Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:21:40 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:

 
  ...
  ...
  I think this would be a cleaner route than tracking internal
  dialogs and re-showing them. As more functionality is added to e,
  restarting will become more and more of a cost (dbus connections
  resetting, having to re-query daemon state, etc)...
  
  rephorm
 
   A nice example of a point that one should keep in mind
 for all things.

indeed - maybe some work to make themes change on the fly would be in order?

jose.
 
 
 
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-22 Thread Ravenlock
Thanks to all who responded.  I have a much better understanding now.  :)

-Ravenlock

On 03/16/2007 07:17, Ravenlock wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?
 
 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)
 
 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?
 
 Also, how about this one:
 
 * desktop flip animations need to allow control over accel/decel and 
 have a better ui - add wobble and controls etc. etc.
 
 Seems to me this is done?  There are controls for type of animation and 
 its speed, via Config - screen - virtual desktop.  Is that not what 
 this item is referring to?  I don't understand wobble.  That a new 
 transistion type?
 
 And finally this one:
 
 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart
 
 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.
 
 Thanks.  :)
 


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Ravenlock

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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:17:27 -0500 Ravenlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 Hello,
 
 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?
 
 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)
 
 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?

yes - currently winlist is just one big long list. being able to segment it per
desktop for example or into visible and iconified etc. etc. windows would be
nice.

 Also, how about this one:
 
 * desktop flip animations need to allow control over accel/decel and 
 have a better ui - add wobble and controls etc. etc.
 
 Seems to me this is done?  There are controls for type of animation and 
 its speed, via Config - screen - virtual desktop.  Is that not what 
 this item is referring to?  I don't understand wobble.  That a new 
 transistion type?

most of this is done - but there are more things to do - right now it just
slides until done - it would be nice to have a bit more control over the final
destination - it overshoots then slides back a bit - wobbling around the
destination a bit like how thumbnails appear in fm2

 And finally this one:
 
 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart
 
 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.

change theme - and dialog goes away. bad. people dont realise e actually
restarted and wonder why dialogs would go away.

 Thanks.  :)
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Ravenlock
 
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:55:37 -0500 Eric Schuele [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:

 On 03/16/2007 15:26, Brian Mattern wrote:
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:10:56AM -0500, Eric Schuele wrote:
  hehe... a wobble transistion.  cool.  you think each window individually 
  should wobble or the entire desktop?
  
  More like when you switch desktops, the old desktop's windows immediately
  disappear, and the new desktop's windows appear, but wobble for a
  second. 
  
  However, I don't see how this would be possible without a compositor.
  
  While on the topic of desktop transitions does anyone else notice that
  e17's seem pretty slow? they get choppy when i have large and/or many
  windows (on an athlon 64 3000+). e16 handled sliding windows beautifully
  on an 800mhz box...
 
 yes.   I have noticed this.  Thought it was simply my graphics adapter 
 wasn't keeping up.  Sloow and choppy, even on my 2.66Ghz P4 laptop.

turn off dropshadow and watch it get smooth. dropshadow is not cheap.

  
  rephorm
  
  
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-17 Thread Eric Schuele
On 03/16/2007 15:26, Brian Mattern wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:10:56AM -0500, Eric Schuele wrote:
 hehe... a wobble transistion.  cool.  you think each window individually 
 should wobble or the entire desktop?
 
 More like when you switch desktops, the old desktop's windows immediately
 disappear, and the new desktop's windows appear, but wobble for a
 second. 
 
 However, I don't see how this would be possible without a compositor.
 
 While on the topic of desktop transitions does anyone else notice that
 e17's seem pretty slow? they get choppy when i have large and/or many
 windows (on an athlon 64 3000+). e16 handled sliding windows beautifully
 on an 800mhz box...

yes.   I have noticed this.  Thought it was simply my graphics adapter 
wasn't keeping up.  Sloow and choppy, even on my 2.66Ghz P4 laptop.

 
 rephorm
 
 
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy
Hi,

On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?
 
 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)
 
 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?
 
 Also, how about this one:
 
 * desktop flip animations need to allow control over accel/decel and 
 have a better ui - add wobble and controls etc. etc.
 
 Seems to me this is done?  There are controls for type of animation and 
 its speed, via Config - screen - virtual desktop.  Is that not what 
 this item is referring to?  I don't understand wobble.  That a new 
 transistion type?
The current settings are very basic. You are only able to set the
animation type and the speed, but you can't set the
acceleration/decelleration manually.
What wobble is can you see, when you open the file manager. The preview
images are moving a bit when they are showed - they are wobbling. :)

 
 And finally this one:
 
 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart
 
 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.
Try to change the theme. You will notice that the theme selection dialog
is closed when the new theme is applied. Even every other e17 internal
dialog. You can also try enlightenment-restart from the menu.

