Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-22 Thread Cameron
Just for $hits and giggles, I took the original file (8mbs - which unzipped
to 54mbs) and saved it as Excel 2003 compatible16mbs..



On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Don Andrews don.andr...@safeway.comwrote:

 Many anti-spam systems have a limit on the size of files they scan -
 including those in archives.  Don't know if this is AS or AV but if AS,
 quarantining or rejecting would seem to be an overreaction IMHO.

 -Original Message-
 From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:21 AM
 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
  Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

 That's about as friendly as generic message size limits that nearly
 everyone seems to interpret as file size limits.
 (MIME overhead and all being what it is)

 Actually, this seems more egregious from a seat of the pants standpoint.
 What is the actual description Vipre uses for this size limit feature?
 Surely they should mean message size like everyone else and if they
 really do mean file size then it should be the native file size.  The
 fact that the new formats happen to internally use zip compression should
 matter.  What happens to a rar or 7z file that is renamed with a .txt
 extension?

 You are not supposed to know about renaming .docx to .zip after all.
 Well, for the purposes of this discussion anyway...

 ~JasonG

 P.S. Java .jar and .war files are the same in this regard.

  -Original Message-
  From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:40
  To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
  Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email
 
  Good morning all!
 
  More an informational post than anything.
 
  Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
  .docx, etc) were compressed files?
 
  Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit
 was
  set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
  So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
  determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.
 
  Who'd a thunk it.
 
 
  Cheers,
  Cameron
 
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  software.com/read/my_forums/
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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-22 Thread Don Andrews
Yep, that's our recommendation for users encountering difficulties sending them 
as attachments - save in 2k3 format and try again.


From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 6:20 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

Just for $hits and giggles, I took the original file (8mbs - which unzipped to 
54mbs) and saved it as Excel 2003 compatible16mbs..



On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Don Andrews 
don.andr...@safeway.commailto:don.andr...@safeway.com wrote:
Many anti-spam systems have a limit on the size of files they scan - including 
those in archives.  Don't know if this is AS or AV but if AS, quarantining or 
rejecting would seem to be an overreaction IMHO.

-Original Message-
From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.commailto:jasongu...@npumail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:21 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

That's about as friendly as generic message size limits that nearly
everyone seems to interpret as file size limits.
(MIME overhead and all being what it is)

Actually, this seems more egregious from a seat of the pants standpoint.
What is the actual description Vipre uses for this size limit feature?
Surely they should mean message size like everyone else and if they
really do mean file size then it should be the native file size.  The
fact that the new formats happen to internally use zip compression should
matter.  What happens to a rar or 7z file that is renamed with a .txt
extension?

You are not supposed to know about renaming .docx to .zip after all.
Well, for the purposes of this discussion anyway...

~JasonG

P.S. Java .jar and .war files are the same in this regard.

 -Original Message-
 From: Cameron 
 [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.commailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:40
 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
 Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

 Good morning all!

 More an informational post than anything.

 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?

 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit
was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

 Who'd a thunk it.


 Cheers,
 Cameron

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-21 Thread Ben Scott
  To paraphrase jwz: Some people, when confronted with a problem,
think, 'I know, I'll use XML!'  Now they have several problems.

  (I admit XML has its uses (and word processing documents may
actually be one of them), but damn does it get over-used.)

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Michael B. Smith mich...@smithcons.com wrote:
 Worse than that:

 post
 font family=unspecified size=default
 salutationwordHi/wordpunctuation,/punctuation/salutationbr /
 bodyparagraphsentencewordWhat/wordwordmakes/wordwordyou/wordwordsay/wordwordthat/wordpunctuation?/punctuation/sentence/paragraphbr
  //body
 signatureleader-- /leaderbr /nameBen/namebr //signature
 /font
  /post

 Ben Scott wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Michael B. Smith mich...@smithcons.com 
 wrote:
 XML is darned wordy.

 post
 salutationwordHi/word,/salutation
 bodyparagraphsentencewordWhat/wordwordmakes/wordwordyou/wordwordsay/wordwordthat?/word/sentence/paragraph/body
 signatureleader-- /leadernameBen/name /post

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-21 Thread Jeff Steward
Kinda funny that this came up yesterday and today as I'm working on parsing
XML data from a public database.  My choices are using a poorly formated
text dump or an XML dump.  The XML dump is 7 times the size of the text
output.  If they had bothered to add delimiters to the text dump I would be
done by now, instead I'm dealing with learning more than I care too about
complex XML schemas and how to work with xml data in SQL 2005 ;-)

On the plus side I enjoy learning new things.  The downside is that MSDN
articles almost always:

a) give examples that have nothing to do with what you are working on
b) leave out some critical piece of information in any example that does
pertain to what you are working on

-Jeff Steward

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Ben Scott mailvor...@gmail.com wrote:

  To paraphrase jwz: Some people, when confronted with a problem,
 think, 'I know, I'll use XML!'  Now they have several problems.

