Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2019-08-14 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
MyNissanLeaf does have schematics (reverse engineered) of the Leaf BMS and
yes, the 430 Ohm resistors are the bypass resistors.
Cor.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 1:08 AM George Tyler via EV  wrote:

> This is what I found there, other forums say something similar.
> "Shunt resisters are 430 ohm across each set of cells. When shunting
> they draw V^2/R power, or roughly 16/430 or 40 mW each. There are 96
> sets of cells, so if all but one was active, total power would be about
> 3.5 watts."
> I suspect that the 420 ohm resistor is not a shunt load. Have you seen
> the circuit?
>
>
> On 14-Aug-19 4:22 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:
> > George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already
> been on mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything
> like that off immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to
> say about this...
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Bob Bath
> >
> > Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54
> y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat
> fingering— not cluelessness.
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS.
> Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed
> when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a
> certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's
> not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring
> wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then
> coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
> >>My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any
> cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge
> inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart
> from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the
> shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> > A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
> >>> Try this, although it seems some of the products are
> discontinued/out-of-stock:
> >>>
> >>> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
> >>>
> > Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
> >>> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is
> put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
> >>>
> >>> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd
> Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run
> barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge
> manually until I get something worked out.
> >>>
> >>> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf bms

2019-08-14 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 Cor,

Could you please give details of your current truck setup? Is this the same one 
that had the ni-cad pack? EV photo album location? Lawrence Rhodes  
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2019-08-14 Thread George Tyler via EV 

This is what I found there, other forums say something similar.
"Shunt resisters are 430 ohm across each set of cells. When shunting 
they draw V^2/R power, or roughly 16/430 or 40 mW each. There are 96 
sets of cells, so if all but one was active, total power would be about 
3.5 watts."
I suspect that the 420 ohm resistor is not a shunt load. Have you seen 
the circuit?



On 14-Aug-19 4:22 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already been on 
mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything like that off 
immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to say about this...

Sincerely,
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. 
vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not 
cluelessness.



On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV  wrote:

 Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS. Circuit is 
very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed when I got 
leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a certain voltage. 
Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's not just a shunt? 
the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring wires to the 
batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then coupled together by 
capacitors, the whole pack.
   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any cells and 
multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge inverters on each 
of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart from some comments that 
it is a small surface mount resistor that is the shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That 
would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.





On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:

A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.

Try this, although it seems some of the products are discontinued/out-of-stock:

https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html


Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.

This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is put up 
and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.

Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd Power 
Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run barefoot 
without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge manually until 
I get something worked out.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2019-08-13 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
The < 10mA bypass capability of the Leaf BMS is the reason that it is working 
ALL THE TIME, as long as there is 12V battery power.
And yes, it *does* keep that whole pack in balance, since good cells have less 
than a few mA self discharge.
I actually run 2 Leaf BMS’es in my EV truck and they keep both Leaf packs 
nicely balanced.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: George Tyler via EV
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:14 PM
To: Mr. Sharkey via EV
Cc: George Tyler
Subject: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

     Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS. 
Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I 
noticed when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just 
above a certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest 
cells, so it's not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series 
with all measuring wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell. 
These points are then coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any 
cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge 
inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart 
from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the 
shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.




On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>
> Try this, although it seems some of the products are 
> discontinued/out-of-stock:
>
> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>
> >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>
> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is 
> put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>
> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd 
> Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run 
> barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and 
> charge manually until I get something worked out.
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2019-08-13 Thread Bob Bath via EV 
George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already been on 
mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything like that off 
immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to say about this...

Sincerely, 
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. 
vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not 
cluelessness. 


> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS. Circuit is 
> very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed when I got 
> leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a certain 
> voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's not just 
> a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring wires to 
> the batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then coupled 
> together by capacitors, the whole pack.
>   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any cells 
> and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge inverters 
> on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart from some 
> comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the shunt, and 
> only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
>> >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Try this, although it seems some of the products are 
>> discontinued/out-of-stock:
>> 
>> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>> 
>> >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>> 
>> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is put 
>> up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>> 
>> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd Power 
>> Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run barefoot 
>> without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge manually 
>> until I get something worked out.
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2016-12-24 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
John,
Inside my head, like lots of other ideas ;)
Since there are others interested in using the LEAF BMS for lower voltage, i 
consider laying out a poststamp circuit to add to the BMS PCB to add an 
opto-coupler and allow aliasing all BMS inputs to less cells. 
Cor

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 5:00 PM, John Lussmyer  wrote:
> 
> On Mon Dec 19 18:36:18 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>> 1. Add another opto-coupler (there already is one for the mid-pack
>> disconnect) and "alias" the top 16 cells to already connected cells.
>> Yes, it will be connected double, but the whole concept of balancing
>> prevents those cells from being drawn down more than others.
> 
> Is there any place where this is discussed/shown ?
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2016-12-24 Thread John Lussmyer via EV 
On Mon Dec 19 18:36:18 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>1. Add another opto-coupler (there already is one for the mid-pack
>disconnect) and "alias" the top 16 cells to already connected cells.
>Yes, it will be connected double, but the whole concept of balancing
>prevents those cells from being drawn down more than others.

Is there any place where this is discussed/shown ?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2016-12-19 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
John,

The BMS will autonomously balance cells with just 12V connected,
provided that all 96 cell inputs are powered.
There are essentially two tricks to use a shorter battery and still have
the BMS do its balancing trick with only minimal extra circuitry and
work,
there is a third way but that essentially is to manually re-program a
processor to do the balancing work that the BMS does when 96 cells are
connected.

The two tricks:
1. Add another opto-coupler (there already is one for the mid-pack
disconnect) and "alias" the top 16 cells to already connected cells.
Yes, it will be connected double, but the whole concept of balancing
prevents those cells from being drawn down more than others.
2. Add an external power supply that provides more than the 10mA that
the BMS balances and powers each of the 16 unconnected inputs, so you
need about 48V power and divide it in 16 steps of 3V to keep the BMS
working. It will not be too happy about the unbalance, so you might up
the voltage to make it better in line with the other cells (typically
more around 4V each) but that is the concept.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of John Lussmyer
via EV
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 6:22 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

Another Leaf question.
How will the BMS react if there are only 40 modules in the string,
instead of 48?

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

2016-12-19 Thread Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV 
It gets upset. Which is why WolfTronix came up with that special spoofer
device. It sits there and pretends to be modules so that the BMS is happy.
:)



[image: --]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
[image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney


On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 6:21 PM, John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> Another Leaf question.
> How will the BMS react if there are only 40 modules in the string, instead
> of 48?
>
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> projects/sensibleemail/
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