Re: [EVDL] Golfboard - a Lithium-Ion battery powered all-wheel drive "skateboard" for golfers
Got a link Cor ? On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > I just saw a report about a Corvallis, Oregon golf club (Trysting Tree) > who instead of golf carts offer a fleet of "Golf Boards" for their > golfers. It looks like a mix between a skateboard and a segway. > I wonder if Otmar has anything to do with this, I believe he is in > that area also. May be a coincidence. > Looks like a fun vehicle though, even though it is limited to 5 MPH > for obvious reasons. > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com > Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info > Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 > Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/458e77d6/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Golfboard - a Lithium-Ion battery powered all-wheel drive "skateboard" for golfers
golfboard.com -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Golfboard-a-Lithium-Ion-battery-powered-all-wheel-drive-skateboard-for-golfers-tp4675061p4675063.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] golfboard.com > e-Surf the Earth
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Golfboard-a-Lithium-Ion-battery-powered-all-wheel-drive-skateboard-for-golfers-tp4675061.html
Golfboard - a Lithium-Ion battery powered all-wheel drive "skateboard" for
golfers
]
In one video it looks like a lot of fun but clearly because of the need to
bend and sway your body to ride the Golfboard, their target market is not
for the elderly retired lesiure types who are mainly riding carts. Shown are
riders that are 50 or less
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CoTwIl3APw
Tetherow GolfBoard Promo Video
GolfBoard Apr 29, 2014
Tetherow golf club in Oregon introduces the GolfBoard.
Don't forget to check out our website for more info, and also to follow us
on social!
http://www.golfboard.com/
https://www.fac ebook.com/GolfBoard
https://twitter.com/golfboards
]
A simple search
https://www.google.com/search?q="Golf+Boards";
gives a lot more links to explore:
Surf the Earth with the GolfBoard
www.golfboard.com/
Video for "Golf Boards" 3:12
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfvOoSSh94Q
Aug 15, 2013 - Uploaded by GolfBoard
I just saw another video about these golf boards recently +Jeffrey Tobian?.
I think they said the founder is out of ...
Tetherow GolfBoard Promo Video - YouTube
GolfBoard | Fac ebook
https://www.fac ebook.com/GolfBoard
Steven Sharp I would love to see the golf boards on at least one PGA
tournament a year, that would be cool, and a lot of fun for the players and
caddies.
http://www.talentzoo.com/beneath-the-brand/blog_news.php?articleID=19566
Golf Carts or Golf Boards? Choose How You Ride - Talent Zoo
For years, there have been two ways to get around a golf course. One? Walk.
Two? Ride in a golf cart. And this has proven to be very effective in
getting your ...
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/pga-show-golf-boards-and-swing-shirts/
Product review: Golf boards and swing shirts - Golf Channel
Jan 22, 2014 - Gary Williams, Holly Sonders and Charlie Rymer discuss golf
boards and swing shirts at the 2014 PGA Merchandise Show at the Orange ...
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/pga-show-pull-carts-and-golf-boards/
A walk in the park: Pull carts and golf boards - Golf Channel
Jan 22, 2014 - Check out the latest in golf transportation products from
traditional pull carts to the new high-tech golf boards. George Savaricas,
Charlie Rymer ...
http://www.fox23.com/videos/sports/new-surf-golf-boards-to-bring-in-younger-golfers/vCbqss/
New Surf Golf Boards to Bring in Younger Golfers | www ...
New Surf Golf Boards will soon be in most Golf Courses to bring in the
younger crowd.
https://www.coloradoavidgolfer.com/blog/easy-riders-golf-bikes-and-boards
Easy Riders: Golf Bikes and Golf Boards | Colorado AvidGolfer
Apr 28, 2014 - Introducing two new ways to cruise the golf course in style
this season: golf bikes and golf boards.
Kris Strauss on Twitter: "Golf Boards, Segways and Golf ...
https://twitter.com/krisstrauss/status/568865266194493440
Feb 20, 2015 - Golf Boards, Segways and Golf Bikes on display at @kierlandgc
@scottsdaleaz @troongolf pic.twitter.com/kNutmWgGbd. 0 replies 12 retweets
...
