[E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-21 Thread Hawkwind
I've noticed that evolume was placed into CVS last night or the day
before and I was wondering what it would take for us to be able to get
eloquence into CVS as well ?  phreidrich is the maintainer of
Eloquence and I think it would be a great addition to have in CVS
since quite a few users seem to use it, and it's actively maintained
and kept updated.

I know that there is a freeze on CVS until early next week while
everything gets moved and tested so it would be nice to see this
module put into CVS once everything is up and running on the new host.

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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread phriedrich
Hi,

thanks for bringing this topic up.
I think we could do this without getting into problems as eloquence is
pretty stable right now and is to compiled and running without any
problems as far as I know, I got very positive feedback for it within
last time.

In past I were successful at keeping it compatible with the development
of e and I'll keep updating it in the future.

There's only one small point about modules and CVS in but this is not
eloquence specific: All the modules that were taken to the CVS are not
longer appearing on get-e. This isn't a problem for us using CVS and know
what modules are in, but for a person from outside looking on get-e.org
this looks if only a few modules are available.

I think we should have the modules-section of get-e.org mentioning
all the modules, maybe even the ones coming with e itself and have
a note like "built in" or "get it from cvs" or something like that. I
just guess this would looking much better (or impressive :)

Best regards,
Friedrich


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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread Hawkwind
On 3/22/06, phriedrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> thanks for bringing this topic up.
> I think we could do this without getting into problems as eloquence is
> pretty stable right now and is to compiled and running without any
> problems as far as I know, I got very positive feedback for it within
> last time.
>
> In past I were successful at keeping it compatible with the development
> of e and I'll keep updating it in the future.

I know in the past when I've had problems and asked you on IRC or
posted my error here to the ML you were quick to respond and get it
fixed and working and uploaded a new version.  We all need coders to
be like that, and we appreciate that kind of work :)

>
> There's only one small point about modules and CVS in but this is not
> eloquence specific: All the modules that were taken to the CVS are not
> longer appearing on get-e. This isn't a problem for us using CVS and know
> what modules are in, but for a person from outside looking on get-e.org
> this looks if only a few modules are available.

I have to totally agree with this.  Just because a module is put into
CVS doesn't mean it shouldn't be spoken about or linked to on
get-e.org.  I strongly believe that the more modules we show to have
that are actively maintained, the more users will want to try it.  Yes
I know that since it's beta software, that's probably not the best
thing to do.  But if I were to look at get-e.org and saw a list of the
available modules, whether built in or not, it would surely grab my
attention and make me curious.

>
> I think we should have the modules-section of get-e.org mentioning
> all the modules, maybe even the ones coming with e itself and have
> a note like "built in" or "get it from cvs" or something like that. I
> just guess this would looking much better (or impressive :)
>
> Best regards,
> Friedrich
>
>
>


--
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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread Brian Mattern
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 14:46, phriedrich wrote:

> There's only one small point about modules and CVS in but this is not
> eloquence specific: All the modules that were taken to the CVS are not
> longer appearing on get-e. This isn't a problem for us using CVS and know
> what modules are in, but for a person from outside looking on get-e.org
> this looks if only a few modules are available.
>
> I think we should have the modules-section of get-e.org mentioning
> all the modules, maybe even the ones coming with e itself and have
> a note like "built in" or "get it from cvs" or something like that. I
> just guess this would looking much better (or impressive :)

How about releasing tarballs at stable points in module dev, and sticking 
those up on get-e? The modules are in cvs to facilitate development (and not 
as an alternative distribution method), so its still up to the maintainer to 
release packages (binary or source) for distribution. Assuming the autofoo is 
working properly, it should only require a 'make dist' and an upload. :)

--
rephorm



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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread phriedrich
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:03:01 -0600
Brian Mattern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wednesday 22 March 2006 14:46, phriedrich wrote:
> > I think we should have the modules-section of get-e.org mentioning
> > all the modules, maybe even the ones coming with e itself and have
> > a note like "built in" or "get it from cvs" or something like that. I
> > just guess this would looking much better (or impressive :)
> 
> How about releasing tarballs at stable points in module dev, and
> sticking those up on get-e? The modules are in cvs to facilitate
> development (and not as an alternative distribution method), so its
> still up to the maintainer to release packages (binary or source) for
> distribution. Assuming the autofoo is working properly, it should only
> require a 'make dist' and an upload. :)

I think this would be a good idea. Stable snapshots of the modules on
get-e.org and the devel-versions on CVS. 
But nevertheless, I'd also mention CVS-only modules on get-e.org, just
because a list of all our great modules would look more impressive.

