[EVDL] auto exec thinks Tesla can last
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Does-anyone-really-think-Tesla-can-last-tp4693631.html
]
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-wont-go-out-of-business-says-one-veteran-auto-exec-162939438.html
Tesla won't go out of business, says one veteran auto exec
May 29, 2019 ... Don’t be so quick to think that Tesla won’t emerge from its
latest crisis of confidence, says one veteran auto industry executive. And
if it does, it will likely be because of its talented employees ...
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Re: [EVDL] Formally complain to Nissan If you want an e-NV200 in North America.
Well, I tried contacting Nissan. Their general feedback form wouldn't work because it required selecting a dealer, but there aren't any dealers in Seattle - it wouldn't let me select a dealer from an adjacent area. That's pretty stupid software ! So, I found another form where you can inquire directly to a dealer. I chose one and asked about the e-nv200. No response from the dealer. But I got a response from HQ. Hope flared !!! I replied to him asking when the e-nv200 would be available explaining that it would be the perfect vehicle for my needs. No response. I send a 2nd email. No response. I guess NISSAN DOESN'T REALLY CARE about customers unless one is in the process of buying something now. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lee Hart via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Lee Hart" Sent: 18-May-19 11:59:14 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Formally complain to Nissan If you want an e-NV200 in North America. Willie via EV wrote: On 5/18/19 12:38 PM, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: drag and increased energy consumption (and reduced range). Simply raising a vehicle increases frontal area by virtue of the tires being more exposed. I believe the under car air speed is also increased. Or, maybe increased turbulence. Anyway, I think it is worse than just exposing more tire. I think that is true. Keeping the car low is a way to reduce the amount of air and turbulence underneath. Of course, a smooth bottom would help; but that costs too much. Big fat tires with lots of tread have lots of wind resistance. And, the tops of the tires are moving forward at *double* the speed of the car! Paul MacReady (of Aerovironment) talked a lot about auto aerodynamics when he was designing the Impact (aka GM EV1). Things I recall: - Aero testing is in wind tunnels, with car and tires not moving. - The roughness of the bottom of the car is usually ignored. - Spinning tires have much more drag than stationary ones. - Most cars are more aerodynamic in reverse. So, he designed the EV1 with a smooth bottom, with wheel wells optimized as "ducts" to minimize turbulence, and a shape that actually *was* aerodynamic (instead of what some stylist thinks will "look" aerodynamic). If you need more ground clearance sometimes, maybe adjustable air bags are an answer? -- Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. The wise avoid it. Geniuses remove it. -- Alan Perlis, "Epigrams on Programming" -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] iNEXT EVs are certainly not “blowing Tesla out of the water”
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/bmw-tesla-worry-shareholders/
BMW shareholders worry about Tesla’s competitive advantage
May. 24th 2019 Fred Lambert
[image
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/09/BMW-inext-gold-woods-e1537031265890.jpg
iNEXT
]
Tesla’s electric vehicle lead is worrisome to some competitors and laughable
to others, but BMW shareholders are now putting some pressure on the
automaker.
German shareholder association Vice President Daniela Bergdolt said in a
speech at BMW’s recent annual shareholder’s meeting (via Auto News Europe):
“Where is this model offensive? Sure, you’ve got the iNEXT, but I was
expecting something that blows Tesla out of the water.”
The comment was reportedly received by loud applause from BMW shareholders.
On top of it, BMW’s board is reportedly considering replacing CEO Harald
Krüger due to his role in the company’s slow rollout of more electric
vehicle options.
At the company’s Annual General Meeting in Munich earlier this month, Krüger
reiterated the automaker’s commitment to e-mobility, but he still focuses on
plug-in hybrids.
BMW hasn’t released a new all-electric car since the BMW i3 in 2013, but the
German automaker now says that it’s finally launching new fully-electric
models.
They have the BMW iX3, an all-electric SUV, which is due to go on sale next
year and the BMW i4, an all-electric sedan, and the BMW iNEXT, an
all-electric crossover, are being brought to market in 2021.
The automaker previously presented the iNEXT as their answer to the Tesla
Model 3, which is what the leader of the shareholder association was
referencing
Earlier this year, BMW revealed the latest iX3, i4, and iNext electric
vehicle prototypes during winter testing.
Electrek’s Take
I have to agree that the iNEXT is certainly not “blowing Tesla out of the
water.”
BMW has been claiming an insane 435-mile range, which would beat Model 3 by
a wide margin, but it’s unclear if it’s based on a realistic driving cycle.
Either way, it’s coming in another 2 years and we expect Model 3 to improve
during that time too.
Any way you look at it, BMW is falling behind in my opinion. 7 years between
launching new all-electric models is not acceptable.