 
 Thanks.  :)
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Ravenlock
Greets,
Brian

 
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Brian Mattern
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?
 
 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)
 
 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?

Right now the winlist only shows windows on the current desktop. I think
the idea with this was to have it show windows in other desktops also,
but group them somehow. The details were never really fleshed out,
though.


 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart
 
 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.

This is only really an issue when changing themes. So, maybe only the
theme dialog needs to re-open and only after a restart due to the theme
being changed?

Alternatively, we could try to implement theme switches without
requiring a restart. But, that's probably more trouble than its worth.

rephorm


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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Luchezar Petkov
On 3/16/07, Brian Mattern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:


  * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart
 
  Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book
  keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for
  this one was.

 This is only really an issue when changing themes. So, maybe only the
 theme dialog needs to re-open and only after a restart due to the theme
 being changed?

Fonts too, iirc.


 rephorm


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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Ravenlock
On 03/16/2007 08:10, Brian Mattern wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 Hello,

 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?

 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)

 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?
 
 Right now the winlist only shows windows on the current desktop. I think
 the idea with this was to have it show windows in other desktops also,
 but group them somehow. The details were never really fleshed out,
 though.

The winlist can presently view windows from other desks and screens 
(configurable).  But grouped is what ppl are looking for?  Got it. 
Though, imho, I think its best the way it is.  Ordered in a most 
recently used fashion.  Imho, if you want groups and across multiple 
desks/screens... you should be using the clientlist at that point.

Thanks for clarifying.  :)

 
 
 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart

 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.
 
 This is only really an issue when changing themes. So, maybe only the
 theme dialog needs to re-open and only after a restart due to the theme
 being changed?

Ah, yes.  A theme change.  I see now.  Is a restart the only way to 
realize a theme change?

 
 Alternatively, we could try to implement theme switches without
 requiring a restart. But, that's probably more trouble than its worth.
 
 rephorm
 
 
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Ravenlock

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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread David Seikel
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:59:59 +0200 Luchezar Petkov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 3/16/07, Brian Mattern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 
 
   * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a
   restart
  
   Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book
   keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation
   for this one was.
 
  This is only really an issue when changing themes. So, maybe only
  the theme dialog needs to re-open and only after a restart due to
  the theme being changed?
 
 Fonts too, iirc.

And FDO icon themes.


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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread David Seikel
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:00:49 -0500 Ravenlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On 03/16/2007 08:10, Brian Mattern wrote:
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 
  * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a
  restart
 
  Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
  keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation
  for this one was.
  
  This is only really an issue when changing themes. So, maybe only
  the theme dialog needs to re-open and only after a restart due to
  the theme being changed?
 
 Ah, yes.  A theme change.  I see now.  Is a restart the only way to 
 realize a theme change?
 
  
  Alternatively, we could try to implement theme switches without
  requiring a restart. But, that's probably more trouble than its
  worth.

For themes, fonts, and icon themes it was much easier to just restart E.

Possibly we are just being lazy.


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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Hisham Mardam Bey
On 3/16/07, Ravenlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart

 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for
 this one was.


Raster and I have discussed this, and from what I can recall, we want
this to work for mainly configuration dialogs, EFM windows, and things
like the icon editor (and any other internal windows or
mini-applications that might come up).

As EFM grows and becomes more usable, a restart to E, and killing all
of those windows, is not going to be a very user-friendly thing. We
realized the complexity involved with such a feature, but this is
where we decide how detailed we want it to be. Keeping a list of the
open windows is one thing, and restoring those open windows to their
previous state (for example, scrolling an ilist to a certain item, or
clicking certain check buttons etc.) is something completely different
and almost impossible.

The other alternative, as mentioned, would be to propagate theme
changes without a restart. We have also discussed this issue before,
and the initial thought was that it was indeed quite complex as it
would require all sorts of recalculations, widget creation,
re-swallowing, etc. It is not really worth the hassle.

So, if you would really like to work on this, it would be a good idea
to find a way to re-open all the internal windows with their geometry
information for now. Something to think about is EFM (it keeps the
directory being browsed in its window information by the way), and how
to tie an open window to, perhaps (and I am not sure of this is the
best way), a function that you can use to re-open it.

