Re: [expert] Defragging
Hmmm... mine wouldn't compile and died with this error: make: *** [display.ext2.o] Error 1 Were there lines before that? That one line alone isn't all too helpful. Also - for the other poster - check reiserfs out for your news spool ;). Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
I'll second that ... I've never gotten a Unix box of any flavor above 7% fragmentation and most of that was log files. But as soon as logrotate Well, given that log files can be fairly large, that more or less makes sense, that there might be some fragmentation. But how would you measure it on modern systems? For instance I seem to recall a util for ext2fs that would tell you how fragmented a file or filesystem was and even some versions of 'mount' would tell you the fragmentation percentage of a given partition). Also because log files are loarge, isn't some of that fragmentation already engrained into the file because of indirect blocks and so forth? (Maybe true for ext2/ext3 - I don't know if even reiserfs or other newer filesystems use those) but for what it's worth, any file of large enough size is going to have extra blocks for pointers and such. Civileme talking about some guy in Alaska who managed to hit some unreal number like 90% fragmentation... but I don't know much more than that.. That's pretty awesome :). But I agree that adding more RAM or having a faster disk is a good thing to do. I would think that adding RAM is going to make more of an impact over other upgrade paths. There might be a way to further optimize a file system, but this is pretty much beyond the ken of what I know how to do. For me Get a Well, there might be ways to do background reshufflings of files in the filesystem dynamically -- if based on usage (i.e., files accessed more recently or more often are the ones that the OS or filesystem pays more attention to). After all, if files aren't accessed all that often, why bother optimizing them at all? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 20:23, David E. Fox wrote: I'll second that ... I've never gotten a Unix box of any flavor above 7% fragmentation and most of that was log files. But as soon as logrotate Well, given that log files can be fairly large, that more or less makes sense, that there might be some fragmentation. But how would you measure it on modern systems? For instance I seem to recall a util for ext2fs that would tell you how fragmented a file or filesystem was and even some versions of 'mount' would tell you the fragmentation percentage of a given partition). Also because log files are loarge, isn't some of that fragmentation already engrained into the file because of indirect blocks and so forth? (Maybe true for ext2/ext3 - I don't know if even reiserfs or other newer filesystems use those) but for what it's worth, any file of large enough size is going to have extra blocks for pointers and such. True enough on reiserfs (don't know on the others.) But the numbers were from memory on ext2 Civileme talking about some guy in Alaska who managed to hit some unreal number like 90% fragmentation... but I don't know much more than that.. That's pretty awesome :). But I agree that adding more RAM or having a faster disk is a good thing to do. I would think that adding RAM is going to make more of an impact over other upgrade paths. Up to a point yes. There might be a way to further optimize a file system, but this is pretty much beyond the ken of what I know how to do. For me Get a Well, there might be ways to do background reshufflings of files in the filesystem dynamically -- if based on usage (i.e., files accessed more recently or more often are the ones that the OS or filesystem pays more attention to). After all, if files aren't accessed all that often, why bother optimizing them at all? I would have agreed hands down on the older slower discs, when the difference between the inside and outside of the disk was so great. But these days I don't think I'd notice the difference. James __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Sunday 02 March 2003 05:57 pm, Mark Weaver wrote: Todd Lyons wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David E. Fox wrote on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 09:55:25PM -0800 : Reiserfs should never be defragged--the elaborate tree structure it sets up is I once heard that fragmentation is impossible in reiserfs. No, not impossible. Things like /var/log/* will always fragment unless there is only one file that ever gets written to. However, the design of the fs and how it accesses both its meta data (ie directories and file entries) and file data will determine the response, especially under heavy io load. but I thought there wasn't any such thing as needing to defrag a linux system? has something changed that I wasn't aware of? Things like the log files, weven if fragmented don't impact performance. Userspace data files still rarely get fragmented at any level that impacts performance, so no defrag necessary. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Sun, 2003-03-02 at 15:28, Greg Meyer wrote: On Sunday 02 March 2003 05:57 pm, Mark Weaver wrote: Todd Lyons wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David E. Fox wrote on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 09:55:25PM -0800 : Reiserfs should never be defragged--the elaborate tree structure it sets up is I once heard that fragmentation is impossible in reiserfs. No, not impossible. Things like /var/log/* will always fragment unless there is only one file that ever gets written to. However, the design of the fs and how it accesses both its meta data (ie directories and file entries) and file data will determine the response, especially under heavy io load. but I thought there wasn't any such thing as needing to defrag a linux system? has something changed that I wasn't aware of? Things like the log files, weven if fragmented don't impact performance. Userspace data files still rarely get fragmented at any level that impacts performance, so no defrag necessary. I'll second that ... I've never gotten a Unix box of any flavor above 7% fragmentation and most of that was log files. But as soon as logrotate ran it dropped back to less than 1%. However I do seem to