Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Improving an EV’s Cabin Heating System
I have a bit over 20 patents, and my experience is pretty much in agreement with Lee's assessment. The USPTO only does a cursory search of prior art. As a result, a patent is just a ticket to permit litigation. Whether or not it is valid is not determined until the litigation is over. Also, according to US patent law, a disclosure must be enabling, meaning it provides enough detail that one "skilled in the art" could reproduce the work. Many do not meet this requirement nor the requirement that it should not be obvious to one skilled in the art. In reality, it only is required to be non-obvious to attorneys and judges. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-Improving-an-EV-s-Cabin-Heating-System-tp4678994p4678998.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Improving an EV’s Cabin Heating System
brucedp5 via EV wrote: http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Slide11.jpg (schematic) Tesla patent shows waste heat from the drive motor and electronics being used to heat the cabin I did this way back in the 1970's. There should be a description of my system on the EVDL archives. The 1970's CitiCar also used waste heat from the motor for the windshield defroster. The result? As a practical matter, there is so little waste heat from an EV's motor and controller that it's hardly worth the bother. If the car takes 10kw to cruise down the road, and its motor is 90% efficient, you only have 1kw of waste heat. And, that's low-quality heat... the temperature is only a little above the outside ambient. I found it was better to use the mass of the batteries as a "heat flywheel". During charging, warm the batteries with heaters and the waste heat from charging. During driving, transfer this heat to the cabin. That cools the batteries; but they are so massive that they don't lose enough temperature to matter in (say) a 1-hour commute to work. My EV had 14 golf cart batteries (1000 lbs) in a 2" styrafoam box. Air ducts let me circulate air through the battery box, then a cabin heater, into the cabin, and then back into the battery box. The motor could also be ducted in, but the smell produced by the brushes was annoying, and it didn't add enough heat to bother with. The article also confuses the peak load needed to warm up a cold car (6kw) with the much lower average load needed to hold it at temperature (1-2kw). Since an EV would normally be plugged in when parked to recharge, it makes more sense to pre-heat the car with AC power, while it is still plugged in. Then you only need 1-2kw to hold it at temperature while driving. Another thing: We've learned to insulate our homes, and plug leaks to keep down the outrageous heating and cooling costs. But cars still have virtually no insulation, and leak air like a sieve. It takes more power to heat/cool a normal car than for a small house! This was tolerable with ICEs, where you had vast amounts of "free" waste heat and huge excesses of horsepower to run air conditioners. But so far, the auto company's EVs are built the same way... no insulation, lots of air leaks. -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Improving an EV’s Cabin Heating System
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: Didn't the EV1 have a heat pump system pretty much identical to this? If so, how can Tesla patent it? First, you can always get a "design" patent. This is like patenting not the wheel itself; but your particular design of it (with, for example, square spokes instead of round spokes). Second, modern patents are so obscurely worded, and patent examiners are so far behind that they often only give a cursory glance to what the patent says. So people can make outrageous claims that are glaringly obvious, or have already been patented a dozen times, and the patent examiner never notices. -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Improving an EV’s Cabin Heating System
Didn't the EV1 have a heat pump system pretty much identical to this? If so, how can Tesla patent it? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
