Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find
things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it!
Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know
much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most
common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. ("I
couldn't deal with that limited range"). I almost never heard today's
litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone.
Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a
classical "good news, bad news" situation.
Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some
misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or
PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea
that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day.
On the other hand, some of the "informed" folks have clearly been
deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV
rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big-
bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their
petro-dollars income, or are otherwise "threatened" by EVs. (In some cases
I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the
ownership of some media conglomerates.)
There's also a whole army of paid "astroturfers" who troll the online
forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric.
The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV "experts" to appear on radio
and television programs.
But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians
and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is
sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an
IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a
Republican. Some of these "brands" demand more loyalty than others, but in
every case there's an element of "you're either with us or you're against
us." Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost.
Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to
change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to
argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of
the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be
bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead,
invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness
there are still some.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
I usually just let them drive my car.
Then they say "this is just like a regular car only peppier"
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:54 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
> wrote:
>
> This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find
> things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it!
>
> Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know
> much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most
> common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. ("I
> couldn't deal with that limited range"). I almost never heard today's
> litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone.
>
> Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a
> classical "good news, bad news" situation.
>
> Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some
> misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or
> PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea
> that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day.
>
> On the other hand, some of the "informed" folks have clearly been
> deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV
> rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big-
> bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their
> petro-dollars income, or are otherwise "threatened" by EVs. (In some cases
> I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the
> ownership of some media conglomerates.)
>
> There's also a whole army of paid "astroturfers" who troll the online
> forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric.
> The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV "experts" to appear on radio
> and television programs.
>
> But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians
> and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is
> sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an
> IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a
> Republican. Some of these "brands" demand more loyalty than others, but in
> every case there's an element of "you're either with us or you're against
> us." Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost.
>
> Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to
> change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to
> argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of
> the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be
> bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead,
> invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness
> there are still some.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
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>
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Re: [EVDL] A self contained car charging system
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Tesla Model S? My friends all drive EV's I must make amends. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, So Lord, won't you buy me a Tesla Model S? Sent from my iPad > On Oct 14, 2014, at 11:02 AM, rayfellow via EV wrote: > > Here's a self contained EV charging system. Also some interesting comments > about EV vs ICE refueling mentality. > > http://www.wired.com/2014/10/envision-solar-ev-charger/ > David Strong > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/A-self-contained-car-charging-system-tp4672107.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141101/d571410e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: PatrasU Students' 1seat 110hp 235kg EV +production business plan
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/25/greek-students-from-patras-build-electric-car/
Greek Students from Patras Build Electric Car
by Ioanna Zikakou - Oct 25, 2014
[image
http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/uni-patras-car.jpg
]
An electric car designed and built by Greek students was presented at the
Hellenic Motor Museum in Athens on October 23.
The presentation follows the University of Patras team victory in the
“Formula Student Czech 2014” international competition.
For almost two years, the Laboratory of Manufacturing Systems and Automation
at the University of Patras, directed by Professor George Chryssolouris, has
launched a pioneering program for the creation of a single-seat electric
car, designed and made entirely by undergraduate students.
The students aimed to participate in the Formula Student competition to
receive a distinction, but also to learn. “Formula Student” is a competition
open to students of polytechnic schools around the world. Its aim is to
build single-seat cars.
The competition evaluates teams on the design and construction of a
single-seat car, as well as on the team’s ability to present an adequate
business plan for its production.
The Greek team’s electric car has 110 horsepower and 750Nm of torque. It
uses advanced manufacturing technologies and materials. It weighs about 235
kilograms.
“There are teams of students in Greek universities who are trying to make
the establishments better,” said the Patras team leader Charis Bikas during
the presentation.
