Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu [Free Supercharging!]

[Gary Neal via EV]

I just priced the mid-range model.  With the lowest options available and 
including incentives, prices comes out to ~$37,000 = getting awfully close to 
their $35k target!

Thanks,
Gary

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of paul dove via EV
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 10:20 PM
To: gaildlu...@earthlink.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Cc: paul dove 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu [Free 
Supercharging!]

Mid range battery model 3 now available 
https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#payment

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Gail Lucas via EV  wrote:
> 
> Mark, I agree 100%. Twenty years ago when I was doing "show and tell" with my 
> Citicars and conversions I could only dream that a car like the Tesla would 
> appear and revolutionize the whole EV industry. The EV1 looked promising but 
> we all know what happened to it. I have ridden in a Tesla and understand why 
> people love it, plus the safety is outstanding. Only thing I could possibly 
> complain about was the lack of a handle over to door to pull myself in.
> 
> Gail
> 
> 
>> On 10/18/2018 7:33 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
>> You’re absolutely correct.
>> In most cases the negativity impacts the stock, not the product or the 
>> consumer.
>> Despite some of legitimate comments made here about the failure to deliver 
>> on its promises, what Tesla HAS delivered is incredible.
>> For those who find the price not affordable to them, I think two things are 
>> true:
>> - Tesla is having enough problems keeping up with demand for its 
>> current product line. A lower priced car, with even greater demand, 
>> would have squeezed their resources even more;
>> - Tesla’s appearance and impact in the market, and what they’ve accomplished 
>> for the perception of EVs overall, has resulted in the availability of 
>> lower-priced availability of great EVs of all types from other manufacturers.
>> IMHO, we’ve passed the tipping point for EVs, and Tesla gets much of the 
>> credit for it happening so quickly.
>> - Mark
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

   
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of the EV 
industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?



  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
   
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

  
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Well you got me on that point of view. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Lawrence 
Winiarski wrote:   Well if the Idea of Homicidal, 
Petroleum producers, having control of the EV industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?



  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
  
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

  
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

You’re too late - Total bought the biggest EV charging company in the UK.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of the EV 
> industry doesn't bother you
> How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?
> 
> 
> 
>  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
> 
> The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford 
> or Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
> because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
> product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  
> 
>   
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

You can look at this two ways. One is that the petroleum industry will 
do everything to protect their base and kill EVs. The other is that some 
may recognize that their days relying on petroleum are limited and they 
need to branch out. Those who do it right will be big winners. I won't 
say it's a bed of roses when mega corporations get involved. They will 
be in it to make a profit and, with that, will come politics and less 
consumer intimacy. But they will make the industry grow.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
To: "Lawrence Winiarski" ; "Electric 
Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Sent: 19-Oct-18 4:36:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

You’re too late - Total bought the biggest EV charging company in the 
UK.


- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Oct 19, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV 
 wrote:


Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of 
the EV industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer 
Research?




 From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" 
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a 
Ford or Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes 
Suburbans.  It's because of how well the car meets their needs That 
they buy stock or use the product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..



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[EVDL] Apple Converter ensures EV comforts don't suffer load-transients

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/10/apple-invents-a-battery-system-designed-to-keep-electric-or-hybrid-vehicle-creature-comforts-working-at-all-times.html
Apple invents a Battery System Designed to keep Electric or Hybrid Vehicle
Creature Comforts working at all times
October 18, 2018  

[images  
http://www.patentlyapple.com/.a/6a0120a5580826970c022ad373ecaf200c-800wi
Apple converter architecuture for electric vehicle

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/2ubso9uiyo6m0ig0/images/1-674fa73af0.jpg

http://www.patentlyapple.com/.a/6a0120a5580826970c022ad3b99f45200b-pi
cover volkswagen apple vehicle
]

Back in May Patently Apple posted a report titled "Apple's Autonomous
Shuttle Service will use Volkswagen Vans." This is where Apple's Project
Titan is starting – with autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicles. Apple also
uses Lexus vehicles for various projects like mapping that may or may not be
part of Project Titan.