To be fair, they are not alone in that boat. Other legacy automakers with
significant early leads in all-electric vehicles, like Nissan, are also slow
to launch new models.
I like to see shareholders now putting pressure on them as Tesla is building
on its lead.
[© electrek.co]
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http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Does-anyone-really-think-Tesla-can-last-tp4693631.html
]
+ (v)
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-owners-group-summon-video/
Tesla owners Summon a flash mob in parking lot antics
May 25, 2019 - In a recently published video, the Northern Virginia Tesla
Owners Society showed off a “group summon” event their members organized for
a ...
https://youtu.be/OrI7pNoGh4U
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[EVDL] GM's OnStar Data to be used for planning future EVSE installations
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lianeyvkoff/2019/05/29/gm-will-use-onstar-data-to-plan-its-future-ev-charging-network/#3abe3d915741
GM Will Use OnStar Data To Plan Its Future EV Charging Network
May 29, 2019 Liane Yvkoff
[image
https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fdam%2Fimageserve%2F42507408%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale
A General Motors Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicle charges outside of the
company's Renaissance Center world headquarters complex in Detroit. Jeff
Kowalsky/Bloomberg
]
General Motors has teamed up with Bechtel Enterprises to build a network of
electric vehicle charging stations, according to an article on CNN.
The companies have signed a memorandum of agreement to form a new corporate
entity that will manage this new business. GM will be responsible for
providing data and logistics support to determine where chargers should be
placed, and Bechtel will manage the engineering, building and permitting of
the stations. Neither GM nor Bechtel plans to contribute money to this new
venture, rather they are seeking outside investment. Executives could not
name the companies invited to participate.
Automotive manufacturers have been taking the lead in rolling out electric
vehicle charging infrastructure. Tesla's Supercharger network is considered
the most robust, providing fast charging stations around the world that can
deliver 75 miles of range in five minutes. Electrify America, which is
funded by a Volkswagen as part of its emissions lawsuit settlement, is in
the second phase of its roll-out, and Porsche recently announced plans to
build a fast charging network of 500 stations in the U.S. and Canada.
But rather than adding to the electric highway, GM may be targeting cities
and other densely populated areas that don't offer electric vehicle owners a
place to recharge. Many customers live in high-rises and sprawling apartment
complexes that don't always offer a place to recharge, and buyers may not
always have the option of installing one themselves in their garage, which
has been the strategy of most EV owners to date. But GM will have an edge on
the planning phase of this operation in the form of anonymized data gathered
from OnStar customers that have opted into the subsidiary's data sharing
program.
All new GM vehicles are standard equipped with OnStar hardware that can
track the vehicle's locations, and some owners subscribe to the telematics
service for emergency response support and navigation. This deep well of
information will help the manufacturer understand the travel habits and
patterns of its customer base to figure out where it would make the most
sense to build its charging stations.
[© forbes.com]
+
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/utility-chargepoint-evgo-and-tesla-duke-it-out/
Mexican Standoff in DC: Utility, Chargepoint & EVgo, and Tesla duke it out
May 24, 2019 This would mean Tesla Superchargers would be ineligible for
the wholesale electric rate that would be available to other private
operators like Chargepoint ...
https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/04/orkneyevscharging.jpg
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[EVDL] L1&2: Dual voltage EVSE
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Dual-voltage-EVSE-tp4693724.html
https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B07BM1XT4Q
]
I'll assume you like this EVSE because it is dual voltage, thus dual level
(1&2), and it comes with a molded 120VAC adapter cable included.
Level 1 only draws 12A off a 120VAC source. When in level2 mode, the EVSE
can draw more AC current depending on the EVSE design.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EV-Charger-Level-2-EVSE-PHEV-100-240V-13A-25ft-J1772-A-With-5-15P-6-20R-Adapter/152662826506
$170 EV Charger Level 2 EVSE PHEV 100-240V 13A 25ft J1772 A With 5-15P/6-20R
Adapter
sez it only draws 13A.
This is not typical of dual EVSE. Typically they draw 12A in 120VAC level 1
mode (plugged into a 5-15 or higher current outlet), and draw 16A when in
240-208VAC level 2 mode (plugged into a 6-20 or higher current outlet).
Level 1 drawing 12A off 120VAC 1.4kW, and level2 draws 16A off 240-208VAC
3.7-3.3kW.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Car-Charger-evse-Level-2-110-220-NEMA-6-20-plug-factory-offer/123728728368
Shows a dual level EVSE but does not come with a 120VAC adapter cable. The
adapter cable is easy to make or you can buy one
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=5-15+to+6-20+cable&_sop=15
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Re: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?
