Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Cal Frye via EV]

It can be done:
http://www.costcoauto.com/new_cars/results.aspx?modelid=28407&modelyear=2016

> *From:* EVDL Administrator via EV 
> *Date:* August 30, 2016 at 10:54 AM
> *To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> *Subject:* [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off
> 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose
>
> I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator


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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Chris Tromley via EV]

I have little doubt that there are all sorts of contractual restrictions
regarding who Nissan can sell to directly, what constitutes an acceptable
fleet buyer, etc.  The only rational way to do this is to contact Nissan
first, before putting anyone's name on a list.

There is no justifiable reason for anyone to get "ticked off".  This was
poorly executed from the start.

The only reason this happened is that people were already ticked off at how
hard it is to buy a Leaf in the first place.  The solution starts with
dealers who want to sell them.
On Aug 30, 2016 10:54 AM, "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
wrote:

> On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>
> > If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to
> costco,
> > walmart, and the boy scouts.
>
> I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I think it would be great. I'm not sure Nissan (and others) want to 
undercut their dealerships.


-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 30-Aug-16 7:54:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 
3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose



On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to 
costco,

 walmart, and the boy scouts.


I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 30 Aug 2016 at 14:35, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to costco,
> walmart, and the boy scouts.

I think I'd probably be OK with buying a Leaf at Costco.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Or maybe Nissan just doesn't want to step on the slippery slope of group 
buys. If non dealerships can buy wholesale, then they will be selling to 
costco, walmart, and the boy scouts.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Rick Beebe via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 30-Aug-16 5:00:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 
3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose


Of course we don't really know if there was negotiation or not. It says 
they "rejected the group buy offer" but that could mean they rejected 
the group buy OR they rejected the offer. Maybe they counter-offered 
and it was too rich for the group. Just like we don't really know if 
the groups hope of $20k was just a hope or whether they had actually 
gotten that number from someone at Nisaan.


--Rick

 On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV 
 wrote:


 I was surprised that Nissan's answer was "No" instead of a counter 
offer.  Entering into a negotiation would have been appropriate.


 Mike


 On August 29, 2016 7:50:47 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 wrote:
 Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first 
talking

 to Nissan.


 Sent from AltaMail


 From: Rick Beebe via EV  To: Electric Vehicle
 Discussion List  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca 
sez
 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose 
Date:

 8/29/16, 6:27 PM


 One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that
 target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that
 price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if 
you


 would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout
 how
 much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a 
loss.
 And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car 
when


 they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first.

 --Rick


 On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, 
Canada

 set up
 a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people 
initially

 signed

 up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had

 climbed up
 to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate 
HQ

 in

 Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of

 numbers

 (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the

 sticker

 price of the car.

 The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S 
Trim.

 The
 members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get 
Nissan

 to sell

 the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn

 of
 events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy 
offer

 and

 effectively shut down the plan.


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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Of course we don't really know if there was negotiation or not. It says they 
"rejected the group buy offer" but that could mean they rejected the group buy 
OR they rejected the offer. Maybe they counter-offered and it was too rich for 
the group. Just like we don't really know if the groups hope of $20k was just a 
hope or whether they had actually gotten that number from someone at Nisaan.

--Rick

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV  wrote:
> 
> I was surprised that Nissan's answer was "No" instead of a counter offer.  
> Entering into a negotiation would have been appropriate.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>> On August 29, 2016 7:50:47 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
>>  wrote:
>> Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first talking
>> to Nissan.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from AltaMail
>> 
>> 
>> From: Rick Beebe via EV  To: Electric Vehicle
>> Discussion List  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez
>> 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose Date:
>> 8/29/16, 6:27 PM
>> 
>> 
>> One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that  
>> target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that  
>> price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you
>> 
>> would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout
>> how  
>> much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss.  
>> And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when
>> 
>> they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first. 
>> 
>> --Rick 
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: 
>>> In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada
>> set up 
>>> a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially
>> signed 
>>> up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had
>> climbed up 
>>> to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ
>> in 
>>> Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of
>> numbers 
>>> (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the
>> sticker 
>>> price of the car. 
>>> 
>>> The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim.
>> The 
>>> members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan
>> to sell 
>>> the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn
>> of 
>>> events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer
>> and 
>>> effectively shut down the plan.
>> 
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>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) 
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160830

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Hey-BUDD-e-are-you-for-real-VW-noise-td4683544.html
EVLN: 'Hey BUDD-e are you for real?' (VW noise)
Volkswagen BUDD-e Concept Awarded For Futuristic Design
The Volkswagen BUDD-e, an electric concept car unveiled at the International
Consumer Electronics Show this past January, was applauded for its look into
the ... 