Sports cars and the like have never been on Apple's radar, patent wise.
Apple's van now in the works would suggest that Apple is looking to
corporate vehicles and/or Airport rentals.

Today Apple's latest Project Titan invention relates to a new Converter
Architecture that will ensure that customer's creature comforts like air
conditioning, GPS and infotainment system keep on humming with enough power.

According to Apple, vehicles, including electric or hybrid vehicles and
other devices are generally powered by a high voltage battery or other high
energy store. However, such vehicles and devices typically include
components or subsystems, such as battery controllers, motor controllers,
air conditioning systems, and the like, operating at a relatively lower
voltage.

Conventionally, a converter down converts the high voltage powering the
vehicle or device to the lower voltage at which these components and
subsystems operate.

Such conventional converters are often inefficient and suffer from load
transients that are absorbed by and may cause damage to a low voltage
battery.

Apple's invention introduces a solution to this problem.

Apple Patent: Converter Architecture

Apple's invention involves systems and methods for supplying voltage to a
load. In one aspect, a converter, such as a direct current-to-direct current
("DC-to-DC") converter, converts a relatively higher direct current voltage
of a high energy store to a relatively lower direct current voltage utilized
by lower voltage loads. For instance, a vehicle or other device typically
includes a high energy store, such as a high voltage battery, providing
motive current to one or more electric drive motors. The vehicle or device
may also include lower voltage components, including, but not limited to,
electric power steering systems, navigation systems, dashboard systems,
and/or the like, that operate at a lower voltage than the drive motor(s).

The lower voltage components are coupled to a low voltage bus that is
powered with the high energy store by way of an unregulated DC-to-DC
converter. Additionally, the output of the unregulated DC-to-DC converter
provides power to a regulated DC-to-DC converter for charging a low voltage
battery, which may nominally operate at the same voltage as the low voltage
bus. The regulated converter provides a regulated voltage to a load/source
even as load conditions change on the low voltage battery (or more generally
the low voltage bus) and/or input voltages change due to varying inputs at
the unregulated converter. The low voltage battery may also power the low
voltage components, such as through switchably connecting the low voltage
battery to the low voltage bus, if a failure is experienced at the
unregulated DC-to-DC converter, or if the low voltage bus is otherwise not
powered by the unregulated DC-to-DC converter.

Apple notes at one point in their patent filing that "In one implementation,
the system is configured for the recovery operational mode wherein a charge
state of the LV (Low Voltage) battery is depleted or otherwise below a
nominal level. For example, the system includes one or more loads, such as
an air conditioning system, entertainment system, navigation system, and/or
other vehicle subsystems or components. If the loads operate for any
extended time while only drawing power from the LV battery, the LV battery
may become depleted. In the recovery operational mode the system recharges
the LV battery until the charge state reaches the nominal level.

Apple's patent FIG. 4 illustrated below is a flowchart of example operations
for providing a load voltage supply using a combination of an unregulated
DC-to-DC converter for powering a bus and a regulated converter for charging
or sourcing current from a low voltage battery system.

Apple's patent application 20180301986 was filed back in Q2 2018. The
original work on this invention began in 2015. Considering that this is a
patent application, the timing of such a product to market is unknown at
this time. Below you'll find a Sc

[EVDL] EVLN: Normal (man) size guy test-drives 2019 Bolt (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://insideevs.com/big-guy-tests-2019-chevy-bolt/
Tall, Large Guy Tests Small 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
OCT 13 2018  STEVEN LOVEDAY

[video
https://youtu.be/Mjz0qUvThyQ
2019 Chevy Bolt EV. Will you fit? Small Electric Car Review


images  
https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-Chevrolet-BoltEV-080-750x500.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-Chevrolet-BoltEV-079.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Chevy-Bolt-Autocross-23.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/2017-Chevrolet-BoltEV-081.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/2017-Chevrolet-BoltEV-086.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Chevy-Bolt-Autocross-7.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Bolt-EV-2.jpeg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/chevrolet-bolt-interior-dash-seating.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/chevrolet-bolt-EV-interior.jpg

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Chevy-Bolt-Autocross-18.jpg
]

How does this big guy fit in the 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV?

