[EVDL] EVLN: CARB Publishes EV Driver Dashboard Survey Results
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/24/california-publishes-results-ev-survey/
California Publishes Results Of EV Survey
June 24th, 2014 by Christopher DeMorro
[image
http://c1cleantechnicacom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2014/06/carb-ev-study.png
CARB EV study
]
Without a doubt, California is the hub of America’s new found love of the
electric car. More EVs are sold in the Golden State than the rest of the
country combined, though the love of electric cars has been spreading
eastward rapidly.
California wants to get even more EVs on the roads though, and to do that
they need more information. Green Car Congress reports that the California
Air Resource Board (CARB) has put the results of its EV Driver Dashboard
survey on its website for policy makers and EV advocates to access.
The data asked buyers of EVs from 2012 and up a number of questions
regarding why they bought their electric or hybrid vehicle, what their
demographic was, and how aware they were of special programs and rebates
offered by the state and power companies. The results can be filtered in a
variety of ways that lets advocates for electric vehicles make their points
more effectively.
Among the findings is that state tax rebates and incentives factor heavily
into the purchase of green cars for many users, and the Federal tax rebate
has undoubtedly had a profound effect on EV sales. Of course we could have
told you that, and so could Norway, which has seen EVs rocket to the top of
the monthly sales charts. But after they get the EVs, these owners continue
to enjoy massive fuel savings, with 37% saying that was the most important
factor in their purchase. Surprisingly, only about 21% of respondents were
in it for the environmental benefits, reinforcing the notion that cash
speaks louder than preachy environmentalism.
[© cleantechnica.com]
...
http://energycenter.org/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/survey-dashboard
EV Driver Survey Dashboard
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1092900_california-puts-its-electric-car-owner-survey-info-online
California Puts Its Electric-Car Owner Survey Info Online
By Stephen Edelstein Jun 24, 2014
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http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/06/ev_fest_will_show_off_electric.html
EV Fest show off @Pioneer Courthouse Square 7/5 9a-5p Portland, OR
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1092809_renewable-energy-wont-cause-electric-utility-death-spiral-study
EVs on Renewable Energy Won't Cause Electric Utility 'Death Spiral'
http://www.thetowntalk.com/viewart/20140622/NEWS01/140622010/Kinder-approves-use-golf-carts-town-streets-
Kinder, LA approves use of e-golf-carts 25mph-electrics in town
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201406200627KRTRIB__BUSNEWS_3428_51015-1params=timestamp||US;AAticker=AA
Pitt, Alcoa researchers testing new non-rare-earth e-motor magnets
http://kxan.com/2014/06/24/electric-car-only-parking-spaces-upset-some-austinites/
TX ice drivers ticked, $25 Austin Energy card good for 6mo of EVSE use
+
EVLN: Owner Sez ‘Yes’ You Can Tow With a Tesla-S EV! (video)
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[EVDL] EVLN: Owner Sez ‘Yes’ You Can Tow With a Tesla-S EV! (video)
'May be illegal if your area doesn't allow towing using your EV' http://transportevolved.com/2014/06/24/can-tow-tesla-model-s-one-owner-answers-emphatic-yes/ Can You Tow With a Tesla Model S? One Owner Answers With an Emphatic ‘Yes’ June 24, 2014 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield [images http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.11.52.png Towing with a Tesla Model S? No problem! (Screenshot via YouTube) http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.14.20.png The Torklift Central Model S EcoHitch adds a tow hitch to your Model S. http://img.youtube.com/vi/7QM1o_0nyqQ/maxresdefault.jpg video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QM1o_0nyqQ#t=16 Tesla Model S: Superb Towing Vehicle! Total of 258 Miles Round Trip. Flawless! Teslarati.com KmanAuto· Jun 23, 2014 So, finally got to do a long distance tow with my Model S. All I can say is, Superb Towing ability, Incredible Handling, Decent Power Consumption, Only Using a Fraction of the max power, and was STILL able to blast from Ricers at a Stop Light!!! ] One of the criticisms of mainstream electric cars like the Nissan LEAF, Chevrolet Volt and Tesla Model S is that they’re not set up at the factory to tow. In some markets like Europe, towing with your electric car might even be illegal if your car’s manufacturer didn’t put the car through the correct type approval tests when preparing it for market. Ask most electric automakers too, and they’re likely to tell you that towing with your electric car isn’t advised and may even invalidate your warranty. But in other parts of the world, putting a tow hitch on your electric car isn’t a problem, provided you don’t exceed the bounds of common sense. So when we heard about a Tesla Model S owner who had pulled a small trailer containing a generator 129 miles without a second thought, we had to check it out. Enter well-known YouTuber and Tesla Model S owner KmanAuto, who decided to take