[© 2014 - GreekReporter.com ]
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http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_26817470/theyre-driving-sunshine
Plugin owners are driving on sunshine, 'We have to do this'
http://grapevine.is/news/2014/10/22/icelander-to-take-virtual-trip-to-mars/
Icelandic EV-co even.is Dir To Take Virtual/e-Robotic Trip on Mars
...
http://nutiminn.is/gisli-geimfari-syndarferd-nasa-til-mars/
http://icelandreview.com/news/2014/07/07/two-hundred-electric-car-stations-be-set
200 Icelandic Electric Car Stations to be Set up
...
http://www.frettatiminn.is/frettir/setja_upp_tvo_hundrud_hledslustodvar_fyrir_rafbila
+
EVLN: Awesome Carpenter.cn Sporting His Woodie nEV r:20km ts:30kph
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
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[EVDL] EVLN: Awesome Carpenter.cn Sporting His Woodie nEV r:20km ts:30kph
http://jalopnik.com/awesome-chinese-carpenter-made-his-own-electric-car-out-1652754729
Awesome Chinese Carpenter Made His Own Electric Car Out Of Wood
Raphael Orlove [20141030]
[images / China News/Getty
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2syNhA69--/gne9njjfzn6jpphuvkl9.jpg
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/968042498384549665.jpg
]
Why wait for a Tesla when you could just build an electric car yourself?
Well, other than the splinters, I guess.
48-year-old Liu Fulong of Shenyang, China did indeed build himself an
electric car. As he is a carpenter, he constructed the whole thing out of
wood.
I mean, other than the electric motor and stuff. I can only assume that is
made out of non-wood materials such as metal.
China News reports that the 200 kg car has a 20km (12 mi) range, tops out at
30 km/h (19 mph) and took a mere three months to build.
[© jalopnik.com]
...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sportin%27%20a%20Woodie
...
http://www.nationalwoodieclub.com/gallery.htm
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http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_26817470/theyre-driving-sunshine
Plugin owners are driving on sunshine, 'We have to do this'
http://grapevine.is/news/2014/10/22/icelander-to-take-virtual-trip-to-mars/
Icelandic EV-co even.is Dir To Take Virtual/e-Robotic Trip on Mars
...
http://nutiminn.is/gisli-geimfari-syndarferd-nasa-til-mars/
http://icelandreview.com/news/2014/07/07/two-hundred-electric-car-stations-be-set
200 Icelandic Electric Car Stations to be Set up
...
http://www.frettatiminn.is/frettir/setja_upp_tvo_hundrud_hledslustodvar_fyrir_rafbila
+
EVLN: PatrasU Students' 1seat 110hp 235kg EV +production business plan
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
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[EVDL] Large pih conversion vehicles ...
As a perhaps 'what-if' scenario, 'what the future will bring', or as a bit
of a mental exercise, I am posting something relating to the previously
posted large (puffy) truck item
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Electrifying-Large-Vehicles-converting-buyers-to-a-higher-mpge-design-tp4671523.html
Electrifying Large Vehicles> converting buyers to a higher mpge design
to kick around.
What lead me to this was a hev newswire
http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/story/2014/10/coca-cola-to-more-than-double-hybrid-vans.aspx
touting Coke delivery vans converted to hev giving better economy. That
newswire did not do much for me, but my next thought was what off the shelf
conversion items were the converter using, so I sought out the converter's
site.
Looking at
http://www.xlhybrids.com/hybrid-van-available-now
and focusing on the (right side) largest vehicles, I clicked on the spec
link:
http://www.xlhybrids.com/sites/default/files/XL_Hybrids_Cutaway_SalesSheet_Web.pdf
which gives the specs for their large hev with an image showing an
underside view of the chassis, showing the drive train, pack, etc (ice not
shown but you can figure that part out).
Lets forget all their hoopla pushing hev and assume the future has cheaper
packs, that lends itself to conversion businesses like this to using 'off
the shelf' pih packages (so no longer making hev, but pih conversions).
Instead of the wimpy 1kW hev pack (like what is shown, similar to what a
Prius hev has), their range of converted pih vehicles (from vans to buses to
heavy Strip Chassis trucks) could offer different pack configurations as
options, starting with a lower priced ~20kW, and incrementally increasing
the pack capacity size to fit the customer's need/demand.
This would have a much wider use than just as Coke delivery vans. It could
be implemented all across heavy vehicle uses (from airport
shuttle-vans/people-mover/limo-service to city shuttle-buses to large heavy
box delivery trucks).
