Re: 1P/3P CONFUSION again and again

[Bruno Marchal]

On 16 Aug 2015, at 22:24, John Clark wrote:



On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Bruno Marchal   
wrote:


​>> ​​You again! John Clark expects that Bruno Marchal​ ​ 
will continue to use words in the "proof" that implicitly assumes  
the very thing it's trying to prove.  ​


​> ​Are you joking or what?

​I'm not joking so I guess it's what.​

YOU told me that "YOU" is not ambiguous BEFORE the duplication,

​Yes.​


OK, so you agree on this important thing. Let us see where is the  
problem, then...






​> ​which is when the question "What do you expect..."  is asked.

​First of all what somebody expects to happen has no bearing on  
this matter,



Look again at the paper or the post. The question in step 3 bears  
explicitly on what somebody expect to live subjectively.


This is your other frequent maneuver: you change the question asked.





only what does happen is important .


NOT AT ALL. What does happen is 3p, and the question is about the 1p.

You just change the question asked.




And secondly the entire ​question is "what will happen to you AFTER  
YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED?".


AFTER, yes. But the question is asked before.




And the answer to that question has no single answer because YOU HAS  
BEEN DUPLICATED.


Absolutely correct ... if we were asked what will happen, and not, as  
in step 3, what we expect to live subjectively.




To maintain that only one thing can happen to two things is just  
silly.


False. When we interview the two copies, they both confirm that they  
live only one thing (W or M) happening. And comp makes this  
predictable in advance. You just keep taking about the 3p, but that is  
NOT was is asked at the step 3.








​> ​It is like when you say you don't know what comp is, when by  
definition comp is used for the indexical version I gave of  
computationalism


​I know what ​computationalism​ is, and countless times on  
this ​list I've seen "according to comp this will happen but   
according to comp that will not happen"; so I know that "comp" and  
computationalism ​are not the same thing and are not even close,  
but what "comp" actually is remains a mystery to me.​


Comp means computationalism, and if you believe something is wrong in  
"comp => step 3", it is up to you to just show the flaw. Not just  
chnaging the 1p into 3p in the question.


But you illustrate that you got the point here, as you are forced to  
change the step 3 question to maintain your point, but that is  
logically equivalent to a proof by a reductio ad absurdum of my point.


You have just brilliantly show that when you try to avoid making a  
blatant logical error in the attempt of a refutation that COMP entails  
STEP 3, you are FORCED to change the question.


So come back to the question which is explicitly on what the guy in  
Helsinki can expect to happen subjectively. Once you keep in mind the  
question asked, P(W v M)= 1  is trivial, and P(W & M) = 0 is false.


So your error, or better, your maneuver in this post has consisted in  
changing the 1p notion used in the question by the 3p. It is no more a  
confusion between 1p and 3p, it is a direct change of the 1p of the  
question into a 3p.


That is hardly equivalent with finding a flaw. Try better, or just  
stop denying that you get the point, and move on step 4.


Bruno


PS got a lot of work. My comment might be delayed a bit.


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: The Mental Being

[Bruno Marchal]

On 16 Aug 2015, at 21:52, John Mikes wrote:


Brent:
did it slip your mind that your friend, the prez started the Arab  
Awakening by stabbing Mubarak in the back by his letter and  
supporting the US-enemy Morsi ("The first DEMOCRATICALLY(?) elected  
Egyptian prez and his Brotherhood!!!) together with his then Foreign  
Sec'y Hillary, giving billions in weapons etc.



I agree, and he even threatened the Egyptians when they decide to put  
back the army into power once they grasped the dark antisecular (and  
anti-christian and anti-semite) motivation of the Muslim Brotherhood,  
which is also responsible for aborting the Oslo peace treatise in  
Palestine (Israel).


The politics of Obama in the Middle east consist almost in suppressing  
secular power for radical pseudo-religious fanatics. And some speech  
almost look like he is anti-zionist (which is for me squared anti- 
semitism).


