Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
jose_ogp wrote: >Apologies for the email client... nothing I can do at the moment. > But to clarify the replies a bit: The first one was intended as a reply > to Cedric's comment on virtual desktops, the latter one was a reply to > Tom Hacohen on his comment regarding the ease of creating profiles. > >In any case, this is something I've discussed somewhat at length with > both Cedric and Vincent, and somewhat with Carsten... everyone seems > to have their own views on what's best. Ok, email client (maybe) fixed... Just thought I'd take the opportunity while I'm at this to send everyone here some links related to this notion of "shell" theming, for those that may be unfamiliar with this notion -- it's been around a long time, especially in the MS Windows world of customization. The overall notion of theming (or skinning as it's also sometimes called) when it comes to the full gui-shell experience, can be broken down into several sub-systems. For example, one that themes the window decorations/menus/etc, one that themes say init/splash screens, one that themes background wallpapers, one that themes icon sets, etc... Current e17 (plus say fdo) has those sub-systems and one can create and share such themes. But one in particular that is missing in e is the ability to 'theme' the desktop gui-shell itself -- ie. to specify what themed 'gadgets' to place where on the desktop, what kinds of virtual desktops to have and with what on them, etc. This capability is there in e17, but only for each user to setup.. it's not a sub-system that has an easily exported/imported bundle like decoration themes, wallpaper themes, splash themes, etc. In the Windows world, one does find exactly that missing sub-system... done by several third-parties. Two well-known ones are Stardock's "DesktopX" (proprietary) and "Rainmeter" (gpl), though there are several others (Stardock itself also offers the other kinds of subsystems.. window decorations, wallpapers, splash, icons, etc). Just to give you an idea of what this gui-shell skinning can be like, here are links to repos where you can find multitudes of them. First, here's a repo for DesktopX desktop-shell themes: http://www.wincustomize.com/explore/desktopx_themes/sort/popular/sortby/halloffame There are literally thousands of these made by people... You can spend time browsing thru them (and note btw that screenshots alone will not do these justice as they are often very animated, see videos later below). And here is a repo for Rainmeter desktop-shell themes: http://www.customize.org/rainmeter/skins Again, there are thousands of them for everyone to browse thru... some are fairly moderate, some fairly extreme. These skins/themes are usually very animated and you can see some example videos (elaborate showcase ones) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zukaxUYlfZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBMGe4vjLTE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW-ohF9tRI8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-P-NdDvSVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujdKSrptsPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k12R_FRPsso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCCX9HuPb-Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_MekUL2SWs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn2FpdI5-C0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2KvbI-P-ak Hopefully the above will give everyone who hasn't been exposed to this a good idea of what be accomplished. It's something which e could also have with just a bit of work, and I think would help raise e's popularity (as well as provide some interesting and/or useful environments). Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/511e906938c08106863c9st03duc -- The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel - in partnership with Geeknet, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials, tech docs, whitepapers, evaluation guides, and opinion stories. Check out the most recent posts - join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
Apologies for the email client... nothing I can do at the moment. But to clarify the replies a bit: The first one was intended as a reply to Cedric's comment on virtual desktops, the latter one was a reply to Tom Hacohen on his comment regarding the ease of creating profiles. In any case, this is something I've discussed somewhat at length with both Cedric and Vincent, and somewhat with Carsten... everyone seems to have their own views on what's best. Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/511e56b99dc9356b9477ast04duc -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
agreed, I have no idea what's going on On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Guillaume Friloux < guillaume.fril...@asp64.com> wrote: > On 15/02/2013 16:09, jose_...@juno.com wrote: > >> Exactly, all those kinds of nuances should be doable... BUT, more >> importantly I'd say, >> is that the result ought to be an easily distributable bundle just as >> themes, inits, >> wallpapers are. >> Profiles are easy to create on your system, but impossible to >> distribute and making >> them so could be fairly involved and could also mean possibly exporting a >> large amount >> of un-needed data.. For example, would you export the current theme as >> well, the current >> init/splash, any custom theme elements from other themes that you're >> using, etc. >> What I feel is needed, as I've argued with you and Carsten, is a >> dedicated "shell" >> theming sub-system, which would allow for bundling/exporting just those >> elements that >> commonly refer to customizing the desktop itself (including such things >> as virtual desktops >> that it might define), not eg. e17 widgetry themes or complex >> constructions that are allowed >> by e17's comprehensive customization capabiliites. >>Two well-known examples of this notion (as I showed you) are of >> course things like >> Stardock's DesktopX and also Rainmeter, both from the MS Windows world. >> >> >> Hello, your mail client breaks threads, so if you cant config/change > your mail client to do so, please try to keep quotes of who + sentences > you are answering too, or it gets very annoying. > > > -- > Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer > Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 > and get the hardware for free! Learn more. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
