[EVDL] EVLN: Kia Soul EV Test Drive: Fast Charging, Driving Far, Winter
http://gas2.org/2015/05/11/kia-soul-ev-test-drive-pt-2-fast-charging-and-driving-far/ Kia Soul EV Test Drive, Pt. 2: Fast Charging And Driving Far May 11th, 2015 by Christopher DeMorro [images http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150509_100841.jpg http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150509_101137.jpg (evse) http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150509_100708.jpg (front charging ports) ] I came around the corner to find my wife just exiting the bar where she works, ready to hop into the cool confines of the Kia Soul EV. I had found that using the air conditioning cost me between 2 and 5 miles from my estimated range calculator, but by driving into Hartford using city streets, rather than always-congested I-84, I was able to maximize the Soul EV’s range. In fact, on the 10-mile journey from my home to my wife’s place of employment, I spent just 4 estimated miles, even with the air conditioning on full blast (it was 90 degrees out, for the record). The journey home was the same deal, with the regenerative braking and activeECO modes reducing power but turning up the regenerative braking. This also meant I didn’t have to use the brakes nearly as much, and I never felt like I was driving in a way that was detrimental to other people on the roads (no creeping along under the speed limit or braking for 200 feet before every stop sign. That said, between dropping my wife off and running errands all day, I arrived home with the battery down to just one-third charge, prompting me to find a place to plug in the next day. I found my charging options down the street at Central Connecticut State University, and initially I plugged into a 240-volt Level 2 Charger, which told me I’d have to wait about 2 hours and 45 minutes for a full charge. That was when my wife called me over to the CHAdeMO/CSS Combo fast-charger also installed. had completely overlooked the fast-charger in my eagerness to plug in the Soul EV, which has a nifty pop-open charging dock where the grille would normally be. Estimated time for a charge dropped to just 39 minutes, giving the wife and I time to enjoy a leisurely stroll home before returning in our other car to recover the Soul EV. An hour later I retrieved the Soul EV, only to discover that the CHAdeMO charging station or the Soul EV stops the fast charging at about 80%. So instead of a full charge, I got a 50% charge (from about 35% to 83%), which gave me just enough range (an estimated 63 miles) to get down to my friend’s Jack and Jill party approximately 25 miles each way. Sure, I could have plugged into the Level 2 charger to top it off, but I had places to go and things to do! That said, I didn’t hesitate to take the Soul EV on the 50-mile round trip journey, feeling confident that the estimated range calculator was quite conservative, especially if I kept it in the regenerative braking-favored “B” driving mode. For this trip though, I kept it in D and even turned the activeECO mode off, giving me all the torque and horsepower to play with. I could really get used to driving an electric vehicle. No gearshifts to deal with, the acceleration is as smooth or as instant as you want, and everything is so quiet. It makes listening to music or having a conversation infinitely easier, and there were plenty of conversations to be had at the Jack and Jill. While the Soul EV didn’t exactly draw a crowd, blending in as well as it did with the gas burners in attendance, but it raised a lot of questions, especially from the older crowd, who had mixed responses and opinions. One guy called it “silly” and said electric cars would “never work”, while a fellow at least a decade his senior was absolutely fascinated. My Millennial-aged friends, however, were for the most part disinterested in the Soul EV, except for Pat, a fellow gearhead. I took him on a quick test drive, and he was impressed with the torque, silence, and well-appointed interior. Unfortunately (for Kia), Pat is one of the many of my generation who have moved into major metro areas; he sold his Subaru WRX with no intention of replacing it anytime soon. Electric cars may solve the problems of noise and pollution, but sometimes, there’s no getting around New York City traffic. Maybe that study about EVs and Millennials wasn’t all that far off the mark? All told, I travelled 45 miles round trip, but the Soul EV’s estimated range calculator only dropped from about 63 miles to 26, and so I never felt any sort of range anxiety. Without a home charger however, I would either have to drop the Soul EV off again at 10 PM in order to use it for the next day, or fall back on my gas-powered car. Not wanting to leave a $36,000 vehicle that doesn’t belong to me overnight in a parking lot, I opted to leave the Soul EV behind on Sunday morning in order to drive my wife into work. I definitely would have driven it had I a home charger, and the 26 miles should have been enough to get me there and back…but I didn’t want
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S P85D EV Breaks The Dyno
http://gas2.org/2015/05/18/warm-up-lap-tesla-p85d-breaks-the-dyno/
Warm-Up Lap: Tesla P85D Breaks The Dyno
May 18th, 2015 by Christopher DeMorro
[image
http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/warm-up-lap-tesla-p85d-breaks-th.jpg
video
https://www.youtube.com/embed/XqvCa1OfisU
]
We’ve all seen the power of the Tesla P85D demonstrated on the drag strip
time and again, giving those old gas guzzlers a real run for their money.