Then he made discourse on Islam, defending the "moderate Muslim". But  
the expression "moderate Muslim" has been invented by the Brotherhood  
itself. Moderate just means non-salafiste, but remain still again  
secularism, christianism, jews, etc.


Then Obama signed the NDAA 2012. That was predicted by many, and I was  
pretty sure that it was just "paranoid conspiracy". But I follow that  
very closely, and during the night of the 31 december 2011, he signed,  
and countersigned it too (promising not to apply it). Yet, he will  
continue to use the patriot act, notably on Susan Lindauer  
(whistleblowers of the CIA, allegedly).



- then again  he stuffed the investors' etc. pockets with our health- 
care billion dollars and
sent further hundredthousand Americans to their demise in the Middle  
East (very few come home sane and safe)

and so on and on. But he is a religious(?) chap.


It is a puppet of the prohibitionists bandits, and the NDAA bill of  
2012 is literally a confession of terrorism. If the NDAA was literally  
applied, the top of the Obama and Bush administration should be the  
first to be detained for indefinite period as they are legitimate  
suspect of complicity of terrorism, given that the NDAA 2012 is a  
terrorist clause. Obama could have said more simply "the terrorist  
have won".


Since then I decided to study in detail the "official theory of 9/11.  
The evidences of some complicity on the ground, and of some long term  
preparation get much more numerous than the official doctrine.


Then, the subject became taboo (a sign of presence of lies to me) and  
when you ask how could two plane crashes can lead to apparent control- 
demolition, people categorize you in "defender of inside job" or  
"conspiracy theorist" without ever mentioning that it might just be  
the Islamist who could have done that planning in advance, may be with  
very few "inside" accomplices. That is straw man.


Of course the fact that in 2015 cannabis is still schedule 1 is enough  
to have few doubt in *some* conspiracy, and the book of Jack Herer is  
quite convincing and rigorous on this. We knew since 1974 that THC  
shrink tumor in mice brain cancer, and that the research has been  
prevented to be pursued. That is criminal enough for me (that was done  
at the time of Gerald Ford).


If 5 years of prohibition of alcohol give Al Capone, 70 years of  
prohibition of cannabis and opium/heroin might very well have given  
9/11 and ISIL. I have predicted more than 30 years ago that if  
prohibition last, the planet would become a big "Chicago", and the  
lies would develop in all directions, and I am afraid the facts  
corroborate this (despite I have denied it to myself for more than 10  
years: as it is only in 2011 that I realize that the war on terrorism  
get the same look as the war on drug).


The fact that we keep relation with the Saudi, despite they have  
prohibit atheism, or even any other religious opinion, in their  
countries is  striking.


Now, I still trust more the Americans than anyone else to eventually  
bring all the light and put all the prohibitionists in jail, or  
amnesty them properly. It might take some times though, but there is  
no choice in the matter.


Note that I am not saying that 9/11 is an inside job. It can be an  
outside job with some help from inside. The fact that there is no  
inquest on this might be due to the will of hiding or protecting some  
accomplice at a high level, not that it was a decision made at a high  
level. Hiding scandal is a frequent human reaction.





Atheism is more than just absence of belief IMO: it requires a  
supernatural to disbelief in it.


I agree, although it would be more precise to say that it requires a  
*notion* of supernatural to disbelieve in it. (without that precision  
people will find (straw man) counter-examples).


Now, many atheist want to count the agnostic on their side, and they  
have enlarged the meaning of atheism to do that, but then the word  
obliterates the gigantic gap between believe (Not God), and Not  
Believe

Re: 1P/3P CONFUSION again and again

[John Clark]

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015  Bruno Marchal  wrote:

​>> ​
>> First of all what somebody expects to happen has no bearing on this
>> matter,only what does happen is important .
>
>

​> ​
> NOT AT ALL.
>

Bruno Marchal
​ expects one thing to happen, John Clark expects another thing to happen
and Ed expects a third, we can't all be right but we can all be wrong.​


> ​> ​
> What does happen is 3p, and the question is about the 1p.
>

What! So whatever really does happen to ​
Bruno Marchal
​ after the duplication there will be no 1p? After the duplication
 ​
Bruno Marchal
​ will have no subjective experience?? ​


> ​> ​
> You just change the question asked.
>

​No I didn't change a question, I changed gibberish into a question. ​


​>>   ​
> And secondly the entire question is "what will happen to you AFTER YOU
> HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED?".


