Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Craig Weinberg 


On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:29:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>
> Hi Craig Weinberg   
>
> The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God 
> and our neighbor. 
>

That's like thinking that if a person does drugs with you they can't be a 
cop. Either the devil has free will, in which case I would think him very 
likely to throw in just such messages to deceive us, or he has no free will 
in which case he is purely the agent of God, and God is the deceiver 
pretending not to also be the devil.

Most people who have psychotic episodes that end in some horrific act like 
drowning their children are acting on the insistence of what claims to be 
God. If the devil wrote a book that said 'Ahh I'm the devil, read this book 
and hate God and you will be rewarded' do you think that it would be very 
effective? Who is better to corrupt, some degenerate in prison or a priest 
who is trusted to be alone with children?
 

>
> My own take on Jesus' death is that the devil attacks everything 
> he hates: beauty, goodness, youth, ... . These will either go to 
> heaven or hell. God's justice, being all-pervasive, 
> has to be to make up in the next world the sorrows of this one. 
>

It's all so silly. Wouldn't the devil get tired of hating the things that 
by definition are lovely? How does God get off the hook for creating this 
monster? It's beyond absurd. It's fine as a metaphor, because yes, there 
are these phenomenological appetites and counter-appetities which we are 
obliged to participate in, and which have supra-personal significance, but 
really all of these interpretations are cartoons loosely based on parts of 
the Bible, which in itself is a huge mess of disputed versions and 
questionable translations. It's like a 'Best Of' album for Bronze Age 
philosophy and folk history.

 

>
> Now the Bible says that whoever is least on earth will be the 
> highest in Heaven. So Jesus had to die the most horrible 
> ignominious death,


I don't even get that part. Millions of people die more horrible and 
ignominious deaths than Jesus. Jesus died the most celebrated and historic 
death in all of history (if he even existed historically). He died in 
physical pain, sure, so what? He died with the certainty that he is 
immortal and the Son of God. He died being able to forgive his torturers. 
That is a beautiful death compared to being torn apart after decades in 
some rape dungeon somewhere. Wasting away for years with chronic 
suffering... What is objectively so special about being unjustly crucified? 
What way could he have died that would have been more heroic? Peacefully in 
his sleep at the age of 20,000?

I'm only continuing with this because you seem up for it. I don't want to 
offend anyone, I'm just expressing why it doesn't make any sense to me.
 

> that even being the death of God's only 
> son, in order to be highest in heaven. This happened with 
> his resurrection. 
>

It's a nice story that appeals to our moral logic of justice, but there is 
really no difference between that and a hundred other mythologies. That's 
how myths work - something had to happen because it appeals to the sense of 
balance and reciprocation. All of the world's mythology is like one big 
cautionary tale of quid pro quo.

Craig
 

>
>
>
>
>
> Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net  
> 9/20/2012   
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
>
>
> - Receiving the following content -   
> From: Craig Weinberg   
> Receiver: everything-list   
> Time: 2012-09-19, 17:11:45 
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
> Hi Richard Ruquist 
>
> Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven,   
> only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that. 
>
>
> What kind of a sacrifice is that? "I'm going to do you the biggest favor 
> you can imagine, but if you don't believe in it, then my favor is worthless 
> and makes anything good that you have ever done in your life a complete 
> waste of time". 
>
> If I were Satan, I would write the Bible exactly as it is, full of 
> horrific promises and threats that can be interpreted in many ways. It's 
> pretty much like dropping candy colored hand grenades onto a school 
> playground. The grenades would say "if anyone tries to take this away from 
> you, then they deserve whatever happens to them". 
>
> Craig 
>
> --   
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group. 
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
&

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi Craig Weinberg  

The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God
and our neighbor.

My own take on Jesus' death is that the devil attacks everything
he hates: beauty, goodness, youth, ... . These will either go to
heaven or hell. God's justice, being all-pervasive,
has to be to make up in the next world the sorrows of this one.

Now the Bible says that whoever is least on earth will be the
highest in Heaven. So Jesus had to die the most horrible 
ignominious death, that even being the death of God's only 
son, in order to be highest in heaven. This happened with
his resurrection.





Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/20/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


- Receiving the following content -  
From: Craig Weinberg  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-19, 17:11:45 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 




On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
Hi Richard Ruquist

Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven,  
only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.


What kind of a sacrifice is that? "I'm going to do you the biggest favor you 
can imagine, but if you don't believe in it, then my favor is worthless and 
makes anything good that you have ever done in your life a complete waste of 
time". 

If I were Satan, I would write the Bible exactly as it is, full of horrific 
promises and threats that can be interpreted in many ways. It's pretty much 
like dropping candy colored hand grenades onto a school playground. The 
grenades would say "if anyone tries to take this away from you, then they 
deserve whatever happens to them". 

Craig 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Craig Weinberg 


On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>
> Hi Richard Ruquist   
>
> Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, 
> only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.   
> 
>

What kind of a sacrifice is that? "I'm going to do you the biggest favor 
you can imagine, but if you don't believe in it, then my favor is worthless 
and makes anything good that you have ever done in your life a complete 
waste of time".

If I were Satan, I would write the Bible exactly as it is, full of horrific 
promises and threats that can be interpreted in many ways. It's pretty much 
like dropping candy colored hand grenades onto a school playground. The 
grenades would say "if anyone tries to take this away from you, then they 
deserve whatever happens to them".

Craig

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread John Clark 
On Wed, Sep 19,  Roger Clough  wrote:

> OK, genius. So, following impeccable logic, you believe you are John
> Clark because from infancy people kept ramming down your thoat that you are
> John Clark.
>

Yes. People told me that my name was "John Clark" and like all young
children I believed them, and over the years I have found no evidence that
was untrue; adults don't always lie to children, just often. I was also
told that God exists but in this case I have found evidence that was false.

  John K Clark

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi John Clark  

OK, genius. So, following impeccable logic, you believe you are 
John Clark because from infancy people kept ramming down your thoat 
that you are John Clark.   


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/19/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


- Receiving the following content -  
From: John Clark  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-18, 12:55:58 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 


On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 


> Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in 
> Christ's sacrifice for us will do that. 


And you know that because you were told it over and over again from the very 
moment you learned language, and everything that adults tell young children is 
always 100% true.  

? John K Clark 

?  


? 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 Roger Clough  wrote:

> there is no indisputable reason to believe in God.
>

Yes.


> > Faith or trust is required


In other words stupidity is required.

> and that's exactly what God wants
>

God wants? GOD WANTS??!! The guy's omnipotent, God doesn't want, God has.

  John K Clark

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread John Clark 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:

> Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in
> Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.
>

And you know that because you were told it over and over again from the
very moment you learned language, and everything that adults tell young
children is always 100% true.

  John K Clark

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi John Clark  

Agreed, there is no indisputable reason to believe in God.
Faith or trust is required, and that's exactly what God
wants you to do. 


 
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/18/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


- Receiving the following content -  
From: John Clark  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-17, 13:40:03 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 


On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 



>God loved the believers and hated the nonbelievers, at least that's what the 
>Bible tells us. 


Yes that's what the Bible says, it says that a omnipotent omniscient being is 
pretending that 
He does not exist and He hates anyone that He has been successful at fooling 
and will torture 
that person as much as He can for a infinite number of years. But he loves you. 
 

It's easy to see why a human would push that load of crap because it gives 
influence over others,
and its easy to see why they want it taught to the very young, at that age 
anything said by a 
authority figure bypasses the critical thinking areas of the brain and directly 
becomes a axiom, 
which he will eventually pass on to his children someday; trying to peddle that 
horseshit to a 
adult for the first time would never fly. The brain just works differently when 
we're very young, its much easier to learn a language and we believe everything 
we're told. Most adults don't believe in Santa Claus even though they once did 
because they were told by their parents when they were still quite young that 
he didn't exist, if they waited until they were 17 to be informed it would be 
too late and they wouldn't have believed them because " Santa Claus exists" 
would have already have become fixed as a axiom that cannot be questioned. And 
we'd be living in a world were most adults believed in Santa Claus and were 
dreaming up all sorts of ingenious excuses why we can never manage to detect 
him or his workshop at the north pole. 

What I don't understand, because it seems so out of character, is if God does 
exist why 
He would place belief, in particular the belief in something when there is 
absolutely 
no reason for doing so, as the ultimate virtue.?  

