Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Thank you all..

So, from the CAN bus point of view it would be more a 'software' challenge
and like some of you said; every model and even every vehicle version, may
have different propietary protocols, etc.
- We are talking of using a device like the one Collin suggests. Collin; I
think it is ok to advertise as long it is usefull to people on this forum,
like me.
- This new device would totally replace the ECU module thru the CAN bus.
- Would be a very clean and Pro. installation. Since software is easy to
reproduce, cost could be really low once developed correctly.

Cons:
- There could be impossible/unsolved codes on certain models or vehicles.
- every new vehicle-model would be a high cost-testing time to resolve.


On the other hand; Simulate the engine would imply a 'hardware' challenge,
plus some firmware development and as long the sensors doesn't change too
much from one model or brand to another, it could be a possiblity to go?
- Working on the engine sensors, would be mostly analog signals and some
digital ones, easier to code and control
- Could be a generic board, for several vehicles regardless the version of
sensors, year, etc.
- CAN bus after the ECU would be kept totally clean and orignal betewwn all
devices.

Cons:
- More than 10 outputs to simluate all sensors required, maybe 20?.
- Hardware PCB to design and manufacture and test on automitive environment


Cor, thank you for those suggestions on the Sparkplugs and Cat converter.
Something comes to my mind, doing the simulation board.. doesn´t necessarly
need to have all sensors wired and simulated. It is like when some sensor
fails (on a gas version), it triggers some DTCs and lights up the 'check
engine' light, but but the vehicle still working. And as long our desired
devices are working too (such steering, turn signals, AC, etc) in Gas
version, then it should do on electric too.

Collin, This CANDue is a fully free programmable unit I can put my code for
replacing the ECU? I may contact you off list to get more details on this

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Tom Parker via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 04/01/17 04:50, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:
>
> I don't think that generic sales pitches are acceptable on this list
>> but since it is topically relevant I'd like to quickly mention that I
>> am involved in the creation of many pieces of hardware and software to
>> aid in these things.
>>
>> CANDue: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=EVTVDue2=23
>> SavvyCAN: http://www.savvycan.com
>>
>
> Along these lines, the audio from https://xi.hope.net/schedule.h
> tml#-2016-car-hacking-tools- is worth a listen and gives links to
> http://opengarages.org/index.php/Tools (which includes Colin's SavvyCAN)
> and other resources.
>
> More advanced, https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8131-dieselgate_a_year_later
> shows how to glitch a VW ECU to bypass the flash read-protect and retrieve
> a firmware image (also the technical Dieselgate information is interesting
> but off topic). Going from a firmware image to an emulated ECU is probably
> the hard way to make a modern car work without it's ICE.
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Collin,

Great links, wish I had known about them for my Insight... thanks

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 8:50 AM
>
> CANDue: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=EVTVDue2=23
> SavvyCAN: http://www.savvycan.com



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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks guys for all that great info. Lots of really good advice there.

Happy to report both battery packs have now been safely removed and I am
still alive!

And looking forward to further discussions on the EVDL.

Regards,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 3 January 2017 at 19:56, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Just in the past weeks I have been working on removing and installing
> batteries. The key is to have non-lethal voltage as long as you can as
> well as avoid short circuits.
> When I dig into a Nissan Leaf pack (which I am now re-creating in a
> different configuration in my EV truck's battery box) the first thing is
> to break the connection between the different sub-packs so each is lower
> voltage than the total (380V or 2x 190V as soon as you have pulled the
> Service Disconnect mid-pack.
> When re-assembling, I deliberately leave the straps/cables that
> interconnect the sub-packs off until the very last moment, so I am only
> dealing with sets that are about 72V each.
> Then there are typically the exposed wire ends. If I can remove the
> complete cable on both ends, I do the two ends while I am holding the
> cable so there is no point in insulating it. If I need to attach one end
> (because it is going into an inaccessible location) but can't attach the
> other end yet, then I will wrap it in electrical tape that I can remove
> when I am ready to attach the cable.
>
> When a sub-pack is still a very Lethal voltage, like the Nissan Leaf
> having one set that is 190V, I check to see if there is a way I can
> protect it (Leaf has 3 covers that go over the connections of this set,
> so you can still limit your exposure) or a way to break the circuit, for
> example removing the screws from a strap and pulling it up so it breaks
> the set in two separate electrical circuits.
>
> Also: never work with two or more on the pack. If one touches something
> on one side and the other person is working on the other side and they
> touch each other or both touch the same conducting object (metal battery
> box) then they get a nasty shock or worse. Even when working with your
> own two hands, keep them together so you don't straddle a high voltage.
> There is wisdom in the saying that when interacting with high voltage,
> keep one hand behind your back.
> Note that this advise is for when working with bare hands - I drop too
> many screws when I try gloves and I hate wearing them, so I always work
> with my bare hands - which requires me to work very careful. Also use a
> Voltmeter to verify that a battery is isolated and not leaking to ground
> (frame/enclosure) since that can still build up a nasty voltage.
> The only moment I do wear gardeners gloves is to protect my hands from
> sharp metal edges when carrying/handling heavy metal assemblies such as
> lifting the sub-packs.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 10:02 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
>
> Thos True wrote:
> > Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to lead to some
> > nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged batteries and
> > battery boxes. Hope that this helps!
>
> That reminds me. Electrical cables have some nasty surprises that can
> cause serious mischief.
>
> Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents. If a cable does
> flop around and short to something, the high current makes it into an
> electromagnet. It can JUMP and squirm like a snake, and in the process
> cause other shorts and mayhem.
>
> With a high short-circuit current, the insulation can melt off a wire in
>
> seconds. Now you have a BARE wire lying across your batteries. Or, if
> that wire is bundled into a harness, the heat can melt the insulation
> off the other wires, causing more short. Now Murphy really has some fun!
>
> And let's not even think about what happens if someone used cheap non
> UL-listed wire with combustible insulation.
>
> Also, once a high voltage DC arc starts, it is hard to stop. It can
> continue to arc across an amazing distance -- many inches when there's
> enough molten metal and debris feeding into the arc. Also, an arc can
> set melt or set just about anything on fire.
>
> So it pays to be extra careful!
>
> --
> "Hold my beer and watch this!" -- (script for a Youtube video 

Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 04/01/17 04:50, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:


I don't think that generic sales pitches are acceptable on this list
but since it is topically relevant I'd like to quickly mention that I
am involved in the creation of many pieces of hardware and software to
aid in these things.

CANDue: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=EVTVDue2=23
SavvyCAN: http://www.savvycan.com


Along these lines, the audio from 
https://xi.hope.net/schedule.html#-2016-car-hacking-tools- is worth a 
listen and gives links to http://opengarages.org/index.php/Tools (which 
includes Colin's SavvyCAN) and other resources.


More advanced, https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8131-dieselgate_a_year_later 
shows how to glitch a VW ECU to bypass the flash read-protect and 
retrieve a firmware image (also the technical Dieselgate information is 
interesting but off topic). Going from a firmware image to an emulated 
ECU is probably the hard way to make a modern car work without it's ICE.


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Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Lee Hart via EV]

I've used a number of things over the years.

Insulation does a *lot* to reduce the power needed for heating/cooling. 
If you have 1" of styrafoam on all sides of your batteries, and you 
drive your EV every day, you probably won't need heaters. The waste heat 
produced by battery resistance during driving and charging should be 
sufficient to keep them warm.


If you live in a hot climate, you may actually have to COOL them. 
Battery life is greatly reduced by high temperatures.


1. Plastic signboard with nichrome resistance wire threaded through the 
"tunnels". No good. I got hot spots that melted the plastic in some 
areas, and didn't provide enough heat in others.


2. Commercial battery heating "blanket", intended to wrap around an 
ICE's 12v starting battery. They produce lots of heat, since they have 
negligible insulation. A single 100w battery blanket was enough to heat 
an entire battery box with six golf cart batteries and 1" of styrafoam 
insulation. The blanket was flat, and stood on edge between the rows of 
batteries (3 batteries, blanket between them, 3 batteries). This worked 
pretty well with no thermostat (I just plugged it in when the battery 
got cold, not plugged in when they were warm).


3. Electric blanket, taken apart, with the resistance wire spread out 
around the battery box. The wire in modern electric blankets is actually 
a 2-conductor cable, with a carbon loaded material between them to act 
as a resistor. It automatically regulates its temperature at around 
60-90 deg.F. Soil heating wire, and home floor heating wire have the 
same construction.


This worked well, but you have to be *very* careful not to bend it 
sharply or pinch it (like having a battery sit directly on it). If you 
do, it will fail!


4. Nichrome resistance wire from an old electric blanket or battery 
heating pad: The single wire can produce hot spots, so I removed it from 
its packaging, and glued it to a sheet of aluminum the size of the floor 
of my battery box. Use high-temperature silicone rubber; the type used 
for sealing furnace ducts and flue pipes.


This worked, but was messy and lumpy. I installed them aluminum side up, 
with a 1/2" thick sheet of styrafoam underneath it to act as a pad and 
prevent pinching the wire anywhere. Over time, battery acid (these were 
lead-acid flooded batteries) attacked the aluminum, though the heater 
still worked.