a generator he’d recently sold to its new owner by towing it behind his 60 kilowatt-hour Tesla Model S. Back in May, he purchased a specialist Eco Hitch from Washington-based Torklift Central. Available for a wide range of plug-in cars, including the Tesla Model S, the EcoHitch gives the Tesla Model S basic towing functionality in the U.S., despite the fact the car was never originally intended for that purpose. Securely strapped to a small hobby trailer at the back of his Model S, KmanAuto towed his Generator the 129 miles from his Wisconsin home to the trailer’s new owner, filming the process along the way. Although the tall generator wasn’t exactly what we’d call aerodynamic, it more than fell within the 2,000/200 pound towing capacity of the Torklift Central Ecohitch, and didn’t seem to have much of a detrimental effect on the Model S driving experience. “Pulled a generator I sold 129 Miles one way, and then returned home another 129 miles a few days later,” he posted in the TelsaMotorsClub Forum yesterday. “All I can say at this point, is that I cannot wait until I get a Teardrop camper!!! That will be awesome!” As for range? According to the video, Tesla Model S energy efficiency averaged around 372 watt-hours per mile while towing the generator at highway speed, due to the increased drag caused by pulling the trailer along. Without the generator on board but the trailer attached, the efficiency increased a little, but still wasn’t quite as good as stock Tesla Model S efficiency. KManAuto says there’s no notable difference in acceleration or performance when towing, but concedes that for this particular trip the generator and tiny trailer weren’t exactly hugely taxing on the powerful Model S. Next, he says, is a larger, more substantial trailer. Here at Transport Evolved we’d like to remind you that towing with your electric car will most certainly affect your car’s range per charge, and may be illegal if your car hasn’t been officially approved by the necessary authorities as capable of towing. If you want to tow with your electric car, it’s up to you to check local laws and your electric car’s warranty before you make any modifications to your car. [© transportevolved.com] For all EVLN posts use: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=evlnsort=date http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/06/ev_fest_will_show_off_electric.html EV Fest show off @Pioneer Courthouse Square 7/5 9a-5p Portland, OR http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1092809_renewable-energy-wont-cause-electric-utility-death-spiral-study EVs on Renewable Energy Won't Cause Electric Utility 'Death Spiral' http://www.thetowntalk.com/viewart/20140622/NEWS01/140622010/Kinder-approves-use-golf-carts-town-streets- Kinder, LA approves use of e-golf-carts 25mph-electrics in town
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker. They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are in are the ones with the best state incentives. --Rick On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: I am interested in Solarcity. They offer a way for people with less funds and credit to get solar on their house. But, I have not figured out quite how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves in vis a vis their utility and local government. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV potential - Postal Service and 7 MPG average
On 06/29/2014 03:57 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: It appears to me that EVs have not yet been a success in postal delivery. I can't understand why not. Anyone with other (I hope more positive) information please post it. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator Our local post office is in a small-ish building built in the 1960's on a very tight lot. At the end of the day the 25 or so jeeps get crammed into every corner of the parking lot. I have to wonder if part of the problem is simply the investment that would be needed in installing 25 charging stations and a probable service upgrade for the building. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
In Colorado, they only work with one of the utilities here (the one with some minimal incentives). They typically won't work with any of the other utilities that don't offer incentives, or who have a limited pool of incentives. We do a lot of work with the other utilities, consequently :) I have mixed feelings about them. Opening up access to solar to people without the up front cash is good... but the number of local companies that have gone under due to low cost leases being offered by solar city (and a few others), and the number of orphaned PV systems with no warrantee any more is not good. Z On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker. They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are in are the ones with the best state incentives. --Rick On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: I am interested in Solarcity. They offer a way for people with less funds and credit to get solar on their house. But, I have not figured out quite how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves in vis a vis their utility and local government. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/cad8c5d0/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VHS vs Betamax automakers' chose different paths
