Re: Universe from Pixels? (The Jury is still out, apparently)
An article in the 4/1/14 issue of New Scientist indicates that photons from the most energetic GRB to date (GRB130427A, seen on 27/4/13) have a lag of 100s of seconds between the low and high energy rays. This is at a redshift of 0.34 or 4.68GLyr, so plenty of scope for interacting with any quantum foam that may be floating around. The relevant article is here ... http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.2626v2 On 30 October 2013 05:12, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: If true – ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular – at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Universe from Pixels?
On 30 Oct 2013, at 08:32, Chris de Morsella wrote: Bruno ~ I believe Quantum loop gravity depends on a fine grain structure existing in spacetime. Yes. I agree. I find this natural with GR and QM, but comp imposes some continuum, and if it is given by space, that would simplify the recovering of physics from arithmetic. (cf UDA-7). These results would seem to falsify it therefore. Spacetime on the very small scale appears to be smoothly continuous. I would like to see these results reconfirmed though; Me too. not casting doubt on the experimental methodology or the ESA science team. Quite the opposite I think it is an elegant and powerful leveraging down into being able to make inferences about scales I believed would be almost forever out of our reach. Kind of makes one speculate – and I do that easily LOL – if any similar type experiments could be devised to measure properties of high energy photons that have traversed enormous distances of spacetime in order to perhaps determine if those vibrating strings and things are more than beautiful math. What amazes me is how they were able to use the lever of the vast distances traversed by these high energy photons and very accurately measure properties of these photons and be able to use the vast distance itself like a kind of lever to be able to infer this about a scale that is so far beyond anything that we can directly measure or discern that it might as well have been in some elfin land of middle earth. I agree. I am far from being an experimentalist, and cannot judge the accuracy of such incredible experiments, so I wait for more data and more confirmations to have a sort of local opinion on this. Bruno -Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Universe from Pixels? On 29 Oct 2013, at 17:12, Chris de Morsella wrote: If true – ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular – at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. Do you know if those are the results considered as refuting loop gravity? In fact, I find intuitive that a quantized gravitation lead to a quantization of space-time curvature, and itself, but comp seems to fit better with continuous space time, as it multitplies the comp- histories in a very smooth way. In the universal dovetailing, the winner universal subdovetailers on the programs defined on some rich ring structure, might be the winner, but of course that remains to be shown. Those questions are very hard. Bruno From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http
Re: Universe from Pixels?
Actually the ESA observations confirmed the prior Fermi Telescope observations that spacetime is smooth at and beyond the Planck scale On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Oct 2013, at 08:32, Chris de Morsella wrote: Bruno ~ I believe Quantum loop gravity depends on a fine grain structure existing in spacetime. Yes. I agree. I find this natural with GR and QM, but comp imposes some continuum, and if it is given by space, that would simplify the recovering of physics from arithmetic. (cf UDA-7). These results would seem to falsify it therefore. Spacetime on the very small scale appears to be smoothly continuous. I would like to see these results reconfirmed though; Me too. not casting doubt on the experimental methodology or the ESA science team. Quite the opposite I think it is an elegant and powerful leveraging down into being able to make inferences about scales I believed would be almost forever out of our reach. Kind of makes one speculate – and I do that easily LOL – if any similar type experiments could be devised to measure properties of high energy photons that have traversed enormous distances of spacetime in order to perhaps determine if those vibrating strings and things are more than beautiful math. What amazes me is how they were able to use the lever of the vast distances traversed by these high energy photons and very accurately measure properties of these photons and be able to use the vast distance itself like a kind of lever to be able to infer this about a scale that is so far beyond anything that we can directly measure or discern that it might as well have been in some elfin land of middle earth. I agree. I am far from being an experimentalist, and cannot judge the accuracy of such incredible experiments, so I wait for more data and more confirmations to have a sort of local opinion on this. Bruno -Chris ** ** *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [ mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com everything-list@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Bruno Marchal *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:43 AM *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: Universe from Pixels? ** ** ** ** On 29 Oct 2013, at 17:12, Chris de Morsella wrote: If true – ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular – at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. ** ** Do you know if those are the results considered as refuting loop gravity? ** ** In fact, I find intuitive that a quantized gravitation lead to a quantization of space-time curvature, and itself, but comp seems to fit better with continuous space time, as it multitplies the comp-histories in a very smooth way. In the universal dovetailing, the winner universal subdovetailers on the programs defined on some rich ring structure, might be the winner, but of course that remains to be shown. ** ** Those questions are very hard. ** ** Bruno ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [ mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com everything-list@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *spudboy...@aol.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ** ** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
Re: Universe from Pixels?
Surely this is a very significant result, the equivalent of the Michelson Morley for (relatively large scale) quantisation of space-time? I believe this kills LQG, but what about CDT, spin foams, and (of course) M theory? Does this kill the idea of compactification, or are those Calabi-Yau manifolds either too small, or do they not have an influence on high energy photons? If this prevents relativity/quantum unification at the Planck scale, this surely makes the split between them even more baffling! (Maybe it's a bug in the Matrix software? :) All this and the Higgs. Suddenly physics has become exciting again! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: Universe from Pixels?
