Re: [E-devel] EFL Autotools freeze proposal

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Hi Ross,

I understand that, the issue becomes already released versions of Ubuntu and 
family. They do not just allow anything into backports unless it fixes a 
particular bug that is being encountered and it is absolutely necessary to 
update the version that was released.

In other words for Ubuntu they will tell you put it in a ppa if users want the 
bleeding edge stuff. Other than that for Ubuntu package maintainers are asked 
to get newer versions into Debian which will trickle down then into subsequent 
Ubuntu releases.

Regards,
Jonathan

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From: Ross Vandegrift 
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 12:20 AM
To: Enlightenment developer list
Subject: Re: [E-devel] EFL Autotools freeze proposal

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 05:30:33AM +, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> I think everyone is missing the point. What you are saying is true but
> that is why then they say if you want newer stuff to use a PPA for it
> even though its not in the main repo's

Yes, anyone can make a PPA. But you're talking to the maintainers of
distro packaging - we try to put packages into distros for real :)

Ross


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Re: [E-devel] EFL Autotools freeze proposal

[Ross Vandegrift]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 05:30:33AM +, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> I think everyone is missing the point. What you are saying is true but
> that is why then they say if you want newer stuff to use a PPA for it
> even though its not in the main repo's

Yes, anyone can make a PPA.  But you're talking to the maintainers of
distro packaging - we try to put packages into distros for real :)

Ross


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Re: [E-devel] EFL Autotools freeze proposal

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

On 29.04.19 05:04, Simon Lees wrote:
> Hi
> 
> On 24/04/2019 17:47, Stefan Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello
>>
>> On 22.04.19 04:32, Simon Lees wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17/04/2019 22:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:19:35 -0400 Mike Blumenkrantz
  said:

> Hi,
>
> We are currently in the 1.23 release cycle, and it seems agreed upon
> that
> we are planning to remove autotools prior to the 1.23 release.
> Overall, the
> meson build is in reasonable shape--there are some small issues on
> our main
> platforms (and larger ones for Windows)--and it should not be an
> issue to
> meet this goal.

 i thought meson was in better shape...

> With this in mind, I would like to propose a freeze on the autotools
> build
> starting Friday. This means that we no longer modify the autotools
> build in
> any way in the master branch (excepting outstanding patches in phab),
> and
> instead focus entirely on ensuring the quality of the meson build
> system.

 i think we should push this off a few more weeks/month or 2.

> There is not much action which would need to be taken for this:
> * stop patching build files
> * disable CI jobs for autotools
>
>
> I think this would help to streamline build system development and
> reduce
> overhead for this release.

 i agree on this - but the autofoo needs to still work and be up to
 date until
 the point where meson is equivalent - the windows work is one ware it
 needs to
 catch up on for sure as well as some other niggles. get all of these
 up to
 snuff and... yup. drop autotools.

>>>
>>> Meson also doesn't work on some of the longer term distros that only
>>> ship Meson 0.46 (while e does), at least from the last time I tried it.
>>
>> When you say some you mean only OpenSuSe or also other longer term
>> distros? I am not the biggest fan either of having to use newish
>> releases of build tools but meson develops more rapidly and we actually
>> did fixes on meson itself to build efl ( as well as gaining the needed
>> performance).
>>
>> We also need to see this in some context. Meson 0.46 was released on
>> 23.04.2018, which makes it a full year old by now. There actually is a
>> 0.50 release now. We are not just using the latest of meson here, we use
>> what we need to have efl building sanely for us.
>>
> 
> At the same time, Debian, Ubuntu and openSUSE are all running Stable
> releases that extend out to 2 years, when you consider that these also
> generally have feature freezes for sometime before seeing a 2.5 year old
> version of a build tool or other core OS components towards the end of
> there lifecycle should not be surprising. Its obviously been less of an
> issue with autotools / gcc / cmake as these projects are more mature and
> are intoducing fewer really useful things.

For me it is perfectly fine if they do a feature freeze and don't want
to update their build tooling. In that case this stable and feature
frozen version could have efl 1.22.x but not above.

We talk about a scenario here where the distro is stable and version are
pinned to keep it that way. Yet we should go make sure a not even
released efl version from the future will work on it.

These things do not mix well. If a user decides for a stable version now
he should be fine with running efl 1.22.x until the next stable version
of his distro comes out.


>> If I look around at other long term distro releases I can see this:
>> - Debian stable has a recent backport
>> - Ubuntu 18.04 (LTS) does ship 0.45.1 and I can't find a backport ->
>> problem
>> - Fedora has 0.47.2 back to fedora 28 and Fedora EPAL 7
>> - OpenSuse Leap 15.0 actually offers 0.46.0 while Leap 42.3 is still on
>> 0.40.1
>>
>> To mean that means I would like to know if you consider Leap 42.3 an
>> important target for an upcoming EFL release (does it actually have all
>> the other deps fr such a new release?). Also we need to find out if
>> there are backports of meson >= 0.46 for Ubuntu 18.04 which I have not
>> found.
>>
>> regards
>> Stefan Schmidt
>>
> 
> I don't consider 42.3 important, its close to end of life, soon we will
> have 15.1 as well. But for us 0.46.0 will be what we have for the 15.X
> series, i'm guessing there will be atleast another 2 releases.

2 other releases of what? Meson? EFL? OpenSuSe?

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] EFL Autotools freeze proposal

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

On 25.04.19 17:57, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 10:17:03AM +0200, Stefan Schmidt wrote:
>> If I look around at other long term distro releases I can see this:
>> - Debian stable has a recent backport
>> - Ubuntu 18.04 (LTS) does ship 0.45.1 and I can't find a backport -> problem
>> - Fedora has 0.47.2 back to fedora 28 and Fedora EPAL 7
>> - OpenSuse Leap 15.0 actually offers 0.46.0 while Leap 42.3 is still on
>> 0.40.1
>>
>> To mean that means I would like to know if you consider Leap 42.3 an
>> important target for an upcoming EFL release (does it actually have all
>> the other deps fr such a new release?). Also we need to find out if
>> there are backports of meson >= 0.46 for Ubuntu 18.04 which I have not
>> found.
> 
> There's no existing backport but one has been requested:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bionic-backports/+bug/1815092

Thanks, so we are not the only ones with this requirement. Would have
been surprising :-) I will keep this open to track the progress.

> I did a quick test, meson 0.49 builds in 18.04 with no changes & no
> additional backports.  So I think this can be overcome for Ubuntu 18.04,
> though it may need someone to push it along.

Yeah, as so often. At least we know its possible if someone wants to do it.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] Seeking inout for Enlightenment Developer Days 2019

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

On 28.04.19 07:39, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan, yes it would be the same location as last time. But then again it 
> doesn’t have to be we can meet at a restaurant with WIFI if you guys want we 
> can enjoy drinks and food easily and have no issues with a locked down 
> university network.

The original location would be fine. Restaurant or bar is for the
evening but not for the sessions where we have talks and discussions.

I will add Malta to the list of hosting offers again.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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