120v 15a outlets have two vertical flat blades. In contrast, 120v 20a outlets turn one of those blades horizontal. You can see this in the 120v 20a outlets as they usually are built to accept both 15a and 20a plugs. A device that has a 15a type plug (NEMA 5-15) should only draw 12a on a continuous basis (per 80% rule for continuous loads). This EVSE comes with a built-in 240v 20 amp plug (NEMA 6-20) that is designed for a continuous 16 amps on 240v circuit. This might be able to pass UL. They also include an adapter to convert the 6-20 plug to a 5-15 plug. I doubt this adapter would pass UL, as it could allow generic 240v equipment to be plugged into 120v sources. Also it doesn't appear to have a way to tell the EVSE to reduce the max current signal value to 12. However...it is possible the EVSE is programmed to always signal 12a whenever it sees 120v. IIRC the dual voltage capable (after mods) OEM EVSE that came with the earlier Nissan Leaf years had this behavior (12a on 120v, 16a on 240v). In contrast, Tesla's portable EVSEs handle the dual voltage and different outlet amperage ratings cases by using proprietary adapters. These tell the EVSE what kind of outlet it is being used with. On Wed, May 29, 2019, 18:03 Alan Brinkman via EV wrote: > Bob, > > The EVSE you are looking at lists: Rated current & voltage: 120v-220v / > 16A. I would assume that it will signal the electric vehicle it plugs into > that it can supply a maximum of 16 Amps at 120v when plugged into 120v and > 240v when plugged into 240v. > > However, a simple description of an EVSE says: Using two-way communication > between the charger and car, the correct charging current is set based on > the maximum current the charger can provide as well as the maximum current > the car can receive. > > Maybe it is just the current that is communicated, and the car's charger > accepts 120 to 220 volts, and keeps the current used at 16 Amps or below, > assuming the vehicle being charged can accept 16 Amps. > > Someone more knowledgeable please chime in now... > > I bought a used EVSE to handle 30 Amps at 220v, but it is a large, heavy > cabinet, and I am second guessing the purchase. It is still sitting, > waiting for me to attach it to a pole. I have most of the wiring ready. My > 120v 16A charger is working fine for a daily use of 15 to 30 miles. 220v at > 16A would be a better next step for me. > > Alan > > -Original Message- > ^From: EV On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV > ^Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 1:40 PM > ^To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > ^Cc: Robert Bruninga ; ev...@yahoogroups.com > ^Subject: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?^ > > ^Amazon has this dual voltage EVSE ($189) that includes the adapter to 240 > V 20 amp plug. > > > https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B07BM1XT4Q/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=dual+voltage+evse=1559162151=gateway=8-1 > > > > ^Does anyone know if these things signal 12 amps at both voltages (it > doesn't know what it is plugged into, though it could easily sense the > voltage and switch). > > ^Or does it do 16 amps at either voltage. This would not be good for > 15amp general purpose use. > > ^Inquiring minds... etc > > ^Bob, Wb4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190529/b6b29458/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
> It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound one degree. The engineer in me won't allow this to pass unchallenged, although in the context of this discussion, it probably doesn't matter. It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound OF WATER one degree. You have to consider the latent heat of whatever the object you are heating or cooling and it's material to come to an accurate value of the energy needed vs. temperature change. The designers of my SCT Rabbit were ahead of the curve on passenger comfort in winter. The car had installed at the time of conversion, an Espar gasoline heater, basically a miniature furnace the size of a loaf of bread. The previous owner was running it on white gas (naptha), which made it a little less obnoxiously smelly, but much more expensive to operate. I converted it to run on LPG, which it does very well. Never saw any reason to mess around with ceramic heaters, 12 volt hair dryers, etc. Go with what works. There's no reason that that transit buses couldn't use liquid fuel furnaces for cabin heat. It they chose diesel (fuel oil) furnaces, the bus terminal would already have the fueling facilities in place. A coolant loop into the battery compartment would be a simple extension from there. I think that the APU's that long-haul truckers use to provide electricity and heat overnight also have this as standard equipment for keeping the engine on the rig warm while it's stopped. What? You believe it's sacrilege to use petroleum fuel in an EV? Get over it, without petroleum, EV's wouldn't exist. They depend on resource extraction, manufacturing, lubricants, hydraulic fluids and tires (mostly oil). Even a bicycle, or the shoes you are wearing needed fossil fuels at some point. Kick the idea up a notch and use biodiesel or (gasp) hydrogen, lower fossil fuel footprint, but bigger outlay for the fueling infrastructure at the bus terminal. 1 Cup (Before Bed) Burns Belly Fat Like Crazy! worldhealthlabs.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5cef0b874f0eab7f0d7cst04vuc ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
Robert, the energy needed long term would be determined by the heat loss, not the mass being heated. Thus, if perfectly insulated there would be no heat loss and thus no energy needed to keep the battery warm. So, my question persists. Why didn't BYD put thermal management into their battery? Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lee Hart via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Lee Hart" Sent: 29-May-19 2:43:40 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters? Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and provide a small electrical heat source. 100W or so? Lets say a 1000 lB battery. It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound one degree. To raise 1000 lbs say 40 degrees from 0F to 40F would take 40,000 BTU or about 11 kWh. Or about 33 miles of range given up to heat the battery. True enough if you're warming up a cold battery. But it would be foolish to heat the battery with its own charge. Instead, you would use AC mains power to heat it. In that case, you'd be charging the pack at the same time. So heating the battery from a cold start just adds to the charging time. When the charge cycle finishes, you have a fully-charged, fully warmed up battery; so no loss of range. The battery pack has so much thermal mass that if it is well insulated, it will stay warm all day, without any supplemental heating. Wait until the next time it's plugged in to warm it back up. -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?