5. My most recent design used nichrome heating wire from a battery 
heating pad. I stuck it to an aluminum sheet with double-sided carpet 
tape, then put the whole thing in a polyethylene bag (2 sheets, 
heat-sealed at the edges). Then I potted it with a 2-part silicone 
rubber compound that would set even without air inside the bag (I used 
Dow Corning Sylgard 170). I mixed it, dumped it in the bag, and then 
sandwiched it between two pieces of carpet padding and piled old 
batteries on top to squeeze out the excess. That gave me an encapsulated 
waterproof acid-proof heating pad to put in the bottom of my battery boxes.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Just in the past weeks I have been working on removing and installing
batteries. The key is to have non-lethal voltage as long as you can as
well as avoid short circuits.
When I dig into a Nissan Leaf pack (which I am now re-creating in a
different configuration in my EV truck's battery box) the first thing is
to break the connection between the different sub-packs so each is lower
voltage than the total (380V or 2x 190V as soon as you have pulled the
Service Disconnect mid-pack.
When re-assembling, I deliberately leave the straps/cables that
interconnect the sub-packs off until the very last moment, so I am only
dealing with sets that are about 72V each.
Then there are typically the exposed wire ends. If I can remove the
complete cable on both ends, I do the two ends while I am holding the
cable so there is no point in insulating it. If I need to attach one end
(because it is going into an inaccessible location) but can't attach the
other end yet, then I will wrap it in electrical tape that I can remove
when I am ready to attach the cable.

When a sub-pack is still a very Lethal voltage, like the Nissan Leaf
having one set that is 190V, I check to see if there is a way I can
protect it (Leaf has 3 covers that go over the connections of this set,
so you can still limit your exposure) or a way to break the circuit, for
example removing the screws from a strap and pulling it up so it breaks
the set in two separate electrical circuits.

Also: never work with two or more on the pack. If one touches something
on one side and the other person is working on the other side and they
touch each other or both touch the same conducting object (metal battery
box) then they get a nasty shock or worse. Even when working with your
own two hands, keep them together so you don't straddle a high voltage.
There is wisdom in the saying that when interacting with high voltage,
keep one hand behind your back.
Note that this advise is for when working with bare hands - I drop too
many screws when I try gloves and I hate wearing them, so I always work
with my bare hands - which requires me to work very careful. Also use a
Voltmeter to verify that a battery is isolated and not leaking to ground
(frame/enclosure) since that can still build up a nasty voltage.
The only moment I do wear gardeners gloves is to protect my hands from
sharp metal edges when carrying/handling heavy metal assemblies such as
lifting the sub-packs.

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 10:02 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

Thos True wrote:
> Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to lead to some
> nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged batteries and
> battery boxes. Hope that this helps!

That reminds me. Electrical cables have some nasty surprises that can 
cause serious mischief.

Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents. If a cable does 
flop around and short to something, the high current makes it into an 
electromagnet. It can JUMP and squirm like a snake, and in the process 
cause other shorts and mayhem.

With a high short-circuit current, the insulation can melt off a wire in

seconds. Now you have a BARE wire lying across your batteries. Or, if 
that wire is bundled into a harness, the heat can melt the insulation 
off the other wires, causing more short. Now Murphy really has some fun!

And let's not even think about what happens if someone used cheap non 
UL-listed wire with combustible insulation.

Also, once a high voltage DC arc starts, it is hard to stop. It can 
continue to arc across an amazing distance -- many inches when there's 
enough molten metal and debris feeding into the arc. Also, an arc can 
set melt or set just about anything on fire.

So it pays to be extra careful!

-- 
"Hold my beer and watch this!" -- (script for a Youtube video for the 
Darwin award)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Thos True via EV]

We have had excellent results using water bed heaters in our projects.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I have 4 battery boxes for my LiFePo4 cells. Two hold 8 cells, one holds
> 12, and the big one holds 28. They are aluminum boxes I had made by
> customaluminumboxes.com and I oversized them 2" in all directions. I put
> 1" foam insulation around the batteries. I bought 10 battery heating pads
> from KTA. They're some kind of mica sheets with heating elements in them
> sized to fit under a 12v starter battery. I put one each in the small
> boxes, 2 in the medium box and 6 in the large box with the cells sitting on
> top of them. I heat them from shoreline power when the truck is plugged in.
> I figure I want the batteries warm when I leave for better range and the
> insulation will help them stay warm during my travels. They worked great
> BUT failed partway through the third winter. My big box had too much flex
> and the brittle panels broke.
>
> The pads in the little boxes were fine so I replaced the 6 pads in the big
> box with two of these silicone rubber heating pads:
> http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=batheater=16. Very expensive
> but flexible. So far they're working well.
>
> --Rick
>
>
>
> On 1/3/2017 1:59 AM, ken via EV wrote:
>
>>   whats a good for heating batteries ?
>> water bed heater pad ?
>> What else could be used?
>>
>
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-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 3 Jan 2017 at 12:01, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents.

This is where I refer you to the story of how former EVDLer John "Plasma 
Boy" Wayland got his nickname (short version).

http://evdl.org/pages/plasmaboy.html

Please read it!  It could save your life.

John's an entertaining writer, but there's nothing funny about this tale.  A 
good EV battery can easily deliver around 300kW for some minutes. That's 
about as much power as 6 to 12 typical home power systems!  

Some EV batteries can produce even more than that.  The amount of raw power 
on tap is just stupefying.  It demands deep respect.

