Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison
On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote: Also, TCO usually means we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist. * aka. paid a company to make charts At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO numbers. ;) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com wrote: Virginia, I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too. Besides the cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison. http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/ I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few years ago and they chose RedDot. At the time, the price for their .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run about $330K in US$. Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now OpenText) price was, even. Probably not a lot more, though. Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or staging. Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge. Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc. With the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support, access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis, but others would disagree. -Ken Nate Aune wrote: i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products. http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx found via Cynapse blog: http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint Nate On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy virgi...@pretaweb.com mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution? Thanks Virginia ~ Virginia Choy Business Development Manager PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia P: 612-8081-9072 M: 0423-198-306 W: www.pretaweb.com http://www.pretaweb.com Sales Support: 02-9955-2830 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org mailto:Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism Plone has been shown to be the least expensive web dev environment of all, save raw xhtml and css, at least for me, if only based on getting the job done. All promises look inexpensive until the rubber hits the road. Based on comparisons between custom apps developed jsp and plone, plone is bar none the hands down winner as far as speed to the gate and working features. No comparison. I have fired all web-dev and do it using plone. It is hard to impress how significant this capacity is, for a designer, being able to even program a form without contracting a programmer. What a significant hurdle that simple function presents. Plone has shown it gets the job done, vanilla. Many discussions on the plone-user list regarding deployment issues turn out moot or redundant. Plone is great software. For comparison, Codeigniter offer a Zope-like interface into lamphp but lacks a graphical ttw plone-like interface, which I intuitively know to be significant but am unable to articulate the manifold advantages this gives plone. But I know if offers another context in which to interface with and manipulate the Zope Object DataBase, a development context that Codigniter
Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison
Norman, What type of shop do you run or work at, and where are you located? It'd be great to get more user/adopter/designer/developer user stories out there by way of interview/ustream/youtube. There's been a lot of FUD put out there by the PHP-ers of the world about how difficult Plone was to get ramped up with. They leave out that PHP is the only scripting technology that they know and that Plone doesn't use PHP, of course. Anyhow, if you can do a self-produced video/screencast of the things you've found that Plone makes easy that you haven't found in other tools, it would be so powerful in getting the word out. This type of message from Plone integrators just doesn't carry as much weight. Thanks, Ken Wasetis www.contextualcorp.com Norman Fournier wrote: On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote: Also, TCO usually means we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist. * aka. paid a company to make charts At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO numbers. ;) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net http://limi.net/ On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com mailto:ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com wrote: Virginia, I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too. Besides the cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison. http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/ I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few years ago and they chose RedDot. At the time, the price for their .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run about $330K in US$. Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now OpenText) price was, even. Probably not a lot more, though. Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or staging. Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge. Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc. With the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support, access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis, but others would disagree. -Ken Nate Aune wrote: i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products. http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx found via Cynapse blog: http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint Nate On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy virgi...@pretaweb.com mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution? Thanks Virginia ~ Virginia Choy Business Development Manager PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia P: 612-8081-9072 M: 0423-198-306 W: www.pretaweb.com http://www.pretaweb.com/ http://www.pretaweb.com http://www.pretaweb.com/ Sales Support: 02-9955-2830 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org
[Evangelism] cost comparison
Hi, Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution? Thanks Virginia ~ Virginia Choy Business Development Manager PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia P: 612-8081-9072 M: 0423-198-306 W: www.pretaweb.com Sales Support: 02-9955-2830 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison
i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products. http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx found via Cynapse blog: http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint Nate On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy virgi...@pretaweb.com wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution? Thanks Virginia ~ Virginia Choy Business Development Manager PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia P: 612-8081-9072 M: 0423-198-306 W: www.pretaweb.com Sales Support: 02-9955-2830 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism -- Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com http://www.jazkarta.com http://card.ly/natea http://tungle.me/natea +1 (617) 517-4953 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison
Also, TCO usually means we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist. * aka. paid a company to make charts At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO numbers. ;) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com wrote: Virginia, I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too. Besides the cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison. http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/ I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few years ago and they chose RedDot. At the time, the price for their .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run about $330K in US$. Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now OpenText) price was, even. Probably not a lot more, though. Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or staging. Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge. Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc. With the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support, access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis, but others would disagree. -Ken Nate Aune wrote: i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products. http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx found via Cynapse blog: http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint Nate On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy virgi...@pretaweb.commailto: virgi...@pretaweb.com wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution? Thanks Virginia ~ Virginia Choy Business Development Manager PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia P: 612-8081-9072 M: 0423-198-306 W: www.pretaweb.com http://www.pretaweb.com Sales Support: 02-9955-2830 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org mailto:Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism -- Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com mailto:na...@jazkarta.com http://www.jazkarta.com http://card.ly/natea http://tungle.me/natea +1 (617) 517-4953 ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