Those pih vehicles with a large pack capacity and a regular route could have
an L3 EVSE at their regular/usual stops to quickly boost their e-range use
($aving $, using less chemical-fuel, extending the periods between
ice-maintenance).
Large delivery trucks are regularly parked for queuing to unload or load
items at a site's shipping/receiving dock. Those with refrigeration units
usually offer 240VAC/20A 3-phase power to keep refrigeration units powered.
That same electrical power could put miles back into parked pih vehicles
(same amount of electrical energy, just instead of cooling, it puts e-range
back in).
The possibilities of heavy pih vehicle use are expansive, including
eventually:
- RVs (when they plug in for the night, the smart on-board charger pulls the
maximum power from the Nema 14-50 240VAC 50A outlet and what power is not
needed for the RV appliances is used to recharge the pack> adding e-miles).
- Shuttle buses parked routinely for 15min to give the driver a break, could
use an inductive charging system could pump power back into the pack
- Smaller vans and trucks could fit in standard EVSE parking spaces thus
could use public L3 to regain miles quickly on lunch breaks, etc.
- And some of the civilian drivers that currently drive huge inefficient
(wasteful, puffy) trucks for show (with no intention to actually use them or
get them scratched from work) could also have the option of driving some of
their miles in electric-mode.
The above could happen, and may be right around the corner. I came across a
pih newswire
http://www.businesswire.com/news/mfrtech/20141027006268/en/Greenkraft-Efficient-Drivetrains-Jointly-Receive-Grant-California
Greenkraft Inc. and Efficient Drivetrains, Inc. Jointly Receive Grant from
California Energy Commission to Develop CNG-PHEV Class-4 Truck
promoting the CEC's grant funding Greenkraft
http://www.greenkraftinc.com/alternative-fuel-systems/
to use Efficient Drivetrains'
http://www.efficientdrivetrains.com/
phev/pih product
I did not see how large the pih pack was, nor what type of charging they
offered. So, while some may think grant $ like this are a waste, grant$ can
show the viability of a business model that produces and or uses large heavy
pih vehicles.
All corrections, comments, views are welcome :-)
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+
EVLN: Awesome Carpenter.cn Sporting His Woodie nEV r:20km ts:30kph
+
EVLN: PatrasU Students' 1seat 110hp 235kg EV +production business plan
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Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
Admittedly I don't read a lot of traditional media. But I do see a lot of EV-
related media. So I'm puzzled by your reference to lots of anti-EV rhetoric.
Where are you seeing it? I'm not. In fact, I see lots of positive things
everywhere about EVs. I also see people much better informed about them than
they ever have. And the awareness seems to be beyond just the "usual suspects."
Further, as I would have never imagined when I first started pushing EVs over
25 years ago, the movement towards EVs is going well beyond the light duty
niche.
I'm confident that they're here to stay, and in many flavors.
I think that these are good times for EVs.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 1, 2014, at 3:54 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
> wrote:
>
> This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find
> things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it!
>
> Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know
> much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most
> common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. ("I
> couldn't deal with that limited range"). I almost never heard today's
> litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone.
>
> Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a
> classical "good news, bad news" situation.
>
> Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some
> misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or
> PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea
> that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day.
>
> On the other hand, some of the "informed" folks have clearly been
> deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV
> rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big-
> bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their
> petro-dollars income, or are otherwise "threatened" by EVs. (In some cases
> I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the
> ownership of some media conglomerates.)
>
> There's also a whole army of paid "astroturfers" who troll the online
> forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric.
> The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV "experts" to appear on radio
> and television programs.
>
> But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians
> and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is
> sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an
> IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a
> Republican. Some of these "brands" demand more loyalty than others, but in
> every case there's an element of "you're either with us or you're against
> us." Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost.
>
> Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to
> change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to
> argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of
> the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be
> bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead,
> invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness
> there are still some.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Large pih conversion vehicles ...