John's lucky he wasn't incinerated, along with his bystanders, his car, his 
garage, and his house. Please, read his story, and learn from his mistake.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 3 Jan 2017 at 15:29, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:

> Tried replying to a couple of conversations and it didn't work. 

Sorry about that.  Like everything else connected to email these days, the 
EVDL has spam filters.  And like all spam filters, sometimes they get a 
little over-enthusiastic and zap messages that aren't really spam.  I know 
it happens,  because I've had a few of my own messages bumped.  :-\

If you have a problem like this, please forward the messages you tried to 
post.  Send them to me (complete with headers if possible) at the address on 
this page:

http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

I'll try to figure out what might be sidelining your posts.

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 3 Jan 2017 at 7:57, Jim Walls via EV wrote:

> This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back to
> the list.

Well, not exactly.  The "reply to list" flag is indeed set on the EVDL 
software.

However, there are some email clients that still want to direct the reply to 
the original poster.  Thus you're right that in some email systems, though 
not all, you may still have to hit the "reply to all" button.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Cor van de Water via EV]

ent sensors). But it would be a nice
device
> if
> same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.
> 
> - The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
> microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many
of
> other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
> specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those
devices
> to
> correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering
as
> example.
> 
>  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model
and
> vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would
be
> a
> monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't
it?
> 
> 
> I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand
CAN
> bus
> at the communication/physical level.
> 
> Any thougths or suggestions?
> 
> 
> Marco Gaxiola
> EnergyEV.com
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Re: [EVDL] Offer: DCP Raptor 600

[Cor van de Water via EV]

spare/backup controller.
>
> Jay
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have 4 battery boxes for my LiFePo4 cells. Two hold 8 cells, one holds 
12, and the big one holds 28. They are aluminum boxes I had made by 
customaluminumboxes.com and I oversized them 2" in all directions. I put 
1" foam insulation around the batteries. I bought 10 battery heating 
pads from KTA. They're some kind of mica sheets with heating elements in 
them sized to fit under a 12v starter battery. I put one each in the 
small boxes, 2 in the medium box and 6 in the large box with the cells 
sitting on top of them. I heat them from shoreline power when the truck 
is plugged in. I figure I want the batteries warm when I leave for 
better range and the insulation will help them stay warm during my 
travels. They worked great BUT failed partway through the third winter. 
My big box had too much flex and the brittle panels broke.


The pads in the little boxes were fine so I replaced the 6 pads in the 
big box with two of these silicone rubber heating pads: 
http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=batheater=16. Very 
expensive but flexible. So far they're working well.


--Rick


On 1/3/2017 1:59 AM, ken via EV wrote:

  whats a good for heating batteries ?
water bed heater pad ?
What else could be used?


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[EVDL] The Incandescent Inferno

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>  I used a lightbulb to test the Curtis 1231C controller
> and it was able to control the bulb when I pressed on the throttle, so...

I’m reminded of my post last summer I painted the bottom of my hood
white for two reasons:

1) mounted two 60W (equivalent) 120v LED bulbs on it (powered from 120v
traction battery).  With the hood up, I can see everywhere without shadows
for troubleshooting...

2)  Also mounted a set of nine 600W theater lights (total 5600W load) with a
bypass switch from the motor controller for testing and woo-wooing the
neighborhood

Actually, the dimmable LED's have an A/B switch for either connection to the
battery (troubleshooting at night)  or motor.  Even with the hood closed.
The woo-woo illumination leakage from under the hood of the LED's connected
to the motor should leave no doubt that its an EV under the hood.  Or I can
open the hood and flip the other switch to the 5000W theatre lights and
woo-woo the entire area.

What's the use having an EV unless you can make sure everyone sees it is
electric...

But alas, this is a retirement project and it is not road ready yet... still
waiting for a 1.21 jiggawatt flux capacitor..

Actually, the photos on the web show some nice designs just three LED
dome lights and some pizzaz should look nice...

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[paul dove via EV]

> I tryed to find other threads about this subject but did not find any,
> at
> least not recently. So I decided to post this one, hope that someone has
> already face this problem and become able to fully convert newer models
> without affect most OEM features from the vehicle.
> 
> If someone has done this, please share your experience. But if not, let
> me
> explain my thoughs and share your comments/feedback of what you think or
> suggest me to do:
> 
> - My first idea is to design a small PCB with a micro on it, that would
> simulate most ot the analog and digital signals that the ECM needs from
> all
> the sensors on the gas engine to keep it running like the water
> temperature
> sensor, oil pressure, cranckshaft sensor, oxigen and manifold sensors
> (MAF
> and MAP), etc.  My theory is that this could be a simple way (since most
> sensors are analog 0-12V, 0-5V of On/off outputs) that are not so
> complex
> to emulate, and doing this way; the ECM would believe the ICE is there
> running all fine and perfectly.
> 
>  Of course, the algorithm and maybe some of the simulated PCB outputs
> would have to be changed on every different model of vehicle. (every
> manufacturer uses many different sensors). But it would be a nice device
> if
> same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.
> 
> - The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
> microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many of
> other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
> specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices
> to
> correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
> example.
> 
>  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
> vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be
> a
> monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?
> 
> 
> I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN
> bus
> at the communication/physical level.
> 
> Any thougths or suggestions?
> 
> 
> Marco Gaxiola
> EnergyEV.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Lee Hart via EV]

Thos True wrote:

Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to lead to some
nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged batteries and
battery boxes. Hope that this helps!