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2580mi-Kia-Soul-EV-UK-Route57-Trip-v-400mi-Leaf-30kW-e-trip-td4683545.html
EVLN: 2580mi Kia Soul EV UK Route57 Trip (v) ... 400mi Leaf-30kW e-trip
In the end, the Kia Soul EV seems to have done the job admirable, and
perhaps the trip was easier than first expected. With help from Zap Map
charging point ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Hyundai-has-Soul-EV-remotely-auton-self-park-amp-return-park-v-went-viral-td4683546.html
EVLN: Hyundai has Soul EV remotely auton self-park & return-park (v went
viral)
 ... video of a Kia Soul EV parking itself went viral ... The self-driving
Soul EV was granted a test-drive license in Nevada last December (the 17th
of its kind in the state). The vehicle then completed a successful test ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Some-Dealerships-Don-t-Want-to-Sell-You-an-Electric-Car-td4683547.html
Some Dealerships Don't Want to Sell You an Electric Car
VW declined to comment, but Ford replied that the only required ... $4000
for two charging stations—and that in order for a dealership to be eligible
to become EV certified ...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.0catch.com}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Hyundai has Soul EV remotely auton self-park and return-park (v went viral)

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Hyundai-has-Soul-EV-remotely-auton-self-park-amp-return-park-v-went-viral-td4683546.html
]

http://koreabizwire.com/video-of-hyundais-automatic-parking-ev-impresses-car-enthusiasts/65055
Video of Hyundai’s Automatic Parking EV Impresses Car Enthusiasts
August 26, 2016  Kevin Lee

[image  
http://koreabizwire.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/09fd5a65-1b16-4906-9363-8ec57746df94.jpg
The self-driving Soul EV was granted a test-drive license in Nevada last
December (the 17th of its kind in the state). The vehicle then completed a
successful test drive on the state’s test track in the January of this year.
(image: Hyundai)


video
https://youtu.be/4UyBq8a5H9M
(Korean>translate.google>English)
Kia Soul EV, completely self-parking (Autonomous) Video (Video of KIA Motors
SOUL EV with the Autonomous Valet Parking)
Hyundai Motor (HYUNDAI) Aug 24, 2016
After the driver is getting off to start a fully autonomous parking space,
issue the command to find!  Go to the autonomous without a driver,
Vehicle self-ground / underground, in the space of an indoor / outdoor
Explore the car parking space to publish the Kia Soul EV to perform video
Parking, chulcha.
Check out the video in full control of the parking Kia Soul EV!
]

SEOUL, Aug. 26 (Korea Bizwire) – Hyundai Motor Group’s YouTube video of a
Kia Soul EV parking itself went viral among car enthusiasts, accumulating
over 200,000 views in less than a day. 

The video, which was filmed at Hyundai’s research institute in Gyeonggi
Province (Uiwang), shows a driver stepping out of a vehicle and using his
remote car key to have it drive into an underground parking lot to park
itself. The clip then shows the car driving out of the parking lot, above
ground, to park itself in another outdoor parking space.

According the group, this is Hyundai’s Autonomous Valet Parking (AVP)
technology revealed for the first time. The technology allows a car to
autonomously search for a parking space, park, and even un-park itself.
Furthermore, the AVP has the ability to expand its search of parking spaces
in congested traffic. 

The Kia Soul EV introduced in the video is also equipped with other
intelligent and safety technologies, such as Highway Autonomous Driving,
Urban Autonomous Driving, Traffic Jam Assist, Emergency Stop System, and
Preceding Vehicle Following. 