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/golfboard-com-e-Surf-the-Earth-tp4675064.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Ryan Reynolds is 'dangerously eco' about electric cars
http://www.heraldmailmedia.com/entertainment/parade/parade_entertainment/how-is-blake-lively-helping-save-the-earth/article_39772fc2-3052-5256-9ccb-944f5782addb.html
How is Blake Lively Helping Save the Earth?
April 17, 2015
[image
http://www.heraldmailmedia.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/05/2055f03f-de15-5dcf-9606-def892512b5e/5530c10ec1a4b.image.jpg
]
Parade ...
What was the inspiration behind Preserve? ...
How do you keep the site eco- friendly? ...
What do you do in your personal life to protect the planet?
“My husband (Ryan Reynolds) turned a car that wasn’t supposed to be electric
into an electric car by putting a thousand-pound battery in the trunk. He’s
dangerously eco. Our homes are solar, we have the compost in the garden and
we do all the smaller things, like turning off lights in the house—things I
didn’t do growing up that I have learned to be aware of.”
The Age of Adaline is a love story but more than that. How would you
describe it?
“It’s about the relationship between love and time—and the beauty and
tragedy in that.”
What does it take these days to make you want to take a role?
“It sure takes a lot, especially now that I’ve got a baby [born in
December]. It has to be a film that creatively inspires me.”
[© Herald Mail Media]
...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005351/
Ryan Reynolds
[dated]
http://www.vidinfo.org/video/5017279/ryan-about-electric-cars
Ryan about electric cars - VidInfo - video information like you want
Oct 2, 2014
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071926_ryan-reynolds-gets-funny-with-the-2012-nissan-leaf-video
Ryan Reynolds Gets Funny With The 2012 Nissan Leaf: Video
Jan 19, 2012 ... Even talented actors like Ryan Reynolds can't measure up,
as we see in ... Electric Car Price Guide: Every 2015-2016 Plug-In Car, With
Specs:
...
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2011/06/13/ryan-reynolds-teams-up-with-nissan-to-promote-electric-cars-and-healthy-living/
Ryan Reynolds Teams Up With Nissan To Promote Electric Cars ...
Jun 13, 2011 ... Green Lantern star (and stone cold fox) Ryan Reynolds has
teamed ... to promote the Nissan Leaf — a 100% electric car– and to help
launch ...
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=subject%3Aevln+NOT+subject%3Are&days=0&sort=date
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Ryan-Reynolds-is-dangerously-eco-about-electric-cars-tp4675065.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S EV vs Audi R8 V10 ice Drag race
http://motoring.iafrica.com/features/989994.html
Drag race! Tesla Model S vs Audi R8 V10
15 Apr 2015
[image
http://motoring.iafrica.com/assets/13/3737/296180/_original
A still image of the Tesla Model S P85D
video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrUskqXAUww
Tesla Model S P85D vs Audi R8 5.2 V10 1/4 Mile Drag Racing Launch Control
DragTimes Mar 5, 2015
http://www.dragtimes.com/
]
A video of a Tesla Model S P85D lining up against a previous-generation Audi
R8 V10 is racking up the views on YouTube.
The clip shows the electric car at the drag strip, where it takes on a
slightly tuned version of the mighty R8.
Although you'll no doubt have your ideas about which vehicle will win this
quartermile drag, we'll let you find out for sure by watching the video
below.
No spoilers here.
[© iafrica.co]
http://www.delmarvanow.com/story/entertainment/culture/2015/04/14/telsa-rally-road-trip/25778847/
Annual Salisbury to Ocean City MD Tesla Road Trip 4/17-19 extravaganza
JUSTIN MCCLURE April 15, 2015
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097814_2015-tesla-model-s-70d-first-drive-of-new-electric-car-base-model
2015 Tesla Model S 70D: First Drive Of New Electric Car Base Model
By David Noland Apr 15, 2015
...
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2015/04/14/teslas-ev-tour-puts-insane-acceleration-display/25789725/
Tesla's EV tour puts 'insane' acceleration on display
Gordon Dickson, Fort Worth Star-Telegram
...
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/phoenix-taxis-boss-plans-build-9037296
Phoenix Taxis boss plans to build a fleet of £80,000 Tesla electric ...
April 14, 2015 ... Alex Hurst of Phoenix Taxis unleashed his Tesla Model S
electric supercar in February - and is planning to add nine more ...