That reminds me. Electrical cables have some nasty surprises that can 
cause serious mischief.


Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents. If a cable does 
flop around and short to something, the high current makes it into an 
electromagnet. It can JUMP and squirm like a snake, and in the process 
cause other shorts and mayhem.


With a high short-circuit current, the insulation can melt off a wire in 
seconds. Now you have a BARE wire lying across your batteries. Or, if 
that wire is bundled into a harness, the heat can melt the insulation 
off the other wires, causing more short. Now Murphy really has some fun!


And let's not even think about what happens if someone used cheap non 
UL-listed wire with combustible insulation.


Also, once a high voltage DC arc starts, it is hard to stop. It can 
continue to arc across an amazing distance -- many inches when there's 
enough molten metal and debris feeding into the arc. Also, an arc can 
set melt or set just about anything on fire.


So it pays to be extra careful!

--
"Hold my beer and watch this!" -- (script for a Youtube video for the 
Darwin award)

--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Lee Hart via EV]

Matthew Quitter wrote:

I've been using a small styrofoam cup as quick insulation... didn't seem 
adequate.


That does seem a bit risky. Not very strong, and falls off easily.


So there's no product that anyone sells that's built for purpose?


No doubt someone sells an (expensive) custom product for it.


A rubber sleeve with some sort of oneway binding that allows the cable to be 
inserted easily but stops it falling off unless tugged.


I use ad hoc solutions. If I can't find a piece of heat-shrink tubing or 
hose that's a snug fit, or am worried that it might fall off, I'll just 
tape it on.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter

[Lee Hart via EV]

ROBERT wrote:

Thanks. Lee. I need to study your reply. I need to get to work.


You're welcome! This is a complicated subject. Remember, electric motors 
and inverters have had 100+ years of development by some of the 
brightest minds in science and engineering -- all the way from Edison, 
Tesla, and Steinmetz to Alan Cocconi and J.B Straubel today. You're not 
going to pick all of that up quickly. Truly, we stand on the shoulders 
of giants.


What helped me get past all the competing theories and confusing 
descriptions was to do my own little experiments and tests. I got an old 
4-channel audio amplifier, and an assortment of little 24vac AC motors 
(aircraft motors, TV antenna rotator motors, etc.)


I generated AC waveforms with hardware circuits on a solderless 
breadboard (and later, a little microcomputer). I amplified them and 
applied them to the motors. I rigged a motor-generator setup with a DC 
generator as the output, so I could easily load it and  measure power. I 
measure things with an oscilloscope and a motley collection of meters.


A few things I learned:

- You don't need expensive equipment. I probably spent less than
$200-$300 on the whole thing.
- Audio amplifiers wildly exaggerate the power they can provide.
(I blew out a lot of output transistors.)
- There is only about a 10% efficiency benefit from perfect sinewaves
vs. plain old "modified square wave" inverters.
- The benefits from "smart" inverter algorithms (that carefully
optimize the precise voltage, frequency, and waveform) are in
the "corner" cases -- starting from a dead stop, minimizing
noise or torque pulsations, etc. "Close" is good enough for
just driving down the road.
- Getting honest AC measurements is tricky. It's easy to get fooled
by cheap meters and bad measurement technique.
- Consumer-grade motors have low efficiency (like 70%), no matter
how you drive them (no magic efficiency cures).

Once I had a intuitive understanding of how it all worked, I built a big 
SCR inverter and used it to drive a 15KW aircraft alternator as a motor. 
I ran this in one of my homebuilt EVs. It worked, but wasn't any better 
than a plain old forklift motor and PWM controller. The technology was 
too early, I was too inexperienced, and I didn't have the resources 
(budget) to perfect it.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue Jan 03 07:57:02 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back
>to the list.  If you don't remember to manually add the list into the

Only if your Email reader is broken.
List msgs have a Reply-To: header that includes both the list and the original 
sender.
(Personally, I'd rather it be List only, as the original sender is about 
99.999% likely to be receiving the list msgs, and they don't really need to see 
the same msg twice.)



--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Thos True via EV]

Matt,

Having been involved with building (and rebuilding), and racing EV's for a
couple of decades, I have found the heat shrink tube method preferable, but
in situations where this is not readily available, other methods also work.
The two most common are wrapping the exposed ends in at least 2 layers of
#33 or #88 electrical tape, or using the fingers cut from rubber coated
gloves taped in place with whatever tape you have available (racetrack
example here!). Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to
lead to some nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged
batteries and battery boxes.
Hope that this helps!

