:04:19 2017 +
> >
> > eo: Update header for readability
> >
> > Author: Nate Drake
> > Reviewer: Andy Williams
> > ---
> >  src/lib/eo/Eo.h | 414
> 
> >  1 file changed, 205 insertions(+), 209 deletions(-)
> >
> > diff --git a/src/lib/eo/Eo.h b/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> > index e7e4bc3c96..99d61b0d82 100644
> > --- a/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> > +++ b/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> > @@ -10,7 +10,7 @@
> >
> >  #define EOLIAN
> >
> [...]
>
> > /* Private for EFL internal use only. Do not use these! */
> >  EAPI int ___efl_ref2_count(const Eo *obj_id);
> >  EAPI void ___efl_ref2_reset(const Eo *obj_id);
> > -EAPI void ___efl_auto_unref_set(Eo *obj_id, Eina_Bool val);
> >
>
> Ehm, ... thats not a readability issue? Can i add it back?
>
>
> >  #endif
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [E-devel] Website statistics

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:19:02 +
Andrew Williams  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> As part of the effort to rejuvenate and reshape our documentation and
> related pages on the website it would be really helpful to get
> information about where people are spending time and so forth.
> 
> The standard way to do this these days appears to be with Google
> Analytics

You may see some spam in there. There has been growing problems with
Analytics abusers throwing off stats.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=google+analytics+spam

In many cases the remedies are like whack a mole. Google seems to have
shifted focus to paying customers. I haven't seen them care or do much
to remedy the situation spanning several years now.

This was a paid product back in the day Urchin. I had a license and
used it before Analytics. Note the cut off date of sales.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urchin_(software)

Less than a year after this
https://analytics.googleblog.com/2011/09/introducing-google-analytics-premium.html

But its grown look at the analytics products a the top, try for free...
https://www.google.com/analytics/analytics/#?modal_active=none

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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: eo: Update header for readability

[marcel-hollerbach]

Hello,

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 09:04:12AM -0800, Andy Williams wrote:
> ajwillia-ms pushed a commit to branch master.
> 
> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=b6b0fac978750eaf814c8ab9ea35abfbcecc0b5c
> 
> commit b6b0fac978750eaf814c8ab9ea35abfbcecc0b5c
> Author: Andy Williams 
> Date:   Tue Dec 5 17:04:19 2017 +
> 
> eo: Update header for readability
> 
> Author: Nate Drake
> Reviewer: Andy Williams
> ---
>  src/lib/eo/Eo.h | 414 
> 
>  1 file changed, 205 insertions(+), 209 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/src/lib/eo/Eo.h b/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> index e7e4bc3c96..99d61b0d82 100644
> --- a/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> +++ b/src/lib/eo/Eo.h
> @@ -10,7 +10,7 @@
>  
>  #define EOLIAN
>  
[...]

> /* Private for EFL internal use only. Do not use these! */
>  EAPI int ___efl_ref2_count(const Eo *obj_id);
>  EAPI void ___efl_ref2_reset(const Eo *obj_id);
> -EAPI void ___efl_auto_unref_set(Eo *obj_id, Eina_Bool val);
>  

Ehm, ... thats not a readability issue? Can i add it back?


>  #endif
>  
> 
> -- 
> 
> 

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Re: [E-devel] Website statistics

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Hi Andrew,

There is also an open source alternative called piwik which does the same.

https://piwik.org/

:D

On 05/12/2017 20:19, Andrew Williams wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> As part of the effort to rejuvenate and reshape our documentation and
> related pages on the website it would be really helpful to get information
> about where people are spending time and so forth.
> 
> The standard way to do this these days appears to be with Google Analytics
> - it is simple to set up and dokuwiki has a plugin to add it to the site.
> 
> Unless anyone feels strongly against this I will add it in the next few
> days.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 



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[E-devel] API naming: futures_get

[Andrew Williams]

Hi,

The method efl_promise_future_get has a peculiar name.
It's function is to allocate a new Efl_Loop_Future object, add it to a list
of all futures on the promise and propagate appropriate messages.

Following our convention of _get returning an existing value and _add
creating a new one should this method not be efl_promise_future_add?

Thanks,
Andy
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[E-devel] Website statistics

[Andrew Williams]

Hi,

As part of the effort to rejuvenate and reshape our documentation and
related pages on the website it would be really helpful to get information
about where people are spending time and so forth.

The standard way to do this these days appears to be with Google Analytics
- it is simple to set up and dokuwiki has a plugin to add it to the site.

Unless anyone feels strongly against this I will add it in the next few
days.

Thanks,
Andy
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[E-devel] API cleaning eina_str etc

[Andrew Williams]

Hi,

Looking at the API we have aggregated over the year and thinking about our
chance to clean things up right now I can't help but feel uncomfortable
about the following:

eina_str_*
eina_stringshare_*
eina_slstr_*

These are all related but have different namespaces.
Would it be possible to tidy them up through aliases and deprecation
perhaps?

eina_string_[share|short] or even eina_str_[shr|tmp] would help a lot with
APIs and also IDE auto-completion.

Thanks,
Andy
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Re: [E-devel] Enlightenment Developer Days 2018 location proposals

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.


On 12/04/2017 10:39 PM, Andrew Williams wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's perhaps worth noting that ELCE will be in Edinburgh this year -
> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference-europe .
> The venue is really close to where I had proposed for the E Dev Day, I know
> it's later in the year but perhaps we could schedule to co-inside?
>

Good point. Forgot to mention this.

The benefit would be mostly around travel schedules and budget. The amount of 
extra people we got when co-hosting with LF events have been
really low (we have been doing so in Barcelona, Edinburgh and kind of in 
Duesseldorf). I might be mistaken but my guts tell me we got 1-3
extra people due the co-hosting only.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

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