This larger, taller man is at an auto show checking out the new, 2019
Chevrolet Bolt EV. He says he’s 6’4? inches tall and a touch over 250
pounds. After doing a brief walkaround and providing some basic information,
he wonders if he’ll be able to get into the small electric car. While the
Bolt EV is a compact car, it has a unique design that makes it much more
representative of a crossover than many other compact cars ...

The good news is that he has no trouble getting into the Bolt EV’s driver’s
seat. He actually goes so far as to say that he’s comfortable, has lots of
head room, and an extra six inches or so in front of his knees. He’s also
happy with the outward and dash visibility, as well as the adjustability of
the driver’s seat. Once he’s inside he provides a brief tour of the
vehicle’s cabin.

The true test comes, however, when this big guy decides to check out the
rear seats. He doesn’t expect there to be much leg room, and he’s right.
While he does fit back there and would be fine for short trips, his head is
just barely touching the headliner and his knees are hitting the back of the
front seat. He says that there’s still a surprising amount of room and that
a 6’3? person may actually be ok back there ...

If a tall fat guy fits into the Chevy Bolt, then you can too. It’s the
2019 Chevrolet Bolt, and yes it is a compact electric car, but it’s roomier
on the interior than you might otherwise think.
[© insideevs.com]


+
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/c4/104925/citroen-c4-to-return-with-electric-power
Citroen C4 to return with electric power
13 Oct, 2018  Citroen's new C4 electric car is set to rival VW's new I.D but
petrol and diesel ... for buyers' needs at the price the company intends to
charge for the C4 EV.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/104922/citroen-c4-to-return-with-electric-power-pictures




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
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[EVDL] EVLN: Adult built& drove Infento EV kit> Super-Duper cool (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2018/10/15/video-i-commuted-on-a-diy-electric-kids-vehicle-and-survived/
Video: I commuted on a DIY electric kid’s vehicle – and survived
October 15, 2018  Callum Booth

[video  flash


images  
https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/10/P1033814-796x448.jpg
This is the kit

https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/10/P1033887-796x448.jpg
Smell the jubilence

https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/10/c1-796x448.jpg
A selection of sick wheels

https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/10/c2-796x448.jpg
]

As you would’ve gathered from the video, Infento creates a kit that lets
children build fully-functional vehicles. In other words, it’s like a
souped-up version of LEGO or Meccano.

Being the mature, respectable, and well-adjusted adult you see before you, I
had to give it a go.

This meant not only building a vehicle, but also driving around in one.
Sometimes, life is hard.

Firstly, Infento?

The company is the brainchild of two Dutch designers, Spencer Rotting and
Sander Letema. The company‘s first product, an educational kit for schools,
was released back in 2012.

It proved so popular among parents and students that Rotting and Letema
decided to expand. So, they turned to crowdfunding. After some successful
campaigns and a fair amount of fanfare, they got the investment they needed
and now Infento ships to 45 countries.

How does it work?

Simply put, the company sells a range of kits that let you build different
vehicles. Each has a suggested age-range (up to 14 years old), which informs
the type of ride you can construct.

For example, the Big Snow Kit lets you build rides that, surprisingly, work
on snow. While the Junior Kit is aimed at… well, you get the picture.

On top of the standard kits, Infento also offers a range of add-ons and
upgrades. The former are additions to vehicles, such as LED strips. The
latter are a selection of parts that lets owners transition between kits.

This means that as a child grows, you can buy extra parts to upgrade to a
bigger kit, instead of buying an entirely new one.

What’s it like building one?

Honestly, a mixture of fun and irritating.

The kit was well-organized and included clearly-labeled parts. Each vehicle
requires slightly different tools, but all I needed were some allen keys
(which were included) and a tape measure (which wasn’t).

One annoying part of the process was the instructions, as the kit didn’t
come with a hard copy. It sounds minor, but looking at a phone screen during
construction was so frustrating I had to go and print them out myself. And
that was without an energetic child around.