-Tom True

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Matthew Quitter via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. Great that I can now interact with the list. Have
> enjoyed being a spectator for a while but wanted to get involved.
>
> I've been using a small styrofoam cup as quick insulation... didn't seem
> adequate.
>
> So there's no product that anyone sells that's built for purpose?
>
> A rubber sleeve with some sort of oneway binding that allows the cable to
> be inserted easily but stops it falling off unless tugged.
>
> Have searched online but only found domestic small cabling solutions.
>
> > On 3 Jan 2017, at 16:56, Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
> >> I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables
> during installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something.
> >
> > I slide on a piece of heat-shrink tubing (small wires) or a piece of
> rubber hose (big wires or terminals).
> >
> > --
> > Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> > Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> > implement, test, and execute!
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks for your reply. Great that I can now interact with the list. Have 
enjoyed being a spectator for a while but wanted to get involved. 

I've been using a small styrofoam cup as quick insulation... didn't seem 
adequate.

So there's no product that anyone sells that's built for purpose? 

A rubber sleeve with some sort of oneway binding that allows the cable to be 
inserted easily but stops it falling off unless tugged. 

Have searched online but only found domestic small cabling solutions. 

> On 3 Jan 2017, at 16:56, Lee Hart  wrote:
> 
> Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>> I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables during 
>> installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something.
> 
> I slide on a piece of heat-shrink tubing (small wires) or a piece of rubber 
> hose (big wires or terminals).
> 
> -- 
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Lee Hart via EV]

Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:

I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables during 
installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something.


I slide on a piece of heat-shrink tubing (small wires) or a piece of 
rubber hose (big wires or terminals).


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Lee Hart via EV]

Jim Walls via EV wrote:

This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back
to the list.  If you don't remember to manually add the list into the
address (or use "Reply all"), the list won't get the message.  My personal
opinion is that this is a dumb way to set up a list, but this is not my
list, so I don't make that decision.  None of mine are set up this way...


Interesting. When I hit "reply" (like to this email), the reply 
automatically goes to *both* the EVDL list  *and* to 
whoever sent the original post (in this case to .


I find this convenient, because if I want the reply to *only* go to the 
list, I can delete the original poster's address. Or if I want my reply 
to go only to him, I can delete the EVDL address.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Lee Hart via EV]

Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:

Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
and it didn't work.


Hi Matthew,

Yes, it arrived in my email IN box nice and clear. You're connected! :-)

--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

That's great, and I'm in the UK too!

I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables during 
installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something. 

I'm about to remove a battery pack from an EV conversion. 

Regards,
Matthew

> On 3 Jan 2017, at 15:42, Russ Sciville <rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Yep (from the UK)
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> From: Matthew Quitter via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 15:29
> Subject: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
> 
> Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
> and it didn't work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew
> 
> 07966 806 727
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> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Jim Walls via EV]

This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back 
to the list.  If you don't remember to manually add the list into the 
address (or use "Reply all"), the list won't get the message.  My personal 
opinion is that this is a dumb way to set up a list, but this is not my 
list, so I don't make that decision.  None of mine are set up this way...
  
 Jim
  
  
  
  

 From: Matthew Quitter via EV   > Firstly, does anyone 
get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
> and it didn't work.
>
> Thanks,
> Matthew


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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Russ Sciville via EV]

Yep (from the UK)
Russ

  From: Matthew Quitter via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
 Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 15:29
 Subject: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
   
Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
and it didn't work.

Thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Collin Kidder via EV]

that would allow to talk to many of
>> other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
>> specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices to
>> correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
>> example.
>>
>>  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
>> vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be a
>> monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?
>>
>>
>> I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN bus
>> at the communication/physical level.
>>
>> Any thougths or suggestions?
>>
>>
>> Marco Gaxiola
>> EnergyEV.com
>> -- next part --
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>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Keeping Ken warm : Whats a good for heating batteries?

[Roland via EV]

ml

Electric Vehicle Discussion List - Keeping Ken warm : What's good for heating 
batteries?<http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Keeping-Ken-warm-Whats-a-good-for-heating-batteries-tp4685232.html>
electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com
Keeping Ken warm : What's good for heating batteries?. [ref 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Regen-on-AC-Inverter-tp4685222p4685231.html
 battery heating...



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state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles (EVs). We define an 
EV as a ...