Bob, This EVSE seems to be sold under several brand names and I couldn't find a manual for any of them. I'll bet that you looked as well. These manufacturers sell a variable current EVSE as well, so I guess that the model you referenced sends a fixed 16 amp signal to the on board charger Regardless of voltage, it is the on board charger that chooses the current to charge at. If the EVSE says 16 amps is available, then the on board charger is free to draw any current up to 16 amps. If you have the charger specifications on your car, you may check what the maximum current it will attempt to draw at 115 volts. Without the EVSE specifications or the on board charger specifications, the safe assumption is up to 16 amps for both 115 and 230 volts. By the way, portable EVSE's which allow current setting often make the setting somewhat difficult, and perhaps even temporary. Mike wa7zpu Original Message Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 16:40:03 -0400 From: Robert Bruninga via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Robert Bruninga , ev...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE? Amazon has this dual voltage EVSE ($189) that includes the adapter to 240 V 20 amp plug. https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B0 7BM1XT4Q/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=dual+voltage +evse=1559162151=gateway =8-1 Does anyone know if these things signal 12 amps at both voltages (it doesn't know what it is plugged into, though it could easily sense the voltage and switch). Or does it do 16 amps at either voltage. This would not be good for 15amp general purpose use. Inquiring minds... etc Bob, Wb4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Charegers
Will the 220 charger I used for my 48 calb's work on my 5 Tesla S cells? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190529/5b059111/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?
Bob, The EVSE you are looking at lists: Rated current & voltage: 120v-220v / 16A. I would assume that it will signal the electric vehicle it plugs into that it can supply a maximum of 16 Amps at 120v when plugged into 120v and 240v when plugged into 240v. However, a simple description of an EVSE says: Using two-way communication between the charger and car, the correct charging current is set based on the maximum current the charger can provide as well as the maximum current the car can receive. Maybe it is just the current that is communicated, and the car's charger accepts 120 to 220 volts, and keeps the current used at 16 Amps or below, assuming the vehicle being charged can accept 16 Amps. Someone more knowledgeable please chime in now... I bought a used EVSE to handle 30 Amps at 220v, but it is a large, heavy cabinet, and I am second guessing the purchase. It is still sitting, waiting for me to attach it to a pole. I have most of the wiring ready. My 120v 16A charger is working fine for a daily use of 15 to 30 miles. 220v at 16A would be a better next step for me. Alan -Original Message- ^From: EV On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV ^Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 1:40 PM ^To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ^Cc: Robert Bruninga ; ev...@yahoogroups.com ^Subject: [EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?^ ^Amazon has this dual voltage EVSE ($189) that includes the adapter to 240 V 20 amp plug. https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B07BM1XT4Q/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=dual+voltage+evse=1559162151=gateway=8-1 ^Does anyone know if these things signal 12 amps at both voltages (it doesn't know what it is plugged into, though it could easily sense the voltage and switch). ^Or does it do 16 amps at either voltage. This would not be good for 15amp general purpose use. ^Inquiring minds... etc ^Bob, Wb4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and provide a small electrical heat source. 100W or so? Lets say a 1000 lB battery. It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound one degree. To raise 1000 lbs say 40 degrees from 0F to 40F would take 40,000 BTU or about 11 kWh. Or about 33 miles of range given up to heat the battery. True enough if you're warming up a cold battery. But it would be foolish to heat the battery with its own charge. Instead, you would use AC mains power to heat it. In that case, you'd be charging the pack at the same time. So heating the battery from a cold start just adds to the charging time. When the charge cycle finishes, you have a fully-charged, fully warmed up battery; so no loss of range. The battery pack has so much thermal mass that if it is well insulated, it will stay warm all day, without any supplemental heating. Wait until the next time it's plugged in to warm it back up. -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Dual voltage EVSE?