While the drivetrain of the P85D was designed to withstand 700 lb-ft of
torque, your standard dynamometer or “dyno” as it is typically called, is
designed with combustion engines in mind. What happens when the two come
together? One of them breaks, and it ain’t the Tesla.
We’ve seen a few videos of Teslas and dynos not getting along, as measuring
the torque and power of an electric car can prove difficult for dynos.
Earlier re reported that one dyno mistakenly claimed that the P85D had over
850 lb-ft of torque, and another dyno said that the P85+ made over 2000
lb-ft of torque.
This time though, the consequences were more than just a misreading. The
P85D goes from a slow roll to full power, and dumping 700 lb-ft of instant
torque onto the dyno and breaking one of the dyno belts.
[© gas2.org]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://transportevolved.com/2015/05/18/video-first-drone-video-lets-you-explore-tesla-motors-gigafactory-in-glorious-4k/
1st Tesla NV Gigafactory Explored with a Video-Flyover (v)
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/05/tesla-model-s-p85d-meets-porsche.html
Tesla-S P85D Meets The Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Leaves Impressed (v)
http://gas2.org/2015/05/11/project-to-build-open-source-street-legal-ev-underway/
Project To Build Open Source, Street-Legal EV Underway
The Luka EV is already well underway, pulling its design from open source
video game files rather than hiring a dedicated designer ...
http://insideevs.com/luka-ev-open-source-electric-car-hub-motors-186-miles-range-target-price-22445/
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/otago/342395/electric-bikes-allowed-rail-trail
300W e-bicycles allowed on otagocentralrailtrail.co.nz
http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/2015/05/12/charging-stationelectric-vehiclewny/27202191/
EVSE @Western New York, NY Mall
http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/05/14/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-turkey-creek/27336881/
Tesla installing electric vehicle charging stations at Turkey Creek
+
EVLN: Tesla-S EV Drivers Rewrite Code To Create Custom Programs
{brucedp.150m.com}
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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S Drivers Rewrite Code To Create Custom Programs
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/05/tesla-model-s-drivers-rewrite-code/
Tesla Model S Drivers Rewrite Code To Create Custom Programs
By: Vikas Shukla May 14, 2015
[images
http://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Tesla-Visible.png
Tesla Visible
http://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Visible-Tesla.png
]
While some automakers are trying to convince the U.S. government to let them
block access to their cars’ computers, some tech-savvy Tesla enthusiasts are
rewriting code in their Model S to make their cars do some interesting
stuff. The Palo Alto-based electric vehicle maker is yet to open up its
software to outside programmers. But some Model S owners have written code
to create custom programs.
Tesla user decodes the protocols
For instance, San Carlos-based Joe Pasqua has decoded the protocols Tesla
uses to communicate between the official Tesla iPhone app and the company’s
servers, reports Will Knight of MIT Technology Review. Pasqua has created an
app called Visible Tesla. This app uses the official app’s protocols to
monitor the status of Model S systems over time.
Pasqua said you can also use Visible Tesla to schedule commands. He told
Knight that people can do “all the basic control functions” using this app.
The program runs on a PC, but it can also be configured for access via the
Web. Dozens of Visible Tesla app users share data on how different driving
habits affect their cars’ batteries.