Perhaps in part longer term, you might want to take a look at the technology assessments prepared by the California Air Resources Board (and, in part, the South Coast Air Quality Management District). They look at all vehicle categories. The bottom line is that over time, most if not all vehicle categories lend themselves to partial or full electrification over time, though each niche has different challenges. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/tech/tech.htm It's possible that the workshops, which were webcast, are available online, but you'll have to look. They would likely be at the CalEPA webcast site. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > As a perhaps 'what-if' scenario, 'what the future will bring', or as a bit > of a mental exercise, I am posting something relating to the previously > posted large (puffy) truck item > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Electrifying-Large-Vehicles-converting-buyers-to-a-higher-mpge-design-tp4671523.html > Electrifying Large Vehicles> converting buyers to a higher mpge design > to kick around. > > What lead me to this was a hev newswire > http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/story/2014/10/coca-cola-to-more-than-double-hybrid-vans.aspx > touting Coke delivery vans converted to hev giving better economy. That > newswire did not do much for me, but my next thought was what off the shelf > conversion items were the converter using, so I sought out the converter's > site. > > Looking at > http://www.xlhybrids.com/hybrid-van-available-now > and focusing on the (right side) largest vehicles, I clicked on the spec > link: > > http://www.xlhybrids.com/sites/default/files/XL_Hybrids_Cutaway_SalesSheet_Web.pdf > which gives the specs for their large hev with an image showing an > underside view of the chassis, showing the drive train, pack, etc (ice not > shown but you can figure that part out). > > Lets forget all their hoopla pushing hev and assume the future has cheaper > packs, that lends itself to conversion businesses like this to using 'off > the shelf' pih packages (so no longer making hev, but pih conversions). > > Instead of the wimpy 1kW hev pack (like what is shown, similar to what a > Prius hev has), their range of converted pih vehicles (from vans to buses to > heavy Strip Chassis trucks) could offer different pack configurations as > options, starting with a lower priced ~20kW, and incrementally increasing > the pack capacity size to fit the customer's need/demand. > > This would have a much wider use than just as Coke delivery vans. It could > be implemented all across heavy vehicle uses (from airport > shuttle-vans/people-mover/limo-service to city shuttle-buses to large heavy > box delivery trucks). > > Those pih vehicles with a large pack capacity and a regular route could have > an L3 EVSE at their regular/usual stops to quickly boost their e-range use > ($aving $, using less chemical-fuel, extending the periods between > ice-maintenance). > > Large delivery trucks are regularly parked for queuing to unload or load > items at a site's shipping/receiving dock. Those with refrigeration units > usually offer 240VAC/20A 3-phase power to keep refrigeration units powered. > That same electrical power could put miles back into parked pih vehicles > (same amount of electrical energy, just instead of cooling, it puts e-range > back in). > > The possibilities of heavy pih vehicle use are expansive, including > eventually: > > - RVs (when they plug in for the night, the smart on-board charger pulls the > maximum power from the Nema 14-50 240VAC 50A outlet and what power is not > needed for the RV appliances is used to recharge the pack> adding e-miles). > > - Shuttle buses parked routinely for 15min to give the driver a break, could > use an inductive charging system could pump power back into the pack > > - Smaller vans and trucks could fit in standard EVSE parking spaces thus > could use public L3 to regain miles quickly on lunch breaks, etc. > > - And some of the civilian drivers that currently drive huge inefficient > (wasteful, puffy) trucks for show (with no intention to actually use them or > get them scratched from work) could also have the option of driving some of > their miles in electric-mode. > > > The above could happen, and may be right around the corner. I came across a > pih newswire > http://www.businesswire.com/news/mfrtech/20141027006268/en/Greenkraft-Efficient-Drivetrains-Jointly-Receive-Grant-California > Greenkraft Inc. and Efficient Drivetrains, Inc. Jointly Receive Grant from > California Energy Commission to Develop CNG-PHEV Class-4 Truck > > promoting the CEC's grant funding Greenkraft > http://www.greenkraftinc.com/alternative-fuel-systems/ > to use Efficient Drivetrains' > http://www.efficientdrivetrains.com/ > phev/pih product > > I did not see how large the pih pack was, nor what type of charging they > offered. So, while some may think grant
