Re: [E-devel] Pros and cons of various EFL ways of writing an embedded game.
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 03:39:16 +1000 David Seikel said: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:08:41 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > wrote: > > > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:54:47 +1000 David Seikel > > said: > > > > > I'll be developing an embedded game, and I want to use EFL for it. > > > Actually, already working on an older game developed by someone > > > else, but this new one I can start from scratch for some aspects. > > > I'd like to see some discussion about the pro and cons of the > > > various choices available to me when using EFL for this project. > > > So I can benefit from the experiences of others. > > > > > > I do want to use edje for the graphics, with lua in the edje if it's > > > ready enough. The main development language is C though. > > > > > > Probably most important is which type of display to use. X is > > > likely to be overkill. The previous game used a combination of > > > svgalib and ncurses. The method used to build svgalib from scratch > > > sent shivers of horror up my spine. I don't want to use svgalib. > > > Mixing a graphics and text environments seemed wrong to me to, and > > > has caused some problems. So, what else other than X, svgalib, and > > > ncurses, that does use EFL, and lets us use edje, do people suggest > > > and why? > > > > svgalib? then its moving far from embedded. you have a bios.. and a > > vga bios.. and vga... and .. why not just use fbcon? kernel has done > > vesa fb gfx for a long time... > > Looks good. > > > but in reality if its x86 - x works > > and isnt bad in that it provide u with a sane display env and even if > > all u do is open a window fullscrene in x and dont even run a wm.. > > it's lean and wont really get in the way much. it will create less > > pain - like input device support etc. > > Less pain maybe, but taking up more space. Input device support is not > an issue, our "input devices" are nothing that X or anything else > supports. lol > > > > At some point a version of linux I build from the ground up will be > > > used. Currently DSL that has been cut down is being used. The > > > problem with that is that it still carries too much crap we don't > > > use. Uses too much storage space. It gets harder and harder to > > > trim out the unused crap, so building a linux up to only have what > > > we need is a better solution. > > > > openembedded can make small targets... but what is your target? it's > > x86? where is your os stored? how? i'm going to assume for now its > > something like a small hdd or compact flash, sd-card etc... which > > means you have space to burn. > > My preferred target was ARM, but we ended up with a 486 based SOC last > time I checked. The storage is whatever is on the SOC, plus CF if we > need more space. The CF will be via an external IDE converter. shrugs > > BUT, we want to move away from having this external IDE converter, > which means that sooner or later, we will have to put up with the > limited storage of the SOC. I don't think of this project as having > space to burn. That's why we are changing from a cut down DSL to a > roll your own linux. > > Just plain fbcon+EFL will probably be the go. well.. i have worked on phones that use efl AND x11.. and they have all of 64m of flash - 128m too and thats luxurious. i have had x on my ipaq... which had a total of 16mb flash and used a grand total flash fs foorptint including kernel, libc, x libx and xserver for about 4mb of flash. x is not big, fat and bloated. invariably the infrastructure it provides sooner or later you end up replacing yourself, adding work, time to market, and bloat to the point you are no longer smaller than x. just incompatibly different. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Pros and cons of various EFL ways of writing an embedded game.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:08:41 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:54:47 +1000 David Seikel > said: > > > I'll be developing an embedded game, and I want to use EFL for it. > > Actually, already working on an older game developed by someone > > else, but this new one I can start from scratch for some aspects. > > I'd like to see some discussion about the pro and cons of the > > various choices available to me when using EFL for this project. > > So I can benefit from the experiences of others. > > > > I do want to use edje for the graphics, with lua in the edje if it's > > ready enough. The main development language is C though. > > > > Probably most important is which type of display to use. X is > > likely to be overkill. The previous game used a combination of > > svgalib and ncurses. The method used to build svgalib from scratch > > sent shivers of horror up my spine. I don't want to use svgalib. > > Mixing a graphics and text environments seemed wrong to me to, and > > has caused some problems. So, what else other than X, svgalib, and > > ncurses, that does use EFL, and lets us use edje, do people suggest > > and why? > > svgalib? then its moving far from embedded. you have a bios.. and a > vga bios.. and vga... and .. why not just use fbcon? kernel has done > vesa fb gfx for a long time... Looks good. > but in reality if its x86 - x works > and isnt bad in that it provide u with a sane display env and even if > all u do is open a window fullscrene in x and dont even run a wm.. > it's lean and wont really get in the way much. it will create less > pain - like input device support etc. Less pain maybe, but taking up more space. Input device support is not an issue, our "input devices" are nothing that X or anything else supports. lol > > At some point a version of linux I build from the ground up will be > > used. Currently DSL that has been cut down is being used. The > > problem with that is that it still carries too much crap we don't > > use. Uses too much storage space. It gets harder and harder to > > trim out the unused crap, so building a linux up to only have what > > we need is a better solution. > > openembedded can make small targets... but what is your target? it's > x86? where is your os stored? how? i'm going to assume for now its > something like a small hdd or compact flash, sd-card etc... which > means you have space to burn. My preferred target was ARM, but we ended up with a 486 based SOC last time I checked. The storage is whatever is on the SOC, plus CF if we need more space. The CF will be via an external IDE converter. shrugs BUT, we want to move away from having this external IDE converter, which means that sooner or later, we will have to put up with the limited storage of the SOC. I don't think of this project as having space to burn. That's why we are changing from a cut down DSL to a roll your own linux. Just plain fbcon+EFL will probably be the go. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Pros and cons of various EFL ways of writing an embedded game.
