[EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in
https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-the-electric-car-charging-startups/ Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car charging startups February 5, 2019 Michael J. Coren For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric cars. Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the driver’s seat of the “new fuels” industry. It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350 new electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the conditions for mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is set to peak around 2021 thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel efficiency gains. The energy research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie predicts charging infrastructure investment in the US will exceed $18 billion annually by 2030 for equipment, installation, operations, and services. China is expected to have three times more energy demand from EVs by then. Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or outright acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the millions of electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years. Although just 2.2% of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2 million or so EVs were sold last year amid exponential growth. While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its annual capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334 billion was invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF (pdf) Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and each region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging infrastructure is operated by utilities and oil companies. In the US, 62% of the market is managed by pure-play EV operators. In China, equipment manufacturers control the majority. So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent move was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup offering software and services for EV charging networks. The British-Dutch oil giant says it will use Greenlot’s technology, which combines software to optimize battery charging and grid balancing services in one charging platform, to build the “foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is pouring about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF, including the acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe, as well as a $31 million investment into EV charging startup Ample in 2018. Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers EV charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct Energie, making it a major electricity retailer in France as well. Ultimately, Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon energy assets” from 5% of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of Europe’s biggest oil firms now have a hand in renewable energy, power trading, energy storage, retail electricity sales, grid management, or EV charging. “In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is getting a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit in San Francisco on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe see where this stuff is going and want to ensure they are not missing out on it. … It’s not just a downside hedge.” The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are just starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory. Last year, Chevron participated in a $240 million round for ChargePoint, a network of independently owned charging spots, valued at $1.5 billion, according to Pitchbook. The utility American Electric Power and German automaker Daimler invested alongside the oil giant. Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with carmakers to offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and other brands. California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison, the southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost every state are lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific Gas and Electric is busy investing in thousands of fast-charging stations around the state. [© qz.com] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-121427788.html Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies February 15, 2019 Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion, electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively. Sonnen also says that it has developed its own technology for electric-car charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing portfolio in this area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries, which are known to be cheaper and longer lasting than the nickel-cobalt-manganese b... ... https://www.renewableenergywo
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
Mitsubishi says to submerge the battery in salt water. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 16, 2019, at 12:33 PM, Willie via EV wrote: > > > >> On 2/16/19 12:14 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote: >> Would it expedite the cooling if fire departments had sacks of crushed ice >> they could throw on the battery as the flames die, to prevent flaring up? > > A seemingly good idea. Perhaps worthy of study by fire fighting people. Two > likely problems I see: > 1) The logistics difficulty of having ice on hand especially considering the > rare need for it. > 2) Ice COULD be counter productive by blocking water from where it is needed. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
On 2/16/19 12:37 PM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote: On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 1:15 PM Gail Lucas via EV wrote: Would it expedite the cooling if fire departments had sacks of crushed ice they could throw on the battery as the flames die, to prevent flaring up? Probably not. If you assume they can maintain typical freezer temperature of -10 °F, that's still only ~80 °F away from ambient temperature. Not that it is significant, but you have ignored the "heat of fusion". Ice soaks up much more heat in that last thawing degree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_fusion ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 1:15 PM Gail Lucas via EV wrote: > Would it expedite the cooling if fire departments had sacks of crushed > ice they could throw on the battery as the flames die, to prevent > flaring up? > Probably not. If you assume they can maintain typical freezer temperature of -10 °F, that's still only ~80 °F away from ambient temperature. That's not much of a help when you're trying to cool things heated by flames in the 1000s of degrees. Furthermore, if you dumped enough crushed ice so it wouldn't immediately flash into steam, it would restrict the flow of water. The main benefit of using a fire hose is that there's a constant flow of water to carry the heat away. (Assuming you can get water to the heat source.) You just need to do it long enough to cool everything to below ignition temp. That might mean until there is not enough capacity left in the battery to heat up from a short circuit caused by munched and/or torn metal Chris <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190216/ce9cdc1e/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
On 2/16/19 12:14 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote: Would it expedite the cooling if fire departments had sacks of crushed ice they could throw on the battery as the flames die, to prevent flaring up? A seemingly good idea. Perhaps worthy of study by fire fighting people. Two likely problems I see: 1) The logistics difficulty of having ice on hand especially considering the rare need for it. 2) Ice COULD be counter productive by blocking water from where it is needed. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
Would it expedite the cooling if fire departments had sacks of crushed ice they could throw on the battery as the flames die, to prevent flaring up? On 2/16/2019 4:15 AM, paul dove wrote: The main point is that a lithium battery fire is a chemical fire supplying its own oxygen so it can’t be smothered. One must remove the heat and bring the temperature of the the battery below the thermal run away point. I watched videos of firemen trying to douse a lithium battery fire and it keeps flaring up because the turn off the hose when the fire goes out before they have sufficiently cooled the battery Sent from my iPhone On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:46 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote: I thought of this too when Ron, a volunteer firefighter on our list, found the information could be useful to him in his work. Also, it would be good for anyone driving vehicles with lithium batteries to know to look for a hose instead of grabbing their fire extinguisher. Gail ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
paul dove via EV wrote: The main point is that a lithium battery fire is a chemical fire supplying its own oxygen so it can’t be smothered. One must remove the heat and bring the temperature of the the battery below the thermal run away point. I watched videos of firemen trying to douse a lithium battery fire and it keeps flaring up because the turn off the hose when the fire goes out before they have sufficiently cooled the battery Not only that, but a battery can provide its own source of ignition. Even after being extinguished and totally cooled off, there can still be enough voltage and current so a short somewhere can produce enough heat to re-ignite it. -- The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. (Max Born) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (more): EVfire: 2wheel EV.cn Suddenly Bursts Into Flames (v)
The main point is that a lithium battery fire is a chemical fire supplying its own oxygen so it can’t be smothered. One must remove the heat and bring the temperature of the the battery below the thermal run away point. I watched videos of firemen trying to douse a lithium battery fire and it keeps flaring up because the turn off the hose when the fire goes out before they have sufficiently cooled the battery Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:46 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote: > > I thought of this too when Ron, a volunteer firefighter on our list, found > the information could be useful to him in his work. > > Also, it would be good for anyone driving vehicles with lithium batteries to > know to look for a hose instead of grabbing their fire extinguisher. > > Gail > >> On 2/15/2019 5:40 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: >> Besides useful to EVangels, my EVfire & li-ion fire posts might be useful to >> firefighters & 1st responders. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