Visible Tesla can be configured for a variety of features
The app can also add new functionality to a car by giving commands based on
a number of factors such as location and time of the day. Pasqua has
configured his Visible Tesla app such that when he goes to his grocery store
parking lot, he gets a text message, “Remember your bags.” Pasqua is not the
only one tapping into Model S over the Internet.
Edward Arthur, who lives in southern Massachusetts, has written a program
that would check whether his Model S’ battery was charging at 9:30 AM. He
would get a text message if he had forgotten to plug it in. The Palo
Alto-based EV maker may offer a software development kit for Model S or its
future cars. But there are certain issues. It may make cars a target for
hackers.
[© 2015 Valuewalk.com]
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/tesla-finally-sets-date-for-affordable-model-3-debut.html/?a=viewall
Tesla-3 coming next March and likely won’t be on sale until 2017
May 17, 2015 Collin Woodard
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=subject%3Aevln+subject%3Atesla+-re&days=0&sort=date
Read more Tesla EVLN items on evdl
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://transportevolved.com/2015/05/18/video-first-drone-video-lets-you-explore-tesla-motors-gigafactory-in-glorious-4k/
1st Tesla NV Gigafactory Explored with a Video-Flyover (v)
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/05/tesla-model-s-p85d-meets-porsche.html
Tesla-S P85D Meets The Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Leaves Impressed (v)
http://gas2.org/2015/05/11/project-to-build-open-source-street-legal-ev-underway/
Project To Build Open Source, Street-Legal EV Underway
The Luka EV is already well underway, pulling its design from open source
video game files rather than hiring a dedicated designer ...
http://insideevs.com/luka-ev-open-source-electric-car-hub-motors-186-miles-range-target-price-22445/
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/otago/342395/electric-bikes-allowed-rail-trail
300W e-bicycles allowed on otagocentralrailtrail.co.nz
http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/2015/05/12/charging-stationelectric-vehiclewny/27202191/
EVSE @Western New York, NY Mall
http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/05/14/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-turkey-creek/27336881/
Tesla installing electric vehicle charging stations at Turkey Creek
+
EVLN: Tesla-S P85D EV Breaks The Dynamometer
{brucedp.150m.com}
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[EVDL] “EV Show” Ep5: Electric Fiat 500 Jolly, Formula E, Pack Balancing (v)
http://insideevs.com/ev-show-episode-5-electric-fiat-500-jolly-formula-e-battery-pack-balancing-video/
“EV Show” Episode 5: Electric Fiat 500 Jolly, Formula E, Battery Pack
Balancing – Video
[20150514] by Jay Cole
[image
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/fiat-500-jolley-ev-west-conversion.jpg
Fiat 500 Jolly EV West Conversion (nice shoes Mike)
video
https://youtu.be/59wpHD46zow
The EV Show - April 2015 - Episode 5 - Fiat Jolly 500 in Rancho Santa Fe
EV West May 11, 2015
In this episode Hutch and Michael drive a Fiat 500 Jolly through historic
Rancho Santa Fe, they recap the Formula E Long Beach Race, Trent gives an
overview of his electric dirt bike project, John reveals the winner of his
raffle for a Gravity Skateboard for the Ural project, Michael talks about
battery packs and an electric torque wrench, Jehu talks about battery bottom
balancing, Michael talks about interference fits for motor couplers, Hutch
brings you up to speed on the latest progress on the electric Ferrari
project, and there is an Ode to the Electric Burnout. Catch all the past
episodes at EVShow.com
]
Our friends over at EV West have put together another episode of the “EV
Show” (5th in the series), and the content and quality of the monthly
program continues to improve.
This particular episode features Hutch and Michael driving a converted (to
electric) Fiat 500 Jolly through Rancho Santa Fe, as well as an update on EV
West’s electric Ferrari project, a recap from the Formula E race in Long
Beach and a primer on battery balancing.
Always a good watch!
