Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
On 02/04/2015 12:40 AM, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: From: Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. But how long should that realistically take? The stall happens on each sub-menu in turn, so if this is what's happening, it can't be loading more than about 20 entries to display. On the D810, where I am now, if I click on the desktop and hover on Applications Accessories, it takes 2sec to load the list. If I then slide down from Accessories to Other, (a) it halts on the way because it is momentarily trying to load each menu it passes over, and eventually clogs up at Office, so my cursor is over Other while it loads and then discards Office, and finally moves onto loading Other. Total time taken from the start to get the Other list up is 5sec. While not all that modern, my every-day use laptop has 8 cores What's a core, Mommy? :-) I just have a single CPU on this machine, and 2Gb memory, running Xubuntu 14.04 and e17. Apart from the odd slowdown like this, it's fine. (fastest currently shows 3160 MHz) and some 8GB of memory. If that's not enough to handle something as simple as a user interface, there must be something wrong somewhere. That's why i was wondering: do i just have something horribly misconfigured? From what David had to say about the FDO specs, you're not doing anything wrong. The system is. Do the designers and others working on e have access to formal usability testing which could provide hard measurements? ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
On 02/04/2015 12:02 AM, David Seikel wrote: [snip] The FreeDesktop.Org (FDO) specifications for how to deal with menus of applications is hideously and overly complex crap. Linux desktop systems have to deal with that. It's hard to cache as well, new applications can be added at any time with no reboot needed. The Enlightenment implementation leaves a lot to be desired. Thank you very much...I did suspect something like this, but without any knowledge of the background I wasn't willing to point a finger :-) On the other hand, there appears to be some bugs with the Enlightenment menu system. This sort of freeze / stall shouldn't happen outside of the Applications menu, coz only that menu relies on FDO crap. In particular I often see problems with the Settings menu, sometimes it never shows, I have to put the menu away and try again. I can see that the requirement to be able to add and remove from the menu via the GUI at any time does place demands on the system. One key problem is clearly timing: if you slide your cursor down a vertical menu, not stopping or even pausing until you get to the item you want, clearly there should be no action by the system except to highlight each item as you pass over it. But what speed/rate does not stopping or even pausing actually mean? The designer has to make some guess at that, especially because different people will have different concepts of speed, and it also has to cater for people who are actually browsing, and *want* each submenu to appear as they flick down the list. A dynamically-loading system, which has to read and re-read a config file every time, simply isn't going to hack it. The cleverer and cleverer you make the interface, the more cycles and memory it consumes. Ain't no way around that that I know...so I just put up with it: I *like* e17 now that I've got used to it. It has fewer stupidities than most of the other interfaces I have used :-) ///Peter ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
On 02/04/2015 03:57 AM, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: Hello! You're experiencing the follow issue: https://www.mail-archive.com/enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg73996.html I posted at E-Devel mail list but, no one answered... :( Video Bug Report: http://youtu.be/5LSSj3mmRxA - long http://youtu.be/af50m9UVszk - short That's definitely a bug. ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
I do not see similar problems when using WindowMaker, Unity with `classicmenu-indicator`, neither KDE. Only Enlightenment have this specific problem... On 3 February 2015 at 19:40, Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie wrote: On 02/03/2015 01:23 AM, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: Hi, This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. [snip] You Are Not Alone™ :-) This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. As distinct from systems (Windows? Mac?) where the whole menu content is preloaded at login, and sits there in an array in memory taking up space all the time -- but providing a faster response. But this is just my deduction based on observation, so it's a hypotheses for which I have no proof. So, what appears to happen, is that the menu display is temporarily frozen. Sometimes with all the flickering and bouncing and popping-up and popping-down that goes on in modern decorated menus, the script gets out of whack and loses control of where it's supposed to be; or there is a bug or other problem like a memory leak. I suspect this doesn't happen on really fast modern machines. I have no idea what the devs use, but they are probably better equipped than my old Dell Latitude D810. I have a bunch of even older D610s that I need to resuscitate from the kerlutches of Windows by installing Lubuntu for some graduate students, and it would be nice to give them a good interface like e17...so I will test one of the machines this week and see if it copes. ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
Hello! You're experiencing the follow issue: https://www.mail-archive.com/enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg73996.html I posted at E-Devel mail list but, no one answered... :( Video Bug Report: http://youtu.be/5LSSj3mmRxA - long http://youtu.be/af50m9UVszk - short Cheers! Thiago On 2 February 2015 at 23:23, Conrad Hill-Knight iestynap...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. I see the menu, and select, for example, Applications. This displays the next sub-menu as expected, but then when i hover the cursor over one of the entries, although it is highlighted, the next level sub-menu doesn't appear. Sometimes by moving the cursor to hover over a different choice, that sub-menu appears, and then I can go back to the one i wanted. Other times, no matter where i move the cursor, the original choice remains highlighted. And sometimes, merely wiggling the cursor will wake up the menu and display the correct entry. Occasionally nothing will work, short of clicking on the desktop again to close the menu altogether and starting over. So, what appears to happen, is that the menu display is temporarily frozen. Nothing else is, the cursor moves fine, other windows continue to display changes. It's just the menu, and i can't select what i was planning to, up to 20s or so. It doesn't happen every time, and once a stall has been cleared it doesn't usually happen again for a while. And it's not just the Applications menu, it's anything selected off the main one (Settings, System, etc.). Any ideas? -Conrad. -- Whenever and wherever you want. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