Best regards,
Friedrich


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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread Mike Russo
Brian Mattern wrote:
> How about releasing tarballs at stable points in module dev, and sticking 
> those up on get-e? The modules are in cvs to facilitate development (and not 
> as an alternative distribution method), so its still up to the maintainer to 
> release packages (binary or source) for distribution. Assuming the autofoo is 
> working properly, it should only require a 'make dist' and an upload. :)
>   
Actually I'm very happy when a module gets put into e_modules, as it
will then get kept up to date
every time I "emerge e_modules".  Of course this requires recompiling
every module in there, but
I guess I don't feel this as much with this 3ghz p4 :)  

-- 
Mike Russo
ReadQ Systems, Inc.
(212) 425 3680 x105

Random quote of the last-time-I-ran-bash:
What is involved in such [close] relationships is a form of emotional
chemistry, so far unexplained by any school of psychiatry I am aware of, that
conditions nothing so simple as a choice between the poles of attraction and
repulsion.  You can meet some people thirty, forty times down the years, and
they remain amiable bystanders, like the shore lights of towns that a sailor
passes at stated times but never calls at on the regular run.  Conversely,
all considerations of sex aside, you can meet some other people once or twice
and they remain permanent influences on your life.
Everyone is aware of this discrepancy between the acquaintance seen
as familiar wallpaper or instant friend.  The chemical action it entails is
less worth analyzing than enjoying.  At any rate, these six pieces are about
men with whom I felt an immediate sympat - to use a coining of Max Beerbohm's
more satisfactory to me than the opaque vogue word "empathy".
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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread phriedrich
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:33:26 -0500
Mike Russo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> phriedrich wrote:
> > I think this would be a good idea. Stable snapshots of the modules on
> > get-e.org and the devel-versions on CVS. 
> > But nevertheless, I'd also mention CVS-only modules on get-e.org, just
> > because a list of all our great modules would look more impressive.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Friedrich
> >   
> Hey dude -- yes eloquence has been working quite well for me now. It
> seems to work best with amarok (it stopped working with audacious so i
> just said fuck it and emerged amarok).
I had several problems with both Audacious and bmp (both gtk2 clones of
xmms) because they use the same commands but didn't respind in the right
way, for example I had to use 
  xmms_remote_get_playlist_file
in audacious to get the same result of
  xmms_remote_get_playlist_title
for xmms which was clearly a problem of audacious but nobody cared about.
It nearly drives me mad when writing audacious and bmp support that they
are so buggy.

> There is one problem I noticed
> though -- right click and try to bring up the configuration dialog, and
> e will segfault and have to be restarted.
Which version of e and eloquence are you running? My e is about one week
olde (because of the CVS problems) but I had no problems at all.
Maybe cleaning away your ~/.e/e/config/default/*eloquence* helps.

>  I also reported a similar
> problem to the creator of the blokkie theme (try to bring up the
> configuration dialog for eloquence from the e module settings menu and e
> crashes completely with an invalid free()) but he did not get a fix in
> yet. :)
If it's really theme-dependend then the're could be an unclean part in
eloquence's config dialog, but as long as I can't reproduce it I can't do
anything effective.

Friedrich


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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread Ryan Little
On 3/22/06, Brian Mattern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 14:46, phriedrich wrote:How about releasing tarballs at stable points in module dev, and stickingthose up on get-e? The modules are in cvs to facilitate development (and notas an alternative distribution method), so its still up to the maintainer to
release packages (binary or source) for distribution. Assuming the autofoo isworking properly, it should only require a 'make dist' and an upload. :)--rephorm
Other than the fact that "all" the modules aren't
necessarily stable at the same time, this shouldn't be to hard. Make
dist in any of the module dirs should build a useable tarball,
currently complete with an RPM .spec - If someone wants to take the
initiative to also add .deb build stuff to each module that would be
great too!


Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-22 Thread David Seikel
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:09 -0500 "Ryan Little" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 3/22/06, Brian Mattern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday 22 March 2006 14:46, phriedrich wrote:
> >
> > How about releasing tarballs at stable points in module dev, and
> > sticking those up on get-e? The modules are in cvs to facilitate
> > development (and not
> > as an alternative distribution method), so its still up to the
> > maintainer to
> > release packages (binary or source) for distribution. Assuming the
> > autofoo is
> > working properly, it should only require a 'make dist' and an
> > upload. :)
> >
> > --
> > rephorm
> >
> > Other than the fact that "all" the modules aren't necessarily
> > stable at
> the same time, this shouldn't be to hard. Make dist in any of the
> module dirs should build a useable tarball, currently complete with
> an RPM .spec - If someone wants to take the initiative to also
> add .deb build stuff to each module that would be great too!

We are at the beginning of the process to move cvs to a server that we
own, and the tarball process will likely change to suit.  Once
everything is settled down, we could probably expand on what gets
tarballed to enlightenment.freedesktop.org, rather than scatter cvs
snapshots all over the web.


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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence

2006-03-23 Thread Mike Russo
phriedrich wrote:
>
> Which version of e and eloquence are you running? My e is about one week
> olde (because of the CVS problems) but I had no problems at all.
> Maybe cleaning away your ~/.e/e/config/default/*eloquence* helps.
>
>   
Sorry, it's not the configuration dialog per se -- i did some more
troubleshooting (after removing all eloquence cfg files) and it appears
the e segfault happens ONLY when
- configuration is set to amarok
- left click on the OPTIONS to bring up the menu
- if you select configuration it works -- i was getting confused because
- if you go near "Control Player", e segfaults (but is restartable from
the segfault window unless i'm using the blokkie theme).

Control Player works if I use XMMS or audacious. 

-- 
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[E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-12 Thread Eric Sandall

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I have enlightenment from 20060110 and no prior installation of
eloquence installed. While compiling I get this error:
gcc -shared  .libs/e_mod_main.o .libs/e_mod_config.o .libs/xmms.o
.libs/bmp.o .libs/bmpx.o .libs/audacious.o .libs/amarok.o .libs/mpd.o
- -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libgtk.so
/usr/lib/libgdk.so /usr/lib/libgmodule.so /usr/lib/libglib.so -ldl
- -lXext -lX11 -lm /usr/lib/libxmms.so /usr/lib/libe.so
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_txt/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_job/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_x/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_con/.libs  -march=pentium4 -mmmx
- -mfpmath=sse -msse -msse2 @dlopen_libs@ -Wl,-soname -Wl,module.so -o
.libs/module.so
gcc: @dlopen_libs@: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [module.la] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/eloquence-0.4.5/src'

- -sandalle

- --
Eric Sandall |  Source Mage GNU/Linux Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://www.sourcemage.org/
http://eric.sandall.us/  |  SysAdmin @ Inst. Shock Physics @ WSU
http://counter.li.org/  #196285  |  http://www.shock.wsu.edu/
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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-12 Thread phriedrich
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:51:38 -0800 (PST)
Eric Sandall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I have enlightenment from 20060110 and no prior installation of
> eloquence installed. While compiling I get this error:
> gcc -shared  .libs/e_mod_main.o .libs/e_mod_config.o .libs/xmms.o
> .libs/bmp.o .libs/bmpx.o .libs/audacious.o .libs/amarok.o .libs/mpd.o
> - -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libgtk.so
> /usr/lib/libgdk.so /usr/lib/libgmodule.so /usr/lib/libglib.so -ldl
> - -lXext -lX11 -lm /usr/lib/libxmms.so /usr/lib/libe.so
> - -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore/.libs
> - -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_txt/.libs
> - -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_job/.libs
> - -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_x/.libs
> - -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_con/.libs  -march=pentium4 -mmmx
> - -mfpmath=sse -msse -msse2 @dlopen_libs@ -Wl,-soname -Wl,module.so -o
> .libs/module.so
> gcc: @dlopen_libs@: No such file or directory
> make[2]: *** [module.la] Error 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/eloquence-0.4.5/src'
> 
> - -sandalle

Mhm, difficult to say, I got it working on yesterday's CVS, look like it's
some automake/configure problem.