  (I admit XML has its uses (and word processing documents may
 actually be one of them), but damn does it get over-used.)

 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Michael B. Smith mich...@smithcons.com
 wrote:
  Worse than that:
 
  post
  font family=unspecified size=default
  salutationwordHi/wordpunctuation,/punctuation/salutationbr
 /
 
 bodyparagraphsentencewordWhat/wordwordmakes/wordwordyou/wordwordsay/wordwordthat/wordpunctuation?/punctuation/sentence/paragraphbr
 //body
  signatureleader-- /leaderbr /nameBen/namebr //signature
  /font
   /post
 
  Ben Scott wrote:
  On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Michael B. Smith 
 mich...@smithcons.com wrote:
  XML is darned wordy.
 
  post
  salutationwordHi/word,/salutation
 
 bodyparagraphsentencewordWhat/wordwordmakes/wordwordyou/wordwordsay/wordwordthat?/word/sentence/paragraph/body
  signatureleader-- /leadernameBen/name /post
 
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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-21 Thread Jason Gurtz
That's about as friendly as generic message size limits that nearly
everyone seems to interpret as file size limits.
(MIME overhead and all being what it is)

Actually, this seems more egregious from a seat of the pants standpoint.
What is the actual description Vipre uses for this size limit feature?
Surely they should mean message size like everyone else and if they
really do mean file size then it should be the native file size.  The
fact that the new formats happen to internally use zip compression should
matter.  What happens to a rar or 7z file that is renamed with a .txt
extension?

You are not supposed to know about renaming .docx to .zip after all.
Well, for the purposes of this discussion anyway...

~JasonG

P.S. Java .jar and .war files are the same in this regard.

 -Original Message-
 From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:40
 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
 Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email
 
 Good morning all!
 
 More an informational post than anything.
 
 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?
 
 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit
was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.
 
 Who'd a thunk it.
 
 
 Cheers,
 Cameron
 
 ---
 To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
 software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist


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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-21 Thread Don Andrews
Many anti-spam systems have a limit on the size of files they scan - including 
those in archives.  Don't know if this is AS or AV but if AS, quarantining or 
rejecting would seem to be an overreaction IMHO.

-Original Message-
From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:21 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

That's about as friendly as generic message size limits that nearly
everyone seems to interpret as file size limits.
(MIME overhead and all being what it is)

Actually, this seems more egregious from a seat of the pants standpoint.
What is the actual description Vipre uses for this size limit feature?
Surely they should mean message size like everyone else and if they
really do mean file size then it should be the native file size.  The
fact that the new formats happen to internally use zip compression should
matter.  What happens to a rar or 7z file that is renamed with a .txt
extension?

You are not supposed to know about renaming .docx to .zip after all.
Well, for the purposes of this discussion anyway...

~JasonG

P.S. Java .jar and .war files are the same in this regard.

 -Original Message-
 From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:40
 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
 Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email
 
 Good morning all!
 
 More an informational post than anything.
 
 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?
 
 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit
was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.
 
 Who'd a thunk it.
 
 
 Cheers,
 Cameron
 
 ---
 To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
 software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist


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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread KevinM
How were you finding the file sizes?

From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:40 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

Good morning all!

More an informational post than anything.

Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx, .docx, 
etc) were compressed files?

Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was set 
to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed. So...Sunbelt 
Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to determine that the 
actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

Who'd a thunk it.


Cheers,
Cameron

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Cameron
Changed the .xlsx extension to .zip and then unzipped it. Amazed me that an
8mb xlsx file went to 54mbs.



On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:41 AM, KevinM kev...@wlkmmas.org wrote:

  How were you finding the file sizes?



 *From:* Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:40 AM
 *To:* MS-Exchange Admin Issues
 *Subject:* Slightly OT: Vipre for Email



 Good morning all!



 More an informational post than anything.



 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?



 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.



 Who'd a thunk it.





 Cheers,

 Cameron

 ---

 To manage subscriptions click here:
 http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Ben Scott
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?

  Probably not just you.  :)

  The OpenOffice/Open Document Format (ODF) formats are the same thing, BTW.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Changed the .xlsx extension to .zip and then unzipped it.

  I have 7-Zip add its Explorer context menu items, which include
Open.  7-Zip will open a great many files which are actually
containers, regardless of extension.  It's very useful for getting
MSIs out of SETUP.EXE files.