Bruno ~ I believe Quantum loop gravity depends on a fine grain structure existing in spacetime. These results would seem to falsify it therefore. Spacetime on the very small scale appears to be smoothly continuous. I would like to see these results reconfirmed though; not casting doubt on the experimental methodology or the ESA science team. Quite the opposite I think it is an elegant and powerful leveraging down into being able to make inferences about scales I believed would be almost forever out of our reach. Kind of makes one speculate - and I do that easily LOL - if any similar type experiments could be devised to measure properties of high energy photons that have traversed enormous distances of spacetime in order to perhaps determine if those vibrating strings and things are more than beautiful math. What amazes me is how they were able to use the lever of the vast distances traversed by these high energy photons and very accurately measure properties of these photons and be able to use the vast distance itself like a kind of lever to be able to infer this about a scale that is so far beyond anything that we can directly measure or discern that it might as well have been in some elfin land of middle earth. -Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Universe from Pixels? On 29 Oct 2013, at 17:12, Chris de Morsella wrote: If true - ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular - at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. Do you know if those are the results considered as refuting loop gravity? In fact, I find intuitive that a quantized gravitation lead to a quantization of space-time curvature, and itself, but comp seems to fit better with continuous space time, as it multitplies the comp-histories in a very smooth way. In the universal dovetailing, the winner universal subdovetailers on the programs defined on some rich ring structure, might be the winner, but of course that remains to be shown. Those questions are very hard. Bruno From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indi visible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https
Re: Universe from Pixels?
I wonder if we used a photon multiplier that looked like Mickey Mouse and then discovered that photons looked like Mickey Mouse if it would occur to anyone that some of our assumptions might have been premature. On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:03:39 AM UTC-4, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: Universe from Pixels?
If true - ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular - at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indi visible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Universe from Pixels?
It is true that when big bang conditions are established in the three highest energy accelerators (including the LHC), what is observed is a quark-gluon plasma which is described as a perfect fluid or BEC (Bose-Einstein Condensate). But other astronomical observations have determined that space or spacetime is smooth to 10^-5 Planck lengths in Fermi telescope experimants, or as previously discussed on this list, 10^-13 Planck lengths. Therefore the idea that space contains pixels as in Loop Quantum Gravity has been falsified experimentally. Perhaps the fact that all particles in the quark-gluon plasma are entangled keeps the resulting spacetime smooth, unlike water cooling into ice. Richard On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: I wonder if we used a photon multiplier that looked like Mickey Mouse and then discovered that photons looked like Mickey Mouse if it would occur to anyone that some of our assumptions might have been premature. On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:03:39 AM UTC-4, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_**weblog/2013/10/our-universe-** is-made-up-of-indivisible-**building-blocks-like-tiny-**atoms.html#morehttp://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Universe from Pixels?
On 29 Oct 2013, at 17:12, Chris de Morsella wrote: If true – ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular – at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. Do you know if those are the results considered as refuting loop gravity? In fact, I find intuitive that a quantized gravitation lead to a quantization of space-time curvature, and itself, but comp seems to fit better with continuous space time, as it multitplies the comp- histories in a very smooth way. In the universal dovetailing, the winner universal subdovetailers on the programs defined on some rich ring structure, might be the winner, but of course that remains to be shown. Those questions are very hard. Bruno From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Universe from Pixels?
On 10/29/2013 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Oct 2013, at 17:12, Chris de Morsella wrote: If true – ESA experimental measurements of the polarization of ranges of gamma rays (over a range of energies) from very distant gamma ray bursts that have travelled across billions of light years of spacetime to reach earth. Their experiments determined that spacetime does not have a granular structure, which would have had a measurable effect on the polarization of these distant gamma rays, down to a level of 10^-48 m (which is exceedingly small)) trillions of times smaller than the Planck scale. Spacetime does not appear to be granular – at least down to these incredibly small scales. These results have lead me to question any hypothesis that seems to depend on spacetime having a discreet granular structure. Do you know if those are the results considered as refuting loop gravity? I think so. The paper's at arXiv:1109.5191v2. I don't recognize the 1e-48m. The paper places a limit on the granularity of 525 Planck masses, which is inversely proportional to length, so it's shorter than 1/525 Planck lengths. Brent In fact, I find intuitive that a quantized gravitation lead to a quantization of space-time curvature, and itself, but comp seems to fit better with continuous space time, as it multitplies the comp-histories in a very smooth way. In the universal dovetailing, the winner universal subdovetailers on the programs defined on some rich ring structure, might be the winner, but of course that remains to be shown. Those questions are very hard. Bruno *From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com]*On Behalf Of*spudboy...@aol.com mailto:spudboy...@aol.com *Sent:*Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:04 AM *To:*everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:*Universe from Pixels? Here is a link, which makes things seem very, curious, if true. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/10/our-universe-is-made-up-of-indivisible-building-blocks-like-tiny-atoms.html#more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email toeverything-l...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email toeverything-l...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6772 - Release Date: 10/22/13 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