Please try the version from
http://www.phriedrich.artfact.at/eloquence.php

Best regards,
phriedrich


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-16 Thread Foxy

phriedrich wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:51:38 -0800 (PST)
Eric Sandall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I have enlightenment from 20060110 and no prior installation of
eloquence installed. While compiling I get this error:
gcc -shared  .libs/e_mod_main.o .libs/e_mod_config.o .libs/xmms.o
.libs/bmp.o .libs/bmpx.o .libs/audacious.o .libs/amarok.o .libs/mpd.o
- -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libgtk.so
/usr/lib/libgdk.so /usr/lib/libgmodule.so /usr/lib/libglib.so -ldl
- -lXext -lX11 -lm /usr/lib/libxmms.so /usr/lib/libe.so
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_txt/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_job/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_x/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_con/.libs  -march=pentium4 -mmmx
- -mfpmath=sse -msse -msse2 @dlopen_libs@ -Wl,-soname -Wl,module.so -o
.libs/module.so
gcc: @dlopen_libs@: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [module.la] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/eloquence-0.4.5/src'

- -sandalle



Mhm, difficult to say, I got it working on yesterday's CVS, look like it's
some automake/configure problem.

Please try the version from
http://www.phriedrich.artfact.at/eloquence.php

Best regards,
phriedrich
  

I've got an error with 0.4.6:
amarok.c:99: error: 'Ecore_Event_Exe_Data' undeclared (first use in 
this function)

amarok.c:99: error: 'ev' undeclared (first use in this function)
amarok.c: In function 'dcop_exit':
amarok.c:124: error: 'Ecore_Event_Exe_Exit' undeclared (first use in 
this function)

amarok.c:124: error: 'ev' undeclared (first use in this function)
make[2]: *** [amarok.lo] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory 
`/home/foxy/Programmes/emodules/eloquence-0.4.6/src'

make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory 
`/home/foxy/Programmes/emodules/eloquence-0.4.6'

make: *** [all] Error 2


I've got the latest cvs update.


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-16 Thread phriedrich
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:53:05 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> I've got the latest cvs update.
> 

My e is about four or five days old, looks like something has been
changed, I'll look into it.

Regards,

Friedrich


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-17 Thread phriedrich
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:39:36 +0100
phriedrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:53:05 +
> Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I've got the latest cvs update.
> > 
> 
> My e is about four or five days old, looks like something has been
> changed, I'll look into it.

I fixed eloquence' amarok plug-in to compile again.
There were some changes in Ecore to make the EXE-things more consistent.

Eloquence can be downloaded from [1] immediately  or from get-e.org as
soon as it is updated there.

I didn't change the version-number, it's still 0.4.6.

Best regards,
phriedrich

--
[1]: http://www.phriedrich.artfact.at/eloquence.php
--





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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-17 Thread phriedrich
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:31:08 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >   
> thanks a lot. It compiles now but segfaults when I try to enable it :(
> 

Try to delete eloquence' old config then, look into the README for that.
Right on the end there's described how to do that.

Regards,
Friedrich


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-21 Thread Foxy

phriedrich wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:31:08 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  
  
  

thanks a lot. It compiles now but segfaults when I try to enable it :(




Try to delete eloquence' old config then, look into the README for that.
Right on the end there's described how to do that.

Regards,
Friedrich
  
thanks a lot, it loads fine now. However, I cannot make it work. It used 
to, but now I cannot select amarok and eloquence does not display songs 
anymore. What could be a problem?



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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-21 Thread phriedrich
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:47:22 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It used 
> to, but now I cannot select amarok and eloquence does not display songs 
> anymore. What could be a problem?

Is amarok in $PATH at compile-time? It checks if it's present, when not
it will be not enabled, and no entry for amarok is included in the
config-dialog.

Or what else do you mean by 'you can not selecet it'?