> ​> ​
> AFTER, yes. But the question is asked before.
>

​To answer the question "what one and only one thing will happen to you
AFTER the duplication?" ​there must be a clear understanding of what one
and only one thing YOU will be AFTER the duplication when YOU is no longer
one and has become *TWO*. And a clear understanding of gibberish can never
happen so there is no answer because there is no question. However if we
asked "what will happen to Ed after the duplication?" then that question
would not be gibberish and if Ed were rational Ed could correctly answer
it.

​> ​
> And comp makes this predictable in advance.
>

​I don't care what "comp" does.​

​>> ​
>> ​I know what ​computationalism
>> ​ is, and countless times on this ​list I've seen "according to comp this
>> will happen but  according to comp that will not happen"; so I know that
>> "comp" and
>> computationalism
>> ​are not the same thing and are not even close, but what "comp" actually
>> is remains a mystery to me.​
>>
>
> ​> ​
> Comp means computationalism
>

​I know what ​computationalism
​ is, and countless times on this ​list I've seen "according to comp this
will happen but according to comp that will not happen"; so I know that
"comp" and
computationalism
​are not the same thing and are not even close, but what "comp" actually is
remains a mystery to me.​


​  John K Clark​

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: The Mental Being

[John Mikes]

Brent, I really hate to contrast you, I appreciate your mind and stances.
However:

*"About 1700 US troops died in Afghanistan in six years under Obama. About
600 died under Bush.  In Iraq 256 died under Obama, and 4500 under Bush.
But a "further hundred thousand" is accurate enough for Fox News."*

is official warmonger statistics, counting only select cadavers 'over
there' and discounting the victims of dying en-route or at home, later on
outside the official  statistical restraints. I wrote about 'victims'
(called heros?) forced into war and I also referred to other type victims,
like those who came home with injuries (bodily AND/OR mentally) plus those
whose lifes has been interrupted (marriage, careet, family etc.) why I
wrote *"sent to"* and not *"returned dead"*. It is not a Fox soundbite, I
am not supporting either of our political parties.
(Your supporting Sanders seems commendable, although not too hopeful.)

JM





On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 5:31 PM, meekerdb  wrote:

> On 8/16/2015 12:52 PM, John Mikes wrote:
>
>> Brent:
>> did it slip your mind that your friend, the prez started the Arab
>> Awakening by stabbing Mubarak in the back by his letter and supporting the
>> US-enemy Morsi ("The first DEMOCRATICALLY(?) elected Egyptian prez and his
>> Brotherhood!!!)
>>
>
> What's your point?...that we should have continued to support Mubarak the
> same way we did the Shah in Iran?  I don't think Morsi was a US enemy
> except in the sense that any despotic tyrant should not be regarded as a US
> friend.
>
> together with his then Foreign Sec'y Hillary, giving billions in weapons
>> etc.
>>
>
> Egypt has been a big recipient of U.S. foreign aid since WW2, but it only
> gets about half as much as Israel.
>
> - then again  he stuffed the investors' etc. pockets with our health-care
>> billion dollars
>>
>
> Sounds like you write sound-bites for Fox News.  Under Obama the rate of
> growth in per capita healthcare cost has been brought down closer to the
> overall inflation rate.  So there are no extra billions for investors in
> health care.
>
> and
>> sent further hundredthousand Americans to their demise in the Middle East
>> (very few come home sane and safe)
>>
>
> About 1700 US troops died in Afghanistan in six years under Obama. About
> 600 died under Bush.  In Iraq 256 died under Obama, and 4500 under Bush.
> But a "further hundred thousand" is accurate enough for Fox News.
>
> and so on and on. But he is a religious(?) chap.
>>
>> Atheism is more than just absence of belief IMO: it requires a
>> supernatural to disbelief in it.
>>
>
> So does disbelief in witches require that witches exist "to disbelief
> in"?  How about your disbelief in a competent Obama?  Does it require that
> a competent Obama exist?
>
> I look at a 'religiously motivated violence' with suspicion since I still
>> look for a fitting definition for 'religious'. I asked Samiya where does
>> 'Satan' come into the picture in vain. IMO every thinking person starts out
>> with SOME belief (e.g. the existence (reality?) of an infinite complexity
>> we like to call 'WORLD'' of which we only know a small fraction.)
>>
>> Telmo's 'douchebag' is a criminal: he lured character-weak persons into
>> his casinos to take their money (legitimately!) and added it to his
>> billions. Every gambling Bigboss is a criminal. I saw too much in my 93
>> years so far.
>>
>> I am not an ''A"- THEIST, I am an ágnostic.
>>
>
> So you're uncertain as to whether there's an extremely powerful person who
> created the world and loves you and wants you to love him and if you don't
> he'll torture you forever in an afterlife.  Just how uncertain are you
> about this?  50:50?  40:60?
>
>
> Brent
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: The Mental Being

[John Mikes]

Samiya: thanks for your detailed reply. I do not play straw-man so I let it
go.
JM

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:27 AM, Samiya Illias 
wrote:

> John M,
> I'm not sure exactly what you had earlier asked about Satan and how I had
> attempted to answer it.I will try to answer 'where does 'Satan' come into
> the picture?' here.  However, my scripture informs me that we can only
> warn with this Quran those who believe in the unseen, hence perhaps that is
> the reason why our discussions have been in vain.
>
> May I ask why you refuse to admit the existence of a supernatural when you
> yourself admit that we know only a small fraction of the infinite
> complexity? And what do you mean by 'supernatural'? Do you use this term to
> refer to 'The Creator of Nature'?
>
> So, coming back to your question:  'where does 'Satan' come into the
> picture?' The following is as I understand it from the Quran.
> However, due to gaps in my understanding, the sequence of the events may be
> different, as I attempt to collect my thoughts:
>
> God, Allah: The Creator, The Sustainer, The King and The Deity, created
> everything for some purpose.
> He created dJinns and Humans to serve Him. He created dJinns from Fire and
> Humans from Clay.  The dJinns were created earlier, the humans later.
> However, there was a period of time when humans were nothing worth
> mentioning. Excerpts from my blogpost Human Evolution [
> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/human-evolution.html]:
> *Earthly Origins*
> [Al-Qur’an 71:17, Translator: Sahih International] And Allah has *caused
> you to grow from the earth* a [progressive] growth.
> *Pre-historic Humans *
> [Al-Qur’an 76:1, Translator: Sahih International] Has there [not] come
> upon man *a period of time* *when he was not a thing [even] mentioned*?
> *Perfection through Evolution *
> [Al-Qur’an 32:7-9, Translator: Sahih International] *Who perfected
> everything which He created* and *began* the creation of man from clay. *Then
> He made his posterity* out of the extract of a liquid disdained. *Then He
> proportioned him and breathed into him *from His [created] soul and made
> for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.
> [unquote]
>
> The Trust was offered to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains, all refused,
> scared to undertake the responsibility. Human undertook it.
> This act of being a Trustee necessitates that God judges humans, punishing
> the idolaters and the hypocrites, while rewarding the believers.
> Quran 33:72-73  Lo! *We offered the trust* unto
> the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it
> and were afraid of it. *And man assumed it. *Lo! he hath proved a tyrant
> and a fool. *So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women,
> and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men
> and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful*.
> However, the Compassionate and Just God is not going to punish anyone for
> no fault of theirs. Hence, after creating Adam, God took out Adam's progeny
> (all potential consciousnesses) and asked us all if He[God] is their god.
> We all testified to it, and hence each one of us is a witness to our own
> covenant with God.
> Quran 7:172-174  And [mention] *when your
> Lord took from the children of Adam* - from their loins - *their
> descendants and made them testify of themselves,* [saying to them],*"Am I
> not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified."* [This] - lest you
> should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this
> unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated
> [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after
> them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And
> thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return.
>
> To establish its eligibility to inherit the eternal Garden(s), each
> consciousness also receives its own temporal life on Earth to prove its
> worth as a Trustee, and each will be judged individually.
>
> After God blew His Spirit in Adam, He asked all angels to prostrate/submit
> to Adam. However, Iblis (Satan / The Chief Deceiver) refused. His refusal
> to submit to Adam was based upon arrogance. He believes that his being
> created from Fire makes him superior to Adam who is created from Clay. Not
> all dJinns are evil, but Satan and his progeny are the sworn enemies of
> mankind. They watch us from where we cannot see them (another dimension /
> shadow biosphere / ??) and they are able to whisper suggestions to our
> minds (desires / temptations / expectations / fears / doubts / ?? ).
> Whether to act upon the suggestions or to resist them is in our control.
> Satan and his progeny do not have any real power upon us. Our intellect and
> our conscience are great blessings, and we must use them together to
> overcome the challenges.
>
> We are clearly and rep