And how do you propose distributing some profile that you create on your system so that others might also enjoy the custom experience that you made? What would you include with it? e17 widgetry/gadget themes, wallpaper themes, splash themes, are all subsystems that can be created and distributed for people to share, in a fairly effiicient way. That's the kind of functionality that something like a "shell" theming system would enable for the shell gui, but more restrictiveand simpler than a full profile.. and indeed one can imagine customizing the gui shell relative to a well-known profile. How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/511e51f457aa951f404aest03duc -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On 15/02/2013 16:09, jose_...@juno.com wrote: Exactly, all those kinds of nuances should be doable... BUT, more importantly I'd say, is that the result ought to be an easily distributable bundle just as themes, inits, wallpapers are. Profiles are easy to create on your system, but impossible to distribute and making them so could be fairly involved and could also mean possibly exporting a large amount of un-needed data.. For example, would you export the current theme as well, the current init/splash, any custom theme elements from other themes that you're using, etc. What I feel is needed, as I've argued with you and Carsten, is a dedicated "shell" theming sub-system, which would allow for bundling/exporting just those elements that commonly refer to customizing the desktop itself (including such things as virtual desktops that it might define), not eg. e17 widgetry themes or complex constructions that are allowed by e17's comprehensive customization capabiliites. Two well-known examples of this notion (as I showed you) are of course things like Stardock's DesktopX and also Rainmeter, both from the MS Windows world. Hello, your mail client breaks threads, so if you cant config/change your mail client to do so, please try to keep quotes of who + sentences you are answering too, or it gets very annoying. <>-- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
Exactly, all those kinds of nuances should be doable... BUT, more importantly I'd say, is that the result ought to be an easily distributable bundle just as themes, inits, wallpapers are. Profiles are easy to create on your system, but impossible to distribute and making them so could be fairly involved and could also mean possibly exporting a large amount of un-needed data.. For example, would you export the current theme as well, the current init/splash, any custom theme elements from other themes that you're using, etc. What I feel is needed, as I've argued with you and Carsten, is a dedicated "shell" theming sub-system, which would allow for bundling/exporting just those elements that commonly refer to customizing the desktop itself (including such things as virtual desktops that it might define), not eg. e17 widgetry themes or complex constructions that are allowed by e17's comprehensive customization capabiliites. Two well-known examples of this notion (as I showed you) are of course things like Stardock's DesktopX and also Rainmeter, both from the MS Windows world. NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1 -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Tom Hacohen wrote: > On 14/02/13 17:32, jose_...@juno.com wrote: >> Well, this is interesting >> >> I have no idea what this person might be thinking about, but this >> is a topic that is well known to Carsten and Cedric... and indeed I've >> brought it up with them before. >> There are plenty of examples/inspiration of this notion in the >> Windows >> world.. you just have to look around a bit. If you don't have much exposure >> to this kind of thing, you can ask Cedric and he may be able to send you >> some links I've sent him in the past. >> >> The notion of an e17 profile is very powerful, but I personally >> think it's >> also too large and comprehensive to be something that is easily created >> and shared, like for example e17 themes, inits, and backgrounds are. >> >> A notion of "shell" theme consisting primarily of a set of desktop >> gadgets >> (or rather just their themes) and the config for placing them on the desktop, >> plus possibly custom wallpaper, and maybe some other aspects (eg. modules), >> could be bundled as an eet (indeed even as an edje with data parts). >> It would provide an easier to create, and distribute, method for >> obtaining custom >> 'gui shells', and rival the kind of desktop customization/skinning that has >> been >> around in the Windows world for a very long time. It would even be possible >> to have >> such shell-themes specific to particular well-known profiles (desktop, >> mobile, etc), >> and so they could be considered as extensions or modifications of such >> profiles. >> >> Jose. > > > Unlike themes, profiles are *very* easy to create. You just set up your > config in a running e session and copy it over, give or take. The idea is to go a little further and have a skin per virtual desktop that you can easily share. So a set of config for gadget, shelf, wallpaper and theme packed together that you can decide to apply to a virtual desktop or a screen or everywhere. -- Cedric BAIL -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On 14/02/13 17:32, jose_...