Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very fast and 
randomly, indeed. It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a 
statistical mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the 
Big Bang. here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge 
is not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and then 
use this against despair. Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best 
resolved by hypercomputing. This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, 
to achieve this goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to 
decide when we are pleased with the result. 

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Mandela effect?







On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

Never heard of it before.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/




I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and with what 
Bruno said).


It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas though:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect


I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at a bar, 
started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with the sort of 
ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular before in 
smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation. Our hypothesis 
was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a random path, we 
would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep up". It didn't work, 
but these days we could have started an Internet movement.


Best,

Telmo.




 

Brent

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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Never heard of it before.
>
> http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/
>


I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and with
what Bruno said).

It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas
though:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect

I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at a
bar, started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with
the sort of ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular
before in smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation.
Our hypothesis was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a
random path, we would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep
up". It didn't work, but these days we could have started an Internet
movement.

Best,
Telmo.



>
> Brent
>
> --
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> "Everything List" group.
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>

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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very fast
> and randomly, indeed.


Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only computes
some sphere around the current part of the universe you're observing. Then
it might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute likely future states.
Driving randomly would be an attempt to fuck with that algorithm. Of course
this would have to be a scenario where our perception channels are hijacked
but our cognition is performed in the real world. If Our cognition is part
of the simulation, it can just take more outside-the-simulation time to
compute the next simulation moment and the inhabitants of the simulation
won't notice.


> It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical
> mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the Big
> Bang.


My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's the
common ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far enough in time
your are bound to observe it. My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of
the big bang is shared by all universes and belongs to all histories.


> here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge is
> not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and
> then use this against despair.


I agree.


> Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by
> hypercomputing. This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to
> achieve this goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to
> decide when we are pleased with the result.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
> Subject: Re: Mandela effect?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Never heard of it before.
>>
>> http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/
>>
>
>
> I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and with
> what Bruno said).
>
> It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas
> though:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect
>
> I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at a
> bar, started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with
> the sort of ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular
> before in smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation.
> Our hypothesis was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a
> random path, we would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep
> up". It didn't work, but these days we could have started an Internet
> movement.
>
> Best,
> Telmo.
>
>
>
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>
> --
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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Ha! Your imagery of messing with the simulation, reminds me of the old film The 
13th Floor. If it is indeed a sim, then its really, really, big. Not 
impossible, but much bigger and much more complex than a game. I read this from 
one of the physicists on FQXI, some years ago. "It could be all real, with 
strong similarities to a sim, or it could be a sim, with solid aspects of a 
genuine reality." My guess if that there is a Multiverse, it has some kind of 
regulator controlling, spawning, an array, an If Then Else code. We, as a 
species, find evidence of all this, if such exists, and then, if discovered or 
even suggested, we need to apply this to our lives and civilization. 
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 9:27 am
Subject: Re: Mandela effect?







On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very fast and 
randomly, indeed. 


Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only computes 
some sphere around the current part of the universe you're observing. Then it 
might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute likely future states. Driving 
randomly would be an attempt to fuck with that algorithm. Of course this would 
have to be a scenario where our perception channels are hijacked but our 
cognition is performed in the real world. If Our cognition is part of the 
simulation, it can just take more outside-the-simulation time to compute the 
next simulation moment and the inhabitants of the simulation won't notice.

 
It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical mechanics 
analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the Big Bang.


My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's the common 
ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far enough in time your are 
bound to observe it. My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of the big bang is 
shared by all universes and belongs to all histories.

 
 here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge is not 
merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and then use 
this against despair.


I agree.

 
 Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by 
hypercomputing. This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to achieve 
this goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to decide when 
we are pleased with the result. 


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Mandela effect?







On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

Never heard of it before.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/




I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and with what 
Bruno said).


It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas though:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect


I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at a bar, 
started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with the sort of 
ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular before in 
smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation. Our hypothesis 
was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a random path, we 
would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep up". It didn't work, 
but these days we could have started an Internet movement.


Best,

Telmo.




 

Brent

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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Bruno Marchal


On 04 Oct 2015, at 15:26, Telmo Menezes wrote:




On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> wrote:
As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive  
very fast and randomly, indeed.


Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only  
computes some sphere around the current part of the universe you're  
observing. Then it might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute  
likely future states. Driving randomly would be an attempt to fuck  
with that algorithm. Of course this would have to be a scenario  
where our perception channels are hijacked but our cognition is  
performed in the real world. If Our cognition is part of the  
simulation, it can just take more outside-the-simulation time to  
compute the next simulation moment and the inhabitants of the  
simulation won't notice.


It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical  
mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the  
Big Bang.


My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's  
the common ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far  
enough in time your are bound to observe it.


I tend to agree, but I think this should be derived when Qm will be  
derived.




My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of the big bang is shared by  
all universes and belongs to all histories.


With all the Coebe dispersion, making already a lot of quasi-classical  
histories possible, but with all the same physical laws. But a sooner  
diffraction of realities exist too.