[© insideevs.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses
Some folks may wish to work with excel, and save locally. I would still offer the xls. -Chris On May 19, 2015 12:50:29 AM CDT, Lee Hart via EV wrote: >Mr23 via EV wrote: >> Lee, what about hosting your spreadsheets at your website, along with >> all the other technical information? > >That's a good idea. I'll do it. Thanks Mr23! > >Hmm... does anyone know if there's an easy way to have an online active > >spreadsheet, where the viewer can fill in his data online, and see the >results online? If I put it up as (for example) an .XLS file, people >would have to download it, and have the right version of Excel to run >it. If you know, contact me off-list, as it's getting off-topic for the > >EVDL. > >-- >A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is >nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. > -- Antoine de Saint Exupery >-- >Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- next part ------ An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/6e473270/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
How trite! Also, completely wrong. The current battery is what makes electric cars viable. Prior to now they were of limited value.I drive mine every day. Only time I don't drive it is when I use my truck to haul something or take the Corvette for a pleasure drive. From: len moskowitz via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 8:20 AM Subject: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/02e165f6/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses
Good info David. A 0.17 Cd, wow! Imagine a Sunrise with a pack made of Tesla type cells in it. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-Open-Source-Street-Legal-affordable-long-range-EV-4the-masses-tp4675590p4675657.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
> How trite!... Also, completely wrong. > The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 Here is my response to this stupid article: The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle transportation (and emissions)! Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them 3:to:1 on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in 2010, the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 with 15 EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold in America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is now $3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, then the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car? And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further bringing down that average cost (*after incentives). So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated legacy-thinking) claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is completely misguided and fails. Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OSV Tabby
(Opps, mis-replied initially, sorry Ron) It's hard to say what these guys are up to. There was another called the OS Car Project. Hopefully they are not the same kind of effort. I put some design effort into the OS Car Project a few years back. It was a problem at that time of leadership. It does suffer from a 'hobbyist' attitude. Nobody would commit to regulating the design goals down for the vehicle itself, and direct the team. They mostly spun wheels about the open source aspect. And about being 'democratic', which was to accommodate all desires. A final design is all about optimizing to a set of goals, and accepting the affects on other attributes. They floundered. Frankly, you can argue all you want about the intellectual process, or the tools of the trade for that mater, but if you don't design something you can't build it. And if you don't build something then what pray-tell are you accomplishing? I think they were mostly hoping someone would do what they were dreaming could be done. In some ways I was too, but at least I was willing to design something and make 'executive' decision about it. I think, in the OSVehicle effort you will need to find some similarities to Local Motors, if they are to get anywhere at all. If you are curious, here's a gateway link into my stuff after OSCarProject. Some electric, some not so much. Hint, find the link images and seek out the three collection, OSCS, Detalidon and Elio https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=18079aaf3596c55cc3845a76042e278f. Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:03:01 -0600 > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Subject: [EVDL] OSV Tabby > From: ev@lists.evdl.org > > https://www.osvehicle.com/ > > What does the list think of this? The basic idea seems to be to get an open > source EV design out there for people to build on. > > They claim that the chassis meets requirements for on-road licensing in US > and Europe, but I'm guessing that it'll take more than a bare chassis to be > street legal. > > Also the claim of 1 hour build time seems to be with 2 well-practiced people > and a ready to go frame. And a shop much better equipped than mine! > > Ron - mobile > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150515/a8eedfd3/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/1f20603d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
I think the main point of the article is that most families that can't afford (or can't have for other reasons) two cars will continue to chose and ICE car over an EV. This is purportedly because, even though the EV will accomodate 80-90% of their driving needs, that other 10% is too much of a hurdle. That is, they don't consider renting an ICE car for that other 10% to be a viable option. You can agree or disagree but until there are more EVs that are "affordable" and can go 200+ miles on a charge, he's claiming "it's the battery, stupid". Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 19-May-15 8:31:52 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. How trite!... Also, completely wrong. The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 Here is my response to this stupid article: The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle transportation (and emissions)! Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them 3:to:1 on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in 2010, the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 with 15 EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold in America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is now $3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, then the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car? And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further bringing down that average cost (*after incentives). So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated legacy-thinking) claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is completely misguided and fails. Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