Re: The Mental Being

[meekerdb]

On 8/17/2015 1:52 PM, John Mikes wrote:

Brent, I really hate to contrast you, I appreciate your mind and stances.
However:

/"About 1700 US troops died in Afghanistan in six years under Obama. About 600 died 
under Bush.  In Iraq 256 died under Obama, and 4500 under Bush.  But a "further hundred 
thousand" is accurate enough for Fox News."/

/
/
is official warmonger statistics, counting only select cadavers 'over there' and 
discounting the victims of dying en-route or at home, later on outside the official 
 statistical restraints. I wrote about 'victims' (called heros?) forced into war and I 
also referred to other type victims, like those who came home with injuries (bodily 
AND/OR mentally) plus those whose lifes has been interrupted (marriage, careet, family 
etc.) why I wrote *"sent to"* and not *"returned dead"*.


"sent to their /*demise*/" is what you wrote.  demise = die.

Brent


It is not a Fox soundbite, I am not supporting either of our political parties.
(Your supporting Sanders seems commendable, although not too hopeful.)

JM


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: The Mental Being

[John Mikes]

Sorry for my inaccurate English (the 5th I learned) - I wanted to express
deterioration, not total annihilation.
John

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM, meekerdb  wrote:

> On 8/17/2015 1:52 PM, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Brent, I really hate to contrast you, I appreciate your mind and stances.
> However:
>
> *"About 1700 US troops died in Afghanistan in six years under Obama. About
> 600 died under Bush.  In Iraq 256 died under Obama, and 4500 under Bush.
> But a "further hundred thousand" is accurate enough for Fox News."*
>
> is official warmonger statistics, counting only select cadavers 'over
> there' and discounting the victims of dying en-route or at home, later on
> outside the official  statistical restraints. I wrote about 'victims'
> (called heros?) forced into war and I also referred to other type victims,
> like those who came home with injuries (bodily AND/OR mentally) plus those
> whose lifes has been interrupted (marriage, careet, family etc.) why I
> wrote *"sent to"* and not *"returned dead"*.
>
>
> "sent to their *demise*" is what you wrote.  demise = die.
>
> Brent
>
> It is not a Fox soundbite, I am not supporting either of our political
> parties.
> (Your supporting Sanders seems commendable, although not too hopeful.)
>
> JM
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: The Mental Being

[Samiya Illias]