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EVDL EV News Archive - Electric Vehicle Discussion List<http://evdl.org/evln/>
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EVLN - EV News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home | help | 
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[paul dove via EV]

I have never done it myself but I have heard of many people doing this. They 
get a can bus logger and log the data as they do various things in the vehicle, 
like brake, shift gears, etc. then they look at the data to what's changing. 
It's a grueling process but effective. My friend hooked up a logic analyzer 
that decodes can and figured out quite a fed codes on his iMiEV.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 2:02 AM, Marco Gaxiola via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> I'm in the middle of a 2013 EV conversion project (well is not a very
> recent), but as some of you may know; newer vehicles comes with more and
> more electronics that operation of some devices and features of the vehicle
> relies on the ICE data and information being generated by the ECM (OEM
> computer) thru the CAN Bus.
> 
> When you convert a vehicle like this, you face some problems by the
> abscence of the running engine such:
> - non electric powered steering.
> - non operation of the AC unit (assuming the AC compressor and everything
> is there like original).
> - non working turn signals.(some models with digital turn signals)
> - missing gauges on the instrument cluster like RPMs, speedometer, etc.
> plus a bunch of red and amber known warning lights on. (and of course a lot
> of DTC codes when reading the OBD port)
> - etc...
> 
> I tryed to find other threads about this subject but did not find any, at
> least not recently. So I decided to post this one, hope that someone has
> already face this problem and become able to fully convert newer models
> without affect most OEM features from the vehicle.
> 
> If someone has done this, please share your experience. But if not, let me
> explain my thoughs and share your comments/feedback of what you think or
> suggest me to do:
> 
> - My first idea is to design a small PCB with a micro on it, that would
> simulate most ot the analog and digital signals that the ECM needs from all
> the sensors on the gas engine to keep it running like the water temperature
> sensor, oil pressure, cranckshaft sensor, oxigen and manifold sensors (MAF
> and MAP), etc.  My theory is that this could be a simple way (since most
> sensors are analog 0-12V, 0-5V of On/off outputs) that are not so complex
> to emulate, and doing this way; the ECM would believe the ICE is there
> running all fine and perfectly.
> 
>  Of course, the algorithm and maybe some of the simulated PCB outputs
> would have to be changed on every different model of vehicle. (every
> manufacturer uses many different sensors). But it would be a nice device if
> same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.
> 
> - The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
> microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many of
> other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
> specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices to
> correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
> example.
> 
>  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
> vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be a
> monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?
> 
> 
> I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN bus
> at the communication/physical level.
> 
> Any thougths or suggestions?
> 
> 
> Marco Gaxiola
> EnergyEV.com
> -- next part --
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> 

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[EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
and it didn't work.

Thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727
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Re: [EVDL] Offer: DCP Raptor 600

[Pestka Denis via EV]

I've been running the DCP 1200 in my Datsun for almost 8 years.

www.evalbum.com/1366<http://www.evalbum.com/1366>.



Thanks;

Dennis



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Mike Beem via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:28 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Offer: DCP Raptor 600

That was the *GOOD* DCP controller; I had an early one in my first real
conversion (http://www.evalbum.com/238) which had a 192v lead acid pack. I
Michael Bearden's 1983 BMW 320iS - evalbum.com<http://www.evalbum.com/238>
www.evalbum.com
Owner: Michael Bearden: Owner's Other EVs: 1958 Gogomobile 1987 Ford Escort: 
Location: Petaluma, California US map: Email: Vehicle: 1983 BMW 320iS: Motor: 
General ...



made the mistake of "upgrading" to the 1200. And, as Cor said, the
capacitors are definitely the common failure point.
Adding to the flea market here, I have a PFC-30 charger available to sell,
(which has just been back through the Manzanita shop) along with a complete
licensed EV (http://www.evalbum.com/4181) with (!) California HOV stickers.
Michael's 1987 Ford Escort - evalbum.com<http://www.evalbum.com/4181>
www.evalbum.com
Owner: Michael Bearden: Owner's Other EVs: 1983 BMW 320iS 1958 Gogomobile: 
Location: Petaluma, California US map: Email: Vehicle: 1987 Ford Escort Wagon 
EscortEV ...



Michael B

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I have a DCP Raptor 600 sitting in my garage, including a set of
> capacitors for replacement as that seems to be what causes the Raptor to
> eventually fail. There are versions that are upgraded to 1200 Amps but
> this is the original 600A. It is spec'ed for a 156V pack, meaning that
> it can handle a peak voltage of 200V.
> It is used and was working, it has a Hall-effect throttle control
> (included)
> Make me an offer.
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
Proxim - Wireless Broadband, Backhaul Solutions and Access 
...<http://www.proxim.com/>
www.proxim.com
Proxim Wireless offers licensed and unlicensed point to point, backhaul, 
bridge, point to multipoint, wireless broadband and wireless access points.