Now, I can' be sure that what we call the big bang is the real big  
bang or start of the physical histories. It might be a collision of  
branes, or just a very big explosion, among infinitely many, I mean  
the "terrestrial reality" can run very deep.





here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The  
challenge is not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover  
what is true, and then use this against despair.


I agree.


Despair is a complex topic. I do think that the pursuit of truth can  
help or should help.
The lies and the false, which can help locally, only make things  
harder later.






Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by  
hypercomputing.


I comment on spudboy100, here. I don't think so. With hyper-computing,  
you will get only hyper-problem, and you will need to pay hypertaxes.   
Of course, that is good investment, especially if the humans want to  
remained connected when colliding with Andromeda.


The harm reduction is more in the acceptance of lack of perfect  
solution, and in detaching from certainty, which can help solidify the  
basic perhaps eternal values.






This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to achieve this  
goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to decide  
when we are pleased with the result.


A basic implementation of a basic loop, OK.

Bruno







-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Mandela effect?



On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net>  
wrote:

Never heard of it before.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/


I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and  
with what Bruno said).


It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird  
ideas though:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect

I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls  
at a bar, started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We  
came up with the sort of ideas that later became popular in the  
Matrix (and were popular before in smaller circles, of course), and  
decided to test the simulation. Our hypothesis was that, if we  
started driving fast and always choosing a random path, we would  
eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep up". It didn't  
work, but these days we could have started an Internet movement.


Best,
Telmo.



Brent

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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 15:26, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very
>> fast and randomly, indeed.
>
>
> Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only
> computes some sphere around the current part of the universe you're
> observing. Then it might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute likely
> future states. Driving randomly would be an attempt to fuck with that
> algorithm. Of course this would have to be a scenario where our perception
> channels are hijacked but our cognition is performed in the real world. If
> Our cognition is part of the simulation, it can just take more
> outside-the-simulation time to compute the next simulation moment and the
> inhabitants of the simulation won't notice.
>
>
>> It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical
>> mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the Big
>> Bang.
>
>
> My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's the
> common ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far enough in time
> your are bound to observe it.
>
>
> I tend to agree, but I think this should be derived when Qm will be
> derived.
>

Sure, I don't claim the above to be anything more than a hunch.


>
>
>
> My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of the big bang is shared by all
> universes and belongs to all histories.
>
>
> With all the Coebe dispersion, making already a lot of quasi-classical
> histories possible, but with all the same physical laws. But a sooner
> diffraction of realities exist too.
>
> Now, I can' be sure that what we call the big bang is the real big bang or
> start of the physical histories. It might be a collision of branes, or just
> a very big explosion, among infinitely many, I mean the "terrestrial
> reality" can run very deep.
>

Ok, but even then I'm not sure the both ideas are mutually exclusive. Can
the multiverse contain two copies of the same moment? What would that mean?

I have a similar position in regards to simulations. Suppose you have a
perfect simulation of the middle ages running in a computer. The
inhabitants are not aware that they are in a simulation, but their entire
universe is exactly the same as the original in terms of information
content. Can you really claim that you created a "copy" of the middle ages,
or did you just figure out a way to make all the information available from
your perspective?

I see the simulation hypothesis as more of a way to connect dots in a graph
more than a model of nested dolls. I think the latter implies mysticism --
that the computational medium as any bearing on the experience of the
computed entities.


>
>
>
>
>> here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge is
>> not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and
>> then use this against despair.
>
>
> I agree.
>
>
> Despair is a complex topic. I do think that the pursuit of truth can help
> or should help.
>

I think so too.


> The lies and the false, which can help locally, only make things harder
> later.
>

Yes, and lies can be very subtle.


>
>
>
>
>
>> Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by
>> hypercomputing.
>
>
> I comment on spudboy100, here. I don't think so. With hyper-computing, you
> will get only hyper-problem, and you will need to pay hypertaxes.  Of
> course, that is good investment, especially if the humans want to remained
> connected when colliding with Andromeda.
>
> The harm reduction is more in the acceptance of lack of perfect solution,
> and in detaching from certainty, which can help solidify the basic perhaps
> eternal values.
>
>
>
>
>
> This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to achieve this goal. We
>> use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to decide when we are
>> pleased with the result.
>>
>
> A basic implementation of a basic loop, OK.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
>> Subject: Re: Mandela effect?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never heard of it before.
>>>
>>>

Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 2015-10-04 15:26 GMT+02:00 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
>> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very
>>> fast and randomly, indeed.
>>
>>
>> Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only
>> computes some sphere around the current part of the universe you're
>> observing. Then it might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute likely
>> future states. Driving randomly would be an attempt to fuck with that
>> algorithm.
>>
>
> That presupose you're not part yourself of the algorithm... so where is
> your consciousness computed ?
>

Well, I guess this would have to be a Matrix-like scenario. You are just
alive in some other reality but have your nervous system hijacked so that
inputs/outputs to through the simulation.