According to AFDC, there are only 12 publicly available hydrogen refueling stations in the U.S. They are in 3 states (California, South Carolina, and Connecticut). Most of the 12 are in California. http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html Mike On June 29, 2014 9:16:56 AM MDT, Dennis Miles via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Peri, some of us read and comprehend your postings, I agree with you. Hydrogen has a long tail pipe with a diameter twice as large as electricity from the utility has and wastes 50% of the solar PV electric produced if it used to form hydrogen, compared to other uses for the electric power. The REAL purpose for fuel cell development vehicles is the SEVEN TIMES the credit, for EV, toward being allowed to sell gas (ICE) cars. (So called Compliance Cars). The critical designating point is their only being leased, not sold, and only in Southern California, where there are four Hydrogen retailers, of the, only about 40, in the remainder, of the USA. (But, the manufacturers are not leasing in any other states...) *Dennis Lee Miles * *Director **E.V.T.I. Inc.* *E-Mail:* *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* evprofes...@evprofessor.com *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913* Dade City, Florida 33523 USA On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: This is another oblivious report on hydrogen as a fuel. I sent a comment to the editor but could not figure out how to post a comment for the article (logging into the forum does not allow you to post comments for an article). Here's what I posted: In the article Global automakers split on 'green car' strategy, By AFP on June 19, 2014, the author has committed a terrible disservice to your readers in his description of hydrogen as a fuel. He says that using hydrogen will produce nothing more harmful than water. No mention whatsoever is made of where hydrogen comes from. It must either come from cracking water, which takes a tremendous amount of energy which, in turn, must come from somewhere. Or it comes from natural gas or other petroleum based fuels which must be mined and refined with all the current existing problems and harmful byproducts. Hydrogen as a fuel can only be a short term solution. If a large percentage of vehicles were to use hydrogen, the environmental and monetary costs would be visible to the public and prohibitive. Please be more responsible in your reporting! Thanks. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Owner Sez ‘Yes’ You Can Tow With a Tesla-S EV! (video)
I think that Willie (on this list) has been towing a trailer with his Tesla Model S for some time. I read his postings on some of the trips. I think it was late last year. I find the differences between the U.S. and Europe kind of amusing. I had an email discussion about my conversion with someone from Europe. He was asking what approvals I had to get on the design. I explained that in my state, you could do anything you wanted with your car unless it is specifically illegal. He was shocked. Mike On June 30, 2014 2:20:09 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: 'May be illegal if your area doesn't allow towing using your EV' http://transportevolved.com/2014/06/24/can-tow-tesla-model-s-one-owner-answers-emphatic-yes/ Can You Tow With a Tesla Model S? One Owner Answers With an Emphatic ‘Yes’ June 24, 2014 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield [images http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.11.52.png Towing with a Tesla Model S? No problem! (Screenshot via YouTube) http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.14.20.png The Torklift Central Model S EcoHitch adds a tow hitch to your Model S. http://img.youtube.com/vi/7QM1o_0nyqQ/maxresdefault.jpg video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QM1o_0nyqQ#t=16 Tesla Model S: Superb Towing Vehicle! Total of 258 Miles Round Trip. Flawless! Teslarati.com KmanAuto· Jun 23, 2014 So, finally got to do a long distance tow with my Model S. All I can say is, Superb Towing ability, Incredible Handling, Decent Power Consumption, Only Using a Fraction of the max power, and was STILL able to blast from Ricers at a Stop Light!!! ] One of the criticisms of mainstream electric cars like the Nissan LEAF, Chevrolet Volt and Tesla Model S is that they’re not set up at the factory to tow. In some markets like Europe, towing with your electric car might even be illegal if your car’s manufacturer didn’t put the car through the correct type approval tests when preparing it for market. Ask most electric automakers too, and they’re likely to tell you that towing with your electric car isn’t advised and may even invalidate your warranty. But in other parts of the world, putting a tow hitch on your electric car isn’t a problem, provided you don’t exceed the bounds of common sense. So when we heard about a Tesla Model S owner who had pulled a small trailer containing a generator 129 miles without a second thought, we had to check it out. Enter well-known YouTuber and Tesla Model S owner KmanAuto, who decided to take a generator he’d recently sold to its new owner by towing it behind his 60 kilowatt-hour Tesla Model S. Back in May, he purchased a specialist Eco Hitch from Washington-based Torklift