I asked you what you meant by the term supernatural because you present 
conflicting views, or so they appear to me. I don't see how that becomes 
playing straw man. However, I understand if you feel we've exhausted the 
discussion. 
Regards, 
Samiya 

> On 18-Aug-2015, at 1:54 am, John Mikes  wrote:
> 
> Samiya: thanks for your detailed reply. I do not play straw-man so I let it 
> go. 
> JM
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:27 AM, Samiya Illias  
>> wrote:
>> John M, 
>> I'm not sure exactly what you had earlier asked about Satan and how I had 
>> attempted to answer it.I will try to answer 'where does 'Satan' come into 
>> the picture?' here.  However, my scripture informs me that we can only warn 
>> with this Quran those who believe in the unseen, hence perhaps that is the 
>> reason why our discussions have been in vain. 
>> 
>> May I ask why you refuse to admit the existence of a supernatural when you 
>> yourself admit that we know only a small fraction of the infinite 
>> complexity? And what do you mean by 'supernatural'? Do you use this term to 
>> refer to 'The Creator of Nature'?  
>> 
>> So, coming back to your question:  'where does 'Satan' come into the 
>> picture?' The following is as I understand it from the Quran. However, due 
>> to gaps in my understanding, the sequence of the events may be different, as 
>> I attempt to collect my thoughts: 
>> 
>> God, Allah: The Creator, The Sustainer, The King and The Deity, created 
>> everything for some purpose. 
>> He created dJinns and Humans to serve Him. He created dJinns from Fire and 
>> Humans from Clay.  The dJinns were created earlier, the humans later. 
>> However, there was a period of time when humans were nothing worth 
>> mentioning. Excerpts from my blogpost Human Evolution 
>> [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/human-evolution.html]:
>> Earthly Origins
>> [Al-Qur’an 71:17, Translator: Sahih International] And Allah has caused you 
>> to grow from the earth a [progressive] growth. 
>> Pre-historic Humans 
>> [Al-Qur’an 76:1, Translator: Sahih International] Has there [not] come upon 
>> man a period of time when he was not a thing [even] mentioned?   
>> Perfection through Evolution 
>> [Al-Qur’an 32:7-9, Translator: Sahih International] Who perfected everything 
>> which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his 
>> posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained. Then He proportioned him 
>> and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and 
>> vision and hearts; little are you grateful. 
>> [unquote] 
>> 
>> The Trust was offered to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains, all refused, 
>> scared to undertake the responsibility. Human undertook it. 
>> This act of being a Trustee necessitates that God judges humans, punishing 
>> the idolaters and the hypocrites, while rewarding the believers. 
>> Quran 33:72-73 Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and 
>> the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man 
>> assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. So Allah punisheth 
>> hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous 
>> women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is 
>> ever Forgiving, Merciful. 
>> However, the Compassionate and Just God is not going to punish anyone for no 
>> fault of theirs. Hence, after creating Adam, God took out Adam's progeny 
>> (all potential consciousnesses) and asked us all if He[God] is their god. We 
>> all testified to it, and hence each one of us is a witness to our own 
>> covenant with God.
>> Quran 7:172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam 
>> - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, 
>> [saying to them],"Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." 
>> [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of 
>> this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated 
>> [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after 
>> them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And thus 
>> do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return.
>> 
>> To establish its eligibility to inherit the eternal Garden(s), each 
>> consciousness also receives its own temporal life on Earth to prove its 
>> worth as a Trustee, and each will be judged individually. 
>>  
>> After God blew His Spirit in Adam, He asked all angels to prostrate/submit 
>> to Adam. However, Iblis (Satan / The Chief Deceiver) refused. His refusal to 
>> submit to Adam was based upon arrogance. He believes that his being created 
>> from Fire makes him superior to Adam who is created from Clay. Not all 
>> dJinns are evil, but Satan and his progeny are the sworn enemies of mankind. 
>> They watch us from where we cannot see them (another dimension / shadow 
>> biosphere / ??) and they are able to whi