Regards,
phriedrich


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-21 Thread phriedrich
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:10:25 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> phriedrich wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:47:22 +
> > Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> It used 
> >> to, but now I cannot select amarok and eloquence does not display
> >> songs anymore. What could be a problem?
> >> 
> >
> > Is amarok in $PATH at compile-time? It checks if it's present, when
> > not it will be not enabled, and no entry for amarok is included in the
> > config-dialog.
> >
> > Or what else do you mean by 'you can not selecet it'?
> >
> > Regards,
> > phriedrich
> >   
> I've got the entry in the config dialog, but if I click on radio radio 
> button it is not selected... See the image attached.

Ah, interesting, that seems to be a real bug, I'll look into it later
the day, thanks.

Regards,
phriedrich


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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-22 Thread phriedrich
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:15:37 +
Foxy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [...]
> thanks a lot!

I hope it works now.
http://www.phriedrich.artfact.at/eloquence.php
(eloquence-0.4.7.tar.gz)

Also includes updates to work with config_dialog changes from this
afternoon.



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Re: [E-devel] eloquence 0.4.5 fails to compile

2006-01-24 Thread Eric Sandall

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, phriedrich wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:51:38 -0800 (PST)
Eric Sandall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


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I have enlightenment from 20060110 and no prior installation of
eloquence installed. While compiling I get this error:
gcc -shared  .libs/e_mod_main.o .libs/e_mod_config.o .libs/xmms.o
.libs/bmp.o .libs/bmpx.o .libs/audacious.o .libs/amarok.o .libs/mpd.o
- -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libgtk.so
/usr/lib/libgdk.so /usr/lib/libgmodule.so /usr/lib/libglib.so -ldl
- -lXext -lX11 -lm /usr/lib/libxmms.so /usr/lib/libe.so
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_txt/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_job/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_x/.libs
- -L/usr/src/ecore-cvs/src/lib/ecore_con/.libs  -march=pentium4 -mmmx
- -mfpmath=sse -msse -msse2 @dlopen_libs@ -Wl,-soname -Wl,module.so -o
.libs/module.so
gcc: @dlopen_libs@: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [module.la] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/eloquence-0.4.5/src'

- -sandalle


Mhm, difficult to say, I got it working on yesterday's CVS, look like it's
some automake/configure problem.

Please try the version from
http://www.phriedrich.artfact.at/eloquence.php


Sorry, I didn't have time 'till now to try it. Updating to 0.4.7 works
fine, thanks! I've updated the Source Mage GNU/Linux package of
eloquence to 0.4.7.

- -sandalle

- --
Eric Sandall |  Source Mage GNU/Linux Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://www.sourcemage.org/
http://eric.sandall.us/  |  SysAdmin @ Inst. Shock Physics @ WSU
http://counter.li.org/  #196285  |  http://www.shock.wsu.edu/
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Re: [E-devel] Eloquence - Re: converting modules to 'new' API

2006-07-14 Thread phriedrich
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:17:27 +
Hannes Janetzek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Moin,
> ich hab es wirklich nur für meine Zwecke zum laufen gebracht, das
> theme ist hardcoded und schlimmeres... Ach ja, aufgeräumt hab ich den
> code auch nicht. :)
Ich hab jetzt noch nicht reingesehen, aber es ist doch mal ein
Anfang...mit dem Shelf hab ich mich bisher noch garnicht beschäftigt, ich
hab mich einfach die letzten drei Monate dem Update verweigert. ;)

> Eine Sache die ich eigentlich noch einbauen wollte wäre
> das das shelf in den Vordergrund kommt wenn ein neues Lied beginnt.
Das wäre als Option möglich, mir selbst gefiele es nicht sonderlich, aber
klar warum nicht.

> Das ist zumindest etwas für das das shelf
> konzept doch ganz gut ist. 
Ja, die Shelfes find ich insgesammt auch überhaupt nicht doll, sind
einfach schlechter zu konfigurieren als die alte Methode.

Danke jedenfalls erstmal für den Code und ich schau mal rein was ich
mache und dann haben wir hoffentlich bald ein komplett funktionierendes
eloquence im Shelf, 

Gruß,
Friedrich


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