Then again you could purchase a second hand Volt/Ampera and drive electric for 95% of the time with a four cylinder ICE for longer journeys.Very cost effective now they are being released from business leases and I haven't fuelled mine for over two months. From: Peri Hartman via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, 19 May 2015, 17:02 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. I think the main point of the article is that most families that can't afford (or can't have for other reasons) two cars will continue to chose and ICE car over an EV. This is purportedly because, even though the EV will accomodate 80-90% of their driving needs, that other 10% is too much of a hurdle. That is, they don't consider renting an ICE car for that other 10% to be a viable option. You can agree or disagree but until there are more EVs that are "affordable" and can go 200+ miles on a charge, he's claiming "it's the battery, stupid". Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 19-May-15 8:31:52 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. >> How trite!... Also, completely wrong. >> The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... >http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 > >Here is my response to this stupid article: > >The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an >Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of >gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. > >Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of >EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but >they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of >local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle >transportation (and emissions)! > >Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner >will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them >3:to:1 >on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? > >You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in >2010, >the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 with 15 >EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average >cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold >in >America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is now >$3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, >then >the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car? > >And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further >bringing >down that average cost (*after incentives). > >So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated >legacy-thinking) >claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST >satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? > >What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is >completely misguided and fails. > >Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html > >Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like >yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS >SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let >those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. > >Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. > >Bob, WB4APR >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/4eb49b79/attachment-0001.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
Not stupid at all. You just resent the facts presented in the case. If you want EV's to succeed, you need to face what potential customers think. Solve their issues, and whalla, Success! Stupid or not, those are your customers. The article just simply laid out their thinking. Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:31:52 -0400 > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? > It's the battery. > From: ev@lists.evdl.org > > > How trite!... Also, completely wrong. > > The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... > http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 > > Here is my response to this stupid article: > > The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an > Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of > gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. > > Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of > EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but > they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of > local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle > transportation (and emissions)! > > Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner > will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them 3:to:1 > on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? > > You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in 2010, > the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 with 15 > EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average > cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold in > America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is now > $3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, then > the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car? > > And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further bringing > down that average cost (*after incentives). > > So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated legacy-thinking) > claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST > satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? > > What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is > completely misguided and fails. > > Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html > > Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like > yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS > SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let > those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. > > Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5806538e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
It's the same old argument only its not valid. All we are witnessing now is the adoption curve. All new technology takes time to catch on. Everyone I have let drive my car said, "oh, this is just like a car". 1 out of ten go out and buy one after driving one. In my experience Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: > > Not stupid at all. You just resent the facts presented in the case. If you > want EV's to succeed, you need to face what potential customers think. Solve > their issues, and whalla, Success! Stupid or not, those are your customers. > The article just simply laid out their thinking. > > > > > Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > >> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:31:52 -0400 >> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? >> It's the battery. >> From: ev@lists.evdl.org >> >>> How trite!... Also, completely wrong. >>> The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... >> http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 >> >> Here is my response to this stupid article: >> >> The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an >> Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of >> gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. >> >> Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of >> EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but >> they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of >> local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle >> transportation (and emissions)! >> >> Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner >> will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them 3:to:1 >> on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? >> >> You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in 2010, >> the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 with 15 >> EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the average >> cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold in >> America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is now >> $3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury Tesla, then >> the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the average gas car? >> >> And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further bringing >> down that average cost (*after incentives). >> >> So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated legacy-thinking) >> claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST >> satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? >> >> What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is >> completely misguided and fails. >> >> Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html >> >> Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like >> yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS >> SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let >> those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. >> >> Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. >> >> Bob, WB4APR >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5806538e/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