>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jay Summet via
> EV
> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2017 7:53 PM
> To: Lee Hart; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?
>
>
> >
> > It ain't easy to fix the Curtis 1231C, but it is possible (I've done
> > it). A lot depends on just how much damage was done when it failed. It
> > might be worse opening it up to take a look. If not too badly damaged,
> > get it fixed.
> >
>
> I've been doing a lot of reading about that today ;>
>
> I feel that I could handle swapping out the diodes and mosfets. But I
> don't want to mess with the logic board.  This may be a project to try
> out after I get the truck back on the road with a replacement
> controller, just to have a spare/backup controller.
>
> Jay
>
>
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> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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U

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170103

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Which-used-EV-should-you-buy-gt-i3-Soul-Leaf-Zoe-Tesla-S-e-Golf-td4685240.html
EVLN: Which used EV should you buy?> (i3, Soul, Leaf, Zoe, Tesla-S, e-Golf)
Used electric cars: should you buy one?
 ... As electric vehicles (EVs) become more popular, there are more models
... Buying a used conventional car can be difficult enough, but if you're
... If neither of these options are open to you, then you'll be reliant on
the UK's EV charging network ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-donald-owned-a-Tesla-S-EV-gt-garaged-w-Ferrari-Maybach-MBenz-amp-RollsRoyce-ice-td4685239.html
EVLN: donald owned a Tesla-S EV> garaged w/ Ferrari,Maybach,MBenz&
RollsRoyce ice
Donald Trump owned two American cars; one was a Tesla
But Trump has owned at least one electric car. Last year, his campaign told
The Washington Post that a Tesla was one of two American-made cars ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EVs-must-constantly-monitor-their-cells-gt-Else-fires-like-Samsung-Note7-phones-td4685238.html
EVLN: EVs must constantly monitor their cells> (Else fires like Samsung
Note7 phones)
New Electric Vehicle Battery Sensor Design Could Reduce EV Costs
Battery-powered electric vehicles utilize electricity that is stored in a
battery pack to power an electric motor which then drives the wheels
forward. Once the ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Gov-uk-crackdown-on-rip-off-7-50-per-half-hour-EVSE-charges-for-electric-cars-td4685237.html
Gov.uk crackdown on rip-off £7.50 per half-hour EVSE charges for electric
cars
Ministers are preparing to tackle overpriced electric car charging amid
fears that it can cost as much to run a green vehicle as a conventional
diesel ... Extortionate electric car charging costs to be reined in ... The
government is planning to attack excessive charges for electric car ...
rules ... (2017) to make costs for charging cars “consistent and
transparent” ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Dealing-with-EVs-that-hog-EVSE-nz-gt-Tow-away-laws-amp-signage-works-best-td4685236.html
Dealing with EVs that hog EVSE.nz> (Tow-away laws& signage works best)
Vector to deal with electric cars that hog charging spaces
The problem, in this case, is some owners of electric vehicles treat
charging stations outside Vector's Auckland head office as free car parks
...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Cor van de Water via EV]

-12V, 0-5V of On/off outputs) that are not so
complex
to emulate, and doing this way; the ECM would believe the ICE is there
running all fine and perfectly.

  Of course, the algorithm and maybe some of the simulated PCB outputs
would have to be changed on every different model of vehicle. (every
manufacturer uses many different sensors). But it would be a nice device
if
same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.

- The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many of
other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices
to
correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
example.

  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be
a
monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?


I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN
bus
at the communication/physical level.

Any thougths or suggestions?


Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com
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[EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I'm in the middle of a 2013 EV conversion project (well is not a very
recent), but as some of you may know; newer vehicles comes with more and
more electronics that operation of some devices and features of the vehicle
relies on the ICE data and information being generated by the ECM (OEM
computer) thru the CAN Bus.

When you convert a vehicle like this, you face some problems by the
abscence of the running engine such:
- non electric powered steering.
- non operation of the AC unit (assuming the AC compressor and everything
is there like original).
- non working turn signals.(some models with digital turn signals)
- missing gauges on the instrument cluster like RPMs, speedometer, etc.
plus a bunch of red and amber known warning lights on. (and of course a lot
of DTC codes when reading the OBD port)
- etc...

I tryed to find other threads about this subject but did not find any, at
least not recently. So I decided to post this one, hope that someone has
already face this problem and become able to fully convert newer models
without affect most OEM features from the vehicle.

If someone has done this, please share your experience. But if not, let me
explain my thoughs and share your comments/feedback of what you think or
suggest me to do:

- My first idea is to design a small PCB with a micro on it, that would
simulate most ot the analog and digital signals that the ECM needs from all
the sensors on the gas engine to keep it running like the water temperature
sensor, oil pressure, cranckshaft sensor, oxigen and manifold sensors (MAF
and MAP), etc.  My theory is that this could be a simple way (since most
sensors are analog 0-12V, 0-5V of On/off outputs) that are not so complex
to emulate, and doing this way; the ECM would believe the ICE is there
running all fine and perfectly.

  Of course, the algorithm and maybe some of the simulated PCB outputs
would have to be changed on every different model of vehicle. (every
manufacturer uses many different sensors). But it would be a nice device if
same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.

- The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many of
other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices to
correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
example.

  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be a
monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?


I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN bus
at the communication/physical level.

Any thougths or suggestions?


Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com
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