Give me a break, I was 18 and heart-broken :)


> If you're computed along everything else... you can't escape it, as from
> the pov of what is computing, you don't do something unpredicted, because
> that would mean you're doing something the algorithm has not computed...
> but it's a plain contradiction with the premises which is you're computed
> by it.
>

Yes, if you are a native of the simulation what you say follows. But you
can imagine convoluted scenarios like the one above, more useful for sci-fi
than real science.

Telmo.


>
> Quentin
>
>
>> Of course this would have to be a scenario where our perception channels
>> are hijacked but our cognition is performed in the real world. If Our
>> cognition is part of the simulation, it can just take more
>> outside-the-simulation time to compute the next simulation moment and the
>> inhabitants of the simulation won't notice.
>>
>>
>>> It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical
>>> mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the Big
>>> Bang.
>>
>>
>> My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's the
>> common ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far enough in time
>> your are bound to observe it. My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of
>> the big bang is shared by all universes and belongs to all histories.
>>
>>
>>> here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge is
>>> not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and
>>> then use this against despair.
>>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>
>>> Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by
>>> hypercomputing. This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to
>>> achieve this goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to
>>> decide when we are pleased with the result.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>>> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
>>> Subject: Re: Mandela effect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never heard of it before.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and
>>> with what Bruno said).
>>>
>>> It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas
>>> though:
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect
>>>
>>> I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at
>>> a bar, started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with
>>> the sort of ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular
>>> before in smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation.
>>> Our hypothesis was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a
>>> random path, we would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep
>>> up". It didn't work, but these days we could have started an Internet
>>> movement.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Telmo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received th

Re: Mandela effect?

2015-10-04 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2015-10-04 15:26 GMT+02:00 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>:

>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> As the simulation runs at the speed of light, we'd have to drive very
>> fast and randomly, indeed.
>
>
> Ok, but suppose that the simulation has limited resources and only
> computes some sphere around the current part of the universe you're
> observing. Then it might do some predictive analysis to pre-compute likely
> future states. Driving randomly would be an attempt to fuck with that
> algorithm.
>

That presupose you're not part yourself of the algorithm... so where is
your consciousness computed ? If you're computed along everything else...
you can't escape it, as from the pov of what is computing, you don't do
something unpredicted, because that would mean you're doing something the
algorithm has not computed... but it's a plain contradiction with the
premises which is you're computed by it.

Quentin


> Of course this would have to be a scenario where our perception channels
> are hijacked but our cognition is performed in the real world. If Our
> cognition is part of the simulation, it can just take more
> outside-the-simulation time to compute the next simulation moment and the
> inhabitants of the simulation won't notice.
>
>
>> It is a simulation, or rather, a computation, such as a statistical
>> mechanics analysis. The boot up and power on and self test, was the Big
>> Bang.
>
>
> My view is that the big bang is the simplest possible state, so it's the
> common ancestor of all possible states, so if you look far enough in time
> your are bound to observe it. My crazy hypothesis is that the instant of
> the big bang is shared by all universes and belongs to all histories.
>
>
>> here's another completely, off the wall, point of view. The challenge is
>> not merely, to discover what is true, but to discover what is true, and
>> then use this against despair.
>
>
> I agree.
>
>
>> Consider this a super-goal, perhaps one that is best resolved by
>> hypercomputing. This utilizes both the cerebrum and the amygdala, to
>> achieve this goal. We use the cerebrum to discover, we use the amygdala to
>> decide when we are pleased with the result.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2015 6:28 am
>> Subject: Re: Mandela effect?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never heard of it before.
>>>
>>> http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/
>>>
>>
>>
>> I have heard about it, and found it silly (I agree with the link and with
>> what Bruno said).
>>
>> It is fun to see how the Internet enables kids to explore weird ideas
>> though:
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/mandelaeffect
>>
>> I remember when me and a friend, after failing to impress some girls at a
>> bar, started philosophizing about the nature of reality. We came up with
>> the sort of ideas that later became popular in the Matrix (and were popular
>> before in smaller circles, of course), and decided to test the simulation.
>> Our hypothesis was that, if we started driving fast and always choosing a
>> random path, we would eventually break the simulation's ability to "keep
>> up". It didn't work, but these days we could have started an Internet
>> movement.
>>
>> Best,
>> Telmo.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Brent
>>>
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>>
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Re: Mandela effect?

2015-09-24 Thread Bruno Marchal


On 23 Sep 2015, at 21:05, Brent Meeker wrote:


Never heard of it before.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/



I agree with the conclusion of the paper. Also, if that "mandela-many- 
world" theory was correct, it would mean that parallel universes can  
interact, and that QM is non linear (and the SWE only an  
approximation), and that would mean that basically all basic physical  
principles are false (GR and thermodynamic are refutable in such a  
theory, as shown by Plaga and Weinberg).


Bruno




Brent

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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Mandela effect?

2015-09-23 Thread Brent Meeker

Never heard of it before.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/

Brent

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