 Amazed me that an 8mb xlsx file went to 54mbs.

  The old .DOC, .XLS, etc., formats generally compressed very well,
too.  It would have been nice if Microsoft had started doing this back
when disk space was more precious.  :)

-- Ben

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Micheal Espinola Jr
I'm confused.  So you would bounce .zip files for being too large if/when
uncompressed?  This seems to go against why people commonly compress email
attachments.

--
ME2




On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good morning all!

 More an informational post than anything.

 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?

 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

 Who'd a thunk it.


 Cheers,
 Cameron

 ---
 To manage subscriptions click here:
 http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist


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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Randal, Phil
Because uncompressing highly compressed archive files can be a very
nice/nasty Denial Of Service.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

-- 
Phil Randal | Infrastructure Engineer 
NHS Herefordshire  Herefordshire Council  | Deputy Chief Executive's
Office | I.C.T. Services Division 
Thorn Office Centre, Rotherwas, Hereford, HR2 6JT 
Tel: 01432 260160

 

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 20 October 2010 16:36
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

 

I'm confused.  So you would bounce .zip files for being too large
if/when uncompressed?  This seems to go against why people commonly
compress email attachments.

--
ME2



 

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com
wrote:

Good morning all!

 

More an informational post than anything.

 

Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
.docx, etc) were compressed files?

 

Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit
was set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

 

Who'd a thunk it.

 

 

Cheers,

Cameron

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with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist

 

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Micheal Espinola Jr
Fascinating!  I am surprised I haven't heard of this.  Thanks!

--
ME2




On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Randal, Phil
pran...@herefordshire.gov.ukwrote:

 Because uncompressing highly compressed archive files can be a very
 nice/nasty Denial Of Service.



 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb



 Cheers,



 Phil

 --
 Phil Randal | Infrastructure Engineer
 NHS Herefordshire  Herefordshire Council  | Deputy Chief Executive's
 Office | I.C.T. Services Division
 Thorn Office Centre, Rotherwas, Hereford, HR2 6JT
 Tel: 01432 260160



 *From:* Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* 20 October 2010 16:36

 *To:* MS-Exchange Admin Issues
 *Subject:* Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email



 I'm confused.  So you would bounce .zip files for being too large if/when
 uncompressed?  This seems to go against why people commonly compress email
 attachments.

 --
 ME2



 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good morning all!



 More an informational post than anything.



 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?



 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.



 Who'd a thunk it.





 Cheers,

 Cameron

 ---
 To manage subscriptions click here:
 http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist



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RE: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Michael B. Smith
XML is darned wordy.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:43 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

Changed the .xlsx extension to .zip and then unzipped it. Amazed me that an 8mb 
xlsx file went to 54mbs.



On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:41 AM, KevinM 
kev...@wlkmmas.orgmailto:kev...@wlkmmas.org wrote:
How were you finding the file sizes?

From: Cameron [mailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.commailto:cameron.orl...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:40 AM
To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues
Subject: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

Good morning all!

More an informational post than anything.

Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx, .docx, 
etc) were compressed files?

Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was set 
to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed. So...Sunbelt 
Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to determine that the 
actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

Who'd a thunk it.


Cheers,
Cameron

---

To manage subscriptions click here: 
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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Kurt Buff
Yep.

Knew that.

My Maia Mailguard installation caused a similar problem long ago - it
was quarantining the files because the filetype was zip, even though
the file extension was [doc|ppt|xls]x.

And I'm extremely unhappy about that, because now I've had to let the
filetype of zip through, which is just wrong...

Kurt

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 07:40, Cameron cameron.orl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Good morning all!

 More an informational post than anything.

 Was it just me that didn't know that the new MS Office documents (.xlsx,
 .docx, etc) were compressed files?

 Vipre for Exchange was trapping an 8mb .xlsx file even though the limit was
 set to 50mb and saying that it was over the size when uncompressed.
 So...Sunbelt Tech Support (which in my opinion rocks!) helped me to
 determine that the actual file size was 54mbs..therefore being bounced.

 Who'd a thunk it.


 Cheers,
 Cameron

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Re: Slightly OT: Vipre for Email

2010-10-20 Thread Ben Scott
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Michael B. Smith
mich...@smithcons.com wrote:
 XML is darned wordy.

post
salutationwordHi/word,/salutation
bodyparagraphsentencewordWhat/wordwordmakes/wordwordyou/wordwordsay/wordwordthat?/word/sentence/paragraph/body
signatureleader-- /leadernameBen/name
/post

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