Hi! I am experiencing the same effect, also if opening the menu from the panel. On 03.02.2015 02:23, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. I see the menu, and select, for example, Applications. This displays the next sub-menu as expected, but then when i hover the cursor over one of the entries, although it is highlighted, the next level sub-menu doesn't appear. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
On 02/03/2015 01:23 AM, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: Hi, This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. [snip] You Are Not Alone™ :-) This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. As distinct from systems (Windows? Mac?) where the whole menu content is preloaded at login, and sits there in an array in memory taking up space all the time -- but providing a faster response. But this is just my deduction based on observation, so it's a hypotheses for which I have no proof. So, what appears to happen, is that the menu display is temporarily frozen. Sometimes with all the flickering and bouncing and popping-up and popping-down that goes on in modern decorated menus, the script gets out of whack and loses control of where it's supposed to be; or there is a bug or other problem like a memory leak. I suspect this doesn't happen on really fast modern machines. I have no idea what the devs use, but they are probably better equipped than my old Dell Latitude D810. I have a bunch of even older D610s that I need to resuscitate from the kerlutches of Windows by installing Lubuntu for some graduate students, and it would be nice to give them a good interface like e17...so I will test one of the machines this week and see if it copes. ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
Wow, I've never noticed this (or didn't wanted to?) I've noticed that when I highligh a menu and the submenu doesn't appear, if I move the cursor out of the menu and put it again IN THE SAME highlighted menu, the submenu still doesn't appear. It does if I select another submenu. +1 for 'you are (not) alone' :P 2015-02-03 18:40 GMT-03:00 Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie: On 02/03/2015 01:23 AM, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: Hi, This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. [snip] You Are Not Alone™ :-) This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. As distinct from systems (Windows? Mac?) where the whole menu content is preloaded at login, and sits there in an array in memory taking up space all the time -- but providing a faster response. But this is just my deduction based on observation, so it's a hypotheses for which I have no proof. So, what appears to happen, is that the menu display is temporarily frozen. Sometimes with all the flickering and bouncing and popping-up and popping-down that goes on in modern decorated menus, the script gets out of whack and loses control of where it's supposed to be; or there is a bug or other problem like a memory leak. I suspect this doesn't happen on really fast modern machines. I have no idea what the devs use, but they are probably better equipped than my old Dell Latitude D810. I have a bunch of even older D610s that I need to resuscitate from the kerlutches of Windows by installing Lubuntu for some graduate students, and it would be nice to give them a good interface like e17...so I will test one of the machines this week and see if it copes. ///Peter -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- Wido -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
From: Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. But how long should that realistically take? The stall happens on each sub-menu in turn, so if this is what's happening, it can't be loading more than about 20 entries to display. That said, if i do take the time to open up each and every sub-menu (several seconds delay for each one), the next time they're opened they appear instantly. For a little while, anyway... After some indeterminate amount of time (hours?) the menus begin to stall again, with a longer pause the longer i wait to open a given menu. I suspect this doesn't happen on really fast modern machines. While not all that modern, my every-day use laptop has 8 cores (fastest currently shows 3160 MHz) and some 8GB of memory. If that's not enough to handle something as simple as a user interface, there must be something wrong somewhere. That's why i was wondering: do i just have something horribly misconfigured? -Conrad. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] menus stalling when trying to select them
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 19:51:50 -0300 Wido wido...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, I've never noticed this (or didn't wanted to?) I've noticed that when I highligh a menu and the submenu doesn't appear, if I move the cursor out of the menu and put it again IN THE SAME highlighted menu, the submenu still doesn't appear. It does if I select another submenu. +1 for 'you are (not) alone' :P 2015-02-03 18:40 GMT-03:00 Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie: On 02/03/2015 01:23 AM, Conrad Hill-Knight wrote: Hi, This is something that's been bothering me for a while, and i think i just have something misconfigured. When i left-click on the desktop to bring up the main enlightenment menu, sometimes (often, actually) it stalls. [snip] You Are Not Alone™ :-) This is a very common occurrence in all Linux interfaces I have used. I *believe* it's because the loading of entry names, icons, paths, etc is done at the time your cursor hovers on the menu (aka in real time, just-in-time, etc), and it take a lot of cycles to retrieve and present the data. The FreeDesktop.Org (FDO) specifications for how to deal with menus of applications is hideously and overly complex crap. Linux desktop systems have to deal with that. It's hard to cache as well, new applications can be added at any time with no reboot needed. The Enlightenment implementation leaves a lot to be desired. On the other hand, there appears to be some bugs with the Enlightenment menu system. This sort of freeze / stall shouldn't happen outside of the Applications menu, coz only that menu relies on FDO crap. In particular I often see problems with the Settings menu, sometimes it never shows, I have to put the menu away and try again. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