Amazon has this dual voltage EVSE ($189) that includes the adapter to 240 V 20 amp plug. https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B0 7BM1XT4Q/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=dual+voltage+evse=1559162151=gateway =8-1 Does anyone know if these things signal 12 amps at both voltages (it doesn't know what it is plugged into, though it could easily sense the voltage and switch). Or does it do 16 amps at either voltage. This would not be good for 15amp general purpose use. Inquiring minds... etc Bob, Wb4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
Peri Hartman via EV wrote: If you're building from scratch, wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and provide a small electrical heat source? If well insulated, how much power would it take? 100W or so, or am I completely off. It would of course depend on the physical size of the pack is, and how well insulated it is. But in general, the batteries already generated waste heat from charging and driving. If the bus is used every day, that may be enough all by itself. An inch of styrafoam insulation on all sides of my battery box was all it took to keep the lead-acid golf cart batteries in my ComutaVan warm in Minnesota winters, just from the waste heat. Lithiums are more efficient; but most BMS for them dump lots of waste heat from balancing. So it may work for them as well. I think the fundamental problem is that big companies simply don't know that battery temperature management is a problem, and they won't listen or learn from the historical experience of others that have tried to do without it -- and failed. -- In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
> wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and > provide a small electrical heat source. 100W or so? Lets say a 1000 lB battery. It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound one degree. To raise 1000 lbs say 40 degrees from 0F to 40F would take 40,000 BTU or about 11 kWh Or about 33 miles of range given up to heat the battery. But one should assume that the 11 kWh is used up from the MAINS while charging (not after unplugging) so the battery is pre-heated. Then the calculation is simply based on how rapidly the battery pack gets cold while driving. Maybe 1 kw could maintain it for a while. But notice, you are giving up 33 miles of range from your Electricity source in either case. SO for a daily 33 mile overnight charge and 33 miles of kWh consumption to warm the battery, you are still only getting 50% the energy equivlanet range. Not a problem when all you need to do is add a few more solar panels and have free energy for life. But is a problem when trying to justify going electric in Minnesotta. Bob, WB4APR \ -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 4:03 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Peri Hartman Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters? If you're building from scratch, wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and provide a small electrical heat source? If well insulated, how much power would it take? 100W or so, or am I completely off. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 29-May-19 8:01:46 AM Subject: RE: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters? >I wouild like to see the cost/carbon/benefit analysis of providing >fossil-fuel catalytic heaters in cold climatges. Yes, there is double >to triple energy savings with heatpumps but they still do not work >effectively at cold climates. > >Me thinks that using a fossil fuel 99.9% efficient heater for people >and battery might be worth studying in cold areas.. And the tradeoff >should be based on total carbon emissionis, not just cost. And, of >course, it will change over time as the grid gets cleaner. > >-Original Message- >From: EV On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:43 AM >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Cc: Peri Hartman >Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in >the arse > >I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at >least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous >difference in this case. > >-- Original Message -- >From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "brucedp5" > >Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM >Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in >the arse > >>It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower >>temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the >>claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the >>commitments they make to customers. >> >>BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this >>kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero >>emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies >>fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. >> >>And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not >>necessarily about BYD). >> >>There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President >>later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. >> >>- Mark >> >>Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> >>> On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV >>> wrote: >>> >>> Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid >>> realize the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to >>> keep it warm and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 >>> Volt on the best days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I >>> like to keep the car warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I >>> commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in at home >>> with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD range was >>> estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing >>> in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting >>> department and upper management looking for higher returns on >>> investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts >>> with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them >>> actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus >>> manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all >>> electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. >>> The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most >>> manufactures are already gearing up for
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
If you're building from scratch, wouldn't it be just as easy to insulate the battery and provide a small electrical heat source? If well insulated, how much power would it take? 100W or so, or am I completely off. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 29-May-19 8:01:46 AM Subject: RE: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters? I wouild like to see the cost/carbon/benefit analysis of providing fossil-fuel catalytic heaters in cold climatges. Yes, there is double to triple energy savings with heatpumps but they still do not work effectively at cold climates. Me thinks that using a fossil fuel 99.9% efficient heater for people and battery might be worth studying in cold areas.. And the tradeoff should be based on total carbon emissionis, not just cost. And, of course, it will change over time as the grid gets cleaner. -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:43 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Peri Hartman Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous difference in this case. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "brucedp5" Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to customers. BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not necessarily about BYD). There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD range was estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and upper management looking for higher returns on investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming soon < 5 years. On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV wrote: https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing range of its electric buses May. 24th 2019 [image https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indy gobydbus.jpg e-bus ] Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing. Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless inductive charging pads along bus routes. During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of capital projects and planning, said: “We anticipated that vehicle range