...
http://theenergycollective.com/catherinewolfram/2216836/energy-tourism-tesla-taxi-oslo
Energy Tourism: The Tesla Taxi in Oslo
April 15, 2015 by: Catherine Wolfram
...
http://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Living-with-Technology-Coast-to-coast-coasting-6200809.php
Living with Technology: Coast-to-coast coasting -- Westporter's tour in an
electric Tesla
Mark Mathias April 15, 2015
...
http://gas2.org/2015/04/15/i-drove-the-tesla-p85d-and-now-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same/
I Drove The Tesla P85D, And Now Nothing I Drive Will Feel The Same Way Again
Christopher DeMorro [2015/04/15]
...
http://blog.dupontregistry.com/the-lifestyle/people/celebrity-cars/tesla-p85d-insane-mode-coffee-run-with-deadmau5/
Tesla P85D Insane Mode Coffee Run With Deadmau5
April 15, 2015
...
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/test-drive-review-2015-tesla-model-s-p85d-article-1.2183569
Tesla Model S P85D is an electric-powered superhero
BY Jeff Jablansky April 13, 2015
...
http://www.businessfinancenews.com/22112-tesla-motors-inc-to-launch-new-product-on-april-30/
Tesla Motors Inc To Launch New Product On April 30
by Sam Hason on April 14, 2015
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=subject%3Aevln+subject%3Atesla+-re&days=0&sort=date
Read more Tesla EVLN items on evdl
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/13/win-a-tesla-from-the-messner-foundation/
Win A Tesla-S EV From Messner Foundation raffle> helps HS students
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/time-stop-calling-tesla-startup
Time to stop calling Tesla a startup
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/rules-of-the-road-for-scooters-and-ebikes-1.2331126
Rules of the road for scooters and EBikes
http://www.ksby.com/story/28783749/cal-poly-installs-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-on-campus
12 EVSE installed on Cal Poly campus SLO CA
+
EVLN: Are Electric Vehicles A Good Choice For Teenage Drivers?
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-S-EV-vs-Audi-R8-V10-ice-Drag-race-tp4675066.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Are EVs A Good Choice For Teenage Drivers?
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/16/electric-vehicles-best-choice-teenage-drivers/
Are Electric Vehicles The Best Choice For Teenage Drivers?
April 16th, 2015 by James Ayre
% Spark EV prices have been cut> good EV choice as well %
[image] Nissan LEAF Image Credit: Nissan
Are electric vehicles the best choice for teenage drivers (assuming that
upfront costs aren’t an issue)? That’s an interesting question, one where
I’d have to lean towards saying yes… with caveats, that is.
I’d argue that the main reasons supporting this position are the limited
single-charge driving ranges (making it harder for the kid to just drive off
somewhere on an unannounced holiday); the reduced operating/fuel costs (most
of us remember gas money being a limiting factor in traveling, I assume);
and safety (with regard to many different things).
With regard to limited driving ranges — given that most electric vehicles
(EV) possess ranges well under 100 miles per full charge, the potential for
mischief is somewhat lessened. And, for that matter, the necessity for
forethought and planning is strengthened, probably both are good things when
dealing with teenagers (especially those who have been gifted access to an
automobile despite their undeveloped brains and lack of personally gathered
resources).
As far as operating costs and safety, sister site Gas2 provides some
interesting thoughts:
An electric car can save you money on fuel. The federal government estimates
that driving 25 miles in an electric car costs about $1.00. Even with gas at
an 8-year low, there are very few gasoline powered cars that can match that
figure. If your choice is to lease a new EV or pass down that 10-year-old
Civic sitting in the driveway, which one do you think will cost more to
repair and maintain?
Insurance for an EV is usually substantially less, an important
consideration when it comes to adding a teenager to the family insurance
policy. Best of all, many EVs come with very attractive lease rates. A new
Nissan LEAF can be had for just $199 a month for 36 months with $2,399 due
at signing. If you live in California or Oregon, FIAT will lease you a 500e
for only $139 a month with just $1,999 down. That’s doable even on
McDonald’s wages.
Sure that old Civic or Corolla you have is already paid for, but is it as
safe as a new car? Safety standards are improving all the time. Newer cars
are just better made than older cars. The Chevy Spark EV and Ford Focus
Electric are Top Safety Picks by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety.