I think we can (should) further discuss this and come up with the best
way to do this.

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+9613609386
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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Brian Mattern
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 06:44:41PM +0200, Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
 The other alternative, as mentioned, would be to propagate theme
 changes without a restart. We have also discussed this issue before,
 and the initial thought was that it was indeed quite complex as it
 would require all sorts of recalculations, widget creation,
 re-swallowing, etc. It is not really worth the hassle.

Edje will now automatically reswallow any swallows when you call
edje_object_file_set(). So, it shoudl just be a matter of running
through edje objects, resetting files and resending signals to get to
the current state of the widget.

Setting font classes *shouldn't* require rebuilding the objects, so I'm
not sure why the font dialog triggers a restart at the moment.

Anyway, I really think that this is the way to go. Since *most* layout
is handled by edje, it will be recalculated automatically as the file is
loaded and the swallows are reswallowed. Widgets that do custom layout
typically have a configure type call that recalcs layout. So, it would
probably just be a matter of adding a call to each widget to re-send the
state signals.

I think this would be a cleaner route than tracking internal dialogs and
re-showing them. As more functionality is added to e, restarting will
become more and more of a cost (dbus connections resetting, having to
re-query daemon state, etc)...

rephorm


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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 ...
 ...
 I think this would be a cleaner route than tracking internal
 dialogs and re-showing them. As more functionality is added to e,
 restarting will become more and more of a cost (dbus connections
 resetting, having to re-query daemon state, etc)...
 
 rephorm

A nice example of a point that one should keep in mind
for all things.

   jose.



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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Eric Schuele
On 03/16/2007 07:59, Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:17:27AM -0500, Ravenlock wrote:
 Hello,

 Can someone please elaborate on these items for me?

 * winlist could divide windows up into blocks - sub-lists within a 
 container per desktop (with stick windows considered to live on the 
 current desk when winlist starts)

 Is it just that someone wanted the windows grouped within the winlist 
 (similar to how the clientlist is now)?

 Also, how about this one:

 * desktop flip animations need to allow control over accel/decel and 
 have a better ui - add wobble and controls etc. etc.

 Seems to me this is done?  There are controls for type of animation and 
 its speed, via Config - screen - virtual desktop.  Is that not what 
 this item is referring to?  I don't understand wobble.  That a new 
 transistion type?
 The current settings are very basic. You are only able to set the
 animation type and the speed, but you can't set the
 acceleration/decelleration manually.
 What wobble is can you see, when you open the file manager. The preview
 images are moving a bit when they are showed - they are wobbling. :)

hehe... a wobble transistion.  cool.  you think each window individually 
should wobble or the entire desktop?

As far as accel/decel... imho doesn't seem like much opportunity to 
accelerate and decelerate.  I mean how long do you really want it to 
take to transition from one desk to another?  It would be a cool effect, 
but from a usability stand point... I'm trying to get to that other 
desktop.  I can't wait 3-5 seconds.  I want there now.  Just my opinion.

Either way... how would you envision the accel/decel?  Would you create 
a gui that allowed a selection between say slow/med/fast 
acceleration/deceleration?  or a short/med/long acceleration?  or some 
discrete numeric value?  pix/sec/sec?  Do you understand my question?

 
 And finally this one:

 * internal windows (config dialogs, etc) should re-open after a restart

 Just wondering *why* this is desired.  Seems like a lot of book 
 keeping... for little value.  Just wondering what the motivation for 
 this one was.
 Try to change the theme. You will notice that the theme selection dialog
 is closed when the new theme is applied. Even every other e17 internal
 dialog. You can also try enlightenment-restart from the menu.

Theme change.  Got it.

 
 Thanks.  :)

 -- 
 Regards,
 Ravenlock
 Greets,
 Brian
 
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-- 
Regards,
Eric

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Re: [E-devel] TODO item(s) need clarification.....

2007-03-16 Thread Brian Mattern
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:10:56AM -0500, Eric Schuele wrote:
 hehe... a wobble transistion.  cool.  you think each window individually 
 should wobble or the entire desktop?

More like when you switch desktops, the old desktop's windows immediately
disappear, and the new desktop's windows appear, but wobble for a
second. 

However, I don't see how this would be possible without a compositor.

While on the topic of desktop transitions does anyone else notice that
e17's seem pretty slow? they get choppy when i have large and/or many
windows (on an athlon 64 3000+). e16 handled sliding windows beautifully
on an 800mhz box...

rephorm


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