? John K Clark  






? 


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi Richard Ruquist 

An excellent point us, because Jesus never condemned homosexuality.
He never said anything about it.

And as you say, it's not mentioned in the 10.  And the 10 as far as I know
were all that Jesus preserved. 

So Christianity doesn't have a case against homosexuality
that I can think of.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/18/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end."
Woody Allan

- Receiving the following content - 
From: Richard Ruquist 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-17, 11:02:01
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.


Roger, So you must think that the jewish law condemning homosexual behavior
was eliminated by Jesus. It's not in the 10 and certainly Christians
are making a big fuss over it.
Richard

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:
> Hi Richard Ruquist
>
> I was irritated because I have already answered this question.
> Jesus did away with the laws of the jews, which to my mind were
> the laws of man, not God. The Laws of God are the 10 commandments.
> They held and still do, just as God declared them.
>
> To give you a for instgance, jesus said that
> it is not what goes into a man's mouth that
> makes him unclean, it is whjat comes out of it.
>
> What does fulfillment of the law mean ?
> It means that Jesus died for breakers of those laws
> including you and me. So in that sense if you
> break the laws, his Gospel will save you.
> The Gospel is the fulfillment of the laws.
>
> You only need to accept that fact for it to be
> saved.
>
>
>
> o invent him
> so that everything could function."
> - Receiving the following content -
> From: Richard Ruquist
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-09-17, 07:01:49
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>
>
> I was waiting for your reply.
> Alas, Jesus was a Jew
> and Jews have 613 commandments,
> not just 10.
> Insults do not help your argument.
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>
>> Another drive-by shooting. Just an unsupported denial
>> and you speed off. How can you be taken seriously ?
>>
>>
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 9/17/2012
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
>> so that everything could function."
>>
>> - Receiving the following content -
>> From: Richard Ruquist
>> Receiver: everything-list
>> Time: 2012-09-15, 12:03:08
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>>
>> Nonesense
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>>
>>> He was talking about the 10 commandments.
>>> He fulfilled them with his death and res.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesus did away for example with the dietary laws when
>>> he said that it is not what a man puts into his mouth
>>> that can make him unclean, it is what comes out of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>>> 9/15/2012
>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
>>> so that everything could function."
>>>
>>> - Receiving the following content -
>>> From: Richard Ruquist
>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>> Time: 2012-09-15, 08:08:22
>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>>>
>>> Jesus did not do away with any OT laws.
>>> He said so explicitly in the Sermon on the Mount.
>>>
>>> Matthew 5:
>>> [17] "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets;
>>> I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
>>> [18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an
>>> iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
>>> [19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and
>>> teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he
>>> who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of
>>> heaven."
>>>
>>> Roger, are you one of the least?
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>> Hi John Clark
>>>>
>>>> 1)Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible
>>>> days).
>>>> Russell also hadn't a clue (he admitted) as to the meaning of pragmatism.
>>>> On the other hand, Prove

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi Richard Ruquist  

Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, 
only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.  


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/18/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." 
Woody Allan 

- Receiving the following content -  
From: Richard Ruquist  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-17, 13:53:40 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 


Jesus said that he likes people to be hot or cold, atheists and 
theists that keep all the commandments, even ones he added like 
praying in a closet. 

The other people are the least in heaven, which BTW implies that we 
all make to heaven. He especially dislikes those who change or 
reinterprete his words. 

Richard, who practices atheistic Buddhism and atheistic Hinduism 
(Samkhya). Even when I was a jew I could not keep all 613 
commandments. Safer to be an atheist. 