The LEAF and 500e got marked down after a new small overlap frontal crash
test was added in 2014, but lots of other cars got caught out by that new
addition to the testing protocol. You can bet every manufacturer is working
furiously behind the scenes to fix that issue.
Good points all around. I don’t have any kids, so the question is just a
mental exercise for me. Nothing on the line. But the arguments seem pretty
solid. The only real barrier to my eyes are upfront costs — which can be
mitigated to some degree by taking companies like Nissan up on their
attractive leasing options ...
[© cleantechnica.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/13/win-a-tesla-from-the-messner-foundation/
Win A Tesla-S EV From Messner Foundation raffle> helps HS students
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/time-stop-calling-tesla-startup
Time to stop calling Tesla a startup
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/rules-of-the-road-for-scooters-and-ebikes-1.2331126
Rules of the road for scooters and EBikes
http://www.ksby.com/story/28783749/cal-poly-installs-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-on-campus
12 EVSE installed on Cal Poly campus SLO CA
+
EVLN: Tesla-S EV vs Audi R8 V10 ice 1/4 Mile Drag Racing
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Are-EVs-A-Good-Choice-For-Teenage-Drivers-tp4675067.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: EZ-Wheel all-n-1 e-wheel is packaging triumph
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/powered-wheel-packaging-triumph-2015-04/
Powered wheel is packaging triumph
steve bush 23rd April 2015
[images
http://static.electronicsweekly.com/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2015/04/EZ-Wheel.jpg
EZ-Wheel
http://static.electronicsweekly.com/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2015/04/EZ-Wheel-app.jpg
]
French firm Ez-Wheel has managed to pack an entire electric vehicle system
into a wheel – battery, charger, converter and motor included. Nothing
electrical need be fitted to the vehicle chassis.
Intended to add powered traction to industrial trolleys, application are
also proposed moving patients in hospitals and shifting food.
“Ez-Wheel products are ready to operate in outdoor or indoor conditions,
over an extended temperature range. All the components including the battery
are designed to withstand 5 years of operation without any maintenance
required,” said the firm.
The French Environmental Technologies Fund, managed by Bpifrance on behalf
of the State, has just made its seventh investment with Ez-Wheel, adding
€2.5m to its coffers to support the commercial development of the company.
This was carried out through a capital increase for a total of 5.3m,
alongside investors: Robolution 1 Capital, Ecomobilité Ventures,
Poitou-Charentes Innovation and funds managed by Alto Invest and
Charente-Périgord Expansion.
“With over a thousand of such wheels sold, ez-Wheel is entering a new phase
of faster international development,” said Ez-Wheel, which was founded by
three engineers in 2009 in Angoulême between Bordeaux and La Rochelle.
[© electronicsweekly.com]
...
http://www.ez-wheel.com/?langue=en
ez-Wheel - The Electric Wheel
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EZ-Wheel-all-n-1-e-wheel-is-packaging-triumph-tp4675070.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell vehicle (with no reply address). So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled out an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after bad in last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a competitive Toyota BEV... IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of the fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your comments at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for review from the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such as yours we are able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our products and services." If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign for their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add “steam and heat”. DUH, No mention of what fossil fuel they are using to get that steam and heat? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097964_new-toyota-film-appropriates-musk-bs-comment-on-hydrogen-for-its-title Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/d6fa716a/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's "bull$$it"
You should also watch Toyota's new video which says the car can run on Elon Musk's "bull$$it "comments and show how they can take cow manure, and process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add "steam and heat". DUH, No mention of what fossil fuel they are using to get that steam and heat? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097964_new-toyota-film-appropriates-m usk-bs-comment-on-hydrogen-for-its-title They can't get away with this! Bob ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
Evidently, the readers of Green Car Reports aren't fooled, judging by the comments. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 23-Apr-15 3:19:05 PM Subject: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add “steam and heat”. DUH, No mention of what fossil fuel they are using to get that steam and heat? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097964_new-toyota-film-appropriates-musk-bs-comment-on-hydrogen-for-its-title Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/d6fa716a/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon > Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and > process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add “steam and heat”. I made as far as when he got to the refinery and said that they collect methane and then do shit to it. Um...why not just use that methane as is? I mean, we already do -- every vehicle with a "CNG" or "LNG" sticker on it is burning methane. Anything further they do to the methane, by definition, will result in a loss of system efficiency. At some point, the hydrocarbons are going to have to get oxidized. Your best bet is to do that with the minimum amount of prior processing and in the most efficient oxidizer you can get. In this case, that would mean using the methane to power a utility-scale turbine and charging the grid and EVs with the