Hi, On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM, David Seikel wrote: > I'll be developing an embedded game, and I want to use EFL for it. > Actually, already working on an older game developed by someone else, > but this new one I can start from scratch for some aspects. I'd like to > see some discussion about the pro and cons of the various choices > available to me when using EFL for this project. So I can benefit from > the experiences of others. As I am already using the EFL for such type of project, I can share some information. But first, my case is a particular highly constrained case (small CPU with little graphic hardware acceleration for an HD output). > I do want to use edje for the graphics, with lua in the edje if it's > ready enough. The main development language is C though. More tester for lua in edje is a good thing. And don't hesitate to report any problem. > Probably most important is which type of display to use. X is likely > to be overkill. The previous game used a combination of svgalib and > ncurses. The method used to build svgalib from scratch sent shivers of > horror up my spine. I don't want to use svgalib. Mixing a graphics > and text environments seemed wrong to me to, and has caused some > problems. So, what else other than X, svgalib, and ncurses, that does > use EFL, and lets us use edje, do people suggest and why? DirectFB, SDL or custom evas engine directly binded to your driver. It really depend on your hardware, and with the help of ecore_evas it's almost transparent to the game developper. So depend more on your hardware than on the EFL -- Cedric BAIL -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Pros and cons of various EFL ways of writing an embedded game.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:54:47 +1000 David Seikel said: > I'll be developing an embedded game, and I want to use EFL for it. > Actually, already working on an older game developed by someone else, > but this new one I can start from scratch for some aspects. I'd like to > see some discussion about the pro and cons of the various choices > available to me when using EFL for this project. So I can benefit from > the experiences of others. > > I do want to use edje for the graphics, with lua in the edje if it's > ready enough. The main development language is C though. > > Probably most important is which type of display to use. X is likely > to be overkill. The previous game used a combination of svgalib and > ncurses. The method used to build svgalib from scratch sent shivers of > horror up my spine. I don't want to use svgalib. Mixing a graphics > and text environments seemed wrong to me to, and has caused some > problems. So, what else other than X, svgalib, and ncurses, that does > use EFL, and lets us use edje, do people suggest and why? svgalib? then its moving far from embedded. you have a bios.. and a vga bios.. and vga... and .. why not just use fbcon? kernel has done vesa fb gfx for a long time... but in reality if its x86 - x works and isnt bad in that it provide u with a sane display env and even if all u do is open a window fullscrene in x and dont even run a wm.. it's lean and wont really get in the way much. it will create less pain - like input device support etc. > At some point a version of linux I build from the ground up will be > used. Currently DSL that has been cut down is being used. The problem > with that is that it still carries too much crap we don't use. Uses > too much storage space. It gets harder and harder to trim out the > unused crap, so building a linux up to only have what we need is a > better solution. openembedded can make small targets... but what is your target? it's x86? where is your os stored? how? i'm going to assume for now its something like a small hdd or compact flash, sd-card etc... which means you have space to burn. > The other good thing about building a specialized custom linux, it will > boot a lot quicker, no need to spend lots of time probing the hardware > to find drivers. We control the hardware, and we will know what > drivers are needed. Quick booting is important for this project. > > Just woke up, so probably more later when I think of it. lol > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Pros and cons of various EFL ways of writing an embedded game.
I'll be developing an embedded game, and I want to use EFL for it. Actually, already working on an older game developed by someone else, but this new one I can start from scratch for some aspects. I'd like to see some discussion about the pro and cons of the various choices available to me when using EFL for this project. So I can benefit from the experiences of others. I do want to use edje for the graphics, with lua in the edje if it's ready enough. The main development language is C though. Probably most important is which type of display to use. X is likely to be overkill. The previous game used a combination of svgalib and ncurses. The method used to build svgalib from scratch sent shivers of horror up my spine. I don't want to use svgalib. Mixing a graphics and text environments seemed wrong to me to, and has caused some problems. So, what else other than X, svgalib, and ncurses, that does use EFL, and lets us use edje, do people suggest and why? At some point a version of linux I build from the ground up will be used. Currently DSL that has been cut down is being used. The problem with that is that it still carries too much crap we don't use. Uses too much storage space. It gets harder and harder to trim out the unused crap, so building a linux up to only have what we need is a better solution. The other good thing about building a specialized custom linux, it will boot a lot quicker, no need to spend lots of time probing the hardware to find drivers. We control the hardware, and we will know what drivers are needed. Quick booting is important for this project. Just woke up, so probably more later when I think of it. lol signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