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:40 PM, John Clark  wrote: 
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 
> 
>> >God loved the believers and hated the nonbelievers, at least that's what 
>> > the Bible tells us. 
> 
> 
> Yes that's what the Bible says, it says that a omnipotent omniscient being 
> is pretending that He does not exist and He hates anyone that He has been 
> successful at fooling and will torture that person as much as He can for a 
> infinite number of years. But he loves you. 
> 
> It's easy to see why a human would push that load of crap because it gives 
> influence over others, and its easy to see why they want it taught to the 
> very young, at that age anything said by a authority figure bypasses the 
> critical thinking areas of the brain and directly becomes a axiom, which he 
> will eventually pass on to his children someday; trying to peddle that 
> horseshit to a adult for the first time would never fly. The brain just 
> works differently when we're very young, its much easier to learn a language 
> and we believe everything we're told. Most adults don't believe in Santa 
> Claus even though they once did because they were told by their parents when 
> they were still quite young that he didn't exist, if they waited until they 
> were 17 to be informed it would be too late and they wouldn't have believed 
> them because " Santa Claus exists" would have already have become fixed as a 
> axiom that cannot be questioned. And we'd be living in a world were most 
> adults believed in Santa Claus and were dreaming up all sorts of ingenious 
> excuses why we can never manage to detect him or his workshop at the north 
> pole. 
> 
> What I don't understand, because it seems so out of character, is if God 
> does exist why He would place belief, in particular the belief in something 
> when there is absolutely no reason for doing so, as the ultimate virtue. 
> 
> John K Clark 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> "Everything List" group. 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Richard Ruquist 
Roger, So you must think that the jewish law condemning homosexual behavior
was eliminated by Jesus. It's not in the 10 and certainly Christians
are making a big fuss over it.
Richard

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:
> Hi Richard Ruquist
>
> I was irritated because I have already answered this question.
> Jesus did away with the laws of the jews, which to my mind were
> the laws of man, not God. The Laws of God are the 10 commandments.
> They held and still do, just as God declared them.
>
> To give you a for instgance, jesus said that
> it is not what goes into a man's mouth that
> makes him unclean, it is whjat comes out of it.
>
> What does fulfillment of the law mean ?
> It means that Jesus died for breakers of those laws
> including you and me. So in that sense if you
> break the laws, his Gospel will save you.
> The Gospel is the fulfillment of the laws.
>
> You only need to accept that fact for it to be
> saved.
>
>
>
> o invent him
> so that everything could function."
> - Receiving the following content -
> From: Richard Ruquist
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-09-17, 07:01:49
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>
>
> I was waiting for your reply.
> Alas, Jesus was a Jew
> and Jews have 613 commandments,
> not just 10.
> Insults do not help your argument.
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:
>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>
>> Another drive-by shooting. Just an unsupported denial
>> and you speed off. How can you be taken seriously ?
>>
>>
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 9/17/2012
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
>> so that everything could function."
>>
>> - Receiving the following content -
>> From: Richard Ruquist
>> Receiver: everything-list
>> Time: 2012-09-15, 12:03:08
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>>
>> Nonesense
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:
>>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>>
>>> He was talking about the 10 commandments.
>>> He fulfilled them with his death and res.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesus did away for example with the dietary laws when
>>> he said that it is not what a man puts into his mouth
>>> that can make him unclean, it is what comes out of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>>> 9/15/2012
>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
>>> so that everything could function."
>>>
>>> - Receiving the following content -
>>> From: Richard Ruquist
>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>> Time: 2012-09-15, 08:08:22
>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.
>>>
>>> Jesus did not do away with any OT laws.
>>> He said so explicitly in the Sermon on the Mount.
>>>
>>> Matthew 5:
>>> [17] "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets;
>>> I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
>>> [18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an
>>> iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
>>> [19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and
>>> teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he
>>> who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of
>>> heaven."
>>>
>>> Roger, are you one of the least?
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough  wrote:
 Hi John Clark

 1)Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible
 days).
 Russell also hadn't a clue (he admitted) as to the meaning of pragmatism.
 On the other hand, Proverbs says, "Fear of God is beginning of
 wisdom (or knowledge)."

 2) To understand the Bible you have to read it as a little child,
 not a shark.

 3) Those slaughter statements are mostly based on the old jewish
 laws in leviticus and numbers. Jesus did away with them.
 But God did order a few massacres. The forgiveness of Jesus
 also did away with the need for them.

 The Old Testament is the problem.
 The New Testament is the solution.

 Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
 9/15/2012
 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
 so that everything could function."
 - Receiving the following content -
 From: John Clark
 Receiver: everything-list
 Time: 2012-09-14, 15:32:46
 Subject: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.


 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:


> You're a slow learner.