resulting electricity. A close second would be using it for hybrid ICE / electric rail locomotives. It _might_ be the case that burning the methane in a gasoline-style vehicle engine is more efficient than the electric generation to EV route...but more likely not. What's guaranteed is that converting the methane to H2, compressing it, and using it to generate electricity in a small fuel cell to power an electric motor...is going to be horribly inefficient. For it to make sense at all, there's going to have to be something inherently superior about the fuel cell engine as opposed to a comparable four-stroke methane-powered ICE such that you'd choose the fuel cell on its merits alone...and I'm hard pressed to think of anything overwhelming. I'm sure there're niche situations where fuel cells make all kinds of sense, but that niche isn't to be found on the highways of the developed world. b& -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/6f187b5f/attachment.pgp> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
Bob, thanks for writing in about your effort and the response. It spurred me into action, I went there and submitted my thoughts on the Prius (I have an '02, and on the newest models), but more so on the FCV vs BEV debate. Perhaps many of us could sway them, eventually. Thanks again, -Chris On 4/23/2015 5:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell vehicle (with no reply address). So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled out an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after bad in last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a competitive Toyota BEV... IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of the fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your comments at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for review from the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such as yours we are able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our products and services." If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign for their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
I have the impression that no matter how hard we argue here until we are blue in the face (and it will edify some and give a solid background about *why* they are called fool cells) it will not sway much of the compliance car that Toyota is building (or the battery swap that Tesla is doing), simply because this industry has put it into law that you can get credits for providing a zero-emission long range vehicle, which is seen as "required" by the lawmakers and only two variants are being offered / developed at the moment: Hydrogen refilling (no matter how clumsy and inefficient and lacking infrastructure) and battery swapping (no matter that only a single station needed to be demonstrated). There you have it, as far as I know that is the reason we see what we see. To change this, we better watch legislators more closely / lobby better and educate them where we can, so we can get rid of these monstrosities and focus on things that work, such as BEV and get those into mainstream with all the money available instead of wasting it on pipe-dreams. Let me know if I am besides the point... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mr23 via EV Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:44 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle Bob, thanks for writing in about your effort and the response. It spurred me into action, I went there and submitted my thoughts on the Prius (I have an '02, and on the newest models), but more so on the FCV vs BEV debate. Perhaps many of us could sway them, eventually. Thanks again, -Chris On 4/23/2015 5:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell > vehicle (with no reply address). > > So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled > out an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after > bad in last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a > competitive Toyota BEV... > > IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: > > "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of > the fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both > battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your > comments at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for > review from the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such > as yours we are able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our > products and services." > > If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign > for their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
Yep. Better education is the key. Eventually people will wise up to the taxes, aka subsidies, needed to support a fuel cell auto industry when they start wondering where their tax payments are going. Education will shorten that time. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Cor van de Water via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 23-Apr-15 5:48:18 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle I have the impression that no matter how hard we argue here until we are blue in the face (and it will edify some and give a solid background about *why* they are called fool cells) it will not sway much of the compliance car that Toyota is building (or the battery swap that Tesla is doing), simply because this industry has put it into law that you can get credits for providing a zero-emission long range vehicle, which is seen as "required" by the lawmakers and only two variants are being offered / developed at the moment: Hydrogen refilling (no matter how clumsy and inefficient and lacking infrastructure) and battery swapping (no matter that only a single station needed to be demonstrated). There you have it, as far as I know that is the reason we see what we see. To change this, we better watch legislators more closely / lobby better and educate them where we can, so we can get rid of these monstrosities and focus on things that work, such as BEV and get those into mainstream with all the money available instead of wasting it on pipe-dreams. Let me know if I am besides the point... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mr23 via EV Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:44 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle Bob, thanks for writing in about your effort and the response. It spurred me into action, I went there and submitted my thoughts on the Prius (I have an '02, and on the newest models), but more so on the FCV vs BEV debate. Perhaps many of us could sway them, eventually. Thanks again, -Chris On 4/23/2015 5:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell vehicle (with no reply address). So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled out an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after bad in last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a competitive Toyota BEV... IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of the fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your comments at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for review from the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such as yours we are able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our products and services." If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign for their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: > > Um...why not just use that methane as is? I mean, we already do -- every > vehicle with a "CNG" or "LNG" sticker on it is burning methane. To reduce air pollution. That's why CARB adopted the ZEV mandate. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
I think Ben's question still has merit, though. If you start with methane and take it down two paths, what is the difference in emissions and efficiency? The first path is burning the methane in an ICE. The second path is converting the methane to hydrogen and using it in a fuel cell. It seems like the hydrogen conversion is still likely to create CO2. How does the hydrogen cycle reduce air pollution from using methane? Mike On April 23, 2015 7:28:17 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV >wrote: >> >> Um...why not just use that methane as is? I mean, we already do -- >every vehicle with a "CNG" or "LNG" sticker on it is burning methane. > >To reduce air pollution. That's why CARB adopted the ZEV mandate. >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:48 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > [T]his industry has put it into law that you can get > credits for providing a zero-emission long range vehicle[] I think it would make the contrast between BEVs and FCVs much starker if the requirement wasn't tailpipe emissions but well-to-wheel emissions. In that case, FCVs have little hope of competing, since basically all of the hydrogen comes from mined hydrocarbons with said carbon being released into the atmosphere before the hydrogen is delivered to the vehicle. BEVs, on the other hand, can be entirely solar powered -- and many of those on the road already are. The absolute best that a FCV can possibly hope for is to use solar power to analyze water and collect the hydrogen to power the car. Seen that way, it's obvious that the fool cell is in direct competition with a battery...and, given an hour of insolation on a square meter of panels, I just don't see a FCV going anywhere near as far on the resulting charge as a BEV. Maybe somebody else has done (or knows) the math and could put some hard numbers to it? I'd be willing to eat my words. b& -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/8ed3891a/attachment.pgp> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
On Apr 23, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote: > It seems like the hydrogen conversion is still likely to create CO2. How > does the hydrogen cycle reduce air pollution from using methane? Exactly. I'm sure the FCV has negligible _tailpipe_ emissions compared with one that runs on CNG or LNG. But not only are both processes splitting hydrogen from carbon...I'm pretty sure you get many more miles (microns?) per hydrogen atom with CNG and LNG than you do with a fool cell. Unless the carbon from the methane is being sequestered as part of the refining process, the fool cell is an environmental disaster. But, if it _is_ being sequestered...damn, that's an awful lot more energy! And again a catastrophic disaster compared with a BEV charged with rooftop solar panels. b& -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/9d9e2982/attachment.pgp> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
That's hilarious! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > > You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon > Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and > process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add “steam and heat”. > DUH, No mention of what fossil fuel they are using to get that steam and > heat? > > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097964_new-toyota-film-appropriates-musk-bs-comment-on-hydrogen-for-its-title > > > > Bob > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/d6fa716a/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
On 24 Apr 2015 at 1:08, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > Eventually people will wise up to the taxes, aka subsidies, needed to > support a fuel cell auto industry when they start wondering where > their tax payments are going. Education will shorten that time. Watch out, that's a sharp two-edged sword. If we're not careful, it'll swing the other way, and cut off BEV subsidies too. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