@juno.com wrote: > Well, this is interesting > > I have no idea what this person might be thinking about, but this > is a topic that is well known to Carsten and Cedric... and indeed I've > brought it up with them before. > There are plenty of examples/inspiration of this notion in the Windows > world.. you just have to look around a bit. If you don't have much exposure > to this kind of thing, you can ask Cedric and he may be able to send you > some links I've sent him in the past. > > The notion of an e17 profile is very powerful, but I personally think > it's > also too large and comprehensive to be something that is easily created > and shared, like for example e17 themes, inits, and backgrounds are. > > A notion of "shell" theme consisting primarily of a set of desktop > gadgets > (or rather just their themes) and the config for placing them on the desktop, > plus possibly custom wallpaper, and maybe some other aspects (eg. modules), > could be bundled as an eet (indeed even as an edje with data parts). > It would provide an easier to create, and distribute, method for > obtaining custom > 'gui shells', and rival the kind of desktop customization/skinning that has > been > around in the Windows world for a very long time. It would even be possible > to have > such shell-themes specific to particular well-known profiles (desktop, > mobile, etc), > and so they could be considered as extensions or modifications of such > profiles. > > Jose. Unlike themes, profiles are *very* easy to create. You just set up your config in a running e session and copy it over, give or take. -- Tom. -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:14:54 +0300 المسالم المسالمة said: > hello again > > i have a beautifull good look and simple for E17 desktop in my mind > > but before that > > i wish to know if you will be ready to throw old fashion desktop looks that > almost all the rival environments has share it with e17 > > so how about it what? do what gnome did? :) ie lose users. :) seriously. the old fashioned look is what e is doing (by default) and that's because its what people generally want or accept. if you want something else its as easy as configuring - making your own profiles from your config, adding modules or writing them, making themes etc. - it's not something core to e itself. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
Well, this is interesting I have no idea what this person might be thinking about, but this is a topic that is well known to Carsten and Cedric... and indeed I've brought it up with them before. There are plenty of examples/inspiration of this notion in the Windows world.. you just have to look around a bit. If you don't have much exposure to this kind of thing, you can ask Cedric and he may be able to send you some links I've sent him in the past. The notion of an e17 profile is very powerful, but I personally think it's also too large and comprehensive to be something that is easily created and shared, like for example e17 themes, inits, and backgrounds are. A notion of "shell" theme consisting primarily of a set of desktop gadgets (or rather just their themes) and the config for placing them on the desktop, plus possibly custom wallpaper, and maybe some other aspects (eg. modules), could be bundled as an eet (indeed even as an edje with data parts). It would provide an easier to create, and distribute, method for obtaining custom 'gui shells', and rival the kind of desktop customization/skinning that has been around in the Windows world for a very long time. It would even be possible to have such shell-themes specific to particular well-known profiles (desktop, mobile, etc), and so they could be considered as extensions or modifications of such profiles. Jose. How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/511d1fc09d18e1fc007c6st04duc -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On 14/02/13 16:21, P Purkayastha wrote: > On 02/15/2013 12:14 AM, المسالم المسالمة wrote: >> hello again >> >> i have a beautifull good look and simple for E17 desktop in my mind >> >> but before that >> >> i wish to know if you will be ready to throw old fashion desktop looks that >> almost all the rival environments has share it with e17 >> >> so how about it > > Why do you need to throw away the current one? Just create a new > profile. Profiles can be changed on the fly. And also, even if it wasn't profile, a mock-up or an idea it least could help us decide if what you are suggesting is worth looking into. -- Tom. -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
On 02/15/2013 12:14 AM, المسالم المسالمة wrote: > hello again > > i have a beautifull good look and simple for E17 desktop in my mind > > but before that > > i wish to know if you will be ready to throw old fashion desktop looks that > almost all the rival environments has share it with e17 > > so how about it Why do you need to throw away the current one? Just create a new profile. Profiles can be changed on the fly. -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] can we get a rid of this old fashion desktop look
hello again i have a beautifull good look and simple for E17 desktop in my mind but before that i wish to know if you will be ready to throw old fashion desktop looks that almost all the rival environments has share it with e17 so how about it -- Free Next-Gen Firewall Hardware Offer Buy your Sophos next-gen firewall before the end March 2013 and get the hardware for free! Learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sophos-d2d-feb ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