The self-driving Soul EV was granted a test-drive license in Nevada last
December (the 17th of its kind in the state). The vehicle then completed a
successful test drive on the state’s test track in the January of this year.
[© koreabizwire.com]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}

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[EVDL] Some Dealerships Don't Want to Sell You an Electric Car

[brucedp5 via EV]

'Even plug-in hybrids aren’t getting the push they merit'

http://blog.caranddriver.com/some-dealerships-dont-really-want-to-sell-you-an-electric-car/
Some Dealerships Don’t Really Want to Sell You an Electric Car
AUGUST 24, 2016  BENGT HALVORSON | PHOTOGRAPHY BY GETTY IMAGES, MULTIPLE
PHOTOGRAPHERS

A shopper in Texas, looking for the new Chevrolet Volt [pih], was told that
there wasn’t one within 1000 miles. At a California dealership, meanwhile,
there were more than 20 Volts in stock, and personnel noted that Chevy’s
plug-in hybrid is their top-selling car—and that it “flies off the lot.” 

Both dealership visits were around the same time, this spring, and the
shoppers were taking notes on their experience as part of a broad survey
about the electric-car shopping experience, organized by the environmental
organization Sierra Club. The results point out that while some dealerships
do go above and beyond to sell plug-in models, many are simply deciding it’s
not worth the time or effort. And they beg a reality check: If you were a
Chevy dealer in Texas, would you stock Volts? Or Silverados? 

Some of the conclusions of the organization’s Rev Up EVs survey and report
point to greater issues facing automakers as they try to market and sell
such models. Electric cars remain a tough sell to those outside a relatively
narrow, self-selected group of buyers concentrated along the West Coast and
in the urban Northeast—those who lock on to EVs’ green credentials and
aren’t fazed by things like a limited range, a somewhat higher price, or an
often low resale value. Stray outside those areas, and you’ll be much more
likely to be disappointed by dealerships that don’t necessarily have plug-in
vehicles in stock, don’t know where to charge them, or aren’t clued in about
incentives.

In Some Places, Batteries Not Included?
The case of the elusive Chevy Volt in Texas suggests that even plug-in
hybrids aren’t getting the push they merit. Such models don’t have the same
range concerns as all-electric vehicles, and the latest version of the Volt
can go 53 miles in pure electric mode and achieve an EPA-rated 42 mpg as a
hybrid. 

“We put an emphasis on making sure there’s inventory in markets where
there’s the strongest demand,” said GM spokesman Fred Ligouri, who notes
that about 50 percent of Volts are sold in California. “It certainly is
still important to us to provide a supply in remaining parts of the market;
it’s not always the case that dealers will have equal inventory, but the
capability for a customer to walk in and place an order, provided (the
dealership is) Volt certified, remains a priority.”

“
The reality is that electric vehicles—and the infrastructure that supports
them—unfortunately don’t yet suit the needs, desires, or budgets of most car
buyers.
— Jared Allen, NADA
”

The phrase “Volt certified” underscores a major point: At Chevrolet—and most
other vehicle brands—dealerships aren’t required to sell or stock every
product. Ligouri couldn’t say exactly what’s involved in becoming certified,
although he said that, looking ahead to the all-electric Chevrolet Bolt EV,
the automaker is engaging with its dealerships in a “readiness” program. 

“We are excited by the interest in Bolt EV and anticipate that we will have
a large and robust retail network to help sell those vehicles,” he said.
“But, similar to products like the Corvette or the heavy-duty Silverado,
there are some stores that have not or do not sell those vehicles.”
Salesperson and shopper - Getty Images/gilaxia

The report was compiled using survey data from 174 volunteers, who visited
more than 308 dealerships, with an emphasis on California and the nine
states that have signed on to the California Air Resources Board (CARB)
zero-emissions vehicle mandate. The Sierra Club points out that its survey
was not designed to be statistically representative. To that, Jared Allen, a
spokesman for the National Automobile Dealers Association, notes that it’s
“neither statistically nor anecdotally representative of how franchised
dealerships market EVs or—more importantly—why consumers do or do not choose
to buy EVs.” 

Push, Pull, or Drag 
Allen points to the elephant in the room: “Franchised auto dealers are in
the business of helping consumers find vehicles that best suit their needs,
desires, and budgets. And the reality is that electric vehicles—and the
infrastructure that supports them—unfortunately don’t yet suit the needs,
desires, or budgets of most car buyers.” 

The NADA has been a booster for electric vehicles—it has even put out a
guide for dealerships on how to sell them—yet Allen cages it with this:
“Dealers know better than anyone that, at the end of the day, the consumer
is king, and until the gap closes between what consumers demand out of their
vehicles (from price to range to resale value to refueling options) and what
EVs can provide, sales will likely remain restrained.” 

The same conflicts surely apply to many other brands, at which