Surely, rather than fighting _against_ FCVs, we should be fighting _with_ them, against our common enemy the internal combustion engine? https://youtu.be/kHHitXxH-us?t=44s (I'm not a big fan of FCVs, but it seems to me they will go away on their own; we don't need to hasten their demise, other than perhaps to get states like California to stop spending our taxes on them.) On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell > vehicle (with no reply address). > > So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled out > an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after bad in > last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a competitive Toyota > BEV... > > IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: > > "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of the > fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both > battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your comments > at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for review from > the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such as yours we are > able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our products and > services." > > If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign for > their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part ------ An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/3205398c/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:10 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > On 24 Apr 2015 at 1:08, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > >> Eventually people will wise up to the taxes, aka subsidies, needed to >> support a fuel cell auto industry when they start wondering where >> their tax payments are going. Education will shorten that time. > > Watch out, that's a sharp two-edged sword. If we're not careful, it'll > swing the other way, and cut off BEV subsidies too. Any time anybody complains about subsidies going to electric vehicle manufacturers I just have to roll my eyes and ask about the auto industry bailout. Same thing with solar energy and our military expenditures to ensure compliant regimes in oil-producing lands -- not to mention corporate welfare in general. You want a level playing field? Look at what gasoline costs in Europe. How well do you think Detroit could compete with EVs if cheap gasoline was $8 / gallon? ...sorry, preaching to the choir, I know b& -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/fe3123e3/attachment.pgp> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
I'm not so sure FCVs are an ally to EVs. Whether FCVs go away on their own or not, to build the infrastructure will cost billions and then billions more of subsidies to generate hydrogen at a competitive price. Once that infrastructure exists, it is a beast, not an ally. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Jorg Brown via EV" To: "Robert Bruninga" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 23-Apr-15 9:11:12 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle Surely, rather than fighting _against_ FCVs, we should be fighting _with_ them, against our common enemy the internal combustion engine? https://youtu.be/kHHitXxH-us?t=44s (I'm not a big fan of FCVs, but it seems to me they will go away on their own; we don't need to hasten their demise, other than perhaps to get states like California to stop spending our taxes on them.) On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Earlier today, I got an email from Toyota promoting their Fool Cell vehicle (with no reply address). So I went to the Toyota web site and found the CONTACT link and filled out an on-line email telling them to stop throwing good money after bad in last years ideas (Fool cells) and to come out with a competitive Toyota BEV... IN less than 3 hours, I got a response: "We are sorry to hear of your concerns with Toyota's positioning of the fuel cell vehicle. We respect your opinions regarding both battery-electric vehicles and the FCV, and have documented your comments at our National Headquarters, where they remain available for review from the appropriate departments. It is through feedback such as yours we are able to monitor and improve upon the quality of our products and services." If they are actively sending out a broad reach advertising campaign for their FCV, then they are also obviously open to feedback! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150423/3205398c/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tell Toyota what you think of their Fool cell vehicle
Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I'm not so sure FCVs are an ally to EVs. Whether FCVs go away on their own or not, to build the infrastructure will cost billions and then billions more of subsidies to generate hydrogen at a competitive price. Once that infrastructure exists, it is a beast, not an ally. I agree. In 2000, fuel cell vehicles were loudly promoted as the way to *replace* battery electric vehicles. The auto and oil industry used them to suck all the funding *away* from battery research and development. In fact, every time EVs begin to get serious press, and rising numbers of EVs manage to get out on the roads, fuel cells get trotted out *again* as a replacement. "We don't need EVs; why, in just a few more years, we'll have fuel cell vehicles perfected!" -- If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it
Sure, that question has merit. I only answered his first question. But the emissions I was particularly referring to were combustion emissions at the tailpipe...not CO2 emissions, which certainly are of relevance. But when the ZEV standards were adopted, the driver was nonattainment criteria pollutants. Efficiency certainly has bearing on GHGs, cost and other things, but is not the be all, end all. Or the hobbyists on this list would be arguing incessantly about ...everything. Clearly, at the tailpipe, nat gas v. H2 is "some emission number I don't know off the top of my head" versus zero. I guess if you go want to go beyond that you might assume worse case (?) that the cars are in the SCAQMD and the H2 is all produced by steam reformation in-basin. I don't know what that number looks like, but I'll bet it's still a huge advantage to use H2. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 23, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote: > > I think Ben's question still has merit, though. If you start with methane > and take it down two paths, what is the difference in emissions and > efficiency? The first path is burning the methane in an ICE. The second > path is converting the methane to hydrogen and using it in a fuel cell. It > seems like the hydrogen conversion is still likely to create CO2. How does > the hydrogen cycle reduce air pollution from using methane? > > Mike > > >> On April 23, 2015 7:28:17 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV >> wrote: >> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV >> wrote: >>> >>> Um...why not just use that methane as is? I mean, we already do -- >> every vehicle with a "CNG" or "LNG" sticker on it is burning methane. >> >> To reduce air pollution. That's why CARB adopted the ZEV mandate. >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