Re: [EVDL] Solectria E-10 differential
Well, I heard back from the mechanic -- he drained the differential oil to get a look at it and it was "a metal milkshake". So the E-10's differential is basically shot; he thinks that the debris in the lube probably destroyed the bearings as well. So I'm hoping that someone out there can help out... Do you have contact information for anyone who might have worked at Solectria? I'd like to pick their brains and see if I can get information on the E-10's differential, if any of the parts (gears/bearings) are off-the-shelf parts or if they were custom; what the gear ratio is, etc. I'll take whatever information I can get at this point. My main hope is that we can find a differential somewhere that has approximately the same gear ratio and will fit the truck; best thing would be if we could find some off-the-shelf differential gears and bearings that we could use to replace the bad ones in this case. I'm certain that we'll be able to get something together to fix the problem, but if you have any information I can use, I'll gladly take it. We've had this truck since 2001 and just replaced the battery pack with lithium-ion modules so I'm definitely not going to give up on it. Thanks, -Tom On 5/29/2019 10:18 AM, Tom Hudson via EV wrote: Hi All, I have a 1995 Solectria E-10 pickup that has developed some issues in the drive train. The main issue seems to be the custom differential that Solectria put together for it -- I always assumed that the differential in there was a stock Chevy S-10 unit that they flipped around so the drive shaft comes in the back, but realized today that it's actually a custom Solectria unit (it has "SOLECTRIA" on the side of the casting). Just wondering if anyone on the list knows where I could find one of these -- maybe someone up in Massachusetts knows of leftover parts from Solectria? If not that, maybe if I could get information on whether the gears and bearings they used in the differential are stock parts? Also wondering if anyone has ever replaced the differential in one of these trucks with something else... The mechanic is looking at the unit now to see exactly what is wrong with it, but I'd like to be prepared for any eventuality. Any help appreciated. -Tom -- Thomas Hudson http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Solectria E-10 differential
Hi All, I have a 1995 Solectria E-10 pickup that has developed some issues in the drive train. The main issue seems to be the custom differential that Solectria put together for it -- I always assumed that the differential in there was a stock Chevy S-10 unit that they flipped around so the drive shaft comes in the back, but realized today that it's actually a custom Solectria unit (it has "SOLECTRIA" on the side of the casting). Just wondering if anyone on the list knows where I could find one of these -- maybe someone up in Massachusetts knows of leftover parts from Solectria? If not that, maybe if I could get information on whether the gears and bearings they used in the differential are stock parts? Also wondering if anyone has ever replaced the differential in one of these trucks with something else... The mechanic is looking at the unit now to see exactly what is wrong with it, but I'd like to be prepared for any eventuality. Any help appreciated. -Tom -- Thomas Hudson http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings - how about fossil fuel heaters?
I wouild like to see the cost/carbon/benefit analysis of providing fossil-fuel catalytic heaters in cold climatges. Yes, there is double to triple energy savings with heatpumps but they still do not work effectively at cold climates. Me thinks that using a fossil fuel 99.9% efficient heater for people and battery might be worth studying in cold areas.. And the tradeoff should be based on total carbon emissionis, not just cost. And, of course, it will change over time as the grid gets cleaner. -Original Message- From: EV On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:43 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Peri Hartman Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous difference in this case. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "brucedp5" Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse >It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or >what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by >vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to >customers. > >BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind >of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It >hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the >contracted performance specs in their contracts. > >And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not >necessarily about BYD). > >There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later >this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. > >- Mark > >Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: >> >> Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize >> the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm >> and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best >> days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car >> warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug >> in at work and I also plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My >> best guess is this BYD range was estimated by sales and marketing while >> the engineers were cringing in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but >> the accounting department and upper management looking for higher returns >> on investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts >> with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them >> actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus >> manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all >> electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. >> The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures >> are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, >> motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is >> cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not >> happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet >> operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming >> soon < 5 years. >> On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV >> wrote: >> >> >> >> https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ >> BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost >> disappointing range of its electric buses May. 24th 2019 >> >> [image >> >> https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indy >> gobydbus.jpg >> e-bus >> ] >> >> Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless >> charging infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses >> experienced “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during >> testing. >> >> Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it >> reached an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD >> will install wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition >> to three wireless inductive charging pads along bus routes. >> >> During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a >> dramatic dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo >> vice president of capital projects and planning, said: >> >> “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, >> but the contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team >> identified several options to address the issue and worked closely >> with BYD to determine the most feasible resolution. At the same >> time, we made it clear to the company they must be accountable to >> our contract. Numerous test