 Maybe, but I'm smarter than the people in the Bible. As Bertrand Russell
 said "So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
 praise of intelligence."


> Bible stories are generally based on true happenings.


 Do you believe that the stories in Mother Goose are generally based on
 true happenings too? I know there are no reasons to believe either one
 but
 faith don't need no e

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Roger Clough 
Hi Richard Ruquist  

I was irritated because I have already answered this question. 
Jesus did away with the laws of the jews, which to my mind were 
the laws of man, not God. The Laws of God are the 10 commandments.
They held and still do, just as God declared them.

To give you a for instgance, jesus said that
it is not what goes into a man's mouth that
makes him unclean, it is whjat comes out of it.

What does fulfillment of the law mean ? 
It means that Jesus died for breakers of those laws
including you and me. So in that sense if you
break the laws, his Gospel will save you.
The Gospel is the fulfillment of the laws.

You only need to accept that fact for it to be
saved.



o invent him  
so that everything could function." 
- Receiving the following content -  
From: Richard Ruquist  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-17, 07:01:49 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 


I was waiting for your reply. 
Alas, Jesus was a Jew 
and Jews have 613 commandments, 
not just 10. 
Insults do not help your argument. 

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 
> Hi Richard Ruquist 
> 
> Another drive-by shooting. Just an unsupported denial 
> and you speed off. How can you be taken seriously ? 
> 
> 
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
> 9/17/2012 
> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
> so that everything could function." 
> 
> - Receiving the following content - 
> From: Richard Ruquist 
> Receiver: everything-list 
> Time: 2012-09-15, 12:03:08 
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 
> 
> Nonesense 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 
>> Hi Richard Ruquist 
>> 
>> He was talking about the 10 commandments. 
>> He fulfilled them with his death and res. 
>> 
>> 
>> Jesus did away for example with the dietary laws when 
>> he said that it is not what a man puts into his mouth 
>> that can make him unclean, it is what comes out of it. 
>> 
>> 
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
>> 9/15/2012 
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>> so that everything could function." 
>> 
>> - Receiving the following content - 
>> From: Richard Ruquist 
>> Receiver: everything-list 
>> Time: 2012-09-15, 08:08:22 
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 
>> 
>> Jesus did not do away with any OT laws. 
>> He said so explicitly in the Sermon on the Mount. 
>> 
>> Matthew 5: 
>> [17] "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; 
>> I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 
>> [18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an 
>> iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 
>> [19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and 
>> teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he 
>> who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of 
>> heaven." 
>> 
>> Roger, are you one of the least? 
>> Richard 
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 
>>> Hi John Clark 
>>> 
>>> 1)Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible 
>>> days). 
>>> Russell also hadn't a clue (he admitted) as to the meaning of pragmatism. 
>>> On the other hand, Proverbs says, "Fear of God is beginning of 
>>> wisdom (or knowledge)." 
>>> 
>>> 2) To understand the Bible you have to read it as a little child, 
>>> not a shark. 
>>> 
>>> 3) Those slaughter statements are mostly based on the old jewish 
>>> laws in leviticus and numbers. Jesus did away with them. 
>>> But God did order a few massacres. The forgiveness of Jesus 
>>> also did away with the need for them. 
>>> 
>>> The Old Testament is the problem. 
>>> The New Testament is the solution. 
>>> 
>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
>>> 9/15/2012 
>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>>> so that everything could function." 
>>> - Receiving the following content - 
>>> From: John Clark 
>>> Receiver: everything-list 
>>> Time: 2012-09-14, 15:32:46 
>>> Subject: Re: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
>>> 
>>> 
 You're a slow learner. 
>>> 
>>> Maybe, but I'm smarter than the people in the Bible. As Bertrand Russell 
>>> said "So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in 
>>> praise of intelligence." 
>>> 
>>> 
 Bible stories are generally based on true happenings. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Do you believe that the stories in Mother Goose are generally based on 
>>> true happenings too? I know there are no reasons to believe either one 
>>> but 
>>> faith don't need no education, or reasons. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Science deals with facts, religion deals with values. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Values? One of the best ways to become a atheist is to actually read the 
>>> Bible, so let's go directly to the source and read some quotations from 
>>> the 
>>> Bible an