Central. Available for a wide range of plug-in cars, including the Tesla Model S, the EcoHitch gives the Tesla Model S basic towing functionality in the U.S., despite the fact the car was never originally intended for that purpose. Securely strapped to a small hobby trailer at the back of his Model S, KmanAuto towed his Generator the 129 miles from his Wisconsin home to the trailer’s new owner, filming the process along the way. Although the tall generator wasn’t exactly what we’d call aerodynamic, it more than fell within the 2,000/200 pound towing capacity of the Torklift Central Ecohitch, and didn’t seem to have much of a detrimental effect on the Model S driving experience. “Pulled a generator I sold 129 Miles one way, and then returned home another 129 miles a few days later,” he posted in the TelsaMotorsClub Forum yesterday. “All I can say at this point, is that I cannot wait until I get a Teardrop camper!!! That will be awesome!” As for range? According to the video, Tesla Model S energy efficiency averaged around 372 watt-hours per mile while towing the generator at highway speed, due to the increased drag caused by pulling the trailer along. Without the generator on board but the trailer attached, the efficiency increased a little, but still wasn’t quite as good as stock Tesla Model S efficiency. KManAuto says there’s no notable difference in acceleration or performance when towing, but concedes that for this particular trip the generator and tiny trailer weren’t exactly hugely taxing on the powerful Model S. Next, he says, is a larger, more substantial trailer. Here at Transport Evolved we’d like to remind you that towing with your electric car will most certainly affect your car’s range per charge, and may be illegal if your car hasn’t been officially approved by the necessary authorities as capable of towing. If you want to tow with your electric car, it’s up to you to check local laws and your electric car’s warranty before you make any modifications to your car. [© transportevolved.com] For all EVLN posts use: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=evlnsort=date
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
I am sympathetic to the local proprietor thing, I go to the market, buy at the little hardware store, the local coffee shop. But I think many installers are less than efficient (there is a national effort to reduce soft costs). Why does it take a week and 5 trips by the main crew and a number of other visits to make a straightforward install happen? I got very good workmanship, but I was really scratching my head after 3 days. I think dealing with the utilities adds a layer that the installer has to manage - which is not subject to competition. Does Duke power care if the installer has to have two on staff to call them and write emails? Maybe Solarcity and other trickier methods can be the competition to drive the cost down. If a local supplier is not being a good competitor then maybe they should not be as successful as they are now. On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com wrote: In Colorado, they only work with one of the utilities here (the one with some minimal incentives). They typically won't work with any of the other utilities that don't offer incentives, or who have a limited pool of incentives. We do a lot of work with the other utilities, consequently :) I have mixed feelings about them. Opening up access to solar to people without the up front cash is good... but the number of local companies that have gone under due to low cost leases being offered by solar city (and a few others), and the number of orphaned PV systems with no warrantee any more is not good. Z On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker. They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are in are the ones with the best state incentives. --Rick On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: I am interested in Solarcity. They offer a way for people with less funds and credit to get solar on their house. But, I have not figured out quite how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves in vis a vis their utility and local government. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/e7f46299/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
Actually, Solar City is mostly just a marketing, and financing system. They then hire local companies to do the installations according to their specs. Yes, they demand efficiency from those local companies, and that is where the weeding out happens I guess. Similar to my experience with Geothermal. I got estimates from $28k to $45k for the same job. And turns out the real pros were the $28k and the other estimates were from me too contractors jumping on the bandwagon. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via EV Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:14 AM To: Zeke Yewdall Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland I am sympathetic to the local proprietor thing, I go to the market, buy at the little hardware store, the local coffee shop. But I think many installers are less than efficient (there is a national effort to reduce soft costs). Why does it take a week and 5 trips by the main crew and a number of other visits to make a straightforward install happen? I got very good workmanship, but I was really scratching my head after 3 days. I think dealing with the utilities adds a layer that the installer has to manage - which is not subject to competition. Does Duke power care if the installer has to have two on staff to call them and write emails? Maybe Solarcity and other trickier methods can be the competition to drive the cost down. If a local supplier is not being a good competitor then maybe they should not be as successful as they are now. On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com wrote: In Colorado, they only work with one of the utilities here (the one with some minimal incentives). They typically won't work with any of the other utilities that don't offer incentives, or who have a limited pool of incentives. We do a lot of work with the other utilities, consequently :) I have mixed feelings about them. Opening up access to solar to people without the up front cash is good... but the number of local companies that have gone under due to low cost leases being offered by solar city (and a few others), and the number of orphaned PV systems with no warrantee any more is not good. Z On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker. They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are in are the ones with the best state incentives. --Rick On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: I am interested in Solarcity. They offer a way for people with less funds and credit to get solar on their house. But, I have not figured out quite how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves in vis a vis their utility and local government. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/e7f462 99/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV potential - Postal Service and 7 MPG average
Rick Beebe via EV wrote: On 06/29/2014 03:57 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: It appears to me that EVs have not yet been a success in postal delivery. I can't understand why not. Anyone with other (I hope more positive) information please post it. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator Our local post office is in a small-ish building built in the 1960's on a very tight lot. At the end of the day the 25 or so jeeps get crammed into every corner of the parking lot. I have to wonder if part of the problem is simply the investment that would be needed in installing 25 charging stations and a probable service upgrade for the building. Our Post Office in Sartell MN is also a small building on a tiny lot, which is full of postal vehicles at night. But, there are 120vac outlets next to each one. They were installed for the electric block heaters, needed to insure that they will start in the morning when it's -20 deg.F outside. These outlets would be more than adequate to recharge their fleet overnight if they were EVs. After all, they'd have have close to 15 hours a day to charge. -- The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing one that is just good enough. -- Eric S. Raymond -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
Not true here. Every one involved in my installation was a SolarCity employee. That said, they've been growing so fast that they have a hard time hiring enough people so maybe in some places they are subcontracting the installation out. There are 20 installer/electrician jobs on their website right now. I do derive a great deal of satisfaction charging an PHEV and BEV and still getting a $0 electric bill. --Rick On 06/30/2014 11:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Actually, Solar City is mostly just a marketing, and financing system. They then hire local companies to do the installations according to their specs. Yes, they demand efficiency from those local companies, and that is where the weeding out happens I guess. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
Well, Solarcity is buying a panel manufacturer. In true Musk form, he is going to push PV as hard as he can - partly to fuel Tesla cars. On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Actually, Solar City is mostly just a marketing, and financing system. They then hire local companies to do the installations according to their specs. Yes, they demand efficiency from those local companies, and that is where the weeding out happens I guess. Similar to my experience with Geothermal. I got estimates from $28k to $45k for the same job. And turns out the real pros were the $28k and the other estimates were from me too contractors jumping on the bandwagon. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via EV Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:14 AM To: Zeke Yewdall Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland I am sympathetic to the local proprietor thing, I go to the market, buy at the little hardware store, the local coffee shop. But I think many installers are less than efficient (there is a national effort to reduce soft costs). Why does it take a week and 5 trips by the main crew and a number of other visits to make a straightforward install happen? I got very good workmanship, but I was really scratching my head after 3 days. I think dealing with the utilities adds a layer that the installer has to manage - which is not subject to competition. Does Duke power care if the installer has to have two on staff to call