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous difference in this case. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "brucedp5" Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to customers. BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not necessarily about BYD). There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD range was estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and upper management looking for higher returns on investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming soon < 5 years. On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV wrote: https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing range of its electric buses May. 24th 2019 [image https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg e-bus ] Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing. Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless inductive charging pads along bus routes. During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of capital projects and planning, said: “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275 miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307 miles on a single charge.” Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevron-pr is pro-EV secret con-EV campaign> forked-tongue
I think we'll see more and more EV support by the petrol industry, such as this case. I think they understand that their industry is slowly going to shrivel. Of course, it's hard to know at this point whether Chevron is genuine or just doing a big PR stunt. Seems genuine, though. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "brucedp5 via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "brucedp5" Sent: 28-May-19 10:50:48 PM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevron-pr is pro-EV secret con-EV campaign> forked-tongue https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/chevron-secret-campaign-electric-cars/ Chevron lobbyist pushes secretive campaign against electric cars in Arizona May. 28th 2019 Phil Dzikiy [images https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/evgochevron.jpg share https://twitter.com/Court_Rich/status/1129521190718980096 Court Rich @Court_Rich What leadership looks like: Group rep’ing @Microsoft @Nike @Starbucks @lyft and others urges strong mandatory renewable standards in AZ: https://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/198008.pdf … What corporate rent seeking looks like: @Chevron trying to use AstroTurf to stop AZ EV growth: https://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/E00802.pdf … 5:56 PM - May 17, 2019 ] Oil and gas company Chevron recently announced that it’s bringing electric vehicle chargers to its gas stations — meanwhile, one of its lobbyists is spurring a fight against EV infrastructure in Arizona. A Chevron lobbyist is persuading retirees of the company in Arizona to push back against electric car policies in the state, the Arizona Republic reports. As the article notes, these Chevron retirees are using a form letter designed to urge Arizona Corporation Commissioners “not to require electric companies here to build electric car charging stations.” The Chevron retirees are also not identifying themselves as such, which is what’s causing the controversy. Chevron lobbyist Marian Catedral-King sent the “call to action” form letter to Sel Larsen, president of the Arizona retirees group. But David Newell of Scottsdale alerted the commissioners to the effort with his own email. It seems the letter got into the hands of the wrong person — Newell worked for Unocal on geothermal energy projects, but “because that company was acquired by Chevron, he is considered a Chevron retiree.” As Newell wrote to commissioners about Chevron’s efforts: I emphatically do not share their point of view. Many of the points raised in these attachments are irrelevant, inaccurate or misleading. They are raised in service of preserving the status quo of entrenched interests. These businesses perceive electric vehicles as a serious threat to their business model and are attempting to recruit those who might be seen by you as disinterested parties to promote their interests. You can read both the lobbyist letter and Newell’s full response here. As Newell told the Arizona Republic, “It’s within their rights to make their position known. It’s unfair to enlist people without clearly identifying who they are.” Catedral-King did not respond to questions, but Larsen did speak with the Arizona Republic, saying the retiree group was “not opposed to environmental issues at all if they are fair.” He also said, “If utilities are forced to provide infrastructure, then I pay for their choice of cars. The government already subsidizes that industry.” The article follows that with this fine sentence: “Larsen said he could not comment on whether Chevron’s oil operations receive any government subsidies.” Court Rich, an Arizona attorney who represents renewable energy interests, criticized the effort on Twitter: He also characterized the move as desperate, telling the Republic: “Ironically, I bet this is the same failed tactic that a desperate horse and buggy lobbyist once used to try and scare the public against gas automobiles.” Chevron announced a partnership with EVgo just last week, as the company is bringing EVgo’s chargers to some of its gas stations. More than a dozen EVgo fast chargers are currently operational or under construction at various Chevron stations in California. Electrek’s Take Chevron’s one hand makes a public display of installing EV chargers while the other hand secretively urges a group of former employees to fight back against electric cars in their own state. As we’ve noted, it’s not that these oil companies want to embrace EV adoption. Old habits die hard — if they ever die at all. (Astroturfing is becoming a favored technique in the energy industry.) These retirees really should be doing something — anything — better with their time. Kudos to Newell for being a voice for progress and exposing this campaign. [© electrek.co] ... https://google.com/search?q=speak+with+forked+tongue forked tongue https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2019/05/28/chevron-exec-enlists-arizona-retirees-effort-against-electric-cars/3700955002/ Chevron executive is secretly pushing