remember Civileme talking about some guy in Alaska who managed to hit some unreal number like 90% fragmentation... but I don't know much more than that.. There might be a way to further optimize a file system, but this is pretty much beyond the ken of what I know how to do. For me Get a faster / bus /HDD / Ram etc James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David E. Fox wrote on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 09:55:25PM -0800 : Reiserfs should never be defragged--the elaborate tree structure it sets up is I once heard that fragmentation is impossible in reiserfs. No, not impossible. Things like /var/log/* will always fragment unless there is only one file that ever gets written to. However, the design of the fs and how it accesses both its meta data (ie directories and file entries) and file data will determine the response, especially under heavy io load. Blue skies... Todd - -- Todd Lyons -- MandrakeSoft, Inc. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.21pre4-10mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XqL7lp7v05cW2woRAg29AJ9yj3veMpC58P98lDBV4GhkI1Y9DACdGCkt 8g8BaAfOQl4x+c/O2mJMV9A= =opPi -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:25:12 -0800, Dave Laird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good evening, James... On Tuesday 25 February 2003 10:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:41, civileme wrote: there is a utility for defragging ext2 though it is hardly worth the trouble of running. It used to make big performance gains for ext Might you have a link to this utility? It might be handy for running usenet news which, as we all know, is notorious for fragmenting an ext2 file system pretty badly. Dave There's one at http://www.oosoft.de/english/products/oodlinux/index.html It's still in beta, so don't try it on sensitive data (or at the very least do a backup first). -- Sridhar Dhanapalan [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/] Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry penguin charging at them in excess of 100 mph. They'd be a lot more careful about what they say if they had. -- Linus Torvalds pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
[expert] Defragging
there is a utility for defragging ext2 though it is hardly worth the trouble of running. It used to make big performance gains for ext ext3 is like ext2--it keeps fragmentation very low by nature and by design. Reiserfs should never be defragged--the elaborate tree structure it sets up is already basically optimized and you have a choice between space opt (default) and speed opt (notails mount). JFS is equipped with a defragger. It would be the fastest of filesystems if you did not have to count in the time spent defragging. XFS is very fast except when you massively delete files. Want to hazard a guess why? Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:41, civileme wrote: there is a utility for defragging ext2 though it is hardly worth the trouble of running. It used to make big performance gains for ext ext3 is like ext2--it keeps fragmentation very low by nature and by design. Reiserfs should never be defragged--the elaborate tree structure it sets up is already basically optimized and you have a choice between space opt (default) and speed opt (notails mount). JFS is equipped with a defragger. It would be the fastest of filesystems if you did not have to count in the time spent defragging. XFS is very fast except when you massively delete files. Want to hazard a guess why? Civileme Um SGI created it? *evil grin* __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good evening, James... On Tuesday 25 February 2003 10:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:41, civileme wrote: there is a utility for defragging ext2 though it is hardly worth the trouble of running. It used to make big performance gains for ext Might you have a link to this utility? It might be handy for running usenet news which, as we all know, is notorious for fragmenting an ext2 file system pretty badly. Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Usenet News server: news.kharma.net Musicians Calendar and Database access: http://www.kharma.net/calendar.html An automatic random thought For the Minute: I must have slipped a disk -- my pack hurts! Thou hast seen nothing yet. -- Miguel de Cervantes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XF3IaE1ENZP1A28RAqIAAJ9MgiBv+o28ZoGQgIRIgd6Os5KzdQCfTeXL aAUxw89jTDsaCplPERREFtE= =31i4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 22:25, Dave Laird wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good evening, James... On Tuesday 25 February 2003 10:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 14:41, civileme wrote: there is a utility for defragging ext2 though it is hardly worth the trouble of running. It used to make big performance gains for ext Might you have a link to this utility? It might be handy for running usenet news which, as we all know, is notorious for fragmenting an ext2 file system pretty badly. Dave Don't know how I got credit for saying it ... but. I do know the program... defrag http://freshmeat.net/projects/defrag/?topic_id=136 Is a url that should get you to it. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Defragging
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Morning, James... On Tuesday 25 February 2003 11:34 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: Don't know how I got credit for saying it ... but. I do know the program... You had a vaguely guilty look in your eye. 8-) defrag http://freshmeat.net/projects/defrag/?topic_id=136 Is a url that should get you to it. Thanks! It went to work as soon as it came out of the compiler. I'll be curious what it does to the news spool, which is nearly always fragmented quite a bit. Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Usenet News server: news.kharma.net Musicians Calendar and Database access: http://www.kharma.net/calendar.html An automatic random thought For the Minute: There's always free cheese in a mousetrap. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XHNhaE1ENZP1A28RApNfAKCOGxqvHeX+zVdczTu+hV6kF7j4DgCfX0nc qiyo7HSidl5CHYFEx9Jj5Bw= =2FYh -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