them and write emails? Maybe Solarcity and other trickier methods can be the competition to drive the cost down. If a local supplier is not being a good competitor then maybe they should not be as successful as they are now. On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com wrote: In Colorado, they only work with one of the utilities here (the one with some minimal incentives). They typically won't work with any of the other utilities that don't offer incentives, or who have a limited pool of incentives. We do a lot of work with the other utilities, consequently :) I have mixed feelings about them. Opening up access to solar to people without the up front cash is good... but the number of local companies that have gone under due to low cost leases being offered by solar city (and a few others), and the number of orphaned PV systems with no warrantee any more is not good. Z On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker. They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are in are the ones with the best state incentives. --Rick On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: I am interested in Solarcity. They offer a way for people with less funds and credit to get solar on their house. But, I have not figured out quite how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves in vis a vis their utility and local government. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/e7f462 99/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
Do you really get a $0 utility bills? According to my utility Duke Progess you should be ashamed of your self hanging infrastructure costs on poor people and poor old Duke. I use 0 net power and they bill me for a couple bits less than $20 every month. For electric service, and various surcharges - all hidden from view in that one line item. On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not true here. Every one involved in my installation was a SolarCity employee. That said, they've been growing so fast that they have a hard time hiring enough people so maybe in some places they are subcontracting the installation out. There are 20 installer/electrician jobs on their website right now. I do derive a great deal of satisfaction charging an PHEV and BEV and still getting a $0 electric bill. --Rick On 06/30/2014 11:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Actually, Solar City is mostly just a marketing, and financing system. They then hire local companies to do the installations according to their specs. Yes, they demand efficiency from those local companies, and that is where the weeding out happens I guess. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/55e607b9/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
On Mon Jun 30 09:44:00 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said: I use 0 net power and they bill me for a couple bits less than $20 every month. For electric service, and various surcharges - all hidden from view in that one line item. There there are those lucky enough to have PSE (Puget Sound Energy). I have a 7KW array to help charge my truck. I haven't received ANY bill, or statement, or anything in almost 3 months now. Ever since they updated their billing system... (Yes, I've contacted them, and No, they haven't figured out what's wrong yet.) -- Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fw: 3d printing auto body
jerry freedomev via EV wrote: lithiums... BMS... composites...finally makes long range EVs viable at a reasonable cost. The FreedomEV has the weight, space, and capacity for 450-500 mile range if I wanted to... But probably stick with under 150 miles to save weight, cost... I agree. Just because you *can* get a 400 mile range doesn't mean you should. For one thing, doubling the range doubles the cost of your batteries. It also lowers efficiency, since you'll be carrying around twice the battery weight. If you only need 100 mile range, it makes more sense to size your pack for a 100 mile range (plus a reasonable safety margin). But I do like the idea of a re-sizable pack. The Twike EV had 3 battery packs. You could install one, two, or three depending on how much range you needed. It should be straightforward to design your EV to accept more than one pack, so you can switch between them when extra range is needed. It also facilitates swapable battery packs. You might have one at home on charge, and one in the EV. Swap them, or add the full one if you need to go on a surprise trip or longer-range errand. It also allows many, not just me to build rather great EV's. That's an important idea for our Sunrise EV2, too. I want something that *anyone* with reasonable garage-mechanic skills can build and maintain. I know what you are saying Lee. I've read almost every issue of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics, others, some into the 1890's and we just keep 'inventing' the same thing over and over again. Another odd effect: Having an idea printed in Popular Science or Popular Mechanix seems to be the kiss of death. Once it appears there, it sinks like a stone and is never heard of again! :-) -- The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing one that is just good enough. -- Eric S. Raymond -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Battery Swap - the idea that just wont die!
