Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Jose M. Sanchez wrote: Heh, The point wasn't taken though. It's sorta silly to try to put the blame on Linux for regressing. Yeah he can run command line Linux in 64 megs (even 32 after installation). If he really wants to do this, he should have been looking for one of the super light distros, instead of LM8.1. Nope, I don't want to run Linux in command line for my users. Sure, KDE is one of the big memory consumer, but there's something else. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Jose Luis Vazquez Gonzalez wrote: When swapping starts is because not all programs fit on main memory (RAM) [deleted] back again in the same problem...) I think you're probably correct in this. The thing is, if you have 64MB and you are running 128 MB in apps simultaneously (all with the same priority) maths say they should be 50% time on disk and 50% on RAM. The problem is there's at most 10 MB in swap. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just a question of curiosity. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Monday 12 November 2001 17:13, you wrote: Oh, OK. Hmmm, sounds like a good open source project. Hey, what about TOP ? Nope Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
|-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Seak, Teng-Fong |Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:56 AM |To: Mandrake mailing-list |Subject: Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain |programme/data resides? | | |Jose M. Sanchez wrote: | |Heh, The point wasn't taken though. | |It's sorta silly to try to put the blame on Linux for regressing. | |Yeah he can run command line Linux in 64 megs (even 32 after |installation). If he really wants to do this, he should have been |looking for one of the super light distros, instead of LM8.1. | | Nope, I don't want to run Linux in command line for my users. | Sure, KDE is one of the big memory consumer, but there's |something else. | | No there isn't, you simply have too little memory for the Libraries and Daemons being employed actively by KDE. Even 128megs causes a lot of swapping. This has held true since 2.0. If you switch to another window manager you can compare performance and swapping. Even with a light WM, 64megs is rather small nowadays. -JMS Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
On Monday 12 November 2001 03:45, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: ltiu wrote: My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. Imagine it... If you want, you could always go back to RH 4.2, or Mandrake 6.4... If you want to run the latest apps, you need to have the hardware to handle it. Just the way it is. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. Imagine it... If you want, you could always go back to RH 4.2, or Mandrake 6.4... If you want to run the latest apps, you need to have the hardware to handle it. Just the way it is. Ummnot really If you want to run a window manager that does everything and has all sorts of bells and whistles then you need the hardware KDE and GNOME are both very memory and CPU intensive as they have their own window managers, sound servers, font control systems, application hooks...well you get the idea. If you want a sleeker resource footprint, try xfce or windowmaker or afterstep Andrew Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
ltiu wrote: My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
ltiu wrote: A couple of more things. on the command line, type: free to see how much memory your Linux box uses. Better yet, you can use a GUI application called: xosview Hope thses helped. Nope, with those commands we can't see in what kind of memory a certain programme is running. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[Fwd: Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?]
Jose M. Sanchez wrote: 64MB? Isn't that the MINIMUM size for a video graphics board nowadays... ;) Yes, but that's for zbuffering or whatever 3D rendering used by 3D chipsets. If you don't do 3D, 64 MB is a waste of money. But well, who can resist Unreal :) ? And those 64MB are on the graphics board, not the motherboard. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Jose M. Sanchez wrote: Eh, I was being facetious, hence the smiley. Sure I know you're facetious, but I'm afraid newbies would take it too seriously and thus acquired wrong knowledge, so I gave more explanations. Fong Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
You have a point. It depends on your WM too. 64MB mem usage was on my desktop with KDE or GNOME. I have a laptop with 20MB RAM running kernel 2.2.19 and X but I use ICEWM and it all fits within 20MB. KDE and GNOME are monsters. My experience. On Monday 12 November 2001 01:45, you wrote: ltiu wrote: My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Oh, OK. Hmmm, sounds like a good open source project. On Monday 12 November 2001 01:46, you wrote: ltiu wrote: A couple of more things. on the command line, type: free to see how much memory your Linux box uses. Better yet, you can use a GUI application called: xosview Hope thses helped. Nope, with those commands we can't see in what kind of memory a certain programme is running. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
At 10:45 AM 11/12/2001 +0100, you wrote: ltiu wrote: My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. We had Mandrake 7.0 for i486 running on 2 486/66's with 8 MB ram. There are, of course, linux's that will run on much less--heck there is even a linux replacement / add on for the PalmOS. And, if I remember correctly, some team got linux running on a wristwatch. Michael -- Michael Viron Registered Linux User #81978 Senior Systems Administration Consultant Web Spinners, University of West Florida Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[Fwd: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?]
-- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT SA -Art is the illusion of spontaneity- ---BeginMessage--- Jose M. Sanchez wrote: 64MB? Isn't that the MINIMUM size for a video graphics board nowadays... ;) | |You say all as if 64M is a lot of RAM. Yes, I must tell you |that X will eat that much RAM for breakfast but so will most |other current OS's running some kind of GUI crap | Jose, such trenchent wit... I love it, and, yes, in today's world of graphic intensive games and apps, you need at least that amount on the video card alone. -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT SA -Art is the illusion of spontaneity- ---End Message--- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Your milaege will vary. My desktop computer has 448MB RAM now and I do not need or even have a swap partition anymore. In fact, I've never used up all the RAM with whatever I'm doing. On Monday 12 November 2001 08:19, you wrote: At 10:45 AM 11/12/2001 +0100, you wrote: ltiu wrote: My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. I don't know if what you say is true, and if it is, there's really a regression in Linux performance. Before, it was possible to run Linux in a 16MB machine. Kernel using less than 4MB and X less than 4MB too. I can't imagine that kernel and X alone could use up to 64MB. We had Mandrake 7.0 for i486 running on 2 486/66's with 8 MB ram. There are, of course, linux's that will run on much less--heck there is even a linux replacement / add on for the PalmOS. And, if I remember correctly, some team got linux running on a wristwatch. Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
On Monday 12 November 2001 17:13, you wrote: Oh, OK. Hmmm, sounds like a good open source project. Hey, what about TOP ? Good hunting Harm Bathoorn Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
Heh, The point wasn't taken though. It's sorta silly to try to put the blame on Linux for regressing. Yeah he can run command line Linux in 64 megs (even 32 after installation). If he really wants to do this, he should have been looking for one of the super light distros, instead of LM8.1. BTW: I had to look up trenchant. Good word. :) -JMS |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J. Craig Woods |Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:09 AM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain |programme/data resides? | | |Jose M. Sanchez wrote: | | 64MB? | | Isn't that the MINIMUM size for a video graphics board nowadays... ;) | | | | |You say all as if 64M is a lot of RAM. Yes, I must tell |you that X | |will eat that much RAM for breakfast but so will most other current | |OS's running some kind of GUI crap | | | |Jose, such trenchent wit... | |I love it, and, yes, in today's world of graphic intensive |games and apps, you need at least that amount on the video card alone. | |-- |J. Craig Woods |UNIX/NT SA | |-Art is the illusion of spontaneity- | Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
When swapping starts is because not all programs fit on main memory (RAM) so they are going and comming back from seconday memory (disk) all the time, as their turn to get executed comes and goes. Process memory mapping WILL change WHILE you are looking at it, a bit like trying to measure the position and speed of the electron. I guess that the kernel could say 'position 1h of the virtual memory is now mapped into RAM at x or disk at block y, but that may change so even while you are looking at it. For example, when you do the system call to ask the kernel an kernel interruption occurs and changes memory mapping of the process you are looking at, it goes to RAM, suddenly while you are looking at that info another interruption puts it back on disk, === you are looking at a process sleeping on disk while you think its on RAM cause the monitor program last saw it there whats the point? (unless, of course, the monitor gets updated everytime a change is done... but updating may produce more changes, another interrupt may occur... and back again in the same problem...) The thing is, if you have 64MB and you are running 128 MB in apps simultaneously (all with the same priority) maths say they should be 50% time on disk and 50% on RAM. Correct me if I said something wrong. Jose El Lunes 12 Noviembre 2001 13:11, Seak, Teng-Fong escribió: Jose M. Sanchez wrote: Eh, I was being facetious, hence the smiley. Sure I know you're facetious, but I'm afraid newbies would take it too seriously and thus acquired wrong knowledge, so I gave more explanations. Fong Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
My experience: 64 MB is minimum for Linux running X (with nothing else). Meaning, it will use up 64MB with kernel and X(KDE or GNOME) alone. If you use a lighter window manager, maybe your 64MB will go further. If you start other programs, like say Netscape or Koffice or a couple of bash x-terminal shells, then your machine will start swapping. Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: A question of curiosity: how to know in what memory (physical or virtual) a programme's code and its data/stack resides? Why do I ask such a question? Sometimes when I quit a programme, the hard disk is very active for quite a while. It's just like something is read/written to it while the programme is quitting. But if the programme resides totally in physical memory, there shouldn't be such activity. The PC has got 64 MB. Don't tell me Linux kernel and X use up all physical memory! Fong Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
A couple of more things. on the command line, type: free to see how much memory your Linux box uses. Better yet, you can use a GUI application called: xosview Hope thses helped. Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: A question of curiosity: how to know in what memory (physical or virtual) a programme's code and its data/stack resides? Why do I ask such a question? Sometimes when I quit a programme, the hard disk is very active for quite a while. It's just like something is read/written to it while the programme is quitting. But if the programme resides totally in physical memory, there shouldn't be such activity. The PC has got 64 MB. Don't tell me Linux kernel and X use up all physical memory! Fong Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
64MB? Isn't that the MINIMUM size for a video graphics board nowadays... ;) I |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J. Craig Woods |Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:37 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain |programme/data resides? | | | | Fong | | |You say all as if 64M is a lot of RAM. Yes, I must tell you |that X will eat that much RAM for breakfast but so will most |other current OS's running some kind of GUI crap | |-- |J. Craig Woods |UNIX/NT SA | |-Art is the illusion of spontaneity- | | Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] How to know in what memory a certain programme/data resides?
You have a point. On Sunday 11 November 2001 19:52, Jose M. Sanchez wrote: 64MB? Isn't that the MINIMUM size for a video graphics board nowadays... ;) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