> I think the main point of the article is that most families > that can't afford (or can't have for other reasons) two cars > will continue to chose an ICE car over an EV. So BIG deal! Less than 1/3rd of Americans only have access to one car. So why can't these 30% get out of the way of the 70% solution which works perfectly for the other 70%. > You can agree or disagree but until there are more EVs > that are "affordable" and can go 200+ miles on a charge, > he's claiming "it's the battery, stupid". The car that can go 200 miles on a charge will forever be FAR LESS AFFORDABLE than the one that can go 80 miles daily and satisfy 80% of all drivers needs. Most of that 80% DON'T WANT a 200 mile range if it is going to cost them nearly DOUBLE the car price. His claim about "stupid"... should be "Its education and understanding, stupid"... This is the same lethargy of those clueless individuals who are still "waiting for higher efficiency" solar panels, when TODAY's panels cost less than a common window! And 83% of the cost of a solar system is the labor. They will be waiting forever... Wheras the existing systems can cut one's energy costs in HALF if they simply buy now. And every year they wait, they are losing a YEAR of free electricity for life... Rant off... Bob, WB4APR -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 19-May-15 8:31:52 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. >> How trite!... Also, completely wrong. >> The current battery is what makes electric cars viable... >http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=3710&doc_id=277584 > >Here is my response to this stupid article: > >The basis of your uninformed claim "Yes, Electric Cars Still Need an >Innovative Battery" is your century and 3 generation old legacy of >gas-tank/gas-station narrow minded thinking. > >Authors who write about EV's with that legacy are blind to the value of >EV's. Yes, EV's do not meet ALL of the versatility of the gas car, but >they DO meet (and far exceed by a factor of three or more) the value of >local travel and commuting which is over 80% of our national vehicle >transportation (and emissions)! > >Why are you so dead set against the 80% solution (which every EV owner >will tell you gives them 100% satisfaction and in fact saves them >3:to:1 >on operating costs. And costs LESS than the average Gas car? > >You are quoting 2008 technology, and market, and thinking. Sure in >2010, the first EV's cost more than comparable gas cars. But by 2013 >with 15 EV's on the market and the $5k price drop by Nissan and GM, the >average >cost* of an EV broke even with the average costs of all gas cars sold >in America ($31k). By 2015, the average price* of all EV's ($29k) is >now $3k LESS than the average gas car and if you ignore the Luxury >Tesla, then the average EV cost* ($26k) is now $5k less than the >average gas car? > >And by the end of 2015, there are 40 EV's on the market further >bringing down that average cost (*after incentives). > >So where on earth can you make your outlandish (outdated >legacy-thinking) >claim about batteries when people who buy EV's represent the HIGHEST >satisfied car customers and their cars fully meet their needs? > >What is missing is awareness and education . of which your article is >completely misguided and fails. > >Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html > >Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like >yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS >SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let >those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. > >Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. > >Bob, WB4APR >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/4eb49b79/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
The battery HAS > >> SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let > >> those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. > >> > >> Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. > >> > >> Bob, WB4APR > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5806538e/attachment.htm> > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/965b3023/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
; > >> Please see http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html > >> > >> Sorry for the tone. But it is gas driving authors with articles like > >> yours that are holding back EV sales, not the battery. The battery HAS > >> SUCCEEDED in bringing us the ideal local-travel and commuter car. Let > >> those that can use it buy it and get out of the way. > >> > >> Sorry for the tone. But rants feel good sometimes.. > >> > >> Bob, WB4APR > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5806538e/attachment.htm> > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/965b3023/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/410cb9e5/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity. --Rick On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone. I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol, 5min ok, 10min not so much) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
wow, so I see, your answer for the general public is to live where EV's will
work? That's very draconic of you, and presumptive. I live where I live because
I must.
This is the reason many people drop out of the EV interest, obtuse requirements
and limitations.
If you are trying to save the planet, by scrunching all people to less than
30mi from work? That's not a sustainable goal(for many reasons). But of course,
everyone living more than 30 isn't either. The real answer is limiting world
population's to less than 5billion and we know that won't fly either.
Seriously, I checked with BMW, the price is $46k. The range is 70-80miles. The
price is way too high and range too short to suit my need.
Anyway, I'm back to dropping out until a more amenable world of ideas prevails.
Point done. I leave the floor.
Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG )
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:14:18 -0400
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better?
> It's the battery.
> From: ev@lists.evdl.org
>
> I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles
> each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity.
>
> --Rick
>
> On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote:
> > I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone.