The shortest build-time for an Infento vehicle is 60 minutes, which was
obviously the one I chose to make. Some of the other vehicles took
substantially longer.

While the instructions were clear, there was a lot fiddly work. Now, this
isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Just be aware you’ll have to be around during
construction, as many children won’t be able to build this themselves.

What are the vehicles like?

Super, duper cool.

I tried a range of Infento vehicles and had a blast on all of them. Each
seemed solid, safe, and sturdy, even when someone twice the size of an
average 14-year-old was using them.

Still, I feel I need to drop an obvious disclaimer: combining kids and
vehicles can be dangerous. Yes, this is the ultimate in common sense, but it
needs to be said.

And could an adult commute on it?

You tell me:

How much does it cost?

The Infento range is great, but it doesn’t come cheap. The least expensive
kit is around $150, but they go up to almost $700.

Still, when it comes to vehicles that your kids ride around in, you probably
want them to be high quality. Right? I mean, unless you hate your kids.

Who are the Infento kits for?

Aside from adults looking to get to work?
Yes

Anyone who wants a fun project with their kids. And, you know, has some
spare cash.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time building and riding around in the vehicles. I
only have two questions about Infento [
https://www.infentorides.com/
]:

Why didn’t I have this as a kid?
Where’s the adult-specific version?
[© thenextweb.com]
...
https://www.infentorides.com/product/master-creator-kit/
Master Creator Kit  Ages 1-13
Master Creator is our flagship Kit. With this Kit you will be able to build
16 rides! You and your child will have their whole childhood fun building
and riding. From 0 to 13 years. From toddler to teenager. And this with just
one kit. The Master Creator Kit introduces you to three truly unique new
rides: the Arrow, Bulldog and Swing!


https://www.infentorides.com/blog/power-up-your-ride-with-e-drive/
Power up your ride with E-drive!
2015-09-18
...
[dated]
https://www.facebook.com/infento/videos/vb.167062606647765/984698358217515/?type=2&theater
Infento - World's first real constructible rides
September 16, 2015  
[video
https://www.facebook.com/infento/vid

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20181020

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Normal-man-size-guy-test-drives-2019-Bolt-v-tp4691559.html
EVLN: Normal (man) size guy test-drives 2019 Bolt (v)
Tall, Large Guy Tests Small 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
OCT 13 2018  After doing a brief walkaround and providing some basic
information, he wonders if he'll be able to get into the small electric car
... If a tall fat guy fits into the Chevy Bolt, then you can too ...
https://youtu.be/Mjz0qUvThyQ


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Adult-built-drove-Infento-EV-kit-Super-Duper-cool-v-tp4691560.html
EVLN: Adult built& drove Infento EV kit> Super-Duper cool (v)
Video: I commuted on a DIY electric kid’s vehicle – and survived
As you would’ve gathered from the video, Infento creates a kit that builds
fully-functional vehicles ...
https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/10/c2-796x448.jpg


+
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/c4/104925/citroen-c4-to-return-with-electric-power
Citroen C4 to return with electric power
13 Oct, 2018  Citroen's new C4 electric car is set to rival VW's new I.D but
petrol and diesel ... for buyers' needs at the price the company intends to
charge for the C4 EV.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/104922/citroen-c4-to-return-with-electric-power-pictures


https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/lifestyle/motoring/news-motoring/742130/ford-teases-electric-car-inspired-by-mustang/
Ford teases electric car inspired by Mustang
20181012  Ford has released a teaser image of an all-electric crossover
inspired by the firm's most iconic car. The SUV, of which very little
information has been released, ...


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Sen-Barrasso-Zaps-WY-EVcredit-via-a-fee-tp4691514.html
Sen. Barrasso Zaps WY EVcredit via a fee
Congressman Tries to Zap Electric Car Credits
That’s the sound of the majority of taxpayers being shocked at the tax
credits that electric car buyers continue to receive — ...
https://39uhx2trii4zt1im-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Elon_Musk_Tesla_Factory_Fremont_CA_USA_8765031426_2.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] Apple Converter ensures EV comforts don't suffer load-transients

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

Sounds like prior art to me.  What am I missing?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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