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to customers. BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not necessarily about BYD). There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: > > Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the > cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy > on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles > on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. > Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also > plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD > range was estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing > in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and > upper management looking for higher returns on investment realized range > needed to be increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the > higher range, regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is > that the majority of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are > planning for an all electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many > fleet orders. The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most > manufactures are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in > batteries, motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is > cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not > happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet > operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming soon > < 5 years. >On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV > wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ > BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing > range of its electric buses > May. 24th 2019 > > [image > https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg > e-bus > ] > > Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging > infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced > “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing. > > Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached > an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install > wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless > inductive charging pads along bus routes. > > During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic > dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of > capital projects and planning, said: > > “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the > contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several > options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the > most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company > they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring > resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275 > miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307 > miles on a single charge.” > > Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending > somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo > reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevron-pr is pro-EV secret con-EV campaign> forked-tongue
My favorite line: “Ironically, I bet this is the same failed tactic that a desperate horse and buggy lobbyist once used to try and scare the public against gas automobiles.” - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On May 28, 2019, at 10:50 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/chevron-secret-campaign-electric-cars/ > Chevron lobbyist pushes secretive campaign against electric cars in Arizona > May. 28th 2019 Phil Dzikiy > > [images > https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/evgochevron.jpg > > > share > https://twitter.com/Court_Rich/status/1129521190718980096 > Court Rich @Court_Rich > What leadership looks like: Group rep’ing @Microsoft @Nike @Starbucks @lyft > and others urges strong mandatory renewable standards in AZ: > https://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/198008.pdf … > > What corporate rent seeking looks like: @Chevron trying to use AstroTurf to > stop AZ EV growth: https://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/E00802.pdf > … > 5:56 PM - May 17, 2019 > ] > > Oil and gas company Chevron recently announced that it’s bringing electric > vehicle chargers to its gas stations — meanwhile, one of its lobbyists is > spurring a fight against EV infrastructure in Arizona. > > A Chevron lobbyist is persuading retirees of the company in Arizona to push > back against electric car policies in the state, the Arizona Republic > reports. > > As the article notes, these Chevron retirees are using a form letter > designed to urge Arizona Corporation Commissioners “not to require electric > companies here to build electric car charging stations.” The Chevron > retirees are also not identifying themselves as such, which is what’s > causing the controversy. > > Chevron lobbyist Marian Catedral-King sent the “call to action” form letter > to Sel Larsen, president of the Arizona retirees group. > > But David Newell of Scottsdale alerted the commissioners to the effort with > his own email. It seems the letter got into the hands of the wrong person — > Newell worked for Unocal on geothermal energy projects, but “because that > company was acquired by Chevron, he is considered a Chevron retiree.” > > As Newell wrote to commissioners about Chevron’s efforts: > >I emphatically do not share their point of view. Many of the points > raised in these attachments are irrelevant, inaccurate or misleading. They > are raised in service of preserving the status quo of entrenched interests. > These businesses perceive electric vehicles as a serious threat to their > business model and are attempting to recruit those who might be seen by you > as disinterested parties to promote their interests. > > You can read both the lobbyist letter and Newell’s full response here. As > Newell told the Arizona Republic, > >“It’s within their rights to make their position known. It’s unfair to > enlist people without clearly identifying who they are.” > > Catedral-King did not respond to questions, but Larsen did speak with the > Arizona Republic, saying the retiree group was “not opposed to environmental > issues at all if they are fair.” He also said, > >“If utilities are forced to provide infrastructure, then I pay for their > choice of cars. The government already subsidizes that industry.” > > The article follows that with this fine sentence: “Larsen said he could not > comment on whether Chevron’s oil operations receive any government > subsidies.” > > Court Rich, an Arizona attorney who represents renewable energy interests, > criticized the effort on Twitter: > > He also characterized the move as desperate, telling the Republic: > >“Ironically, I bet this is the same failed tactic that a desperate horse > and buggy lobbyist once used to try and scare the public against gas > automobiles.” > > Chevron announced a partnership with EVgo just last week, as the company is > bringing EVgo’s chargers to some of its gas stations. More than a dozen EVgo > fast chargers are currently operational or under construction at various > Chevron stations in California. > Electrek’s Take > > Chevron’s one hand makes a public display of installing EV chargers while > the other hand secretively urges a group of former employees to fight back > against electric cars in their own state. As we’ve noted, it’s not that > these oil companies want to embrace EV adoption. Old habits die hard — if > they ever die at all. (Astroturfing is becoming a favored technique in the > energy industry.) > > These retirees really should be doing something — anything — better with > their time. Kudos to Newell for being a voice for progress and exposing this > campaign. > [© electrek.co] > ... > https://google.com/search?q=speak+with+forked+tongue > forked tongue > > > https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2019/05/28/chevron-exec-enlists-arizona-retirees-effort-against-electric-cars/3700955002/ > Chevron executive is secretly pushing anti-electric