> >
> > I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had
> > to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and
> > monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my
> > work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol,
> > 5min ok, 10min not so much)
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
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Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
First off, there are hundreds of options in personal transportation. Not one vehicle fits all needs so person must choose. This doesn't change just because you're driving and electric vehicle it doesn't suit all needs but neither does a truck or station wagon or Corvette you get the picture. As for the BMW it has extended range have another 70 or 80 miles on gasoline. Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2015, at 2:35 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: > > wow, so I see, your answer for the general public is to live where EV's will > work? That's very draconic of you, and presumptive. I live where I live > because I must. > > This is the reason many people drop out of the EV interest, obtuse > requirements and limitations. > > If you are trying to save the planet, by scrunching all people to less than > 30mi from work? That's not a sustainable goal(for many reasons). But of > course, everyone living more than 30 isn't either. The real answer is > limiting world population's to less than 5billion and we know that won't fly > either. > > Seriously, I checked with BMW, the price is $46k. The range is 70-80miles. > The price is way too high and range too short to suit my need. > > Anyway, I'm back to dropping out until a more amenable world of ideas > prevails. Point done. I leave the floor. > > > > > > > Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > >> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:14:18 -0400 >> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales >> Better? It's the battery. >> From: ev@lists.evdl.org >> >> I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles >> each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity. >> >> --Rick >> >>> On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: >>> I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone. >>> >>> I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had >>> to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and >>> monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my >>> work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol, >>> 5min ok, 10min not so much) >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5d81fab1/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
EVs aren't the answer for everyone... Different horses for different courses... Regards, Stephen On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Paul Dove via EV wrote: > First off, there are hundreds of options in personal transportation. Not > one vehicle fits all needs so person must choose. This doesn't change just > because you're driving and electric vehicle it doesn't suit all needs but > neither does a truck or station wagon or Corvette you get the picture. As > for the BMW it has extended range have another 70 or 80 miles on gasoline. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 19, 2015, at 2:35 PM, Arak Leatham via EV > wrote: > > > > wow, so I see, your answer for the general public is to live where EV's > will work? That's very draconic of you, and presumptive. I live where I > live because I must. > > > > This is the reason many people drop out of the EV interest, obtuse > requirements and limitations. > > > > If you are trying to save the planet, by scrunching all people to less > than 30mi from work? That's not a sustainable goal(for many reasons). But > of course, everyone living more than 30 isn't either. The real answer is > limiting world population's to less than 5billion and we know that won't > fly either. > > > > Seriously, I checked with BMW, the price is $46k. The range is > 70-80miles. The price is way too high and range too short to suit my need. > > > > Anyway, I'm back to dropping out until a more amenable world of ideas > prevails. Point done. I leave the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > > > >> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:14:18 -0400 > >> To: ev@lists.evdl.org > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales > Better? It's the battery. > >> From: ev@lists.evdl.org > >> > >> I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles > >> each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity. > >> > >> --Rick > >> > >>> On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: > >>> I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone. > >>> > >>> I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had > >>> to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and > >>> monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my > >>> work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol, > >>> 5min ok, 10min not so much) > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5d81fab1/attachment.htm > > > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/120e6c20/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
Part of the problem is that for a lot of the population there aren't 15 different EV's available... there are two. The Nissan Leaf and and Tesla S. And maybe the Mitsubishi -- not sure if they are still offering it here. I see the Leafs everywhere around here, and usually see a Tesla at least a few times a week -- so sales of those are doing pretty well here. Since we aren't in a compliance state, all of the other dealerships can't get their manufacturers EV's to sell though. I would prefer the utility of a Kia Soul or even a NV200 van over the Leaf, but can't get those here (I've asked.). On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Stephen via EV wrote: > EVs aren't the answer for everyone... Different horses for different > courses... > > Regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Paul Dove via EV > wrote: > > > First off, there are hundreds of options in personal transportation. Not > > one vehicle fits all needs so person must choose. This doesn't change > just > > because you're driving and electric vehicle it doesn't suit all needs but > > neither does a truck or station wagon or Corvette you get the picture. As > > for the BMW it has extended range have another 70 or 80 miles on > gasoline. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On May 19, 2015, at 2:35 PM, Arak Leatham via EV > > wrote: > > > > > > wow, so I see, your answer for the general public is to live where EV's > > will work? That's very draconic of you, and presumptive. I live where I > > live because I must. > > > > > > This is the reason many people drop out of the EV interest, obtuse > > requirements and limitations. > > > > > > If you are trying to save the planet, by scrunching all people to less > > than 30mi from work? That's not a sustainable goal(for many reasons). But > > of course, everyone living more than 30 isn't either. The real answer is > > limiting world population's to less than 5billion and we know that won't > > fly either. > > > > > > Seriously, I checked with BMW, the price is $46k. The range is > > 70-80miles. The price is way too high and range too short to suit my > need. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm back to dropping out until a more amenable world of ideas > > prevails. Point done. I leave the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:14:18 -0400 > > >> To: ev@lists.evdl.org > > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales > > Better? It's the battery. > > >> From: ev@lists.evdl.org > > >> > > >> I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 > miles > > >> each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity. > > >> > > >> --Rick > > >> > > >>> On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: > > >>> I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone. > > >>> > > >>> I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had > > >>> to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and > > >>> monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my > > >>> work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol, > > >>> 5min ok, 10min not so much) > > >> ___ > > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > -- next part -- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5d81fab1/attachment.htm > > > > > > ___ > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV dra
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
Hi Arak and All, Well you did say that since EV's didn't fit 30% of the population needs it wasn't good on an EV list kind of should expect blowback. EV's to sell millions only needs 10% of the market range isn't the problem. The problem is lack of choices, lack of salespeople to sell what there is, advertising by those selling them. And their lack of RE plug, mounting points so any EV can have unlimited range. Or for Alum/Zinc/air RE giving 1,000 mile range. These RE's are proven, viable solution big auto won't use is why EV's are moving slow. But you have other solutions like a used Volt or something you could do easily, get a Karman Ghia and convert to a Volt or other 15kw+ pack should get an easy 120 mile range for around $10k. On lead they have used just 100wthr/mile. Or make a BrubakerBox type Van on a VW chassis.On living near work you take 400+ hrs or 10 work weeks just going to, coming from work plus transport costs so he had a valid point even if you can't do anything about it. Jerry Dycus From: Arak Leatham via EV To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery. wow, so I see, your answer for the general public is to live where EV's will work? That's very draconic of you, and presumptive. I live where I live because I must. This is the reason many people drop out of the EV interest, obtuse requirements and limitations. If you are trying to save the planet, by scrunching all people to less than 30mi from work? That's not a sustainable goal(for many reasons). But of course, everyone living more than 30 isn't either. The real answer is limiting world population's to less than 5billion and we know that won't fly either. Seriously, I checked with BMW, the price is $46k. The range is 70-80miles. The price is way too high and range too short to suit my need. Anyway, I'm back to dropping out until a more amenable world of ideas prevails. Point done. I leave the floor. Arak Leatham - ( My hobby: I want 300 MPG ) > Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:14:18 -0400 > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? > It's the battery. > From: ev@lists.evdl.org > > I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles > each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity. > > --Rick > > On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote: > > I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone. > > > > I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had > > to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and > > monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my > > work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol, > > 5min ok, 10min not so much) > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/5d81fab1/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150519/57f10915/attachment-0001.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses
I am responding to the message from Lee Hart regarding the LUKA EV. I am the person driving the project so I can answer all the questions raised... I will check this post works before I write the very long response. It is my first time on this forum.. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.
On 19 May 2015 at 22:52, jerry freedomev via EV wrote: > Hi Arak and all, Well you did say that since EV's didn't fit 30% of the > population needs it wasn't good on an EV list kind of should expect > blowback. Well said Jerry, but Arak isn't listening. Thus challenged, he got indignant and unsubscribed. :-( Let us not forget the immortal Fidonet Principles: Thou shalt not be too annoying. Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed. I'm sympathetic with some of his points, though. Most of us here don't think EVs have to manage all the missions and trips that ICEVs can, but we're not normal vehicle buyers. The average person is not going to pay an ICEV price for a car that does less and covers fewer of his transporation needs than an ICEV does. That's just normal, rational consumer behavior. To really take off, EVs that look and cost like ICEVs have to work like ICEVs. EVs that don't, don't. Hint, hint. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