Just because you *can* get a 400 mile range doesn't mean you should. For one thing, doubling the range doubles the cost of your batteries. It also lowers efficiency, since you'll be carrying around twice the battery weight. ... But I do like the idea of a re-sizable pack. Yes, good idea to scale the battery to the individuals need. It also facilitates swapable battery packs Which, although completely impractical, does have some niche uses, such as EV endurance races See our GaTech cross country attempt in the 1970 MIT/CalTech Clean Air Car Race... The photo at the top right of the 5th page (labeled p 17) shows it takes two people to swap each of the ten lead-acids along the road. The car was still going when it reached the Mississippi, but the 2 ton truck carrying all the battery packs and recharging equipment broke down... http://aprs.org/EV-at-tech.html I just found this old article and would like to get in touch with anyone else on the crew that made the trip. I graduated immediately into the Navy and missed the actual race. Other than this 1970 anecdote, the idea of battery swap makes about as much sense as traveling cross country by boat using a trailer from each river to the next. Use EV's where they do best (travel within range) and stop trying to stuff them into every application there is. Bob Bruninga, PE ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland
No, just $0 generation/distribution. I have to pay $16.50 as a base connect/govt fee charge. --Rick On 06/30/2014 12:44 PM, Michael Ross wrote: Do you really get a $0 utility bills? According to my utility Duke Progess you should be ashamed of your self hanging infrastructure costs on poor people and poor old Duke. I use 0 net power and they bill me for a couple bits less than $20 every month. For electric service, and various surcharges - all hidden from view in that one line item. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] What procedure you use to predict and extend battery life?
I install thirty US Battery 6 volt 250 AH batteries on Sept 4 2009. This time, I made changes to the fiberglass battery box by coating the surfaces with acid proof epoxy coating. Install a explosion proof and acid proof inline exhaust fan which is connected to the battery box with acid proof pvc thick wall tubing. The exhaust outlet of this tubing is connected to a pvc exhaust tip which extends down and to the rear like a exhaust pipe. Before placing the batteries in the battery box, I lay in a 1/2 inch of baking soda for setting the batteries on. The batteries post are auto type with a stud on top. Used very heavy duty battery clamps that go around the post torque to 75 inch lbs. The torque the top stud to 75 inch lbs which puts addition internal pressure to the battery clamps. Drive the first 5 miles at about 100 battery amps and retorque the battery connections again, which may loss up to 5 inch lbs which is normal. Coat all the battery connections with petroleum jelly. I have recorded every single daily run which I use a five mile run as a bench mark. My first run back in 2009 at five miles all city driving at 30 mph, the battery display a ampere usage of 22 ah which was battery cycle No. 2. Yesterday, I completed the same 5 mile run and the ampere hour usage was 17.8 ah. The number of charging cycles are now at 3191 cycles which the battery SOC never went below 90 percent. If one full battery cycle is counted at one cycle at 50 percent SOC, then at 90 percent SOC equals about 1700 cycles. I then calculated I should go another 4.8 years or a total of 9.6 years never discharging below 90 SOC. The last pack which was a Trojan 245 Ah pack went 8.6 years which was still ok on level driving. In hill climbing which is about 50% of any runs I do, was very slow. I gave the batteries to another guy that built a EV and he drove it for another 2 years using the best 20 batteries for a 120 V battery pack. My next battery pack, may be the Nissan Leaf Modules stack up for 255 volts which will be 1500 lbs lighter than the batteries have now for a 20 mile increase range on the level and 6 mile increase range on hill climbing. Is this a good choice or is there any other battery that will work as good? Roland -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140630/fd609679/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
